Mars by 2020?

Rubecula · 23-08-2017 9:31pm

Fathom wrote: »

Mars glider.

I see the design incorporates a blended wing and a lifting body, looks heavy but it is probably very efficient.

Fathom · 24-08-2017 6:23pm

Alternative hang glider design for Mars entry. aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA0Ny82ODYvb3JpZ2luYWwvbWFycy1kcm9wLWZsaWdodC10cmFqZWN0b3J5LmpwZw==

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA0Ny82ODYvb3JpZ2luYWwvbWFycy1kcm9wLWZsaWdodC10cmFqZWN0b3J5LmpwZw==

Capt'n Midnight · 24-08-2017 9:43pm

Fathom wrote: »

Alternative hang glider design for Mars entry.

65 g's :eek:

Aero brake to one of the moons and build a space elevator :P

Fathom · 25-08-2017 4:06pm

McGill Robotics Mars Rover 2017 Critical Design Review.

flaneur · 25-08-2017 4:12pm

Unfortunately, without the US and NASA on board this is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

The American political system is now so unhinged I think we are looking at the end of the golden age of US space exploration. They either don't want to spend the money or are anti-science.

The European Space Agency Is also limited by a lack of funds, as member states won't cough up the significant monies needed so it's always on a shoestring..

Russia doesn't have anything like that drive to show off and explore like it did in the Soviet days.

China might as a vanity project but not unless there's something to have a space race with.

The others are probably all too small.

Commercial operators would need a commercial inventive to go. The risks are enormous and the investment even more so.

Rubecula · 25-08-2017 10:25pm

flaneur wrote: »

Unfortunately, without the US and NASA on board this is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

The American political system is now so unhinged I think we are looking at the end of the golden age of US space exploration. They either don't want to spend the money or are anti-science.

The European Space Agency Is also limited by a lack of funds, as member states won't cough up the significant monies needed so it's always on a shoestring..

Russia doesn't have anything like that drive to show off and explore like it did in the Soviet days.

China might as a vanity project but not unless there's something to have a space race with.

The others are probably all too small.

Commercial operators would need a commercial inventive to go. The risks are enormous and the investment even more so.

one reason I think Mars could/should be bypassed for now and go straight to the asteroids for mining possibilities

Roger_007 · 25-08-2017 10:53pm

One thing that puzzles me about sending human beings to Mars is how is it proposed to get them back again.
It would be so much more difficult to launch a vehicle from the surface of Mars than it was from the Moon. Unlike the Moon, Mars has an atmosphere and it also has a much greater greater gravitational pull.
Unless an unmanned test mission is undertaken to send a spacecraft to Mars, land a module on the surface and launch a module back to, (and dock with), the mother ship, and return to Earth, I cannot see any manned mission taking place.
Another factor is that the political climate is becoming increasingly risk-averse and it difficult to see any political leaders in any country approving such a risky venture.

Capt'n Midnight · 26-08-2017 12:20am

One advantage Mars has is the possibility to make fuel on site.
The only drawback is that you need lots of energy and the surface of Mars is a low energy environment. Being further from the Sun solar panels aren't as good as here. Compared to panels in orbit you also loose power at night and during sandstorms.

Nuclear has been proposed for power. But it's heavy and there would be lots of objectors.

flaneur · 26-08-2017 11:22am

Rubecula wrote: »

one reason I think Mars could/should be bypassed for now and go straight to the asteroids for mining possibilities

Only if it made economic sense relative to mining on Earth.

You'd kinda wonder what the consequences of bringing seriously large amounts of minerals from asteroids to Earth might be too.

I know we are bombarded with space rocks but if you had someone brining down very large amounts of material you could easily imagine some unexpected consequence that we didn't think of.

There are a lot of systems in pretty fine balance.

flaneur · 26-08-2017 11:25am

Mars seems very definitely dead too, with a thin and slowly evaporating atmosphere and no significant magnetic field.

I wonder should we be putting more effort into looking at the Jupiter moons?

Europa and Ganymede seem to be very interesting places and could even have some kind of ecosystems.

Rubecula · 26-08-2017 5:56pm

flaneur wrote: »

Mars seems very definitely dead too, with a thin and slowly evaporating atmosphere and no significant magnetic field.

I wonder should we be putting more effort into looking at the Jupiter moons?

Europa and Ganymede seem to be very interesting places and could even have some kind of ecosystems.

mining Ganymede may make financial sense too if they drop the raw stuff on Mars

(by the way the Earth has a mass of aprox 5.9 sextillion tonnes. I seriously doubt we can affect it by any noticable degree)

flaneur · 26-08-2017 6:27pm

(that's what we always say....)

Fathom · 26-08-2017 11:26pm

Snowy dunes. Spring in the Northern Mars hemisphere. Snow and ice are composed of carbon dioxide; i.e., dry ice. Taken by High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

Fathom · 28-08-2017 4:27pm

Minerals found on Mars suggest crater once contained right elements for habitability.

Rubecula · 28-08-2017 4:54pm

good post Fathom

Fathom · 28-08-2017 8:46pm

Rubecula wrote: »

good post Fathom

Setting foot on Mars? Seems impractical. Costly. Low ROI, if not losses. Develop & send more sophisticated robots. But... Star Trekkie exploration feelings exist. In may of us. "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its 5-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."

Rubecula · 28-08-2017 9:39pm

Fathom wrote: »

Setting foot on Mars? Seems impractical. Costly. Low ROI, if not losses. Develop & send more sophisticated robots. But... Star Trekkie exploration feelings exist. In may of us. "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its 5-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."

I agree but also logic dictates tat humans should not be more than a light hour or two away, what would be the point? if the bot got itself in a jam it would need a human command to sort it out, ans this will be the same for a long time to come.

Fathom · 29-08-2017 4:17pm

Rubecula wrote: »

I agree but also logic dictates tat humans should not be more than a light hour or two away, what would be the point? if the bot got itself in a jam it would need a human command to sort it out, ans this will be the same for a long time to come.

AI and robotics has been progressing rapidly. Several universities and nations competing to build and program a robot with human capabilities. It's only a matter of time before a highly sophisticated robot could replace humans in Mars exploration.

Fathom · 29-08-2017 10:57pm

Mars software AI highly accurate in mineral selection and analysis. Autonomous Exploration for Gathering Increased Science (AEGIS) with Curiosity continues to do science while out of contact with human controllers.

Rubecula · 30-08-2017 12:02am

why would we send artificial intelligence to distant places though? sorry but I can not see the point.

Fathom · 30-08-2017 3:30pm

Rubecula wrote: »

why would we send artificial intelligence to distant places though? sorry but I can not see the point.

"These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its 5-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no [android] has gone before?"

Rubecula · 30-08-2017 11:49pm

Fathom wrote: »

"These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its 5-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no [android] has gone before?"

humans are curious about something so we send a robot, one we probably never see or hear from again? I would be seriously disappointed if there was not at least one human along for the ride. it nay be dangerous but I would put my name forward in a flash.

Fathom · 01-09-2017 4:04pm

Mars One seeks those interested in a one-way trip. The veracity of such a trip may be problematic.

Rubecula · 02-09-2017 2:02am

too o[d and decrepit, need cyborg enhancements lol

Fathom · 02-09-2017 4:34pm

Long space missions. Microgravity in space. May use gene therapy. One source to adapt while in flight to Mars?

Black Swan · 02-09-2017 9:14pm

Gene therapy has been emerging quickly to address all sorts of medical problems, so it is not surprising that such an approach may be applied to long space flights.

Rubecula · 02-09-2017 9:24pm

gene therapy? or mucking about the life of babies who have no say in the matter?

not thought about it before but what if the babies grow up to resent not being left to live on Earth?

Black Swan · 03-09-2017 7:43pm

Rubecula wrote: »

gene therapy? or mucking about the life of babies who have no say in the matter?

not thought about it before but what if the babies grow up to resent not being left to live on Earth?

I am uncertain what you are referring to Rubecula? "Life of babies?" I believe the subject was how to overcome the potential adverse physiological effects of long space fights (e.g., flights to and from Mars), and how gene therapy may provide solutions?

"Gene therapy is an experimental technique that uses genes to treat or prevent disease. In the future, this technique may allow doctors to treat a disorder by inserting a gene into a patient’s cells instead of using drugs or surgery. Researchers are testing several approaches to gene therapy, including:

Replacing a mutated gene that causes disease with a healthy copy of the gene.
Inactivating, or “knocking out,” a mutated gene that is functioning improperly.
Introducing a new gene into the body to help fight a disease."

TheIrishGrover · 03-09-2017 7:53pm

I always hoped to see man on Mars in my lifetime. But every month or so there's a new hurdle it seems: Be it higher radiation than expected, more difficult to extract usable water than expected or the unusuability of the native soil.
It is a pity but I believe, as others have said, that there are more viable projects: Moonbase, Lunar telescope, expanded ISS etc. I mean all these are doable and, in this day and age, be profitable. Let's build another space telescope like the James Webb but in the visible light spectrum. Look at those wonderful Hubble images and how they inspired a new interest in space.
What we need is conclusive proof of extra-terrestrial life (Even a microbe would do. Maybe detecting artificial gasse arouls an extra-solar planet

. Again, think how mush it would ignite the imagination af the next generation of potential astrophysicists.

Fathom · 03-09-2017 9:17pm

Rubecula wrote: »

gene therapy? or mucking about the life of babies who have no say in the matter?

Confused. Clarify please.

Rubecula · 04-09-2017 12:26am

Fathom wrote: »

Confused. Clarify please.

if gene therapy works on adults they can give permission to go ahead. Babies or unborn can not give permission. supposing for example gene therapy on an unborn child can allow them to be born with a prehensile tail to help live in space ... but also cause weakness in the legs so walking upright in gravity is impossible.

should it be done in the name of space travel or not?

Fathom · 06-09-2017 11:07pm

Rubecula wrote: »

Babies or unborn can not give permission. supposing for example gene therapy on an unborn child can allow them to be born with a prehensile tail to help live in space ... but also cause weakness in the legs so walking upright in gravity is impossible. should it be done in the name of space travel or not?

Good ethics question.

Fathom · 09-09-2017 12:16am

Wired vid regarding "physical effects of space travel and interplanetary colonization, specifically to Mars."

Rubecula · 11-09-2017 12:45am

Fathom wrote: »

Wired vid regarding "physical effects of space travel and interplanetary colonization, specifically to Mars."

the subject and content was very interesting but I would fall asleep listening to her delivery if she had spoken for longer.

Fathom · 11-09-2017 10:18pm

Visited cousin at JPL. Saw this Mars exploration poster on wall.

Rubecula · 13-09-2017 7:33am

Fathom wrote: »

Visited cousin at JPL. Saw this Mars exploration poster on wall.

I watched a tv documentary last night on the BBC all about going to mars.

I can not yet put a link on here, but there was another documentary a few nights ago, not about local planets, hope it is of interest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0953y04/the-search-for-a-new-earth

Rubecula · 13-09-2017 7:36am

oh here it is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09574pc/horizon-2017-mars-a-travellers-guide

Fathom · 13-09-2017 4:22pm

Mars exploration. Catches imagination. Manifests activity. Over time. Eventually humans may visit. Similar to past Moon landings. Until then orbiting satellites and robots gather data.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-09-2017 5:57pm

Humans can do things robots can't.

NASA was paying about a billion dollars per shuttle launch for at most a few weeks in low earth orbit because it was far too large.

Soyuz is much smaller and costs a lot less to get to orbit. Very roughly the same cost as the Indian Mangalyaan which has been orbiting Mars for years now.

But robots are way cheaper.

Anicka · 14-09-2017 12:51pm

Arbie wrote: »

A moonbase would be cheaper, safer, more practical, and imagine how cool it would be to be able to see it from a telescope!

Also imagine the options for tourism! :eek:

Fathom · 14-09-2017 11:23pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Humans can do things robots can't.

Today. Future? AI robotics expanding rapidly and geometrically.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But robots are way cheaper.

Strong selling point.

Anicka wrote: »

Also imagine the options for tourism! :eek:

SpaceX selling tickets for trips in space. Tomorrow the Moon?

Capt'n Midnight · 15-09-2017 12:00am

Fathom wrote: »

Today. Future? AI robotics expanding rapidly and geometrically.

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

ban resistant recalcitrant debutant · 15-09-2017 1:05am

There isn't much point in going to Mars I don't think. It's a large rock. I think we should do a base on the moon first. A large one that could hold 200 people or so similar to the one on Antarctic.

The moon base would be great for public interest and for science. But there's no way we could make it an independent eco system to the Earth. I don't think we could raise generations of humans with no re-supply from Earth.

Could we ever make a base on the moon which could exist without resupply from Earth for 100 years or more?
Could children be raised and would they get all the essential nutrients?

If we can't exist permenently on the moons and planets then perhaps we should send those Star Chips to other worlds. They're very good, you can send them in large numbers very cheaply, and they can be sent at 20% of c, which gets them to other worlds very quickly.

The asteriods are very spaced out, so you can't visit them in the sense they aren't all piled up in one spot. They're probably very spaced out. Man.

Fathom · 15-09-2017 6:43pm

Still very early for AI robotics high levels of sophistication, but 2012 "Curiosity started making decisions on its own" on Mars. Autonomous Exploration for Gathering Increased Science, or AEGIS.

Fathom · 16-09-2017 10:48pm

AEGIS has been evolving while exploring Mars. First applied to Opportunity. Later to Curiosity with improvements.

Fathom · 18-09-2017 5:14pm

In 2004 NASA landed twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity on Mars. Missions planned to last three months. Spirit worked for 6 years. Opportunity is still active.

Fathom · 03-10-2017 8:46pm

Mars dust storms. 60 to 161 days duration. Still want to live there?

Capt'n Midnight · 03-10-2017 11:40pm

Also the lack of water means the dust is probably as sharp as the stuff on the moon.

Rubecula · 05-10-2017 12:48am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Also the lack of water means the dust is probably as sharp as the stuff on the moon.

sharp stuff the size of dust would indicate the presence of water rather than the lack of it if there is an atmosphere present, only larger particles are smoothed by water.

Fathom · 06-10-2017 8:36pm

Mars by 2020?

Comments