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The delusions of Mary McAleese

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    Are you serious? And only now she is discovering human rights problems concerning her Abrahamic death cult religion? Has she read the bible and the codex of human rights brutality within it?

    She’s certainly trying to make a change from within it would appear.

    I’m not religious, I despise the church. But if someone wants to mix things up within the church that’s good with me.


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    #63
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hmm, well because maybe Ireland has a dark history of being oppressed, controlled and abused by the Catholic Church.

    That’s just one possibility I guess.

    There’s Also the the fact she is a Catholic academic and author and holds a licentiate and doctorate in Canon law.

    I realise that but speaking in a country that is pushing towards multiculturalism I think she's shirking her responsibilities by condemning 1 and not them all, does she only care about catholic gays and let the muslim guy afraid to come out as gay just suck it up because he's in Ireland, but best not say anything about any other religion in case they take offence, play it safe and stick with insulting Catholics and what their church has believed for centuries.
    It's like this is all a big surprise to everyone and Mary has finally broken the shackles of oppression and given the people of Ireland a voice, sorry Mary but you'll have to speak out against them all and don't mind picking an easy scapegoat


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    I realise that but speaking in a country that is pushing towards multiculturalism I think she's shirking her responsibilities by condemning 1 and not them all, does she only care about catholic gays and let the muslim guy afraid to come out as gay just suck it up because he's in Ireland, but best not say anything about any other religion in case they take offence, play it safe and stick with insulting Catholics and what their church has believed for centuries.
    It's like this is all a big surprise to everyone and Mary has finally broken the shackles of oppression and given the people of Ireland a voice, sorry Mary but you'll have to speak out against them all and don't mind picking an easy scapegoat

    I understand where you are coming from. But this will take an army of voices, not just one. Mary is doing her bit, and biting where she can do the most damage.


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    #65
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,675 ✭✭✭buried


    Deleted User wrote: »
    She’s certainly trying to make a change from within it would appear.

    I’m not religious, I despise the church. But if someone wants to mix things up within the church that’s good with me.

    If she is really concerned with human rights on the scale that she proclaims, the very minute she read the First part of the bible she should have ran out the door, never mind reaching for licentiate and doctorate in Canon law. She's talking grick.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #66
    Darr_Foot
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Darr_Foot


    Mary is annoying she acts as if she is the one who is saying all this stuff for the First time.

    She appears to be only criticising the church since she found out her son is Gay.

    She got her daughter married in the vatican ...and her husband did a report on the mother and baby homes that appeared to say all was ok ?

    You could say the criticism from a Church insider hurts them more but as such a highly educated women to only ask these questions now , and she has such a churchy sanctimonious sense about herself.

    She was happy to use the FF catholic vote to get into the aras.

    I wish Mary would go away.

    The church as we used to know it is dying a death anyway and no harm.


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Darr_Foot wrote: »
    Mary is annoying she acts as if she is the one who is saying all this stuff for the First time.

    She appears to be only criticising the church since she found out her son is Gay.

    She got her daughter married in the vatican ...and her husband did a report on the mother and baby homes that appeared to say all was ok ?

    You could say the criticism from a Church insider hurts them more but as such a highly educated women to only ask these questions now , and she has such a churchy sanctimonious sense about herself.

    She was happy to use the FF catholic vote to get into the aras.

    I wish Mary would go away.

    The church as we used to know it is dying a death anyway and no harm.

    People grow and change, doesn’t mean they are hypocrites


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    #68
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    I realise that but speaking in a country that is pushing towards multiculturalism I think she's shirking her responsibilities by condemning 1 and not them all, does she only care about catholic gays and let the muslim guy afraid to come out as gay just suck it up because he's in Ireland, but best not say anything about any other religion in case they take offence, play it safe and stick with insulting Catholics and what their church has believed for centuries.
    It's like this is all a big surprise to everyone and Mary has finally broken the shackles of oppression and given the people of Ireland a voice, sorry Mary but you'll have to speak out against them all and don't mind picking an easy scapegoat




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    #69
    farmerval
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭farmerval


    Reading her memoir from last year, Mary McAleese was an extremely committed catholic and very involved in the church and church organisations. The fact that at least one of her brother's had been abused by someone in the church seemed to shake her views.
    Presumably the fact that her son is gay is a big influence in her current criticism of the church and it's attitude to gay people.
    As for the casual insults on this thread toward Mary McAleese I assume those making them have had much more distinguished lives than the person they are criticizing. Reading her memoir her involvement across so many organisations that promoted cross community initiatives and peace on our Island is a credit to her. The strange thing on this thread is very few seem to disagree with her, many seem to agree with her yet lots of people are making digs at her because why???? Is she not woke enough???
    Should she have criticised the royal family for being racist???
    She is shining a light on a bigoted organisation that should be held to account. Where is the problem. Why the animosity??


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    #70
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,675 ✭✭✭buried


    farmerval wrote: »
    Reading her memoir from last year, Mary McAleese was an extremely committed catholic and very involved in the church and church organisations. The fact that at least one of her brother's had been abused by someone in the church seemed to shake her views.
    Presumably the fact that her son is gay is a big influence in her current criticism of the church and it's attitude to gay people.
    As for the casual insults on this thread toward Mary McAleese I assume those making them have had much more distinguished lives than the person they are criticizing. Reading her memoir her involvement across so many organisations that promoted cross community initiatives and peace on our Island is a credit to her. The strange thing on this thread is very few seem to disagree with her, many seem to agree with her yet lots of people are making digs at her because why???? Is she not woke enough???
    Should she have criticised the royal family for being racist???
    She is shining a light on a bigoted organisation that should be held to account. Where is the problem. Why the animosity??

    Look she should just leave the cult if the cult doesn't sit with her views. Easy. But my suspicion is that she isn't being genuine, she proclaims she cares so much for 'human rights' yet she has had no problem being heavily indoctrinated to a horrendous cult when it suited her, a cult whose actual 'holy' tenets and its 'word of god' have about as much respect for human rights as Stalin or Mao did.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #71
    BingCrosbee
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭BingCrosbee


    Mary is sticking up for her gay son, that’s all. I am a regular mass attendee and a lot of the catholic doctrine is bo..ux. The new Archbishop of Dublin I remember well from his days ion Mullingar and a good candidate to empty the church of followers... a prize boll...is. Go easy on her, she’s not a bad soul.


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    #72
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Tork


    Darr_Foot wrote: »
    Mary is annoying she acts as if she is the one who is saying all this stuff for the First time.

    She appears to be only criticising the church since she found out her son is Gay.

    She got her daughter married in the vatican ...and her husband did a report on the mother and baby homes that appeared to say all was ok ?

    You could say the criticism from a Church insider hurts them more but as such a highly educated women to only ask these questions now , and she has such a churchy sanctimonious sense about herself.

    She was happy to use the FF catholic vote to get into the aras.

    I wish Mary would go away.

    The church as we used to know it is dying a death anyway and no harm.

    That's a very long post for somebody who just joined boards tonight...


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    #73
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,026 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    she is probably launching a book soon.

    one thing i noticed about the LLS last year....every guest was promoting a book.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Sure if she doesn't agree with what they are saying she can leave because they aren't going to change because she starts whinging about some rule or other they have.

    She's part of this new movement of anti-catholic, pro-abortion, pro-divorce movement. Basically, these lunatics don't want any more Irish families, but they want mass inward immigration. Backed by the state broadcaster


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    #75
    Darr_Foot
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Darr_Foot


    You think i am a secret agent ? i came to talk soccer but Mary gets on me tits.. she does it with the same sanctimoniousness of a mother superior

    I could be with the IONA institute or opus dei or the kinghts of columbanus .....but none of them would have me ....please dont throw me out of here.


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    #76
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Deleted User wrote: »
    She's part of this new movement of anti-catholic, pro-abortion, pro-divorce movement. Basically, these lunatics don't want any more Irish families, but they want mass inward immigration. Backed by the state broadcaster

    You really got it all off your chest there and a slap at RTE going out the door!


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    #77
    jacksonsarm
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭jacksonsarm


    I've a friend who is gay and is heavily involved in his church. He is part of a group that is trying to get the church to change. I know he probably feels a draw to the community or something but I don't get why you'd spend your time trying to reform a moribund institution that is openly hostile to you.

    To me it's the equivalent of going to a restaraunt where you know the waiter hates you, is probably spitting in your food and you respond by tipping him better in the hope he that he'll change.


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    #78
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    I realise that but speaking in a country that is pushing towards multiculturalism I think she's shirking her responsibilities by condemning 1 and not them all, does she only care about catholic gays and let the muslim guy afraid to come out as gay just suck it up because he's in Ireland, but best not say anything about any other religion in case they take offence, play it safe and stick with insulting Catholics and what their church has believed for centuries.
    It's like this is all a big surprise to everyone and Mary has finally broken the shackles of oppression and given the people of Ireland a voice, sorry Mary but you'll have to speak out against them all and don't mind picking an easy scapegoat

    Multicultruism is a ton of horse manure. We have a set of laws and social norms. Follow them or go elsewhere. But you are right in the sense that the Muslim religion is no better on gay rights.
    Her delusions are that she thinks anything is going to change. Rome is full of homophobics and many of them are gay clerics. While the west has liberalised there are vast parts of the world where its very hostile and the Catholic Church can't just follow the Europeans.
    Thus Mary should leave the church or Just accept that the church has several doctrines that are archaic.
    She would be better advised spending her time on fighting for gays in other areas.


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    #79
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    jacksonsarm wrote: »
    I've a friend who is gay and is heavily involved in his church. He is part of a group that is trying to get the church to change. I know he probably feels a draw to the community or something but I don't get why you'd spend your time trying to reform a moribund institution that is openly hostile to you.

    To me it's the equivalent of going to a restaraunt where you know the waiter hates you, is probably spitting in your food and you respond by tipping him better in the hope he that he'll change.

    I think you are stretching the metaphor too much. Many openly gay people go to church and nobody says anything. It depends on the priest. Many priests have no issue with gay people in their church. Most heterosexuals gave up following church teaching on sex decades ago.
    There are very few priests ranting about gay sex from the altar.


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    #80
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    breezy1985 wrote: »

    The bould Dara is lying though his teeth, he has a whole routine about aspects of the Catholic mass that Brits would not have a notion about and yet they get the joke

    the reason he doesnt do jokes about Muslims is to do with fear of his head being seperated from the rest of his person, same as all the other comedians :D


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    #81
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    There is a very interesting book on the church and homosexuality.
    Inside the closet by fredrick... I can't think of his last name but he alleges that many cardinals and clerics in the Vatican are gay but are also homophobic publicly. That the pope is trying to liberalise the church but that he is hindered by the sex scandals. Who is hung out to dry is often determined by which side of this war you are on

    I do feel it for gay Catholics who feel excluded from the church but id say many priests are not asking a huge amount of questions about the sex lives of their parishioners.
    Though im sure those who want a simple blessing feel aggrieved.
    Where I have a real worry for gay people is in parts of the world where there is little tolerance and where the church is much more influential.
    Though as pointed out homophobia is not exclusively a Catholic trait.
    No pope for the next 50 years is going to come out and say gay sex is ok
    Nor are they going to say that pre martial sex or condoms are OK either.


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    #82
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Bambi wrote: »
    The bould Dara is lying though his teeth, he has a whole routine about aspects of the Catholic mass that Brits would not have a notion about and yet they get the joke

    the reason he doesnt do jokes about Muslims is to do with fear of his head being seperated from the rest of his person, same as all the other comedians :D

    It's like the joke
    What do you do before making a Muslim joke?
    Look behind you.


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    #83
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,800 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    BingCrosbee wrote: »
    Mary is sticking up for her gay son, that’s all. .

    No. Thats absolute nonsense.

    Mary stood up for gay and bi men in the 1970s long before her son was born. Mary cofounded the campaign for homosexual reform in 1975 with David Norris. Mary has been a consistent and long term advocate for rights of all LGBT people.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #84
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Annasopra wrote: »
    No. Thats absolute nonsense.

    Mary stood up for gay and bi men in the 1970s long before her son was born. Mary cofounded the campaign for homosexual reform in 1975 with David Norris. Mary has been a consistent and long term advocate for rights of all LGBT people.

    Thank you for bringing it to my attention about her efforts in the 1970s. Though its a shame she didn't speak out more on this issue as president.
    Anyway im no longer going to look at RTE as its news coverage is staid and they have a fascination with ex rte people like mary and celebrities.


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    #85
    redbedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭redbedhead


    I don't think it's hard to search Mary McAleese bio online and see what interest she has in commenting on the CC.
    "She is a Catholic academic and author and holds a licentiate and doctorate in Canon law."
    What kind of criteria does someone need to be qualified to talk about something publicly? I'm sure she has lots of interesting views, but it just happens this one gets the headlines. And it was in response to a public pronouncement from The Vatican.


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    #86
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    redbedhead wrote: »
    I don't think it's hard to search Mary McAleese bio online and see what interest she has in commenting on the CC.
    "She is a Catholic academic and author and holds a licentiate and doctorate in Canon law."
    What kind of criteria does someone need to be qualified to talk about something publicly? I'm sure she has lots of interesting views, but it just happens this one gets the headlines. And it was in response to a public pronouncement from The Vatican.

    How many Canon lawyers are there in Ireland?? She is entitled to speak on it but delusional to think anybody is seriously listening. It's also a bit of church baiting on behalf of RTE?? Does this really deserve a headline. Rte doing SFA to research pieces about the effect of lockdown on business owners etc but they reach for a bit of church baiting at a drop of a hat. They are probably lining her up for a new show-Mary vs the church. God help us!


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    How many Canon lawyers are there in Ireland?? She is entitled to speak on it but delusional to think anybody is seriously listening. It's also a bit of church baiting on behalf of RTE. Does this really deserve a headline. Rte doing SFA to research pieces about the effect of lockdown on business owners etc but they reach for a bit of church baiting at a drop of a hat. They are probably lining her up for a new show-Mary vs the church. God help us!

    She is definitely qualified to talk on the subject, but she’s letting personal family circumstances cloud her judgement.


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    #88
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.
    Though I'd accept your point about her timing.
    We see the same nonsense in the Irish Times. The social battles are over but they are still fighting.
    That's when they are not constantly lecturing white men. Or any man I suppose
    'The poor white man' trope raises its head only 5 posts in.


    Christ this absurd victimhood complex is everywhere.


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    #89
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    She is delusional because she does not know church politics and she doesn't know pope Francis. He would not have got the top job without being "sound" on doctrine.
    Big ****ing deal she has a qualification that God knows how many people have in Ireland.
    By reading her Canon law she must know there is no real hope of change in the church on this issue.
    She is pure and simple an ego maniac who somehow believes she is changing things or that she is giving succour to gay people. She ain't


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    #90
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    If she had guts she'd leave the church and found her own one.
    Let's get real. Anybody reading the history of the church knows that popes are not always inspired by God and that its been very corrupt at certain stages including over child abuse. So why is she taking these peoples words seriously?.
    Thus a lot of its doctrines don't make sense.
    Most Catholics in Ireland are a la carte.


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    #91
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    jacksonsarm wrote: »
    I've a friend who is gay and is heavily involved in his church. He is part of a group that is trying to get the church to change. I know he probably feels a draw to the community or something but I don't get why you'd spend your time trying to reform a moribund institution that is openly hostile to you.

    To me it's the equivalent of going to a restaraunt where you know the waiter hates you, is probably spitting in your food and you respond by tipping him better in the hope he that he'll change.

    Exactly, or going to a vegan restaurant and demanding fillet steak, makes no sense to me either. Do these people want to impose their will on others instead of maybe starting their own break away churches?


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