Heavyweight Boxing

walshb · 31-05-2020 12:23pm

And if we are being technical and correct, he didn’t quit v Holyfield. He was disqualified for fouling...

Bad character shown in the fight..

Cyrus · 31-05-2020 1:00pm

walshb wrote: »

That was his last fight. He got bashed...

I suppose Ali is a quitter because he failed to come out for rd 11 or 12 v Holmes..Can’t remember exact rd. Yes, his corner called it..

You can make excuses for it but just pointing it out you appeared to have forgotten

eagle eye · 31-05-2020 1:22pm

Cyrus wrote:

You can make excuses for it but just pointing it out you appeared to have forgotten

Tyson's prime years were before he went to jail. After jail he was never the same fighter.
His career before jail is what we're considering and it puts him in the top five all time.

The Nal · 31-05-2020 1:50pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Tyson's prime years were before he went to jail. After jail he was never the same fighter.
His career before jail is what we're considering and it puts him in the top five all time.

He was KO'd by Buster Douglas before he went to jail.

eagle eye · 31-05-2020 2:02pm

The Nal wrote:

He was KO'd by Buster Douglas before he went to jail.

That's one fight.
Lewis was ko'd by Rahman and McCall.

I hate knocking Lewis but it's just I rate the two of them very close to each other all time.

walshb · 31-05-2020 3:23pm

Cyrus wrote: »

You can make excuses for it but just pointing it out you appeared to have forgotten

That’s fine. But there should always be some context around these things. Same way I would put context to Duran’s quitting v Leonard, or Vitali’s quitting v Byrd. There is context in many instances...

Tyson was old, well past it, and really a complete shell of his prime. In the last fight if his career against a younger and bigger and stronger man..He simply could not go on...

walshb · 31-05-2020 3:52pm

The Nal wrote: »

He was KO'd by Buster Douglas before he went to jail.

Yes, he was....and Joe Louis was knocked out by Max Schmeling....

All the tops lads suffered losses and set backs...

Tyson always seems to be judged far more harshly. That's juts how I see it...

And I don't like the man one bit.....

The Nal · 31-05-2020 4:16pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, he was....and Joe Louis was knocked out by Max Schmeling....

He was. And he avenged that defeat.

walshb wrote: »

All the tops lads suffered losses and set backs...

Tyson always seems to be judged far more harshly. That's juts how I see it...

And I don't like the man one bit.....

I think the opposite. A lot of people would think hes the best boxer ever. Not just at HW.

I think its fair to not have him top 5. Hes just being judged as everyone else is. Rivals they beat in their prime, did they get off the floor to win, come from behind to win, avenged defeats etc.

Lots of fighters did all of above. Tyson didn't. If we're talking about the top top lads, Tyson isn't one of them.

Anyway this talk of a comeback is getting silly. Assume its just all for publicity.

eagle eye · 31-05-2020 4:58pm

Tyson '87, '88, '89 beats any other heavyweight in history.

walshb · 31-05-2020 5:38pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Tyson '87, '88, '89 beats any other heavyweight in history.

I don’t disagree...certainly a great chance to.

yourdeadwright · 02-06-2020 11:42am

walshb wrote: »

You do realize you are basing this quit jibe off one single fight of his 20 years career? The bite night..one single fight. One crazy reaction...

56 fights. 50 wins. One moment where he showed craziness and lost it.

I mean, does Roberto Duran also lose out when we assess him against the best?

No no your taking my quitter comment literal,
I mean in his big fights against Holyfield and Lewis ,
When the fights got tuff and he couldn't just blast them out of there he quit doing what he did well ,He just came apart he never had the mentally to push through ,he quit on himself,

nacho libre · 02-06-2020 12:30pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Tyson '87, '88, '89 beats any other heavyweight in history.

I am not so sure. I can think of two fighters who would have beaten Tyson in those years. If Tyson couldn't get you out of there he struggled, and he would have struggled against a prime Ali and Lewis. I think a fight with Vitali would have been difficult too.

The Nal · 02-06-2020 12:54pm

nacho libre wrote: »

I am not so sure. I can think of two fighters who would have beaten Tyson in those years. If Tyson couldn't get you out of there he struggled, and he would have struggled against a prime Ali and Lewis. I think a fight with Vitali would have been difficult too.

Liston from 1959 to 1963.

walshb · 02-06-2020 1:20pm

The Nal wrote: »

Liston from 1959 to 1963.

Seriously, Liston hasn't a hope against Tyson

Tyson finds his chin and cleans him out.....

Liston's only chance is KO, and no way he gets it...Tyson had a an iron chin....

I give Liston 3 rds tops against a peak Tyson

And Liston is not better than Douglas. Douglas in Tokyo was better than any Liston that fought....bigger and taller as well....and heavy handed.

The whole Liston mystique was greatly exaggerated.

walshb · 02-06-2020 1:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No no your taking my quitter comment literal,
I mean in his big fights against Holyfield and Lewis ,
When the fights got tuff and he couldn't just blast them out of there he quit doing what he did well ,He just came apart he never had the mentally to push through ,he quit on himself,

Let's just get rid of the Lewis fight....seriously. He was clearly a shell of the fighter he was in the late 80s....clearly.....

Lewis just bashed him into submission.....that was not a quit job at all....Lewis pulverized (a clearly well over the hill Tyson) to the mat...

Lewis in the early noughties was the best HW on earth. Lewis' peak was stretched across several years....he was very very very good for several years.

Mike was excellent for four years, and very good for a few....then just a shell for the remaining years....all this needs to be taken into consideration.

Tyson's career:

1986-1998 he was grade A +
1990-1991 he was A -

1995 he was a B (post prison)
1996-1997 he was a B -

1999 onward he was just a shell....more so as the years passed

By the time he fought Lewis in 2002 he was at D - I'd say....Lewis was still up around B + territory.

The Nal · 02-06-2020 2:37pm

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, Liston hasn't a hope against Tyson

Tyson finds his chin and cleans him out.....

Liston's only chance is KO, and no way he gets it...Tyson had a an iron chin....

I give Liston 3 rds tops against a peak Tyson

And Liston is not better than Douglas. Douglas in Tokyo was better than any Liston that fought....bigger and taller as well....and heavy handed.

The whole Liston mystique was greatly exaggerated.

We don't know for certain either way, again, fantasy match ups are just that, but the bit in bold. WTF.

Douglas was allowed to be that good in Tokyo because Tyson just stood in front of him. Tyson had given up moving by that stage. His body language changed in the first 90 seconds of round 1.

Prime Liston always came forward and would've had a great chance against anyone with that jab.

yourdeadwright · 02-06-2020 2:48pm

walshb wrote: »

Let's just get rid of the Lewis fight....seriously. He was clearly a shell of the fighter he was in the late 80s....clearly.....

Lewis just bashed him into submission.....that was not a quit job at all....Lewis pulverized (a clearly well over the hill Tyson) to the mat...

Lewis in the early noughties was the best HW on earth. Lewis' peak was stretched across several years....he was very very very good for several years.

Mike was excellent for four years, and very good for a few....then just a shell for the remaining years....all this needs to be taken into consideration.

Tyson's career:

1986-1998 he was grade A +
1990-1991 he was A -

1995 he was a B (post prison)
1996-1997 he was a B -

1999 onward he was just a shell....more so as the years passed

By the time he fought Lewis in 2002 he was at D - I'd say....Lewis was still up around B + territory.

See that what annoys me people say ah forget about that fight Mike was over the hill, it was Mike fault he looked like **** Lewis was a year older and way better ,
If you wana get in there and fight and say this that and the other you better back it up , not say ah well i was over the hill then ,

yourdeadwright · 02-06-2020 2:56pm

The Nal wrote: »

We don't know for certain either way, again, fantasy match ups are just that, but the bit in bold. WTF.

Douglas was allowed to be that good in Tokyo because Tyson just stood in front of him. Tyson had given up moving by that stage. His body language changed in the first 90 seconds of round 1.

Prime Liston always came forward and would've had a great chance against anyone with that jab.

You hit the nail on the head about fantasy match ups,
There so stupid because what if you get the Tyson who turned up v Douglas, the AJ that turned up for Ruiz one, Them performances are also part of them fighters ,that is also what they are capable on fight night,

Morrison J · 02-06-2020 3:18pm

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, Liston hasn't a hope against Tyson

Tyson finds his chin and cleans him out.....

Liston's only chance is KO, and no way he gets it...Tyson had a an iron chin....

I give Liston 3 rds tops against a peak Tyson

And Liston is not better than Douglas. Douglas in Tokyo was better than any Liston that fought....bigger and taller as well....and heavy handed.

The whole Liston mystique was greatly exaggerated.

That's a bloody massive call to make.

Foreman always said that Liston battered him in sparring. Was one of the few fighters who forced him to box because he couldn't take Liston's power. Ali said that Liston hit harder than Foreman too.

Liston would be a problem for Mike. Mike isn't getting inside and manhandling Liston like he did so many others. Not a chance. Mike has to find a way inside that rangy, powerful jab too. Not an ounce of doubt in my mind that Liston tames Mike considerably. He isn't walking through him in 3 rounds. No way.

It's a good competitive 50/50 I think. Think Mike's hand speed can give Liston plenty of problems but Mike would need to be in tip top condition to win.

walshb · 02-06-2020 5:34pm

Morrison J wrote: »

That's a bloody massive call to make.

Foreman always said that Liston battered him in sparring. Was one of the few fighters who forced him to box because he couldn't take Liston's power. Ali said that Liston hit harder than Foreman too.

Liston would be a problem for Mike. Mike isn't getting inside and manhandling Liston like he did so many others. Not a chance. Mike has to find a way inside that rangy, powerful jab too. Not an ounce of doubt in my mind that Liston tames Mike considerably. He isn't walking through him in 3 rounds. No way.

It's a good competitive 50/50 I think. Think Mike's hand speed can give Liston plenty of problems but Mike would need to be in tip top condition to win.

Tyson at 220 lbs easily gets inside Liston's jab.....it's a jab, for chrissake...let's not make it out to be some nuclear warhead.

Liston gets ridiculously overrated....I have seen the Ali fights. Liston barely laid a glove on Ali, so Ali's claim doesn't mean anything here in terms of Liston v Tyson. Both hit hard. Tyson for me a far deadlier overall puncher.

He beat a blown up MW, in Floyd Patterson......that's about it......

When faced with a bigger man in Clay, and then Ali he was exposed...

Tyson just goes straight to Liston...this fight cannot last....And Mike's chin for me was very sturdy

Hits as hard, if not harder. Far more aggressive, and a lethal finisher....who won't be able to spoil like a Tucker or Smith. Too really big men for Mike.

walshb · 02-06-2020 5:35pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

See that what annoys me people say ah forget about that fight Mike was over the hill, it was Mike fault he looked like **** Lewis was a year older and way better ,
If you wana get in there and fight and say this that and the other you better back it up , not say ah well i was over the hill then ,

It's an absolute fact that in 2002 he was well over the hill

Why he was is not relevant.......he was, that is my point.

LL was not way over the hill. Lewis was, at that time, the best HW on the planet...again, fact!

The Nal · 02-06-2020 5:51pm

walshb wrote: »

Tyson at 220 lbs easily gets inside Liston's jab.....it's a jab, for chrissake...let's not make it out to be some nuclear warhead.

Liston gets ridiculously overrated....I have seen the Ali fights. Liston barely laid a glove on Ali, so Ali's claim doesn't mean anything here in terms of Liston v Tyson. Both hit hard. Tyson for me a far deadlier overall puncher.

He beat a blown up MW, in Floyd Patterson......that's about it......

When faced with a bigger man in Clay, and then Ali he was exposed...

He was done by Ali, either not bothered or intimidated by the Nation of Islam. Much like people give Tyson a pass for being done by Lewis. Liston was the same age when he fought Ali as Tyson was when he fought Lewis.

But that Ali may be the greatest boxer of all time.

However, look at Listons fights against Patterson (about the same size) and Cleveland Williams who was bigger. Great movement and chin, one of the best jabs in HW history and always moving. He had 3 or 4 really really good years.

walshb · 02-06-2020 5:54pm

The Nal wrote: »

He was done by Ali, either not bothered on intimidated by the Nation of Islam. Much like people give Tyson a pass for being done by Lewis.

But that Ali may be the greatest boxer of all time.

However, look at Listons fights against Patterson (about the same size) and Cleveland Williams who was bigger. Great movement and chin, one of the best jabs in HW history and always moving. He had 3 or 4 really really good years.

Floyd Patterson was a blown up MW, and one of history's weakest ever HW champions......

The Patterson win is in now way an indicator of what Sonny could do to a mane 25-30 lbs heavier than Patterson.....who hits far harder than Patterson and is far more aggressive and far stronger....

The fight cannot go long, because Liston won't run, and can't run. He either takes Mike out, or he is taken out.......

Morrison J · 02-06-2020 7:37pm

walshb wrote: »

Tyson at 220 lbs easily gets inside Liston's jab.....it's a jab, for chrissake...let's not make it out to be some nuclear warhead.

Liston gets ridiculously overrated....I have seen the Ali fights. Liston barely laid a glove on Ali, so Ali's claim doesn't mean anything here in terms of Liston v Tyson. Both hit hard. Tyson for me a far deadlier overall puncher.

He beat a blown up MW, in Floyd Patterson......that's about it......

When faced with a bigger man in Clay, and then Ali he was exposed...

Tyson just goes straight to Liston...this fight cannot last....And Mike's chin for me was very sturdy

Hits as hard, if not harder. Far more aggressive, and a lethal finisher....who won't be able to spoil like a Tucker or Smith. Too really big men for Mike.

It's not just a jab though is it. One of the best jabs in heavyweight history, if not the best. Wasn't a pawing jab either, it was a pure weapon that hurt fighters and made them reluctant to commit. 84inch reach too.

The Liston that fought Ali wasn't prime Liston. I think the second Cleveland Williams fight is when Liston was at his most destructive. Around the time of 1959/60 he was the complete package imo. Not a foregone conclusion for Mike at all imo.

yourdeadwright · 02-06-2020 9:22pm

walshb wrote: »

It's an absolute fact that in 2002 he was well over the hill

Why he was is not relevant.......he was, that is my point.

LL was not way over the hill. Lewis was, at that time, the best HW on the planet...again, fact!

We are agreing with each other Lennox was great, Tyson was pants, my only point was Lennox was older than Mike at that point, People" not you " make age an excuse for that lose on Mikes behalf, Im saying at that stage he was mentally done,

walshb · 02-06-2020 11:27pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

We are agreing with each other Lennox was great, Tyson was pants, my only point was Lennox was older than Mike at that point, People" not you " make age an excuse for that lose on Mikes behalf, Im saying at that stage he was mentally done,

Age means nothing here.

Not sure why you bring it up..

Just watch the two of them in the fight, and analyse both their careers up to the fight..

Tyson was a shell..complete. Lennox was still very capable. Number 1..

Different fighters and athletes can peak and diminish at different stages due to a number of factors..

yourdeadwright · 03-06-2020 10:26am

walshb wrote: »

Age means nothing here.

Not sure why you bring it up..

Just watch the two of them in the fight, and analyse both their careers up to the fight..

Tyson was a shell..complete. Lennox was still very capable. Number 1..

Different fighters and athletes can peak and diminish at different stages due to a number of factors..

Time at the top counts for a lot when you start to consider greats ,

The Nal · 03-06-2020 10:52am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Time at the top counts for a lot when you start to consider greats ,

Longevity is a key metric yeah.

yourdeadwright · 03-06-2020 10:55am

The Nal wrote: »

Longevity is a key metric yeah.

Of course , in very few other sports you would never count one or two season wonders as greats ,

walshb · 03-06-2020 11:57am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Time at the top counts for a lot when you start to consider greats ,

I think our wires have crossed

I meant that age means nothing here in relation to Lewis v Tyson fight 2002...

You mentioned Lewis being similar age........as if it means that the fight was both them being pretty much the same...

They were pretty much the same age...I know this....

But Tyson was a complete shell of a fighter in 2002. Lewis was not. Lewis was still very very good. Best in the world.

Longevity and success through years is very influential when assessing greatness. I get this..

Mike had maybe 6 years at the top or near it......not too shabby at all, considering prison cost him almost 4 years.....his fault, that.

The Nal · 03-06-2020 12:02pm

walshb wrote: »

Mike had maybe 6 years at the top or near it......not too shabby at all, considering prison cost him almost 4 years.....his fault, that.

6 years is generous but yeah either way, Tyson never fought aged 25, 26, 27 and 28.

walshb · 03-06-2020 12:05pm

The Nal wrote: »

6 years is generous but yeah either way, Tyson never fought aged 25, 26, 27 and 28.

It's not generous...he was at the top, or near the top in all those years...

1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1995, 1996

The first four calendar years he was a monster...circa 10-0 in HW championship fights.....

The Nal · 03-06-2020 12:11pm

walshb wrote: »

It's not generous...he was at the top, or near the top in all those years...

1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1995, 1996

The first four calendar years he was a monster...circa 10-0 in HW championship fights.....

Again, very generous.

KO'd by Buster Douglas in 90.

2 fights in 95, one was Peter McNeely.

KO'd by Holyfield in 96.

walshb · 03-06-2020 12:14pm

The Nal wrote: »

Again, very generous.

KO'd by Buster Douglas in 90.

2 fights in 95, one was Peter McNeely.

KO'd by Holyfield in 96.

I never discussed his win losses. I simply stated that in those years he was at or near the top...

He was.....he had wins and losses in 1990 and 1996....he was still a top rated HW

And, I always have had reservations about his 1996 loss to Holyfield.....

Holyfield to me during these years was very suspicious as regards what was in the body...

Even removing two years, he still gets 5-6 years at the top.

Cyrus · 03-06-2020 12:18pm

walshb wrote: »

I never discussed his win losses. I simply stated that in those years he was at or near the top...

He was.....he had wins and losses in 1990 and 1996....he was still a top rated HW

And, I always have had reservations about his 1996 loss to Holyfield.....

Holyfield to me during these years was very suspicious as regards what was in the body...

Even removing two years, he still gets 5-6 years at the top.

ah now, you go mad whenever anyone raises doubts about boxers who dope and here you are doing the same thing :P

The Nal · 03-06-2020 12:22pm

walshb wrote: »

Holyfield to me during these years was very suspicious as regards what was in the body...

Im more than very suspicious about Holyfield and juicing.

yourdeadwright · 03-06-2020 12:34pm

The Nal wrote: »

Im more than very suspicious about Holyfield and juicing.

Surely we all think they where all at it back then ?

walshb · 03-06-2020 12:35pm

Cyrus wrote: »

ah now, you go mad whenever anyone raises doubts about boxers who dope and here you are doing the same thing :P

I know....

But there is a lot written about Holyfield on this.

I have real suspicions here....that is all....I think many many do...

I don't apply the same level of suspicion to every person who has rumors...

It's all down to levels. Holyfield would be high on the suspicion level for me.

walshb · 03-06-2020 12:36pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Surely we all think they where all at it back then ?

I don't think that follows....

Some were, and some were not. Like all sports....

yourdeadwright · 03-06-2020 12:40pm

walshb wrote: »

I don't think that follows....

Some were, and some were not. Like all sports....

Testing was pants back In the day,
Nearly the top guys where far more muscular than todays heavy weights bar AJ and Wald , and strangely all seems to have decent cardio to go with it ,

squinn2912 · 03-06-2020 6:18pm

Plenty of question marks over Tyson himself during that era. When a common word used to describe a fighter as being ‘freakish’ you often wonder why

Bobby Baccala · 03-06-2020 6:47pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Plenty of question marks over Tyson himself during that era. When a common word used to describe a fighter as being ‘freakish’ you often wonder why

Him and Holyfield were probably both at it along with half the other heavys out there at the time. Look at Frank Bruno in the early 90s ffs, walking around like something out of WWE.

squinn2912 · 03-06-2020 11:22pm

Bobby Baccala wrote: »

Him and Holyfield were probably both at it along with half the other heavys out there at the time. Look at Frank Bruno in the early 90s ffs, walking around like something out of WWE.

He certainly wasn’t on anything to increase stamina

eagle eye · 04-06-2020 12:03am

squinn2912 wrote:

Plenty of question marks over Tyson himself during that era. When a common word used to describe a fighter as being â€˜freakishâ€™ you often wonder why

Don King destroyed Mike Tyson.
He was under Cus D'Amato's tutelage both inside and outside the ring and Kevin Rooney became his trainer under D'Amato. D'Amato passed away in '95 and Rooney became his mentor as well as his trainer. Rooney got fired after the Spinks fight by King. Lots of the top analysts put his loss 18 months later to Douglas down to the fact that Rooney was no longer with him. I'm talking about Larry Merchant and Jerry Isenberg amongst others.
The Mike Tyson that fought under Cus D'Amato's and Kevin Rooney was the best there ever was imo.

squinn2912 · 04-06-2020 8:22am

eagle eye wrote: »

Don King destroyed Mike Tyson.
He was under Cus D'Amato's tutelage both inside and outside the ring and Kevin Rooney became his trainer under D'Amato. D'Amato passed away in '95 and Rooney became his mentor as well as his trainer. Rooney got fired after the Spinks fight by King. Lots of the top analysts put his loss 18 months later to Douglas down to the fact that Rooney was no longer with him. I'm talking about Larry Merchant and Jerry Isenberg amongst others.
The Mike Tyson that fought under Cus D'Amato's and Kevin Rooney was the best there ever was imo.

No arguments here about King, Cus or Rooney. That night on a one off against any other fighter on their best night he’d be a tough proposition for sure. Best ever is impossible to gauge I think there are a number who would have a good chance of beating him even at that stage. Lewis, foreman, Holmes, bowe, klit x2, Holyfield, Liston abd Ali spring to mind in no particular order. Think you can make arguments for any of those and for Tyson too.
Whether or not he and many others were on enhancers is a different issue.

The Nal · 04-06-2020 9:45am

Tyson firing Rooney is right up there with the worst decisions in the history of sport.

ElBastardo1 · 04-06-2020 9:53am

squinn2912 wrote: »

No arguments here about King, Cus or Rooney. That night on a one off against any other fighter on their best night he’d be a tough proposition for sure. Best ever is impossible to gauge I think there are a number who would have a good chance of beating him even at that stage. Lewis, foreman, Holmes, bowe, klit x2, Holyfield, Liston abd Ali spring to mind in no particular order. Think you can make arguments for any of those and for Tyson too.
Whether or not he and many others were on enhancers is a different issue.

Mike Tyson was a product, he was the star and he was the biggest money spinner in boxing in years. The whole 'after Cus died' story that was the end of him story is just that. Regardless of cus dying, MT was now a man with Don King in his ear, there is a chance with all the hype and head turning he would of gone off the rails anyway. I've always felt people liked the Cus / Tyson Father / Son story, but who knows where that could have went.

People love hype, I remember watching Joshua v Klit in a pub in town and a young lad who was maybe 20 was telling his friends that his father was a massive boxing fan and Joshua was the best boxer his father had ever seen since Tyson. now, anyone with boxing knowledge knows this is horse sh1t.

squinn2912 · 04-06-2020 11:09am

ElBastardo1 wrote: »

Mike Tyson was a product, he was the star and he was the biggest money spinner in boxing in years. The whole 'after Cus died' story that was the end of him story is just that. Regardless of cus dying, MT was now a man with Don King in his ear, there is a chance with all the hype and head turning he would of gone off the rails anyway. I've always felt people liked the Cus / Tyson Father / Son story, but who knows where that could have went.

People love hype, I remember watching Joshua v Klit in a pub in town and a young lad who was maybe 20 was telling his friends that his father was a massive boxing fan and Joshua was the best boxer his father had ever seen since Tyson. now, anyone with boxing knowledge knows this is horse sh1t.

I can imagine you clenching your pint in a fit of rage! Who should we be mad at, the father for talking sh1t, the son for believing it or Joshua for being himself?

That’s a sensible point about cus. Tyson was always liable to do that

The Nal · 04-06-2020 11:16am

Tyson just stopped moving after he fired Rooney. Became a standard brawler.

Immediate difference. Tysons first fight after firing Rooney was Bruno and it was the first time Tyson was in trouble. A better boxer could've finished him in round 1.

ElBastardo1 · 04-06-2020 1:59pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

I can imagine you clenching your pint in a fit of rage! Who should we be mad at, the father for talking sh1t, the son for believing it or Joshua for being himself?

That’s a sensible point about cus. Tyson was always liable to do that

I know the young lad was doing no harm, but he said this over and over again, how Joshua was unbeatable. I remember watching the Ruiz fight last year thinking " I hope that lad is watching this fight now". Joshua is very limited, his size and power sees him through most fights.

People still go on today about Tyson being the best ever. I think people that don't watch boxing think that. He could have had a better record if he wasn't such a scum bag. His stint in prison and his druggy lifestyle destroyed his legacy.

Heavyweight Boxing

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