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Property Market 2020

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    #182
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    snotboogie wrote: »
    There are massive drawbacks you are not mentioning. There is a guy in my office in Cork who moved out of the suburbs to a McMansion with big land and he is massively struggling. Kids school, wife's work and his work are all in different areas of the city, so not only are they commuting into the city, they are also commuting across the city. He commutes over an hour each way every day which is mental for a city the size of Cork. He can't go for a few drinks unless he prebooks a 50e taxi home. Kids want to meet their friends, 20 minutes each way in the car, kids have activities, 30 minutes each way in the car, want to go shopping, 20 minutes each way in the car. All on top of the 2 hour round trip commute every weekday. It's exhausting. McMansions may seem great in your 30's but if you have kids they become a lot less appealing. In old age they will also make services much harder to reach, especially if you have reduced mobility. On top of that you're locked in. It's going to be far easier to sell a house even in the worst estates of Dublin or Cork than it is going to be to sell your bespoke one off house in the middle of nowhere.

    I think in a broader sence Ireland is trending towards urbanisation and services and investment will increasingly reflect this. Rural broadband may be the last major investment in rural Ireland.

    See that guy just planned poorly, Theres many people buy houses in rural communities but nearish villages that their kids go to school in and socialise in that are 10 minutes drive away, as the kids get older they can cycle to school or to meet friends. Similar to moving to a commuter town and still keeping your life in the city, your mate has bought into a house, not a community and is paying the price for it.

    also I don't know why the term 'mcmansion' keeps being used anywhere aside from some border counties and maybe a handful of other examples , most people are moving to 2100sq ft 4 bed dormers which are hardly 'mcmansions'


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    #183
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    were a bunch of posts just deleted?


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    #184
    tobsey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭tobsey


    old_house wrote: »
    I'd say if you had to sell your house today for your estimated price of 300k and you still had to pay back 280k of outstanding mortgage than you would be left with 20k. So you effectively paid 100k (120k paid less 20k equity) for 12 years of living in the house. Depending on the area that's not even a bad deal compared to current rents...

    You’re forgetting interest though. Probably 80-100k interest paid also has to be counted.


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    #185
    old_house
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭old_house


    tobsey wrote: »
    You’re forgetting interest though. Probably 80-100k interest paid also has to be counted.

    True. An there would have been other costs as well, like insurance and property tax and all the stuff that would otherwise have been replaced and paid for by the landlord. It might take quite a while longer before the numbers will turn green on that one.


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    #186
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    several off-topic posts have been moved to another thread


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    #187
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    fret_wimp2 wrote: »
    An estate house might not be for you, thats fine, but it suits plenty. A country house might be for you but it also might not be for everyone. you might like a new build, or you might rather an older house with a larger garden. good for you, do what suits you, but stop pissing on everything different from the specific scenario that you want.**

    **the You applies to anyone reading/posting in the thread.
    While I'd usually agree with the "live and let live" behind your post, but there's a massive issue with our one off housing in Ireland: the rest of us have to subsidise it.

    Providing essential services to all those escaping to their half acre a few miles outside the nearest town is far, far more expensive than it is to provide them to those living in apartments in urban centres or housing estates in the suburbs and rather than factoring this into our property tax system (probably easiest done by basing it on the size of the property's boundary or square footage of an apartment) we've gone the other way and actually charge them less property tax (by basing it on valuation alone)!


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    #188
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    Sleepy wrote: »
    While I'd usually agree with the "live and let live" behind your post, but there's a massive issue with our one off housing in Ireland: the rest of us have to subsidise it.

    Providing essential services to all those escaping to their half acre a few miles outside the nearest town is far, far more expensive than it is to provide them to those living in apartments in urban centres or housing estates in the suburbs and rather than factoring this into our property tax system (probably easiest done by basing it on the size of the property's boundary or square footage of an apartment) we've gone the other way and actually charge them less property tax (by basing it on valuation alone)!


    You have a valid argument, however based on previously deleted posts, I think property taxation and its relative fairness is outside the scope of the Property market 2020 thread.

    The context which urban vs rural is usually brought up in here is "country living sucks because of x,y,x", "no urban living sucks because of these other completely subjective reasons", reasons being things such as "i dont like the look of" and "no soul".

    My post was to highlight this so a more objective discussion can be had.


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    #189
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ebayissues


    Guys, how do you know search construction works near a property? Across a house I'm looking at, there seem to be construction works going on, I'm not sure if it's renovation or something else.


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    #190
    sweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 9,791 ✭✭✭sweetie


    rosmoke wrote: »
    you seem to be a lovely neighbour, hope you don't also stare into their bedroom window

    Think you've the wrong end of the stick


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    #191
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ebayissues


    rosmoke wrote: »
    hope you don't also stare into their bedroom window

    I'm not a neighbor, I'm interested in purchasing the house.


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    #192
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Sleepy wrote: »
    While I'd usually agree with the "live and let live" behind your post, but there's a massive issue with our one off housing in Ireland: the rest of us have to subsidise it.

    Providing essential services to all those escaping to their half acre a few miles outside the nearest town is far, far more expensive than it is to provide them to those living in apartments in urban centres or housing estates in the suburbs and rather than factoring this into our property tax system (probably easiest done by basing it on the size of the property's boundary or square footage of an apartment) we've gone the other way and actually charge them less property tax (by basing it on valuation alone)!

    most one off housing I know is along established roads that need maintenance anyway, or down a private road with a few properties along off a main road, have their own sewer and mains water and sure the ESB is a private company effectively. I really don't see this argument of how it costs more.


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    #193
    accensi0n
    Registered Users Posts: 2,739 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    ebayissues wrote: »
    Guys, how do you know search construction works near a property? Across a house I'm looking at, there seem to be construction works going on, I'm not sure if it's renovation or something else.

    Could try a PP search.

    For example, here's the map search link for DLR in Dublin:
    https://dlrcocouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=af21eeb123224c4c877f410139ed1e69


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    #194
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    most one off housing I know is along established roads that need maintenance anyway, or down a private road with a few properties along off a main road, have their own sewer and mains water and sure the ESB is a private company effectively. I really don't see this argument of how it costs more.

    Most one of housing you know isn't most one off housing.

    Head off into the country and you'll see plenty of houses half up mountains, spread 500m apart.


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    #195
    tazdustdevil
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭tazdustdevil


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Frightening and depressing in equal measure.


    Agreed. Happened to me with a one bed private sale 2006 apt. I’m prepared to eat the loss of €50k deposit + additional €80k loss. Place is now effectively a council estate. Offered it to dcc and they refused to buy on the grounds that they have exceeded their quota which I reckon is more than 50% at this stage.


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    #196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Most one of housing you know isn't most one off housing.

    Head off into the country and you'll see plenty of houses half up mountains, spread 500m apart.

    You do know when you build a house you have to pay to get your services connected?
    The esb don't go putting in poles for free.
    I pay my taxes and don't have access to the public sewer.I pay to maintain my own.Same with water.
    So I am actually subsidising you.


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    #197
    davedub2015
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭davedub2015


    Election date being announced today will it have any impact on the property market the next few weeks??
    Been at a few house viewings this month and its busy as ive seen it in a few months...


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    #198
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    This is the busy season.


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    #199
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ebayissues


    Quick question guys, when do you pay a holding deposit? I'd thought it would be before I've had a surveyor in the property....not after when offer was accepted.


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    #200
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    davedub2015 wrote: »
    Election date being announced today will it have any impact on the property market the next few weeks??
    Been at a few house viewings this month and its busy as ive seen it in a few months...

    February 8 (Saturday) is the date of the GE, just released. Let the smear and spoof campaigns commence!

    Institutional investors will be watching the results very carefully and if FG are likely to not be in government then I think this would worry them and their seemingly perpetually increasing returns from the Irish property market. Although, a government other than FG Inc. would be for the benefit of the individual investor, buyer, renter and builder.


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    #201
    19233974
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭19233974


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    February 8 (Saturday) is the date of the GE, just released. Let the smear and spoof campaigns commence!

    Institutional investors will be watching the results very carefully and if FG are likely to not be in government then I think this would worry them and their seemingly perpetually increasing returns from the Irish property market. Although, a government other than FG Inc. would be for the benefit of the individual investor, buyer, renter and builder.


    maybe a non FG government would make some inroads into the housing shortage and on the plus side we would be rid of Murphy who has to be of the most inept housing ministers ive seen.


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    #202
    Envelope436
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Envelope436


    I am looking to purchase at the moment. Dublin area. The market still seems very quiet in my opinion. Nothing new coming on. Anyone else any thoughts? I was told Jan would be busy.


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    #203
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    most one off housing I know is along established roads that need maintenance anyway, or down a private road with a few properties along off a main road, have their own sewer and mains water and sure the ESB is a private company effectively. I really don't see this argument of how it costs more.

    How is the ESB a private company?


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    #204
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    BrownFinger wrote: »
    You do know when you build a house you have to pay to get your services connected?
    The esb don't go putting in poles for free.
    I pay my taxes and don't have access to the public sewer.I pay to maintain my own.Same with water.
    So I am actually subsidising you.

    What about when you need an ambulance or the guards?


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    #205
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    19233974 wrote: »
    maybe a non FG government would make some inroads into the housing shortage and on the plus side we would be rid of Murphy who has to be of the most inept housing ministers ive seen.

    We already have Micheal Martin trotting out some of FF's policy approach on fixing the housing crisis, quoting;

    “We built housing, I have no problem building council housing estates, I don’t hold my nose at that like Fine Gael.”

    In a market where borrowing costs are at an all-time low, it is crucial the government borrows to build social housing rather than relying on the private market to deliver the required housing. A story from the IT last week says it all about FG's approach to the market; https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/another-year-of-dysfunction-ahead-for-ireland-s-property-market-1.4133293

    "Realis is reported to be planning a 25-year agreement with Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, which will pay up to €3,000 a month to rent these properties to accommodate people on its social housing list."


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    #206
    Billythekid19
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭Billythekid19


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    This is the busy season.

    Could be busy cause at the start of the year the banks are giving out their allowances for over 3.5 times of a persons income at the moment. If the bank is willing to give you 4 times your income you might as well take it!


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    #207
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    First post..
    Envelope436 wrote: »
    I am looking to purchase at the moment. Dublin area. The market still seems very quiet in my opinion. Nothing new coming on. Anyone else any thoughts? I was told Jan would be busy.

    Just withdrew an offer on a place in Inchicore due to legal difficulties so I am now back to searching. Market is not quite as dead as November/December but think it'll probably still be quite quiet until at least Feb..


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    #208
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Been holding off on buying for the last 4 years. Has seemed for the last 18 months - 2 years that prices weren't really coming down on the listings but you could see listings in relatively high demand areas in Galway that were posted for a year or more.

    When talking to real estate agents they weren't giving much away.

    When we started arranging viewings, that's when the real estate agents became a little more candid. Maybe because they figured they were putting some time and effort in, so they were willing to talk more.

    From conversations we've been having it seems demand has dropped off significantly. In large part because demand is down and also in part because the new buyers have been priced out. Houses have been going Sale Agreed but then the deals fall apart because the mortgage fell through. This has then lead to some sellers dropping the asking price but others have been stubborn and kept it high.

    In Galway, the Oranmore area is still bananas but most of the rest of the country has fallen. There was a house we viewed that was out fairly far from Oranmore village that had gone almost 100k over the asking price. It'll be interesting to see if that one actually goes for that price. We passed on a house that ended up going sale agreed for 60k under the asking price. It was move in ready.

    It was interesting to see Daft's report showing the 5 most high demand areas of Galway but then in reality finding that houses there tend to stay listed for a long time and when they sell go for 40k+ below the asking price. Just 2 years ago, when trying to talk to real estate agents they had no time. Those without receptionists didn't answer the phone and had their mailboxes full.

    Knew someone who moved back from Seattle who ended up going 40k over the asking price for a house by Headford 2 years ago. Looked at two houses in the same area about 3 months ago that didn't have any offers and had been on the market for a good while.

    It's a buyers market if you have the cash to play.


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    #209
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ush1 wrote: »
    What about when you need an ambulance or the guards?

    We have phones too.


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    #210
    Woshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Woshy


    I really hope some more houses come on the market soon - there is nothing for sale in the area we are looking in that is suitable. I'm hoping it will pick up in the Spring.

    We put an offer 30k below asking on a house nearby that we liked. It's been for sale since the end of September. There are no other bidders (despite there being about 7 families at the viewing) but the sellers have rejected the offer as they want asking price (which we feel is overpriced). We've said we'll leave the offer on the table and we're willing to negotiate but we're not bidding against ourselves or just offering asking price. EA is adamant the sellers will only take the asking price. So I guess we're walking away and hoping something better comes on the market soon.


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    #211
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    BrownFinger wrote: »
    We have phones too.
    And you're a long way from the station / hospital. An ambulance on a call out to a rural one-off could likely have attended to two patients in need in an urban or suburban area in the time it takes them to deal with the one patient they have to travel out to treat in the rural dwelling.

    More day-to-day issues have an impact too: small rural schools don't offer the Dept of Education the economies of scale we get for our investment in urban/suburban areas. School Bus schemes are heavily subsidised by the taxpayer. The costs of providing a one-off with connections to services (electricity, water where applicable, telephony and broadband) are higher than the charges levied and the rest of us subsidise this in higher charges for these services. Longer commutes increase wear and tear on our road network etc. etc. etc.

    Look, no sensible person has a problem with the fact that such subsidisation is necessary for farmers and those they rely on in order to feed the country. It's when Gavin who works in Fund Accounting in the IFSC decides he wants to benefit from this subsidisation in order to fund his escape to the country that it ruffles feathers.

    A quick change to the taxation system could resolve a lot of this issue but, in reality, we'd be relying on the very politicians who bought votes with their "assistance" in securing planning permission for many of these one offs to support that change so it's unlikely to happen imo.


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