Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

bk · 30-01-2018 5:17pm

Frostybrew wrote: »

You must also remember that that €1 billion for the M20 is for the whole of the western seaboard and not just for Cork.

Doesn't matter, it won't be seen like that by the public.

The fact of the matter is that these things get decided by politicians. Push for LRT for Cork and you will end up with buttons. BRT + big upgrades to Cork City bus network is a more realistic goal.

cgcsb · 30-01-2018 5:21pm

bk wrote: »

Decent numbers use it, but pretty light compared to any Dublin Bus core route. So on it's own it wouldn't justify BRT.

A very scientific analysis there. The Dublin Bus comparison is hardly valid. Dublin Bus is HEAVILY over subscribed major routes should've been replaced by rail decades ago. Also Dublin has largely achieved it's desired modal shift to PT. Cork still has to achieve that switch away from the car and that can only be done by providing a good alternative. Transport policy will see much of Cork City Centre closed to cars in the coming years and then you'll see Dublin style sardine buses.

bk wrote: »

However hopefully with big redevelopment of the docks and thousands of new apartments, the numbers would be there to support BRT.

The proposals for Cork's docklands are transformative, more so than Dublin's docklands. The plan is to add thousands of apartments to the area which in % terms represents a huge re-concentration of metropolitain Cork's population back into the centre, that has to be accommodated, all those people cannot be driving cars around the place.

cgcsb · 30-01-2018 5:25pm

bk wrote: »

Balfast has a population almost twice that of Cork and it is only getting it's first BRT now.

I'll need to go read that report, but I seriously doubt Cork has demand high enough to justify LRT.

Provincial UK public transport policy is a disaster, Belfast is especially bad because, while the rest of the UK suffered from 20th Century suburbanization, Belfast City Centre was physically closed with actual gates and armed soldiers after sundown for decades, with a simultaneously imposed curfew, the result is a particularly suburbanized and car dependent culture, even by UK standards.

draiochtanois · 30-01-2018 5:25pm

This post has been deleted.

Frostybrew · 30-01-2018 5:35pm

bk wrote: »

Doesn't matter, it won't be seen like that by the public.

The fact of the matter is that these things get decided by politicians. Push for LRT for Cork and you will end up with buttons. BRT + big upgrades to Cork City bus network is a more realistic goal.

Apparently Shane Ross is keen on LRT for Cork. It's not totally decided by politicians. Senior civil servants, advisors, and lobbyists have a greater say, and are a little bit panicked by Brexit behind the scenes. Which is probably why Ross has suddenly become so keen.

cgcsb wrote: »

A very scientific analysis there. The Dublin Bus comparison is hardly valid. Dublin Bus is HEAVILY over subscribed major routes should've been replaced by rail decades ago. Also Dublin has largely achieved it's desired modal shift to PT. Cork still has to achieve that switch away from the car and that can only be done by providing a good alternative. Transport policy will see much of Cork City Centre closed to cars in the coming years and then you'll see Dublin style sardine buses.

The proposals for Cork's docklands are transformative, more so than Dublin's docklands. The plan is to add thousands of apartments to the area which in % terms represents a huge re-concentration of metropolitain Cork's population back into the centre, that has to be accommodated, all those people cannot be driving cars around the place.

The goal for Cork is to avoid the expensive mistakes (underinvesting in public transport) that Dublin has made.

bk · 30-01-2018 7:57pm

cgcsb wrote: »

A very scientific analysis there. The Dublin Bus comparison is hardly valid. Dublin Bus is HEAVILY over subscribed major routes should've been replaced by rail decades ago. Also Dublin has largely achieved it's desired modal shift to PT. Cork still has to achieve that switch away from the car and that can only be done by providing a good alternative. Transport policy will see much of Cork City Centre closed to cars in the coming years and then you'll see Dublin style sardine buses.

Well if you would like to give us a more scientific analysis, please do! :mad:

The 202 is one of the busiest routes in Cork, yet, I'm certain it wouldn't even break the top 30 routes in Dublin. Thus suggesting spending 1 billion replacing it seems to be pretty pre-mature!

And I will point you to Cork City Councils own report which clearly doesn't find enough demand for LRT.

cgcsb wrote: »

The proposals for Cork's docklands are transformative, more so than Dublin's docklands. The plan is to add thousands of apartments to the area which in % terms represents a huge re-concentration of metropolitain Cork's population back into the centre, that has to be accommodated, all those people cannot be driving cars around the place.

I agree, it is very impressive. But it needs to get started. Their is little evidence of even a sniff of it getting started unfortunately. It is pretty pie in the sky stuff at the moment.

bk · 30-01-2018 8:00pm

Frostybrew wrote: »

Apparently Shane Ross is keen on LRT for Cork. It's not totally decided by politicians. Senior civil servants, advisors, and lobbyists have a greater say, and are a little bit panicked by Brexit behind the scenes. Which is probably why Ross has suddenly become so keen.

Interesting, though might turn into a white elephant or never get off the ground.

Great if it does happen, but I'd worry it will just turn into years more of promises and reports and no action as usual.

Frostybrew wrote: »

The goal for Cork is to avoid the expensive mistakes (underinvesting in public transport) that Dublin has made.

Cork has already been making that mistake for decades. Dublin actually has very high public transport usage, Cork is ridiculously low.

Frostybrew · 30-01-2018 8:38pm

bk wrote: »

I agree, it is very impressive. But it needs to get started. Their is little evidence of even a sniff of it getting started unfortunately. It is pretty pie in the sky stuff at the moment.

The docklands has started though. Beginning in 2005 with the Clarion redevelopment, and the Elysian in 2008; along with smaller office developments on Monaghan road. These are all part of the original 2001 masterplan announcement. You also now have One Albert Quay and Navigation House with the redeveloped PUC and Marina Park. All of this will require a viable rapid transit solution.

bk wrote: »

Interesting, though might turn into a white elephant or never get off the ground.

Great if it does happen, but I'd worry it will just turn into years more of promises and reports and no action as usual.

Cork has already been making that mistake for decades. Dublin actually has very high public transport usage, Cork is ridiculously low.

It's not a Cork mistake though. Both councils have been crying out for investment in public transport since the 70s, but have little political power or financial resources to make it happen. Central government is at fault here.

Luckily we now have a crisis which looks like having an impact for the better, at least as far as public transport provision in Cork is concerned. Let's just hope the powers that be don't end up going for a cut price solution which will end up costing the city more than half a billion euro in the long term.

man98 · 30-01-2018 10:09pm

But the issue with Cork's public transport is that no one uses it because it's cripplingly slow, due to a lack of leap cards. I rarely use Cork City PT any more as I live in the centre but there's times I've been on the 208 and there'd be 3 double decker buses which leave Bishopstown and repeatedly pass each other out, and by the city centre they become quite full. Even at midday this was happening. The time buses spend stopped and giving out tickets is much more than trams. While leap cards can cut this, they cannot eliminate this. LRT can give the same 10 minute service, could go contra flow on one way systems, it's much easier to put preferential signalling in place. I think LRT is what Cork needs to start its culture change. CIT, Bishopstown, UCC, the centre, the docks, Mahon and Douglas could easily be connected with a fast and semi frequent service - this is ideally speaking. As pointed out above, we settle for sub par transport rather than providing for our future in Ireland time and time again, so we're unlikely to see improvement any time soon.

namloc1980 · 30-01-2018 10:40pm

man98 wrote: »

But the issue with Cork's public transport is that no one uses it because it's cripplingly slow, due to a lack of leap cards.

Every bus is equipped for Leap cards. There is no lack of Leap cards. A huge issue is that people prefer to use change/cash for unknown reasons. Perhaps they simply don't know what they are or are unaware that Leap fares are 30% cheaper than cash, I don't know.

The fact you can pay a city bus fare in Cork with a €20 note is ridiculous. The amount of wasted time where a driver is counting out change makes the bus less efficient. Cork missed a huge opportunity recently when the NTA made city and suburbs one single bus zone but went with the ludicrous decision of introducing stage fares. So even with Leap there is driver interaction instead of having a reader that everyone could tap on.

pigtown · 30-01-2018 11:17pm

The feasibility report found that there is enough demand for BRT between the docks and Ballincollig. The section between the docks and Mahon isn't near the required density to make it viable, and the zoning for the area wasn't enough to grow it to the required density either. Even with population growth out to 2030 (20 years from when the report was compiled) wouldn't be enough to justify the cost of Light Rail.

man98 · 31-01-2018 1:08am

namloc1980 wrote: »

Every bus is equipped for Leap cards. There is no lack of Leap cards. A huge issue is that people prefer to use change/cash for unknown reasons. Perhaps they simply don't know what they are or are unaware that Leap fares are 30% cheaper than cash, I don't know.

The fact you can pay a city bus fare in Cork with a €20 note is ridiculous. The amount of wasted time where a driver is counting out change makes the bus less efficient. Cork missed a huge opportunity recently when the NTA made city and suburbs one single bus zone but went with the ludicrous decision of introducing stage fares. So even with Leap there is driver interaction instead of having a reader that everyone could tap on.

To clarify, that's what I meant in my post. on Dublin Bus journeys are so much faster as passengers can get on quicker. That said, there's many problems with Cork leap fares on buses. There needs to be a coherent outer suburban pricing structure.

L1011 · 31-01-2018 1:21am

That Dublin Bus boarding, with its interminable delays caused by ticketing machines running on hardware older than many posters here, can be 'much faster' than anywhere else is shocking.

The TGX150 they use came on the market in 2000, with much much older hardware inside. I can't find the spec document for them anymore as Parkeon have removed it and the only result for the model number is on their heritage page! They must still make them, or else they're just relying on old stock from having had more buses in the past for spares and new vehicles.

It takes multiple seconds to do a single smart card read at the side validator and many more to mode-switch and complete a transaction of a different type to the previous one at the drivers terminal.

Idbatterim · 31-01-2018 10:34am

Frostybrew wrote: »

The rail transit study found that this is not the case. With the development of the Docklands LRT will be a necessary.

The N25 from Midleton is currently the busiest radial route into Cork city and is approaching capacity for a four lane motorway. It serves the commuting towns of Cobh, Glounthaune, Carrigtohill, and Midleton, a combined population of approximately 30,000. The Little Island area, a large industrial estate on the outskirts of Cork just off the N25, supports 8000 workers.

To put all of this in context. The docklands development will add a population of 30,000 and 40,000 jobs, the equivalent of five Little Island Industrial Estates, plus Cobh, Midleton, Carrigtohill, and Glounthaune into a relatively small geographically restricted area.

The new development will need a radical, robust, and progressive transport solution.

How exactly do you expect to do this with buses? It's simply not possible.

I strongly assume a lot of the people working in these offices will live in the nearby apartments. Can walk or cycle to work. I.e. Sustainable living ...

TheChizler · 31-01-2018 10:41am

man98 wrote: »

The time buses spend stopped and giving out tickets is much more than trams. While leap cards can cut this, they cannot eliminate this. LRT can give the same 10 minute service, could go contra flow on one way systems, it's much easier to put preferential signalling in place.

No reason off-board ticketing or contra-flow on dedicated lanes couldn't be done with BRT, it's the standard in many places.

cgcsb · 31-01-2018 11:29am

bk wrote: »

Well if you would like to give us a more scientific analysis, please do! :mad:

The 202 is one of the busiest routes in Cork, yet, I'm certain it wouldn't even break the top 30 routes in Dublin. Thus suggesting spending 1 billion replacing it seems to be pretty pre-mature!

But again Cork still has a huge % of Car commuters coming into the city so the demand for bus transport is artificially suppressed by the excessive provision of road space for cars. Over the coming years road space for cars will be whipped out fairly rapidly and people will still need to get around. 2018 will prove this for Dublin. College Green will be closed, cars will be taken off the north quays, and no doubt arnotts car park will be sold on and redeveloped, you think Dublin Buses are packed now, wait until there is no other alternative. :eek:

Frostybrew · 31-01-2018 11:32am

Idbatterim wrote: »

I strongly assume a lot of the people working in these offices will live in the nearby apartments. Can walk or cycle to work. I.e. Sustainable living ...

On paper yes. In reality? To date it's been offices for about 6000 workers, 244 apartments, and a football stadium. The apartments were kept off the market for about 8 years until rents increased to a level that could generate massive profits.

I expect this situation to continue.

draiochtanois · 31-01-2018 11:37am

This post has been deleted.

namloc1980 · 31-01-2018 2:07pm

man98 wrote: »

To clarify, that's what I meant in my post. on Dublin Bus journeys are so much faster as passengers can get on quicker. That said, there's many problems with Cork leap fares on buses. There needs to be a coherent outer suburban pricing structure.

A single flat fare for the city and suburbs should have been implemented. Upgrade the readers on the buses and stick it by the door. Allow an interim changeover period of 6 months for people to move from cash to leap card. During the interim increase the cash fare to say €4 to encourage people to take up leap card. After that interim period no cash accepted on buses, Leap only like Oyster in London. This would massively improve dwell times and the bus experience, for a relatively modest investment.

snotboogie · 01-02-2018 12:02am

bk wrote: »

Well if you would like to give us a more scientific analysis, please do! :mad:

The 202 is one of the busiest routes in Cork, yet, I'm certain it wouldn't even break the top 30 routes in Dublin. Thus suggesting spending 1 billion replacing it seems to be pretty pre-mature!

And I will point you to Cork City Councils own report which clearly doesn't find enough demand for LRT.

I agree, it is very impressive. But it needs to get started. Their is little evidence of even a sniff of it getting started unfortunately. It is pretty pie in the sky stuff at the moment.

The docklands is hardly pie in the sky! The biggest office block in Cork opened there last year, there is an office block twice the size under construction and another block twice the size again (along with apartments and a hotel) with a planning decision due next month. Cork City Council are releasing a separate plan for further development this summer (with possible BRT). There is also the 40 storey proposal.....

bk · 01-02-2018 3:07pm

L1011 wrote: »

That Dublin Bus boarding, with its interminable delays caused by ticketing machines running on hardware older than many posters here, can be 'much faster' than anywhere else is shocking.

And believe it or not, it is somehow even worse in Cork!

They use the same old TX150 machines, but there seems to be some issue which causes it to take twice as long to issue a ticket then it does in Dublin! There seems to be some issue where the driver has to wait and click two different buttons:

- Place card on reader
- Wait for reader to not find a ticket
- Driver prsses a button to clear something
- We both wait
- Driver can now press a second button to buy the ticket.

VERY SLOW.

And then there is the fact that there is no right hand validator. So everyone one has to interact with the driver, even if you have a monthly pass, etc.

And the worst thing about this idiotic setup is that Cork basically has a flat fare! So everyone could just tag on at a right hand validator if it was there.

A complete mess.

snotboogie wrote: »

The docklands is hardly pie in the sky! The biggest office block in Cork opened there last year, there is an office block twice the size under construction and another block twice the size again (along with apartments and a hotel) with a planning decision due next month. Cork City Council are releasing a separate plan for further development this summer (with possible BRT). There is also the 40 storey proposal.....

I very much look forward to it. But so far most of the development has been incredibly slow and very much held up.

snotboogie · 01-02-2018 3:11pm

bk wrote: »

I very much look forward to it. But so far most of the development has been incredibly slow and very much held up.

No they haven't; One Albert Quay and Navigation Square flew threw planning and started as soon as it was granted. Along with the Capitol, they have been the two most efficiently implemented major projects I've ever seen in Cork. Horgan's Quay seems to be going in the same direction.

bk · 01-02-2018 3:25pm

snotboogie wrote: »

No they haven't; One Albert Quay and Navigation Square flew threw planning and started as soon as it was granted. Along with the Capitol, they have been the two most efficiently implemented major projects I've ever seen in Cork. Horgan's Quay seems to be going in the same direction.

I suppose I don't consider Albert Quay and The Elysian to be the real Docklands development that people are talking about here. They are almost right next to the city center after all.

More Horgans Quay and the South Docks area, that is what is needed to really develop Cork and give us BRT, etc.

Great to hear that Horgans Quay is finally getting off the ground.

And BTW yes all this development was badly held up by the recession, it was supposed to have been done by now. We are only starting to get back to it slowly now.

snotboogie · 01-02-2018 3:46pm

bk wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

No they haven't; One Albert Quay and Navigation Square flew threw planning and started as soon as it was granted. Along with the Capitol, they have been the two most efficiently implemented major projects I've ever seen in Cork. Horgan's Quay seems to be going in the same direction.

I suppose I don't consider Albert Quay and The Elysian to be the real Docklands development that people are talking about here. They are almost right next to the city center after all.

More Horgans Quay and the South Docks area, that is what is needed to really develop Cork and give us BRT, etc.

Great to hear that Horgans Quay is finally getting off the ground.

And BTW yes all this development was badly held up by the recession, it was supposed to have been done by now. We are only starting to get back to it slowly now.

I wouldn't really count the Elyssian either, One Albert Quay is the docklands though. The pre recession proposals are done and will never be realized. There has been more done post recession than pre recession, it seems like lessons were learned. I think that Horgan's Quay is the make or break development for the whole area (a lot more so than the 40 storey), if that goes to plan it will genuinely transform the docklands.

Idbatterim · 01-02-2018 4:50pm

there is this talk of a counterpoint to Dublin, they only city that could be, because it is the only town or "city" of any size, other than Dublin, would be Cork. I hope they are a hell of a lot more ambitious with their docklands in terms of density and architecture than dublin is / was. Then again, thats another government and planning agenda...

cgcsb · 01-02-2018 4:57pm

I really hope that Cork get's it's 40 storey, a shiney new docklands to go with it, a new Kent Station quarter, a luas line and 2 or 3 BRT routes
and all the trimmings. I say that as a Dub, we need to urbanise this country and that's only possible when the Cities are livable.

Idbatterim · 01-02-2018 7:24pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I really hope that Cork get's it's 40 storey, a shiney new docklands to go with it, a new Kent Station quarter, a luas line and 2 or 3 BRT routes
and all the trimmings. I say that as a Dub, we need to urbanise this country and that's only possible when the Cities are livable.

I find the forty floor thing interesting, developers in dublin have mentioned the issues with height and the increased cost of going up, which makes sense to a point. How in gods name will 40 floors be viable in cork, if the lands prices and rents are a joke compared to dublin and dublin developers wont build them?

01-02-2018 7:40pm

In terms of docklands development, Belfast have the right idea. A 30 year development plan with it all laid out for anyone to review and offer changes on upcoming parts of it

EnzoScifo · 02-02-2018 12:24am

There is a tender out for a Docklands area-based transport assessment

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=124540

marno21 · 02-02-2018 1:06am

cgcsb wrote: »

I really hope that Cork get's it's 40 storey, a shiney new docklands to go with it, a new Kent Station quarter, a luas line and 2 or 3 BRT routes
and all the trimmings. I say that as a Dub, we need to urbanise this country and that's only possible when the Cities are livable.

There is already a wolfpack of fruitcakes coming out with a petition against the 40 storey tower.

Of course there will be no petition for those that support it because Cork media loves these ****ing NIMBYs

I was up in Shanakiel today and there is a fine view of the city near the old Shanakiel Hospital. The only building proudly standing up tall is the Elysian, with a backdrop of derelict industrial units. This could be oh so different and so vibrant, but no. More houses in Glanmire and Carrigaline and more jobs in Mahon. Lets see how much of a carpark we can turn the N40 into.

Markcheese · 02-02-2018 12:23pm

The plans are there for BRT or light rail, the docklands is happening.... And the elysian sets a height so it's not going to be low rise...
40 odd stories is "ambitious" and as such it will have to jump through planning hoops but if bord pleanala agree with it it'll go ahead nimbys, be damned...
A better current public transport plan is needed for Cork though, not to rely on future plans that could take years to come through.....

cgcsb · 02-02-2018 2:45pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

I find the forty floor thing interesting, developers in dublin have mentioned the issues with height and the increased cost of going up, which makes sense to a point. How in gods name will 40 floors be viable in cork, if the lands prices and rents are a joke compared to dublin and dublin developers wont build them?

The Irish Georgian Society and David Norris are based in Dublin, the source of much of the 'cost'. But Is suspect the 40 storey proposal is something being floated so that the developer may build a 20 storey.

cgcsb · 02-02-2018 2:48pm

I think the 40 storey would be great for Cork it'd become a Cork symbol like the Bridge in Waterford or the Spire in Dublin. A real icon in a great location at the maritime entrance to the City Centre where the Lee parts. But alas it's an uphill battle to get it built.

bk · 02-02-2018 10:52pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The Irish Georgian Society and David Norris are based in Dublin, the source of much of the 'cost'. But Is suspect the 40 storey proposal is something being floated so that the developer may build a 20 storey.

Sure, but maybe they will squeeze 30 floors out of it. Would be great for the whole country as it might embarrass Dublin into going high too.

cgcsb · 05-02-2018 11:12am

bk wrote: »

Sure, but maybe they will squeeze 30 floors out of it. Would be great for the whole country as it might embarrass Dublin into going high too.

Between Capital Dock, The Exo, Boland's Quay, Tara St Tower (decision due shortly) and the high rises promised for poolbeg west SDZ, I think Dublin will advance to the point where mid rises are quite common, at least to the East of the City Centre, there'll be more of a battle to the west with the James' Gate Quarter and Grangegorman.

Skedaddle · 07-02-2018 3:44pm

You'd think Dublin actually had a skyline in the first place the way people go on. It's actually a very unambitious looking city with a few Georgian set pieces and a lot of ugly buildings that seem to have no desire to do anything statement making.

Also given Cork's setting, a 40 story tower won't look put of place at all. It's a city with huge hills and many structures are already taller than that due to the landscape.

Also there's a bloody hideous looking semi derelict ESB power station almost in the city centre just down at the top of the marina with a huge tower (stack) and big ugly pylons strung down to it across one of the best views in the city. That power line dates back to the 1950s but it is a hideous eyesore and cuts right across Mayfield and Montenotte actually over the top of an otherwise really pretty urban landscape as it comes down into the port! It's literally a monstrosity.

A tall residential tower would look great in comparison. Can we perhaps focus on getting rid of and rehabilitating the post industrial mess along the Marina as a key environmental issue and stop trying to hamper what could be very nice looking developments near by!

A modern tower in Cork isn't a threat to the city's landscape - the dereliction along the Marina absolute is. I walked Centre Park Road recently and it would nearly cause you to become depressed. it's the definition of an industrial wasteland. It's even worse since storm Ophelia demolished large numbers of trees, which are incidentally still not fully cleared up. The stumps are lying there months and moths after the event and the state of the paving is just spectacularly bad.

Cork's a nice city be please, please, clean that area up! It's an absolute disgrace.

09-02-2018 10:43am

Serious question, how would a light rail system work when you consider how many hills there are in Cork City

namloc1980 · 09-02-2018 10:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

Serious question, how would a light rail system work when you consider how many hills there are in Cork City

The east west axis of the city where a proposed corridor would run is flat as it's the floor of the Lee Valley.

hans aus dtschl · 09-02-2018 1:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Serious question, how would a light rail system work when you consider how many hills there are in Cork City

The general idea would be to use some of the many legacy rail or light rail alignments. The Muskerry and Passage light rail, The Electric Tramways light rail or the Macroom rail.
Together, they covered Douglas, Tivoli, Western Road, Blackpool, St Lukes, Blackrock/Mahon, Ballincollig...

The biggest challenges are political rather than technical: displacing cars for instance, and there isn't great appetite in the Blackrock area for the old alignment to be used for mass transport. The current greenway is very popular.

zetalambda · 09-02-2018 1:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Serious question, how would a light rail system work when you consider how many hills there are in Cork City

Obviously, you'd need to install train elevators at the base of any hill. Alternatively, a lower cost solution would be to attach giant helium balloons which could be inflated and deflated on a whim allowing you to float up and down the hills.

Skedaddle · 09-02-2018 1:47pm

There are light rail systems that can deal with hills. Cork had one 100 years ago. You just have a slightly different wheel design and special tracks on the hilly bits. Or, you can uae rubber wheels.

Sam Russell · 09-02-2018 2:59pm

Mod:

zetalambda wrote: »

Obviously, you'd need to install train elevators at the base of any hill. Alternatively, a lower cost solution would be to attach giant helium balloons which could be inflated and deflated on a whim allowing you to float up and down the hills.

Answering a serious question with a joke is not very funny.

blanch152 · 13-02-2018 5:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Serious question, how would a light rail system work when you consider how many hills there are in Cork City

Heuston to James on the Red Line in Dublin has quite a steep gradient.

Carawaystick · 16-02-2018 12:48am

blanch152 wrote: »

Heuston to James on the Red Line in Dublin has quite a steep gradient.

Come back to me with your steep, when you cycle from Old Youghal Road to Fairfield, boy.

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:42am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

According to the Indo a light rail system for Cork is in the new Capital Plan to be published tomorrow.

Is it too early to get excited?

namloc1980 · 16-02-2018 1:17pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

According to the Indo a light rail system for Cork is in the new Capital Plan to be published tomorrow.

Is it too early to get excited?

Yeah. According to the Echo what's being announced is a feasibility study. We have one of those already from 2010 gathering dust in City Hall.

snotboogie · 16-02-2018 1:21pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

According to the Indo a light rail system for Cork is in the new Capital Plan to be published tomorrow.

Is it too early to get excited?

Yeah. According to the Echo what's being announced is a feasibility study. We have one of those already from 2010 gathering dust in City Hall.

There is one underway as we speak, being released in June as a part of the Docklands development plan. I guess that this will commit funding to the result, be that BRT or Light Rail. we'll see at 2pm I guess.

markodaly · 16-02-2018 8:24pm

snotboogie wrote: »

There is one underway as we speak, being released in June as a part of the Docklands development plan. I guess that this will commit funding to the result, be that BRT or Light Rail. we'll see at 2pm I guess.

Anymore details on this plan. It has been announced but are they going back to the drawing board, yet again?

Skedaddle · 26-02-2018 3:08pm

It'll take a while to come up with a plan. It's hardly surprising they're throwing out ideas and concepts. They're really only at the very preliminary stages of developing a plan.

BRT may be more practical on the Northside because of the very steep hills. But bear in mind the southside isn't exactly flat either. Getting to Carrigaline for example would require some degree of hill climbing or rerouting.

Tbh whether it's running on metal wheels or tyres is irrelevant as long as the user experience, capacity and frequency is the same.

snotboogie · 26-02-2018 3:17pm

markodaly wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

There is one underway as we speak, being released in June as a part of the Docklands development plan. I guess that this will commit funding to the result, be that BRT or Light Rail. we'll see at 2pm I guess.

Anymore details on this plan. It has been announced but are they going back to the drawing board, yet again?

It seems to be the 2040 plan piggybacking on or committing to (whichever way you want to look at it) the existing study

Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

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