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Pine marten

  • 01-07-2020 6:39pm
    #1
    rje66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭


    One was sighted on our land close to farm . Cats and hens are missing. Happy to try to trap and release to other location. Is this a possibility?? Other options??


«1

Comments

  • #2
    bmc58
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭bmc58


    rje66 wrote: »
    One was sighted on our land close to farm . Cats and hens are missing. Happy to try to trap and release to other location. Is this a possibility?? Other options??

    Leave them alone.They will keep the invasive Grey squirrel population down.Which is what we want.


  • #3
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    rje66 wrote: »
    One was sighted on our land close to farm . Cats and hens are missing. Happy to try to trap and release to other location. Is this a possibility?? Other options??

    Discuss the options with your local NPWS Ranger. In the meantime though, you might just have to up your defences!


  • #4
    tinofapples
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭tinofapples


    Was at the kitchen sink a few weeks ago, one of them calmly hopped through the driveway and off out the back of our house.


  • #5
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    rje66 wrote: »
    One was sighted on our land close to farm . Cats and hens are missing. Happy to try to trap and release to other location. Is this a possibility?? Other options??

    they don't attack cats do they??


  • #6
    bmc58
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭bmc58


    fryup wrote: »
    they don't attack cats do they??

    Certainly not.A cat is much bigger than them and would possibly even kill the Pine Martin.


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  • #7
    bmc58
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭bmc58


    tinofapples wrote: »
    Was at the kitchen sink a few weeks ago, one of them calmly hopped through the driveway and off out the back of our house.

    Must have been lovely to see.Lovely animal.Many people have never seen a Pine Martin.Great to see it making a comeback in Ireland.


  • #8
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    bmc58 wrote: »
    Certainly not.A cat is much bigger than them and would possibly even kill the Pine Martin.

    about the same size wise i think, i'd reckon they'd avoid each other


  • #9
    Class MayDresser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭Class MayDresser


    fryup wrote: »
    about the same size wise i think, i'd reckon they'd avoid each other

    Would have thought a pine marten would easily slay a cat.


  • #10
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    bmc58 wrote: »
    Certainly not.A cat is much bigger than them and would possibly even kill the Pine Martin.

    a cat is no match for a pine marten. where I am here in north Mayo it's becoming slowly infested with Marten and they are wiping out song birds and hunting ground nesting birds day and night.
    lovely animals but we don't need another preditor here


  • #11
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Is this a pine marten


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  • #12
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,135 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Previous thread here suggests it is highly unlikely pine marten would dispose of a cat.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055961687

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #13
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Sorry think this will work


  • #14
    lucalux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭lucalux


    catrat12 wrote: »
    Sorry think this will work

    Looks like a pine marten to me alright


  • #15
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Sorry I know picture is awful but not bad if you zoom in

    Can’t believe I saw one in my garden delighted


  • #16
    Storm 10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    I rotated the picture and resized it might help


  • #17
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Cheers
    It was massive as it bounced along much bigger than a cat real long too


  • #18
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    fryup wrote: »
    about the same size wise i think, i'd reckon they'd avoid each other

    Larger pine martins would be more substantial than a domestic cat and a significantly more impressive predator too.

    Would they eat a cat ?? Not sure, but if their usual food source isn’t abundant who knows. They certainly massacre chickens without remorse. Killing for the sake of killing rather than killing to eat. Have seen a whole pen of chickens killed overnight by one.


  • #19
    Storm 10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    catrat12 wrote: »
    Cheers
    It was massive as it bounced along much bigger than a cat real long too

    If you save the picture to your desktop the click on it and zoom in it looks like one ok


  • #20
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    _Brian wrote: »
    They certainly massacre chickens without remorse. Killing for the sake of killing rather than killing to eat.
    it's not a situation they'd have found themselves in, in the sense that on an evolutionary scale, they'd have evolved to react that when food is available, kill it or it will escape.
    'killing for the sake of it' is not the way i'd phrase it. they're not doing it for enjoyment.


  • #21
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Wonder will I ever see the pine marten again in the garden don’t want to leave food out cause had rats before, plenty of rabbits around


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  • #22
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    a cat is no match for a pine marten. where I am here in north Mayo it's becoming slowly infested with Marten and they are wiping out song birds and hunting ground nesting birds day and night.
    lovely animals but we don't need another preditor here

    They're only coming back to their original habitat where they were until humans started killing them all.
    Native prey species numbers will drop then bounce back to their natural levels as they've evolved to live in the same environment as their predator species.
    Hopefully grey squirrels won't adapt and will continue get obliterated.
    Cats on the other hand have 24 very sharp ways to injure a pine marten, predators always go for the safest easiest meals so cats will be a long way down their list of all preferred prey


  • #23
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    They're only coming back to their original habitat where they were until humans started killing them all.
    Native prey species numbers will drop then bounce back to their natural levels as they've evolved to live in the same environment as their predator species.
    Hopefully grey squirrels won't adapt and will continue get obliterated.
    Cats on the other hand have 24 very sharp ways to injure a pine marten, predators always go for the safest easiest meals so cats will be a long way down their list of all preferred prey

    Bounce back ?? have you had a look around lately ? nothing on this rock is bouncing back so introducing a high end predator at this stage is madness. If we had an abundance of whatever they eat and I assure you it's not fruit and nuts as some would have you think they may have a place here. Beautiful animal that hunts for food not fun . In a perfect world yes but not now! I see them and deal with them every two weeks or so and they are destructive to say the least and near impossible to keep out


  • #24
    mouldybiscuits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭mouldybiscuits


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    Bounce back ?? have you had a look around lately ? nothing on this rock is bouncing back so introducing a high end predator at this stage is madness. If we had an abundance of whatever they eat and I assure you it's not fruit and nuts as some would have you think they may have a place here. Beautiful animal that hunts for food not fun . In a perfect world yes but not now! I see them and deal with them every two weeks or so and they are destructive to say the least and near impossible to keep out

    If the numbers don't bounce back we can just introduce a new predator or two to tackle the original one. Maybe arm a newly introduced species with a novel virus that will keep the numbers down to a more natural one.


  • #25
    Deagol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    a cat is no match for a pine marten. where I am here in north Mayo it's becoming slowly infested with Marten and they are wiping out song birds and hunting ground nesting birds day and night.
    lovely animals but we don't need another preditor here

    I think you'll find the 325,000 domestic cats in the country (which isn't a native creature to Ireland) kills far more song birds than the 2,700 native Pine Martens!


  • #26
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    They're only coming back to their original habitat where they were until humans started killing them all.
    Native prey species numbers will drop then bounce back to their natural levels as they've evolved to live in the same environment as their predator species.
    Hopefully grey squirrels won't adapt and will continue get obliterated.
    Cats on the other hand have 24 very sharp ways to injure a pine marten, predators always go for the safest easiest meals so cats will be a long way down their list of all preferred prey

    Bounce back ?? have you had a look around lately ? nothing on this rock is bouncing back so introducing a high end predator at this stage is madness. If we had an abundance of whatever they eat and I assure you it's not fruit and nuts as some would have you think they may have a place here. Beautiful animal that hunts for food not fun . In a perfect world yes but not now! I see them and deal with them every two weeks or so and they are destructive to say the least and near impossible to keep out


  • #27
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    Bounce back ?? have you had a look around lately ? nothing on this rock is bouncing back so introducing a high end predator at this stage is madness. If we had an abundance of whatever they eat and I assure you it's not fruit and nuts as some would have you think they may have a place here. Beautiful animal that hunts for food not fun . In a perfect world yes but not now! I see them and deal with them every two weeks or so and they are destructive to say the least and near impossible to keep out

    Am I understanding correctly from your posts that you think the Pine Marten has been introduced to Ireland? They are a native species making a comeback in numbers in recent decades but still relatively rarely seen.


  • #28
    Kaybaykwah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    If you ever catch one by the tail, hold onto the fur, it makes a nice watercolor brush.


  • #29
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    Deagol wrote: »
    I think you'll find the 325,000 domestic cats in the country (which isn't a native creature to Ireland) kills far more song birds than the 2,700 native Pine Martens!

    you're right on the cat story and every cat that shows up here won't get to leave. If I had a dog that I let come and go as it wants how would that work out. I've had cats get in and kill partridge here and who will replace them? cat owners think it's ok to let the little sweetheart out at night and do as it likes. 2700 ? Don t know who did the last count but they didn't come here or anywhere I know of to do it. I don't know the figures but I'd be thinking they're far higher than that. If forestry wasn't so widespread I think the marten numbers would be a bit more sustainable. they are a beautiful creature


  • #30
    Deagol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    you're right on the cat story and every cat that shows up here won't get to leave. If I had a dog that I let come and go as it wants how would that work out. I've had cats get in and kill partridge here and who will replace them? cat owners think it's ok to let the little sweetheart out at night and do as it likes. 2700 ? Don t know who did the last count but they didn't come here or anywhere I know of to do it. I don't know the figures but I'd be thinking they're far higher than that. If forestry wasn't so widespread I think the marten numbers would be a bit more sustainable. they are a beautiful creature

    Widespread forestry? You do know that Ireland is the least forested country in Europe??


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  • #31
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    Am I understanding correctly from your posts that you think the Pine Marten has been introduced to Ireland? They are a native species making a comeback in numbers in recent decades but still relatively rarely seen.

    Actually they were reintroduced up this side of the country (Mayo)and probably other parts. they do travel long distance too. look it up


  • #32
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    Bounce back ?? have you had a look around lately ? nothing on this rock is bouncing back so introducing a high end predator at this stage is madness. If we had an abundance of whatever they eat and I assure you it's not fruit and nuts as some would have you think they may have a place here. Beautiful animal that hunts for food not fun . In a perfect world yes but not now! I see them and deal with them every two weeks or so and they are destructive to say the least and near impossible to keep out

    Queens University would argue both pine martens and red squirrels are both bouncing back.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/pine-marten-helping-red-squirrel-population-rebound-study-shows-1.4185385

    An old neighbour had an attic riddled with them I know a house in drumkeeran that had a bunch of them invade one evening (one hid behind a shower curtain in the bath!)
    I'm not arguing that theyre not potentially a pain in the hole but they are a wildlife success story.
    I also used to see rats and mice running across the road around my house all the time, but not any more since I spotted pair of martens running down the same lane one day.
    Are you against birds of prey moving into new areas too?


  • #33
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    Queens University would argue both pine martens and red squirrels are both bouncing back.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/pine-marten-helping-red-squirrel-population-rebound-study-shows-1.4185385

    An old neighbour had an attic riddled with them I know a house in drumkeeran that had a bunch of them invade one evening (one hid behind a shower curtain in the bath!)
    I'm not arguing that theyre not potentially a pain in the hole but they are a wildlife success story.
    I also used to see rats and mice running across the road around my house all the time, but not any more since I spotted pair of martens running down the same lane one day.
    Are you against birds of prey moving into new areas too?

    No not against any of it just saying it as it is. they are all beautiful . some can have a devastating effect on other wildlife . just a chat not a row ;-)


  • #34
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    Actually they were reintroduced up this side of the country (Mayo)and probably other parts. they do travel long distance too. look it up

    Not sure about that and not sure where I’d look that up. Not sure why they would be reintroduced into areas where they would be most prevalent also, like the west. They are a native species and still relatively rare. Just happen to be more rare in some parts of the country.


  • #35
    Kaybaykwah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Deagol wrote: »
    Widespread forestry? You do know that Ireland is the least forested country in Europe??



    Yes, exactly, the landscape is bare when it comes to forests.


    I drove up and back from Abitibi region in Northern Quebec last week. It took 10 hours to get to my MIL’s house, and 9 hours were driving through forest. 3hours through a national park that is nothing but trees and lakes. By contrast, in Ireland I saw wooded areas that looked heavenly, but to my eye seemed manicured, and that is to be expected.


  • #36
    upupup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    No not against any of it just saying it as it is. they are all beautiful . some can have a devastating effect on other wildlife . just a chat not a row ;-)


    Is your issue that they are killing wildlife that you want to kill/hunt/shoot?
    if not what wildlife are under threat apart from the grey squirrel?


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  • #37
    Benny mcc
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Benny mcc


    upupup wrote: »
    Is your issue that they are killing wildlife that you want to kill/hunt/shoot?
    if not what wildlife are under threat apart from the grey squirrel?

    are you saying only grey squirrel are under threat ? how about song birds, ground nesters or even larger water fowl ? Now maybe you don't live here in Ireland or understand the need to protect what's left before it's to late but I do and it's not far off to late for some. I'm not trying to have a dig at you but often what people believe and what is actually the case can be far far apart.


  • #38
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    catrat12 wrote: »
    Cheers
    It was massive as it bounced along much bigger than a cat real long too

    This does not have the white throat that is usual with Pine Martens. It looks more like a mink to me.

    You can compare them here.

    http://www.conserveireland.com/mammals/americanmink.php

    http://www.conserveireland.com/mammals/pine_marten.php


  • #39
    upupup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    I asked you what wildlife do you believe is under threat a so i can investigate this and see is there substance to your claim.so if you give me an answer then we can discuss further
    What specific wildlife?


  • #40
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i've heard the 'they're decimating songbirds' argument mad about buzzards recently too, and i generally regard that as being an attempt to pull at the heartstrings rather than a statement actually based on evidence.


  • #41
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    are you saying only grey squirrel are under threat ? how about song birds, ground nesters or even larger water fowl ? Now maybe you don't live here in Ireland or understand the need to protect what's left before it's to late but I do and it's not far off to late for some. I'm not trying to have a dig at you but often what people believe and what is actually the case can be far far apart.

    Pine marten are not aquatic but mink most definitely are.


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  • #42
    upupup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Here is a great Irish websitehttps://pinemarten.ie/

    519442.jpg

    519441.jpg

    519440.jpg

    519439.jpg


  • #43
    Deagol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Benny mcc wrote: »
    are you saying only grey squirrel are under threat ? how about song birds, ground nesters or even larger water fowl ? Now maybe you don't live here in Ireland or understand the need to protect what's left before it's to late but I do and it's not far off to late for some. I'm not trying to have a dig at you but often what people believe and what is actually the case can be far far apart.

    Your argument makes no sense. Protect native wildlife from other native wildlife?? You keep intimating that somehow the Pine Marten is not native or is not deserving of the same status as other wildlife.

    Nature tends to states of equilibrium if left alone - if Martens eat too many birds etc then numbers will drop and martens numbers will drop back, bird numbers will rise again etc..

    And it's not what people believe - you are the one who is making broad statements with no sources to back them up except what you seem to believe. I've quoted numbers and I can provide you with the sources for those numbers if you wish - numbers from people who research these subjects and are experts in their field.

    I grew up in the countryside listening to ignorant people telling me that we should wipe out 1) Badgers because they spread TB, now a totally debunked myth 2) Foxes because they kill everything 3) Red deer because they eat all the tree bark 4) Pine Martens because they kill indescrimately 5) birds of prey because they kill lambs and calves 6) Otters because they eat all the fish 7) Seals at the coast because they eat all the fish 8) Rabbits because they eat all the grass and compete with cattle... are you seeing a pattern here?

    If many of the local 'experts' in my locality had their way the countryside would be a desert of cattle and sheep with a few token / non-threatening species left.

    Your arguments sounds suspiciously like that kind of thinking to my ears at least.

    I suspect also you are actually confusing mink - an invasive species that should be wiped out - and pine martens. Pine martens are mainly tree dwelling and rarely come to ground. If you are seeing a mustelid taking water fowl etc then much more likely it's a mink. Google the difference!


  • #44
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yep, there are three main reasons for freefalling animal numbers, be they songbird populations, squirrels, you name it:

    1) habitat loss
    2) habitat loss
    3) habitat loss
    and
    3) persecution


  • #45
    Tiercel Dave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭Tiercel Dave


    bob mcbob wrote: »
    This does not have the white throat that is usual with Pine Martens. It looks more like a mink to me.

    A Mink has shorter legs and moves closer to the ground, look how high this is standing plus it has a bushy tail.....

    50097102751_7db973e0f1_o.png


  • #46
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Tiercel Dave wrote: »
    A Mink has shorter legs and moves closer to the ground, look how high this is standing plus it has a bushy tail.....

    50097102751_7db973e0f1_o.png

    With the picture quality it is difficult but it could be in mid bound so would seem to be higher. Mink also have bushy tails.

    Also the head seems to be blunter like a mink - pine martens have a more pointed head


  • #47
    catrat12
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭catrat12


    Why is that picture so bad in above post or is that just for me
    It did have a white front and bounced along like videos I watched on the pine marten,
    Would it be rare enough to see pine marten in the Dublin mountains


  • #48
    Tiercel Dave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭Tiercel Dave


    catrat12 wrote: »
    Why is that picture so bad in above post or is that just for me
    It did have a white front and bounced along like videos I watched on the pine marten,
    Would it be rare enough to see pine marten in the Dublin mountains

    Image was 'blown up' to try get a close-up of the critter. Quality suffered.....


  • #49
    Curiousness99
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Curiousness99


    Deagol wrote: »
    Your argument makes no sense. Protect native wildlife from other native wildlife?? You keep intimating that somehow the Pine Marten is not native or is not deserving of the same status as other wildlife.

    Nature tends to states of equilibrium if left alone - if Martens eat too many birds etc then numbers will drop and martens numbers will drop back, bird numbers will rise again etc..

    And it's not what people believe - you are the one who is making broad statements with no sources to back them up except what you seem to believe. I've quoted numbers and I can provide you with the sources for those numbers if you wish - numbers from people who research these subjects and are experts in their field.

    I grew up in the countryside listening to ignorant people telling me that we should wipe out 1) Badgers because they spread TB, now a totally debunked myth 2) Foxes because they kill everything 3) Red deer because they eat all the tree bark 4) Pine Martens because they kill indescrimately 5) birds of prey because they kill lambs and calves 6) Otters because they eat all the fish 7) Seals at the coast because they eat all the fish 8) Rabbits because they eat all the grass and compete with cattle... are you seeing a pattern here?

    If many of the local 'experts' in my locality had their way the countryside would be a desert of cattle and sheep with a few token / non-threatening species left.

    Your arguments sounds suspiciously like that kind of thinking to my ears at least.

    I suspect also you are actually confusing mink - an invasive species that should be wiped out - and pine martens. Pine martens are mainly tree dwelling and rarely come to ground. If you are seeing a mustelid taking water fowl etc then much more likely it's a mink. Google the difference!

    Where I live most people still think like that, deer rabbits generally hated, buzzards, sparrow hawks disliked too. I thought there was actually a link between badgers and tb among cattle. Foxes shot on sight by most of the neighbours Who have guns too.

    Loads of rabbits around, they don’t bother me, but I’m guessing it’s only a question of time before someone introduced myxomatosis And it gets them, I assume they’re infected on purpose

    I’m sure there’s a balance somewhere in control but I’m not sure where it is

    Be a long time changing People’s behaviour though


  • #50
    Curiousness99
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Curiousness99


    catrat12 wrote: »
    Why is that picture so bad in above post or is that just for me
    It did have a white front and bounced along like videos I watched on the pine marten,
    Would it be rare enough to see pine marten in the Dublin mountains

    I’ve never seen one but you kids saw one recently up the Dublin mountains which I think is great


  • #51
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    Old piney is the Irish equivalent of the wolverine.
    A grand animal.great to see it getting plentiful.


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