Are you a paedophile sympathiser?

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 5:34pm #1

[EDIT: YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ BEYOND THE YOUTUBE LINK TO GET THE POINT. DON'T LET TLDR PHOBIA PUT YOU OFF]

Trigger warning!!

Reading the pasted article, or clicking on the link to the YouTube audio file, might incur feelings of guilt and shame, especially if you feel yourself moved or entertained by the content because the authors of both have since been exposed as child sex abusers.

I have not named either (most unecessarily, I suspect) but the writer of the song performed by Imogen Heap is now dead and his reputation, such as it was, has recently been besmirched by allegations--widely believed--of paedophile behaviour with young boys. He was nevertheless one of the best selling recording artists of all time and although I was never much of a fan of his music, I really do like Ms Heap's version of his biggest hit.

As for the sports journalist: he was once one of Ireland's finest exponents of the genre but is now currently serving time having pleaded guilty to the "Defilement of a minor", namely a young girl who played for a sports team he coached.

The issue I have is what should be one's attitude to the high-quality creative output of people who are subsequently exposed as deviant, perverted or criminal? Several radio stations have announced they will no longer play the music of the deceased pop superstar. The catalogue of writing the sports journalist produced for his main employer, a leading Irish daily newspaper, is similarly no longer available on its website, even to subscribers to its paywalled content.

Is this acceptable? Are we better people for shutting out our ears and minds to content that was once widely and highly praised as being among the finest of its type?

The article, published on the funeral day of the daughter of a leading GAA manager, is touching in its appreciation of the family relationship between father and daughter. Bear in mind that as it was written, the author probably knew that he was about to be exposed as a criminal by his own daughter who had discovered evidence of his wrong doing (phone texts) and informed her mother and consequently the police.

Of course you may feel unable to consume either piece of content. The baying of the mob demanding commonality of outrage set at the lowest common denominator is hard to resist. What Cork Hurling fan would dare today to wave the Confederate flag that was once popular because of its "rebel" association for fear of being condemned as a racist apologists for white supremacy marchers in Alabama?

I am not an apologist for paedophilia or for grooming young teenagers 30 years my junior. Nor is it any part of my case that said journalist should be excused punishment. (The singer/song writer is beyond retribution) He transgressed, he was caught, convicted and is doing the time. Quite right.

But just as being a talented person does not absolve people of crimes, nor do those crimes devalue the quality of their work. Do they?

What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFzHv53UVXI

Let's hope Mickey can return to his gift
Irish Times, Monday, January 17, 2011

Source

TheValeyard · 08-03-2019 5:40pm

Not reading that thesis.

Someone please summarise.

Big Words · 08-03-2019 5:43pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

<quoting the entire thing>

Interesting

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 5:44pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Not reading that thesis.

Someone please summarise.

Twitter generation?

Do great songs/poems/paintings/prose works become worthless drivel that must be avoided and shunned once their creators are found to be criminals? Discuss.

Pa8301 · 08-03-2019 5:44pm

TLDR

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-03-2019 5:46pm

OP far exceeds required attention span of AH posters 2/10

EmmetSpiceland · 08-03-2019 5:46pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Not reading that thesis.

Someone please summarise.

Just say no.

Birneybau · 08-03-2019 5:47pm

There's a special place in hell for yer wan that quoted the whole o.p.

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 5:48pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

OP far exceeds required attention span of AH posters 2/10

Well, you only have to read as far as the YOUTUBE link to get the point.

The clip and the article are just collateral. And I would have much preferred to provide a link to the article than repost it in its entirety, but like I said in the OP, like all of the rest of the disgraced writer's oeuvre, it's not available online any more.

TheValeyard · 08-03-2019 5:48pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Twitter generation?

Do great songs/poems/paintings/prose works become worthless drivel that must be avoided and shunned once their creators are found to be criminals? Discuss.

If we were serious about shunning the work of artists who became criminals why havent we banned Roman Polanski or why does he seem to get a free pass from the Hollywood elite.

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 5:50pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

If we were serious about shunning the work of artists who became criminals why havent we banned Roman Polanski

Should we? That's the question.

Guy:Incognito · 08-03-2019 5:51pm

Not a ****ing hope am I reading all that.

RWCNT · 08-03-2019 5:51pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Twitter generation?

Do great songs/poems/paintings/prose works become worthless drivel that must be avoided and shunned once their creators are found to be criminals? Discuss.

Im in favour of separating the art from the artist, although I can understand why some people can't. I was a big Lostprophets fan in my youth but they never make it onto the playlist if I'm having a reminisce these days because I simply can't listen to the singer's voice without thinking about the disgusting **** he got up to. Thats a very extreme example though. If at all possible I try to avoid monetarily supporting anyone I find reprehensible, so I'd rather stream some sort of unofficial lyric video on youtube rather than stream on spotify for example.

buried · 08-03-2019 5:51pm

Turn down them angelus bells I can't hear myself drink

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 5:52pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not a ****ing hope am I reading all that.

Never mind the "Snowflake Generation"; Goldfish generation is a more appropriate name.

Tacklebox · 08-03-2019 5:54pm

Listening to the words of that song seems kinda creepy, after all the wacko drama etc

Cold hands, night creatures crawling, yeuch...

Hear the door slam and realise there's no where else left to run....

Reminds me of an abusive relationship or something...

Alcoholic parent coming home and lashing out....

Take away the zombies etc

Sam Quentin · 08-03-2019 5:55pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

OP far exceeds required attention span of AH posters 2/10

lmao :pac::pac::pac:

EPAndlee · 08-03-2019 5:57pm

Can someone shorten it into like three sentences, I haven't the attention span to read all that

08-03-2019 6:00pm

EPAndlee wrote: »

Can someone shorten it into like three sentences, I haven't the attention span to read all that

I'd sooner have a snicker.

Your Face · 08-03-2019 6:00pm

Cringe.

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 6:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd sooner have a snicker.

PFFT! Like you could get a snicker

iwilldare · 08-03-2019 6:04pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Twitter generation?

Do great songs/poems/paintings/prose works become worthless drivel that must be avoided and shunned once their creators are found to be criminals? Discuss.

Only Smooth Criminals.

08-03-2019 6:05pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

PFFT! Like you could get a snicker

I snickered at this post.

Edgware · 08-03-2019 6:10pm

EPAndlee wrote: »

Can someone shorten it into like three sentences, I haven't the attention span to read all that

Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 08-03-2019 6:10pm

Fusitive wrote: »

does it make us a sympatiser if we still like those things.

No. That's some serious straw clutching to whoever came up with that idea.

08-03-2019 6:13pm

Big Words wrote: »

Interesting

WTF is wrong with you that you would quote the whole first post? That sh1t should be a bannable offence

Infonovice · 08-03-2019 6:31pm

If you just wrote some key points it might be easier to get a discussion going.

It really was waaaaay long;)

Mr. CooL ICE · 08-03-2019 6:33pm

Mod: OP, don't paste entire articles without citing the source. Leave it at 3 paragraphs and a link please.

Atoms for Peace · 08-03-2019 6:35pm

I like waving the Confederate flag while listening to MJ.

Fighting Tao · 08-03-2019 6:38pm

I’d be surprised if anyone bar the OP actually read the full post and watched the videos.

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 8:38pm

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Mod: OP, don't paste entire articles without citing the source. Leave it at 3 paragraphs and a link please.

Point taken.

I genuinely thought the article wasn't available online so I pasted it in its entirety. It is hard to search articles by that author because his name doesn't come up as an option on which to search articles on the Times website.

So his content has not been removed but they just make it difficult to find it. Presumably because of his misdemeanours.

Seems a bit of a fig leaf, to be honest.

Good job on tidying up the OP, though

Snickers Man · 08-03-2019 9:08pm

Wow! Just came across this with the great Joan Rivers. And I think it's from 2005!!!

Yeah. Nobody knew.

is_that_so · 08-03-2019 9:21pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

If we were serious about shunning the work of artists who became criminals why havent we banned Roman Polanski or why does he seem to get a free pass from the Hollywood elite.

Because he's made some very good films? Chinatown is brilliant.

donkeykong5 · 08-03-2019 9:26pm

Delighted that Phil hoban and predator exposure team got off in court this morning. They are all heroes protecting innocent children from paedophile bastards. They are doing the job that the police and government are paid to do. !

suicide_circus · 08-03-2019 9:28pm

Paedo Sympathizer

Paedothizer

is_that_so · 08-03-2019 9:29pm

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Delighted that Phil hoban and predator exposure team got off in court this morning. They are all heroes protecting innocent children from paedophile bastards. They are doing the job that the police and government are paid to do. !

Until they get it wrong or one of those undesirables top themselves. But you won't care because it doesn't suit your brand of justice.

Spleerbun · 08-03-2019 10:03pm

While I haven't read the infamous article that seems to have everyone in a tizzy I have read the OP and I'm glad I did, great post.

I am fully in favour of the separation of the music/art or whatever from the person. Whether the allegations are true or not in the case of MJ for example, and there will always be those who believe them and who don't, I will continue to listen to his music whenever the mood strikes me. Because it is truly great music, some of the greatest music of all time, even if the allegations were true.

If people disagree with that and would never listen again I can fully understand that.

However it's the idea of completely banning things/whitewashing history and telling others what they can and cannot do or watch or read or listen to that irks me. We've seen other examples of similar behaviour recently with the defamation of statues (and indeed campaigns to take down statues) of historical figures who were perceived to have done something "non-PC". (The fact that their perceived transgressions may have been perfectly PC at the time of doing them seems to be incosequential!). Granted the statue stuff was in the nut house of the USA but we do unfortunately have a tendency to try and imitate them over here.

Anyway, they point being that whether you can separate the art from the person or not it's not up to you to decide that for others as well.

buried · 08-03-2019 10:33pm

When anybody creates a piece of art, its a two way street because the moment you create an artistic work and put it out to a wider audience, the audience effectively now 'owns' the work as well, as it may affect them in whatever way it may do. That's the great thing about art. And you can't limit any artistic works existence on the supposed high or lack of morality of the person who created it. That's just plain utter daft stupid. May as well ban everything. Gaius Julius Caesar wrote books, that's art too. Read 'The Conquest of Gaul', its on penguin classics for f**ks sake. He was responsible for murdering and slaughtering possibly hundreds of thousands of people including kids during his brutal conquests of Europe. He glees in the fact of it. Better ban that stuff too I suppose?

donkeykong5 · 08-03-2019 10:40pm

is_that_so wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Delighted that Phil hoban and predator exposure team got off in court this morning. They are all heroes protecting innocent children from paedophile bastards. They are doing the job that the police and government are paid to do. !

Until they get it wrong or one of those undesirables top themselves. But you won't care because it doesn't suit your brand of justice.

If ciaron craven had been caught in Ireland instead of Leeds by Phil hoban and predator exposure team you know as well as I do that sweet FA would have happened to him. He would have got either a suspended sentence or a friendly warning in court.

BalcombeSt4 · 08-03-2019 10:51pm

Do I sympathise with paedophiles? No.

They actually used to be a lot more brazen then they are now.

A year or two ago, I was reading an article about Dr. Morris Fraser, who was a child Doctor in Belfast and appeared in several documentaries between 1970 - 1975 about the effects of The Troubles had on children. Fraser was convicted of child sexual abuse in 1971 with a boy from Belfast who he brought to London for a weekend, two years later he was busted in New York as part of a international paedophile ring, but the trial collapsed, even with this knowledge he was allowed to work with children alone in private until the mid/late 70's in Belfast. In the 1980's he was a founding member of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) in Britain and one of it's main finacial backers. One of PIE's objectives was to lower the age of consent to four years of age. Also in the 80's he helped to distribute child porn around Britain, bringing young boys out on boating trips were he would take naked pictures of them, this was part of his Azimuth Trust charity. As of 2015 he was posting child sex fantasy stories he had written to the internet.

I'm not one for conspiracies but between this & Kincora Boy's Home were children were abused in a strikingly similar manner, taken from Belfast to London on weekends were they were abused by well of & powerful people in high society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddyL0u24G0

listermint · 08-03-2019 10:57pm

Tune in next week for the next outrage we can all get outraged about.

I'm outraged right now thinking about the outrage.

Let's call it outrage anticipation

Grrrr

donkeykong5 · 08-03-2019 11:16pm

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Do I sympathise with paedophiles? No.

Do actually used to be a lot more brazen then they are now.

A year or two ago, I was reading an article about Dr. Morris Fraser, who was a child Doctor in Belfast and appeared in several documentaries between 1970 - 1975 about the effects of The Troubles had on children. Fraser was convicted of child sexual abuse in 1971 with a boy from Belfast who he brought to London for a weekend, two years later he was busted in New York as part of a international paedophile ring, but the trial collapsed, even with this knowledge he was allowed to work with children alone in private until the mid/late 70's in Belfast. In the 1980's he was a founding member of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) in Britain and one of it's main finacial backers. One of PIE's objectives was to lower the age of consent to four years of age. Also in the 80's he helped to distribute child porn around Britain, bring youngs out on boating trips were he would take naked pictures of them, this was part of his Azimuth Trust charity. As of 2015 he was posting child sex fantasy stories he had written to the internet.

I'm not one for conspiracies but between this & Kincora Boy's Home were children were abused in a strikingly similar manner, taken from Belfast to London on weekends were they were abused by well of & powerful people in high society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddyL0u24G0

Ffs. Seriously!

Are you a paedophile sympathiser?

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