The delusions of Mary McAleese

Bobtheman

Seems Mary can't keep her mouth shut about gays and the church. Never said a word about it in 14 years as president but now thinks the Church is listening to her.
I regard myself as pro Church and its attitude as terrible towards gays. However you are pissing in the wind thinking the church would listen to a has been Irish politician.
On this matter it would not even listen to the US president who has real power.
The Church will eventually see sense in a couple of centuries.
What annoys me is that Mary gets coverage on RTE who love to church bait and her silence during her presidency.
Just realised I misspelled her name in the title.

Jim2007

I know lockdown is hard, but obsessing about Mary McAleese is not health.

TomTomTim

Agreed. Anytime I see her in the media she's attacking the CC, which is something I'm certainly not offended by. At the same time though, I do find it pathetic, as she's attacking them at their weakest, which says a lot about her. It's easy to fight a monster when the monster is all but dead.

AndrewJRenko

TomTomTim wrote: »

Agreed. Anytime I see her in the media she's attacking the CC, .

You didn't see her series on RTE walking the hills with various heads, Leo, lovely girl Amy and others, talking broadly about spirituality and not attacking the CC at all?

Bobtheman

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.
Though I'd accept your point about her timing.
We see the same nonsense in the Irish Times. The social battles are over but they are still fighting.
That's when they are not constantly lecturing white men. Or any man I suppose

Bobtheman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You didn't see her series on RTE walking the hills with various heads, Leo, lovely girl Amy and others, talking broadly about spirituality and not attacking the CC at all?

What ****ing audience would watch that ****?
I'm in favour of public broadcasting but jesus that would make me think we should burn rte to the ground.

keano_afc

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Faugheen

keano_afc wrote: »

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Maybe for the Church to move on with the times and to stop living in the 1500s.

The Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic institution. F*ck ‘em.

AndrewJRenko

Bobtheman wrote: »

What ****ing audience would watch that ****?
I'm in favour of public broadcasting but jesus that would make me think we should burn rte to the ground.

I enjoyed the few of them that I saw. I'm a card carrying atheist, but hearing others talk about their spirituality is interesting for me.

keano_afc

Faugheen wrote: »

Maybe for the Church to move on with the times and to stop living in the 1500s.

The Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic institution. F*ck ‘em.

But they're not going to change. Don't like it? Fine, don't join it. Move on and find another hobby.

Donald Trump

Mary McCheese

berocca2016

To be noted and noting that I am an avid homosexual, it is not the job of the Irish president to express a political opinion, therefore was limited in what she could say while in the role, now she's out of it she can say what she wants?

I don't really see what your issue with her debating articulately about the Catholic Church ?

Bubbaclaus

keano_afc wrote: »

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Yup. The solution is not asking for the CC to change its ways, its not going to happen in any meaningful or sincere way. The solution is to just remove any of its influence from people that don't want anything to do with it.

partyguinness

Bobtheman wrote: »

Seems Mary can't keep her mouth shut about gays and the church. Never said a word about it in 14 years as president but now thinks the Church is listening to her.
I regard myself as pro Church and its attitude as terrible towards gays. However you are pissing in the wind thinking the church would listen to a has been Irish politician.
On this matter it would not even listen to the US president who has real power.
The Church will eventually see sense in a couple of centuries.
What annoys me is that Mary gets coverage on RTE who love to church bait and her silence during her presidency.
Just realised I misspelled her name in the title.

She said nothing for 14 years as President exactly because she was President.

I am sure she does not expect the Church to listen her. She is only a woman but still her freedom now allows her to express her views plus she is also a committed Catholic. It may well be that she is happy to comment because she knows the CC will not do anything.

"CC follows Catholic doctrine in new SHOCK"

The positon of the Catholic Church in the US is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in Ireland.

E mac

Anyone making the Catholic Church accountable for their past crimes is alright by me.

partyguinness

Bobtheman wrote: »

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.

As long as there is poverty and deprivation in the world the CC will be fine. Always a new market emerging somewhere.

TheValeyard

I thought she was doing a lot of this to help her son in politics?

riffmongous

The Catholic Church can change its doctrine though. Therefore there's no harm in it

Coillte_Bhoy

Bobtheman wrote: »

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.
Though I'd accept your point about her timing.
We see the same nonsense in the Irish Times. The social battles are over but they are still fighting.
That's when they are not constantly lecturing white men. Or any man I suppose

few battles left, to drive them completely out of Health and education for a start

partyguinness

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

few battles left, to drive them completely out of Health and education for a start

I read a very good Fintan O'Toole article several years ago about how the CC successfully lobbied the British during the 19th C to essentially give the CC sole control over education and health. The British were not that bothered.

It shattered the notion I grew up with that somehow the CC came in to save Ireland. This notion that only for the CC the Irish would have had no education or healthcare. Quite the opposite- Ireland was a breeding ground. The CC swooped in like a vulture post famine when the country was on its knees.

The CC was solely responsble for segregating education in this country all for its pure self serving machine.

Bobtheman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I enjoyed the few of them that I saw. I'm a card carrying atheist, but hearing others talk about their spirituality is interesting for me.

Especially when not only are you paying for the program but also the salaries and pensions of all the main guests!

Faugheen

keano_afc wrote: »

But they're not going to change. Don't like it? Fine, don't join it. Move on and find another hobby.

And accept a homophobic, misogynistic institution without any issue?

Nah, I’ll keep pointing it out, thanks.

Are you telling me I can’t criticise things? Aren’t you one of those free speech brigaders?

Bobtheman

partyguinness wrote: »

I read a very good Fintan O'Toole article several years ago about how the CC successfully lobbied the British during the 19th C to essentially give the CC sole control over education and health. The British were not that bothered.

It shattered the notion I grew up with that somehow the CC came in to save Ireland. This notion that only for the CC the Irish would have had no education or healthcare. Quite the opposite- Ireland was a breeding ground. The CC swooped in like a vulture post famine when the country was on its knees.

The CC was solely responsble for segregating education in this country all for its pure self serving machine.

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Faugheen

Bobtheman wrote: »

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Funded a lot of mother and baby homes and schools too where they took advantage of vulnerable people and tried to cover it up.

I’m sorry that it upsets you that the institution is warped.

McGinniesta

What I could never understand is why any gay person would want to be a member of a religion that clearly doesn't agree with how they live their lives.

McGinniesta

E mac wrote: »

Anyone making the Catholic Church accountable for their past crimes is alright by me.

She hasn't made them accountable for anything.

She's been grumbling about it for years and has had absolutely zero effect.

partyguinness

Bobtheman wrote: »

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Well, of course it is the simplistic version to paint the overall picture. It is a Boards post and not meant to be a comprehensive treatsie.

The po faced Tooler has impeccable creditentials and his analysis historical is sound (a bit too depressing sometimes granted) but I can understand why he would get under your skin what with his pesky historical analysis of Church related matters...;)

Why would you say that the Church based system is more efficent than the pure State system? I am not disagreeing with you as such just curious as a matter of interest.

Dyr

berocca2016 wrote: »

To be noted and noting that I am an avid homosexual, it is not the job of the Irish president to express a political opinion, therefore was limited in what she could say while in the role, now she's out of it she can say what she wants?

I don't really see what your issue with her debating articulately about the Catholic Church ?

Limited in what she could say? Give over, Being President never stopped Robbo, Maccers or the current twerp from spouting whatever guff they wanted

partyguinness

Bambi wrote: »

Limited in what she could say? Give over, Being President never stopped Robbo, Maccers or the current twerp from spouting whatever guff they wanted

Why the need for the disrespectful abbreviations/insults?

Bobtheman

Faugheen wrote: »

Funded a lot of mother and baby homes and schools too where they took advantage of vulnerable people and tried to cover it up.

I’m sorry that it upsets you that the institution is warped.

I accept fully its flaws. Let's keep things in perspective. Treating unwed mothers as pariah was common throughout Europe until probably the 1950s or later. We just continued on a lot longer than others.
Plus adoption scandals are quite common throughout the world. Look at Spain.
Families put their daughters out on the street throughout Europe. Where did you want these women to go?? It was patriarchy at its worst.
You'd be quite a simple thinker if you blamed that entirely on the church.. Sex before marriage really wasn't accepted in Europe until the 1960s.
Even that rebel John lennon had to marry Cynthia when he knocked her up.

lalababa

I'm always amazed by the backlash McCalese gets for saying that RCC doctrine is discriminatory to women & gays. Which it is..( Basically says women & gays are inherently evil and of lesser importance than men)
But shur begawd you can't bate a good mass shur don't be thinking too much fer yerself .....who do you think you are atall at all at all.

partyguinness

Faugheen wrote: »

Funded a lot of mother and baby homes and schools too where they took advantage of vulnerable people and tried to cover it up.

I’m sorry that it upsets you that the institution is warped.

The CC (like all other organised faiths) needs to grow and develop. It needs an audience. It needs money. It needs to survive. It needs to live and breathe.

At the most fundamental level the CC is an industry and a business like all others. Once you keep that in mind you can justify everything.

partyguinness

lalababa wrote: »

I'm always amazed by the backlash McCalese gets for saying that RCC doctrine is discriminatory to women & gays. Which it is..( Basically says women & gays are inherently evil and of lesser importance than men)
But shur begawd you can't bate a good mass shur don't be thinking too much fer yerself .....who do you think you are atall at all at all.

It is fear. As a general point religion thrives on fear and ignorance but run by people who are anything but fearful and ignorant.

Is my local bishop a bishop because he is more religious than the priests below him? No. He is the smartest and best 'operator'. He 'gets' the business or the Firm.

It is no coincidence that the most fundamentally religious commnities across all faiths and across the world are also some of the poorest.

Dalkin

I like Mary McAlese but I do think she seems to be a bit obsessed with the church. What does she expect the catholic church to have only catholic views? If it's an empire of misogyny and what not why does she worship at its alter every week (least I think she's still a practicing catholic). I just left the church when I developed views which were inconsistent with catholicism.
I suppose because she is a practicing catholic it's her business what her church says and does. She is an active member and is very knowledgeable about things like canon law I think.
I reckon it's not really for people like me to say how the church should be. I can (and frequently do!) disagree with the pope left right and centre when debating with Catholics. I can also object to catholic views being imposed on the rest of us but when it comes to church policy that's for Catholics to sort out.

tdf7187

Jim2007 wrote: »

I know lockdown is hard, but obsessing about Mary McAleese is not health.

She is a major public figure, has a high media profile and her pronouncements are regularly quoted in the establishment media, almost always without any dissent or adverse comment. Starting a thread critiquing the pronouncements of a public figure is hardly obsessing over her.

tayto lover

Is she acting on behalf of all gays or just her son?
Hadn’t heard much about it until the son came out.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

Maybe for the Church to move on with the times and to stop living in the 1500s.

The Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic institution. F*ck ‘em.

The Catholic Church is the safest, easiest institution in the world to kick these days. Get zero points for edginess.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss. The Catholic Church doesn't have its adherents routinely throwing gays off buildings and telling women they can't drive.

randd1

keano_afc wrote: »

But they're not going to change. Don't like it? Fine, don't join it. Move on and find another hobby.

Which people are doing. Because they’re not changing with the times. Which is kind of her point.

Although she misses the bigger point that it’s all nonsense to begin with, based on little more than a well organized fairy tale for adults.

randd1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Catholic Church is the safest, easiest institution in the world to kick these days. Get zero points for edginess.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss. The Catholic Church doesn't have its adherents routinely throwing gays off buildings and telling women they can't drive.

If perspective was applied to religion, religion wouldn’t exist.

Bobtheman

partyguinness wrote: »

Well, of course it is the simplistic version to paint the overall picture. It is a Boards post and not meant to be a comprehensive treatsie.

The po faced Tooler has impeccable creditentials and his analysis historical is sound (a bit too depressing sometimes granted) but I can understand why he would get under your skin what with his pesky historical analysis of Church related matters...;)

Why would you say that the Church based system is more efficent than the pure State system? I am not disagreeing with you as such just curious as a matter of interest.

Exactly how does tooler have impeccable credentials? He has been around too long and is incredibly predictable. Tedious. He doesn't try to see the other side and thus is essentially an echo chamber.
Most hospitals and schools in Ireland are trusts. They raise their own money plus get state subvention. Thus secondary schools get less funding than say a community school. Hospitals founded by the religious and still operable today get less funding than fully state hospitals. They can raise their own money etc. Not burdened by total state bull****.
I think one has to read a history book or two and not rely on tooler and his odd article.
The church through out Europe was integral to the building of health and education systems. There were rarely any alternatives.
The church essentially created civic society and if you doubt it look at Muslim countries for the lack of it.
Tom Holland has a great book on it. Dominion. Essentially Europe is a Christian creation. Even today

Mcaleese is just another boring ''woke'' has-been interviewing more vacuous people like Dwyer and that bimbo Purcell with her fake lips who doesnt know her arse from her elbow

AdrianBalboa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Catholic Church is the safest, easiest institution in the world to kick these days. Get zero points for edginess.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss. The Catholic Church doesn't have its adherents routinely throwing gays off buildings and telling women they can't drive.

No they just raped a load of kids and covered it up.

Annasopra

tayto lover wrote: »

Is she acting on behalf of all gays or just her son?
Hadn’t heard much about it until the son came out.

Not at all. Mary has a long history of supporting lgbt rights.

She cofounded the campaign for homosexual law reform with David Norris in 1975

She highlighted Catholic church homophobia as far back as 1997 and supported LGBT youth anti homophobic bullying campaigns in the 2000s

Galwayguy35

Sure if she doesn't agree with what they are saying she can leave because they aren't going to change because she starts whinging about some rule or other they have.

beggars_bush

There should be no religious programs on rte

buried

Is she a practicing catholic? If so, she'd want to read more up her Abrahamic religion and what her god Yahweh liked to dish out on a regular basis in the old testament.

Bobtheman

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

No they just raped a load of kids and covered it up.

Right on man. It was only church people. No lay person ever raped a child. Idiot

Bobtheman

Annasopra wrote: »

Not at all. Mary has a long history of supporting lgbt rights.

She cofounded the campaign for homosexual law reform with David Norris in 1975

She highlighted Catholic church homophobia as far back as 1997 and supported LGBT youth anti homophobic bullying campaigns in the 2000s

Really? She hardly mentioned it when president. To my recollection.
Just checked your facts. She did support david Norris in the 1970s but I really don't recall her being pro gay as president.

Annasopra

Bobtheman wrote: »

Really? She hardly mentioned it when president. To my recollection.
Just checked your facts. She did support david Norris in the 1970s but I really don't recall her being pro gay as president.

She was very supportive of Belong Tos work while she was President.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mcaleese-urges-action-on-homophobic-bullying-1.830902?mode=amp

billyhead

She's just a bitter old woman. She's probably going a bit senile.

Annasopra

billyhead wrote: »

She's just a bitter old woman. She's probably going a bit senile.

Lol. She is so much more thsn a bitter old woman that might be senile. But yeah your lack of argument and judgementalism says more about you than anyone else.