Landlord using tenants address for his post.

rocjohn · 06-01-2019 1:21am #1

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Fol20 · 06-01-2019 1:29am

What is doing to make you think he will get violent?

How about if you just store hisnpost in a box in the hallway. Arrange a time every few months, he collects it and you dont exchange any words?

The only reason why i think someone would insist on something like this is if the ll doesnt have a permanent address themself or their using rent a room to avoid taxes. Others might have other ideas however thats all i can think of. You could also just not answer the door a few times if hes popping over too much to your house.

Graham · 06-01-2019 1:44am

OP I'm not sure what you're hoping to be told other than the obvious.

If you fear for your safety, talk to the Gardai.
To get your tenancy registered talk to the RTB.
Either give the post to your landlord or return it all to sender.

A bunch of randoms on the internet are unlikely to enlighten you as to the reasons why landlord and family are having their post sent to your address.

I can't imagine the occasional envelope infringes on your exclusive use. Calling unannounced could potentially be infringing on your peaceful enjoyment. Talk to the RTB.

UpTheSlashers · 06-01-2019 10:43am

rocjohn wrote: »

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Register with RTB, and report him every time he comes to the house unannounced.

Absolutely unacceptable behaviour from LL, but unfortunately not an uncommon mindset among them.

LotharIngum · 06-01-2019 11:08am

rocjohn wrote: »

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Have you 4 years part 4 or 6 years part 4?

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 11:12am

Have you got a rental agreement with this person? Whose name is on the utility bills? Is he possibly availing of the "rent a room" scheme?People have been known to do this while actually staying with a partner(for example) themselves and spending little or no time at home.

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 11:26am

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

davo2001 · 06-01-2019 11:34am

tvjunki wrote: »

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

Hi Mr Landlord

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 11:41am

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi Mr Landlord

In the process of becoming an x landlord.

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 11:51am

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi Mr Landlord

Thoroughly agree with this approach, whatever the agreement may be. There is nothing to be gained by confrontation. However I would be curious about the non-registration with the PRTB. Most unusual!That would suggest that this might be a rent a room situation. Maybe the property owner is staying with his parents because they need care, as suggested above. There could be many reasons. The name on the utility bills would be highly significant here. I think the renters need to establish what status they hold there.

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 11:55am

LotharIngum wrote: »

Have you 4 years part 4 or 6 years part 4?

6years part 4 started in Dec 2016 so they are in 4 year cycle.

Op tread carefully as you may get notice the landlord is not renewing to a further part 4......

Grumpypants · 06-01-2019 12:00pm

The only reason for the landlord not to register is to avoid paying tax. Not just rent a room, I would go as far as to say he is still registered at that address and is pretending it's not rented at all and is prob claiming some welfare payment too if you are getting those letters.

Call the PRTB and register yourself as the tenant to protect your rights. Then call and report suspected fraud to revenue and social protection.

I'm sick of subsidising these clowns.

mikemac2 · 06-01-2019 12:01pm

The landlord is threatening and shows up unannounced demanding post. They are described as menacing

The OP is told nothing is gained by confrontation and to be nice about it

The Christians are here on Sunday morning I see

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 12:01pm

OSI wrote: »

Bull****. Revenue and Social Welfare are everyones concern.

Revene and social welfare are not stupid.

The owners could be paying tax on the property being rented out. People are assuming they are not paying tax or they are doing something shady.

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 12:06pm

If this property owner has not registered with the PRTB he should have done so(given that this is a normal tenancy, and not a rent a room situation). However, his attitude as described would indicate that he might not bother continuing to let his property if there is any hassle. He could decide to return to it or to sell it. If the renters are interested in staying there they should cooperate concerning the post.

LotharIngum · 06-01-2019 12:07pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

The only reason for the landlord not to register is to avoid paying tax. Not just rent a room, I would go as far as to say he is still registered at that address and is pretending it's not rented at all and is prob claiming some welfare payment too if you are getting those letters.

Call the PRTB and register yourself as the tenant to protect your rights. Then call and report suspected fraud to revenue and social protection.

I'm sick of subsidising these clowns.

Ive been accused of not registering tenants.
I was also accused of registering them late.

They got very, very aggressive one day about something trivial and started accusing me of avoiding tax and of not registering them with the RTB because they looked it up.
Then when I advised them to go talk to the RTB and stop annoying me about it they lodged a complaint with the RTB.

It turned out that the registration was just not updated on the RTB website.
And even when the RTB sent letter out confirming the registration they had the date registered as the date the letters were sent. I got a call with another earful from the tenant.

They were very hard work to be honest.

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 12:11pm

LotharIngum wrote: »

Ive been accused of not registering tenants.
I was also accused of registering them late.

They got very, very aggressive one day about something trivial and started accusing me of avoiding tax and of not registering them with the RTB because they looked it up.
Then when I advised them to go talk to the RTB and stop annoying me about it they lodged a complaint with the RTB.

It turned out that the registration was just not updated on the RTB website.
And even when the RTB sent letter out confirming the registration they had the date registered as the date the letters were sent. I got a call with another earful from the tenant.

They were very hard work to be honest.

Same here. Registered one tenancy, money taken for fees and no letter confirming tenancy. The rtb website is not updated straight away.

Avatar MIA · 06-01-2019 12:12pm

rocjohn wrote:

Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal.

Your wife had a panic attack and you fear physical harm - Why are you still there? Is the rent you are paying considerably cheaper than elsewhere?

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 12:13pm

Only a very foolish property owner would fail to register a tenancy. That is why I raised the question of what the actual accommodation agreement consisted of. Clearly is is a legal tenancy. The renters have every right to seek landlord registration, if that has not been done.

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 12:16pm

This sounds like a property owner who wants to get out of the business.

Grumpypants · 06-01-2019 12:19pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Revene and social welfare are not stupid.

The owners could be paying tax on the property being rented out. People are assuming they are not paying tax or they are doing something shady.

They are doing something shady, they are refusing to allow their tenants enjoy their home in peace.

I can't think of any legitimate reason to bully your tenant into collecting your post other than it being something shady. If they can call to the house they are living local so should update the postal address.

belfe · 06-01-2019 12:22pm

Also, if the landlord claims that he is living there, and he can use the post as proof of address, you are a licensee and not a tenant.

I'd start to look for a new house immediately and leave as soon as possible.

06-01-2019 12:23pm

Put a post box on wall outside property. Give landlord the keys. Put all his post into post box. Now he’s no reason to enter property.

06-01-2019 12:26pm

I can’t understand why it’s an issue to leave the letters aside it’s totally effortless. Anyone who has lived in house shares will be well used to a constant stream of letters from current, previous tenants and the LL and it never bothered me in the slightest to throw them aside.

Garibaldi? · 06-01-2019 12:27pm

belfe wrote: »

Also, if the landlord claims that he is living there, and he can use the post as proof of address, you are a licensee and not a tenant.

I'd start to look for a new house immediately and leave as soon as possible.

That is exactly what I thought when I read the post, Belfe. This property owner's approach suggests that he does not have a tenancy agreement with the people on his property.

LotharIngum · 06-01-2019 12:36pm

Garibaldi? wrote: »

This sounds like a property owner who wants to get out of the business.

I don't think there are many who don't want to get out of the business at this stage to be fair. The last one I met who wanted to stay in the business was last September. I might meet up for a pint during the week just out of curiosity to see if he is still of the same opinion, no, just out of sheer nosiness

Achasanai · 06-01-2019 12:48pm

tvjunki wrote: »

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

The landlord sounds aggressive (of course we're only hearing the one side) but regardless, any tenant has a right not to be disturbed in their home by the landlord. That includes calling looking for post, but particularly calling unannounced. Unacceptable.

Also, I would repeat other posters suggesting that you register the tenancy with the relevant bodies.

Caranica · 06-01-2019 12:57pm

Start randomly marking items "not at this address" and returning to sender. Not everything, maybe 1 in 5/10. There's nothing deceitful, the landlord does not live at that address.

rocjohn · 06-01-2019 1:08pm

from reading the rtb website ,registration of a tenancy implies state registration of a home address as the site goes onto explain that without registration there may be problems claiming tax refunds,mortgage approval etc .
I interpreted ( I may be wrong ,its just my reading of what is written by rtb) this to mean that without registration a renter is not officially domiciled in the state and somebody else,in this case the property owner is actually living there.

The landlord had apparently lived in the apartment before we moved in .There was no one present when we viewed it other than the agent. The landlords parents have a property abroad where they live and according to them were involved in the property business and have other properties let out in Dublin.They apparently were using the landlords address for their post before we rented.They do not have any health issues as far as I am aware ( as suggested by one poster) that would necessitate them using our address.

We signed a one year standard lease,following which we attained part 4 rights.We would have moved out two years ago after one particular encounter in the apartment .I made a statement to the Guards that night,but decided not to lodge an official complaint in the hope things got better and because of the extremely tough rental situation.We rented the apartment at slightly above the market rate in the area at the time.
We have paid the rent in full and on time and have always promptly reported any maintenance issues to the landlord.

LotharIngum · 06-01-2019 1:13pm

rocjohn wrote: »

from reading the rtb website ,registration of a tenancy implies state registration of a home address as the site goes onto explain that without registration there may be problems claiming tax refunds,mortgage approval etc .
I interpreted ( I may be wrong ,its just my reading of what is written by rtb) this to mean that without registration a renter is not officially domiciled in the state and somebody else,in this case the property owner is actually living there.

The landlord had apparently lived in the apartment before we moved in .There was no one present when we viewed it other than the agent. The landlords parents have a property abroad where they live and according to them were involved in the property business and have other properties let out in Dublin.They apparently were using the landlords address for their post before we rented.They do not have any health issues as far as I am aware ( as suggested by one poster) that would necessitate them using our address.

We signed a one year standard lease,following which we attained part 4 rights.We would have moved out two years ago after one particular encounter in the apartment .I made a statement to the Guards that night,but decided not to lodge an official complaint in the hope things got better and because of the extremely tough rental situation.We rented the apartment at slightly above the market rate in the area at the time.
We have paid the rent in full and on time and have always promptly reported any maintenance issues to the landlord.

This doesn't sound like a simple issue of someone collecting post anymore.
It sounds like there is something more going on between yourself and your landlord.
If somebodies behavior is such that you are afraid of being assaulted then its a matter for the Gardaí. Report it. Let the Gardaí deal with it. And move out of the situation.

tvjunki · 06-01-2019 1:22pm

Caranica wrote: »

Start randomly marking items "not at this address" and returning to sender. Not everything, maybe 1 in 5/10. There's nothing deceitful, the landlord does not live at that address

That is not right. Op will end up without a home.

Landlord using tenants address for his post.

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