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Maya Forstater: Woman wins tribunal appeal over transgender tweet

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Tilden Katz


    Well, I'm fine with most medical procedures being carried out by males or females, even intimate ones. Most. However there was one time I asked for the male present to leave. And I'll do so again if I need to, however that male might present. Any offence taken is not my problem. I'd be the one in a vulnerable position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    circadian wrote: »
    Is that right aye? Let's take this one point by point then.
    • How would you feel if your vulnerable female relative was forced to share her prison cell with a fully intact biological male? And when the door was locked she was truly alone?
      I'd have more issue with a vulnerable person being forced to share a prison cell with anyone if they have requirements to the contrary. Men aren't the only dangerous people in prison, I'm sure you know that but sure throw in your "biologically intact male" ****e as you see fit.
      How did it work out for those female prisoners who were going to be sharing with the convicted rapist that suddenly saw themselves as female.
    • How would you feel if your daughters athletic scholarship was robbed off her by a beta-male who calls himself female?
      My daughter plays mixed gender football and is better than a lot of the boys. As for allowing transgender competition in your example. I'm undecided as there ihasn't been enough research on the subject. I certainly don't support the "men are naturally stronger and better than women at sport" talking point but I am open to correction through scientific study.


    Well then you don't know a lot about sport, and even less about anatomy and most especially physiology.
    On average men/males are physically stronger than women/females, it is not even open for debate.
    And a lot of that has to do with development through puberty.
    Only the disingenuous and those of a certain mindset ever argue that a transwoman who has gone through male puberty is no different to a biological woman.

    There is a reason the men's 100m record is faster then the womens 100m.
    There is a reason no female golfer is competing in the mens tour.
    There is reason no female is playing mens rugby.
    etc, etc, etc.

    Notice I never once mentioned skill.
    That is a different discussion entirely.
    Skill is not determined by sex.

    Also if your daughter is playing mixed gender football then there is a very good chance she is at most in her teens and one can readily see girls up to teenage years that are often physically bigger than boys of a similar age.
    In fact my sons team were trounced by girls team that were just a year older.
    The girls were bigger and more developed.

    But by the time she reaches adulthood the guys will have developed a lot more physically.
    Of course there will always be outliers who will be naturally bigger or smaller than the norm.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    PreparationH do not post in this thread again


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    I think JK Rowling is owed an apology.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think JK Rowling is owed an apology.

    From the people who repeatedly threatened to “rape her with my girl dick” and so on?

    I’d say that’s highly unlikely!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,012 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    jmayo wrote: »
    There is a reason the men's 100m record is faster then the womens 100m.
    There is a reason no female golfer is competing in the mens tour.
    There is reason no female is playing mens rugby.
    etc, etc, etc.

    Notice I never once mentioned skill.
    That is a different discussion entirely.
    Skill is not determined by sex.

    Also if your daughter is playing mixed gender football then there is a very good chance she is at most in her teens and one can readily see girls up to teenage years that are often physically bigger than boys of a similar age.
    In fact my sons team were trounced by girls team that were just a year older.
    The girls were bigger and more developed.

    But by the time she reaches adulthood the guys will have developed a lot more physically.
    Of course there will always be outliers who will be naturally bigger or smaller than the norm.

    I agree with this. I disagree with the idea of posing an argument as a scare tactic (how would you feel if etc.). There will be issues along the way, maybe court rulings, furious alt-right youtubers talking about a Totalitarian Marxist future but like many things we will eventually work it out and it likely won't match the visions of the future held by the extremists on either side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,389 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    mewso wrote: »
    I agree with this. I disagree with the idea of posing an argument as a scare tactic (how would you feel if etc.). There will be issues along the way, maybe court rulings, furious alt-right youtubers talking about a Totalitarian Marxist future but like many things we will eventually work it out and it likely won't match the visions of the future held by the extremists on either side.

    It's true that there can be hysteria on both sides, but it seems to me that the biggest problem here is that one side wants to shut down anything that is less than complete agreement with them, on the grounds that it's as bad as anti semitism (as the CEO of Stonewall said recently).

    Changing the law to redefine woman as something new is a change that needs to be discussed, not enforced from above, and that's why Maya Forstater's win on appeal is so important, because it means that women who have concerns about their own issues are equally entitled to put them forward without being shut down and even banned from social media.

    Saying that it's wrong to want to shut down disagreement from one side is not furious alt-right ranting about marxism. But for a while that's where we've been headed. Hopefully, since the judgment refered to EU law as well, there will also be an effect in Ireland too, and Amnesty or the NWCI will no longer get away with calling for gender critical women to be refused political representation.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    According to some its those who believe in biological science who are the brain washed ones, especially those watching "alt right" Roe Rogan podcasts?

    Maybe take a step back and reevaluate things?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    circadian wrote: »
    While I don't think she should have been punished for voicing her opinion (as long as it wasn't incendiary, racist etc) I don't understand why people are so worried about what gender someone else identifies as. I simply do not understand why people are so concerned with what someone else does in their own life that has absolutely no bearing on their own
    I don't agree with much of the infractioned post that responded to this, as there are numerous implications in it that transwomen are inherently predatory.

    I agree also that if a person is trans, that's their business. All the best to them - it's not easy.

    The issue though is not so much people being transgender but certain policy around language and discourse. E.g. someone merely stating that biological sex is not immutable - this is actually seen as bigotry. Bonkers. Language redefining "woman" - like "birthing people" and "front hole" in relation to female genitalia. Actual erasure of terms used in relation to biological females. As a woman I find this utterly despicable. And it IS women who are mostly bearing the brunt of it. By the way, these are not just right-wing myths - they're recent developments (Biden and a health company's official website).

    It is also unfair if those born male are competing with females in sport. I just don't see how there could be an argument against this?

    The issue with prisons, toilets and changing rooms is not all transwomen but predators who often (usually) aren't trans, they just say they are, and who take advantage. I get this is hurtful for decent transwomen so why not another space for transwomen?


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    According to some its those who believe in biological science who are the brain washed ones, especially those watching "alt right" Roe Rogan podcasts?

    Maybe take a step back and reevaluate things?
    There was a time not too long ago when I would have said "just let transwomen call themselves women - gender is ambiguous, what's the harm".

    And I still don't care if individual transwomen call themselves women - I'll agree they are at an informal level, and gender is ambiguous.

    But gender is not sex, and when official language doesn't distinguish, when this is entering policy, when it's considered hateful not to deny biology, that's a whole other matter. It affects women and respect should be two-way.

    Yes transphobes will agree with what I'm saying, but I don't agree with their transphobia.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lurleen wrote: »
    I
    It is also unfair if those born male are competing with females in sport. I just don't see how there could be an argument against this?

    Usually the argument evolves around if they trained harder they'd be able to compete. Or if given more resources they'd be able to complete. Both hor****e but they you are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 42 Hadron Collider


    A very welcome ruling, and a major blow against cancel culture.

    For too long, Twitter mobs have been able to witch-hunt people out of their jobs and careers for holding "problematic" opinions.

    If people don't have to remain silent about their beliefs for fear of losing their jobs, I think we'll have more people speak up and see a lot more robust debate.


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