Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

kingofthekong · 18-11-2020 5:10pm

I think we lose this pretty comfortably but hope its not a blow out,

I actually think we beat them in the six nations when Furlong, Leavy and others back as well as some additions into the squad from maybe Baird or H.byrne

aloooof · 18-11-2020 5:20pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Thought AKI was very good against France and offered us gainline every time, not the most creative center partnership though

I'm a massive fan of Aki, but I think the biggest downside to having him against England is his lack of kicking game. Intelligent grubbers, crossfield kicks etc. are a brilliant way to turn England's line speed against them.

Dubinusa · 18-11-2020 6:14pm

I wonder if not playing Beirne at 6 is a missed opportunity. England would be a great opposition to try this out. Maybe go with
6. Beirne
7 VDF
8. Stander
20. Doris.

The Lost Sheep · 18-11-2020 6:17pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

I wonder if not playing Beirne at 6 is a missed opportunity. England would be a great opposition to try this out. Maybe go with
6. Beirne
7 VDF
8. Stander
20. Doris.

Why? When has he played there recently and why would England be a side to try that out against?

TRC10 · 18-11-2020 6:34pm

I think it's pretty clear that England are way ahead of us at the moment. Winning away against the best team in the world is going to be very tough. I think the main focus from us should be putting in a strong performance and also seeing a clear development into our game and a movement towards playing the way Andy Farrell wants us to play. Accuracy at the breakdown and being more clinical in the opposition 22 are two things that theres room for improvement in. However we created a lot of chances against Wales which is a promising sign in itself. We're a team in transition, Englans are arguably the best team in the world. This will be a tough game but I'm hoping for clear signs of development.

Paul Weller · 18-11-2020 6:44pm

TRC10 wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear that England are way ahead of us at the moment. Winning away against the best team in the world is going to be very tough. I think the main focus from us should be putting in a strong performance and also seeing a clear development into our game and a movement towards playing the way Andy Farrell wants us to play. Accuracy at the breakdown and being more clinical in the opposition 22 are two things that theres room for improvement in. However we created a lot of chances against Wales which is a promising sign in itself. We're a team in transition, Englans are arguably the best team in the world. This will be a tough game but I'm hoping for clear signs of development.

I don't think they are the best team in the world..if you say top 4 ..then maybe

bilston · 18-11-2020 6:52pm

I feel strangely optimistic about this game.

We have a bigger midfield than England which is unusual and with the speed that JGP gets the ball moving and the sharper from throughout the team in general I think we might cause England more problems than we did in February.

swiwi_ · 18-11-2020 7:11pm

IMO if Ireland win then Ross Byrne will have had a stormer. I struggle to see Ireland winning otherwise. It’s nice to have rugby on, although crying shame about Fiji.

aloooof · 18-11-2020 7:20pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

IMO if Ireland win then Ross Byrne will have had a stormer. I struggle to see Ireland winning otherwise. It’s nice to have rugby on, although crying shame about Fiji.

It really does make such a difference as compared to the last lockdown. Really looking forward to the weekend now, even if I'm not expecting a win.

Real shame about Fiji alright. Especially the France game, that could've been brilliant to watch.

18-11-2020 7:37pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

IMO if Ireland win then Ross Byrne will have had a stormer. I struggle to see Ireland winning otherwise. It’s nice to have rugby on, although crying shame about Fiji.

Ross Byrne could have the game of his life but if the Irish pack don't gain some advantage in contact and hold parity at the set piece then it wont matter.

Byrne will deliver a competent, professional but not game changing performance and that's fine - Ireland enjoyed plenty of success with O'Gara doing the same thing but we'll need to hammer them up front if we want to win in Twickenham.

Paul Weller · 18-11-2020 7:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ross Byrne could have the game of his life but if the Irish pack don't gain some advantage in contact and hold parity at the set piece then it wont matter.

Byrne will deliver a competent, professional but not game changing performance and that's fine - Ireland enjoyed plenty of success with O'Gara doing the same thing but we'll need to hammer them up front if we want to win in Twickenham.

Many would rightly argue that O'Gara dragged a lesser quality side over the line many times compared to the fantastic players Sexton had around him

Dave_The_Sheep · 18-11-2020 8:03pm

Paul Weller wrote: »

Many would rightly argue that O'Gara dragged a lesser quality side over the line many times compared to the fantastic players Sexton had around him

Um. Ireland's golden generation? A lesser quality side?

swiwi_ · 18-11-2020 8:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ross Byrne could have the game of his life but if the Irish pack don't gain some advantage in contact and hold parity at the set piece then it wont matter.

Byrne will deliver a competent, professional but not game changing performance and that's fine - Ireland enjoyed plenty of success with O'Gara doing the same thing but we'll need to hammer them up front if we want to win in Twickenham.

Think those are mutually exclusive. If Irish pack doesn’t gain some advantage I don’t see Byrne having the game of his life. He’s just not the sort of player to deliver a statement performance with a beaten pack.

Faugheen · 18-11-2020 8:13pm

Paul Weller wrote: »

Many would rightly argue that O'Gara dragged a lesser quality side over the line many times compared to the fantastic players Sexton had around him

Anyone who says that is chatting absolute bollocks.

O’Gara played with some of the best players Ireland has ever produced and all in their prime. O’Driscoll, O’Connell, D’Arcy etc.

They were called the golden generation for god’s sake.

aloooof · 18-11-2020 8:25pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Think those are mutually exclusive. If Irish pack doesn’t gain some advantage I don’t see Byrne having the game of his life. He’s just not the sort of player to deliver a statement performance with a beaten pack.

Completely agree. I'm hopeful that a better performance from our pack (I'd take parity), coupled with some quicker service from JGP will give Byrne a better platform than he did in that RWC warm-up game. If he gets that, he'll need to have a good game if we're to have any chance of a win.

aloooof · 18-11-2020 8:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ross Byrne could have the game of his life but if the Irish pack don't gain some advantage in contact and hold parity at the set piece then it wont matter.

Byrne will deliver a competent, professional but not game changing performance and that's fine - Ireland enjoyed plenty of success with O'Gara doing the same thing but we'll need to hammer them up front if we want to win in Twickenham.

Venjur, is this your not-so-subtle attempt at trying to start a ROG v Ross Byrne argument on here??

TRC10 · 18-11-2020 8:30pm

Paul Weller wrote: »

I don't think they are the best team in the world..if you say top 4 ..then maybe

Who's better? The Springboks haven't played in over a year so you cant say its them. All Blacks have lost 2 on the bounce. The only other contender is france but I think England would have their number if they were the to play tomorrow.

AbusesToilets · 18-11-2020 8:34pm

I'm most interested in two things. If we can meet the English with some aggression for a change, and not get smashed behind the gainline all game. Also, if we have learnt from previous thrashings and made adjustments to counter their game plan. Kicks against their defensive rush, and how to defend against their kicking game.

aloooof · 18-11-2020 8:40pm

TRC10 wrote: »

Who's better? The Springboks haven't played in over a year so you cant say its them. All Blacks have lost 2 on the bounce. The only other contender is france but I think England would have their number if they were the to play tomorrow.

Equally, I think the All Blacks would have England's number if they were to play tomorrow. They're certainly among the best in the world (along with NZ and SA for me), but I don't think it's definitive.

Paul Weller · 18-11-2020 8:51pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Anyone who says that is chatting absolute bollocks.

O’Gara played with some of the best players Ireland has ever produced and all in their prime. O’Driscoll, O’Connell, D’Arcy etc.

They were called the golden generation for god’s sake.

Sexton played with all those in their actual prime....and many more...it's not even a close run thing if you're being honest

awec · 18-11-2020 9:44pm

2020 has been bad enough, we do not need a Sexton v ROG debate to go along with everything else.

Don't even go down this road. No more posts on this topic.

18-11-2020 9:49pm

Anyone else really surprised about Murray? He's actually been left out of a full strength team away to England. Never thought I'd see the day. It's very difficult for a player of his stature to find themselves out of the team. Fwiw I think it's the right call.

swiwi_ · 18-11-2020 10:05pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Anyone else really surprised about Murray? He's actually been left out of a full strength team away to England. Never thought I'd see the day. It's very difficult for a player of his stature to find themselves out of the team. Fwiw I think it's the right call.

I thought JGP was really good last week. Not surprised he’s been retained. TBH I think it was a bit overdue. The game has moved and I don’t think Murray’s game has evolved.

As an aside I really like the look of Keenan. Reckon he’s a keeper.

18-11-2020 10:06pm

Ross Byrne hopefully has gotten over the nightmares from his last start for Ireland and can display more composure

Tuilagi being out undoubtedly a help

Some form calls from AF - good to see that in any case.

5 project player starters - it's a bit... h-Ireland

18-11-2020 10:13pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

I thought JGP was really good last week. Not surprised he’s been retained. TBH I think it was a bit overdue. The game has moved and I don’t think Murray’s game has evolved.

As an aside I really like the look of Keenan. Reckon he’s a keeper.

This is all true but it's still just very unusual for Ireland to drop a player like Murray. I think it's the right call I'm just very surprised.

18-11-2020 11:12pm

Actually if the subs go the wrong way - 10, hooker and prop and more than half the team on the field would be non-Irish :eek:

England vs the Baba's?

jacothelad · 18-11-2020 11:38pm

glasso wrote: »

Actually if the subs go the wrong way - 10, hooker and prop and more than half the team on the field would be non-Irish :eek:

England vs the Baba's?

The 10 is Irish, the hooker is Irish and the prop is Irish, at least according to their passports.

19-11-2020 12:18am

jacothelad wrote: »

The 10 is Irish, the hooker is Irish and the prop is Irish, at least according to their passports.

regardless of semantics this sort of situation was not really the plan was it?

accensi0n · 19-11-2020 12:20am

glasso wrote: »

regardless of semantics this sort of situation was not really the plan was it?

The plan? To play the best team available and try to win?

19-11-2020 12:25am

accensi0n wrote: »

The plan? To play the best team available and try to win?

yes but if it was one of Eng, Wales or Scotland it would be commented that they are taking the absolute piss.

kingofthekong · 19-11-2020 12:33am

aloooof wrote: »

I'm a massive fan of Aki, but I think the biggest downside to having him against England is his lack of kicking game. Intelligent grubbers, crossfield kicks etc. are a brilliant way to turn England's line speed against them.

I’d love a kicking game from 12 but with the guys we have available we can’t , he’s the best we’ve got , Frawley is probably the best option for that and he’s a while off I reckon

Akrasia · 19-11-2020 12:36am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

yes and no. Is he any less dynamic than POM or Stander? Perhaps a touch less explosive than CJ, but he's more capable with the ball. He's much better overall than POM, outside of the lineout. Obviously my opinion, but I've never managed to grasp just where he's so deficient relative to his peers.

Sorry to dig up a week old post but Stander is one of the most dynamic players to ever wear a green Jersey

Akrasia · 19-11-2020 12:41am

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

This is all true but it's still just very unusual for Ireland to drop a player like Murray. I think it's the right call I'm just very surprised.

JGP is a good player to tide us over until Craig Casey gets a few Heineken cup games under his belt and is ready to take his rightful spot as the Munster and Ireland starting Scrum Half

kingofthekong · 19-11-2020 2:24am

Dubinusa wrote: »

I wonder if not playing Beirne at 6 is a missed opportunity. England would be a great opposition to try this out. Maybe go with
6. Beirne
7 VDF
8. Stander
20. Doris.

That is probably the worst backrow combination you could’ve come up with with what’s available it’s almost a troll

kingofthekong · 19-11-2020 2:33am

Akrasia wrote: »

JGP is a good player to tide us over until Craig Casey gets a few Heineken cup games under his belt and is ready to take his rightful spot as the Munster and Ireland starting Scrum Half

Casey is quality and I can’t wait to see him in a green jersey , but to say a player of the quality of Jgp is a hold over is not accurate, he’s currently the best scrum half in the country and may also get better again from his international exposure

irishbucsfan · 19-11-2020 6:09am

glasso wrote: »

yes but if it was one of Eng, Wales or Scotland it would be commented that they are taking the absolute piss.

What do you mean “if”, England make use of players born overseas all the time?

clsmooth · 19-11-2020 9:27am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

To be clear, I don't want to see Hendo at six.

But he's put in superb performances in the HEC at blindside, against the likes of Sarries. I know how you love to pooh-pooh, but don't get carried away with the pooh-pooh.

When was the last time he played at 6? Not sure he’d have the mobility to play it these days at international level but I wouldn’t be adverse to seeing it.

Paul Smeenus · 19-11-2020 10:04am

clsmooth wrote: »

When was the last time he played at 6? Not sure he’d have the mobility to play it these days at international level but I wouldn’t be adverse to seeing it.

Ach, I really don't think it would be a good idea.

But when he broke through, he was playing internationally at both positions. Whenever he settled on second row, he would still line out in the back row at HEC for Ulster, and there were folk that thought he was much more suited to it. He put in some superb performances for us there.

That has become "do a job at Pro14 level".

ionadnapokot · 19-11-2020 10:16am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

To be clear, I don't want to see Hendo at six.

But he's put in superb performances in the HEC at blindside, against the likes of Sarries. I know how you love to pooh-pooh, but don't get carried away with the pooh-pooh.

it's a very old chestnut Henderson at 6 isnt it?
i would back you up there though. No doubts whatsoever he could tag on the side of a scrum and get around the pitch a bit more in an emergency.

With Baird coming through soon it appears like we will have two similar players in Henderson and him.

19-11-2020 10:19am

Akrasia wrote: »

JGP is a good player to tide us over until Craig Casey gets a few Heineken cup games under his belt and is ready to take his rightful spot as the Munster and Ireland starting Scrum Half

Eh relax there chief.

IAmTheReign · 19-11-2020 10:41am

glasso wrote: »

yes but if it was one of Eng, Wales or Scotland it would be commented that they are taking the absolute piss.

Huh? Some of Englands best players are foreign born. Off the top of my head the 2 Vuniploas, Tuilagi, Willi Heinz and Joe Cokanasiga are all foreign born.

Tuilagi was an illegal immigrant when he signed for Tigers and almost got deported but the RFU intervened. He's probably the only Samoan asylum seeker in the UK. Can't say I've ever heard that get brought up when he lines out for England.

Bazzo · 19-11-2020 10:58am

And Scotland?? Pretty hilarious attempt.

Wales don't put out a huge amount of foreign born players to be fair but there are still some fairly high profile names there.

sydthebeat · 19-11-2020 11:13am

In the last 10 years England have capped Hape, Fourie, corbisiero, tuilagi, botha, sharples, barritt, 2 vunipola, kvesic, waldrom, yarde, rokodunguni, Harrison, Hughes, Hill, teo, heinze, cokanisinga, shields, solomana.....

All of who are non-uk born.... Seeing as that's now a thing

19-11-2020 11:38am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What do you mean “if”, England make use of players born overseas all the time?

Have they ever started 5 southern hemisphere transfer players in one game like Ireland are doing this weekend?

That's what I obviously meant.

I'd be surprised if they have

sydthebeat · 19-11-2020 11:41am

glasso wrote: »

Have they ever started 5 southern hemisphere transfer players in one game like Ireland are doing this weekend?

That's what I obviously meant.

I'd be surprised if they have

They have 1500 players to choose from.

We have 150.

One thing is not like the other.

19-11-2020 11:47am

sydthebeat wrote: »

They have 1500 players to choose from.

We have 150.

One thing is not like the other.

Wakes or Scotland haven't either

It's quite jarring on this occasion as a "national team" and there are no two ways about it.

aloooof · 19-11-2020 11:52am

glasso wrote: »

Have they ever started 5 southern hemisphere transfer players in one game like Ireland are doing this weekend?

That's what I obviously meant.

I'd be surprised if they have

Sorry, but that's not obviously what you meant. You specifically mentioned guys who didn't qualify thru the residency rule.

glasso wrote: »

Actually if the subs go the wrong way - 10, hooker and prop and more than half the team on the field would be non-Irish :eek:

England vs the Baba's?

Squidgy Black · 19-11-2020 11:56am

Scotland had 16 foreign born players at the RWC, Wales had 11, Ireland had 8.

Bazzo · 19-11-2020 11:57am

I'm not arsed looking into it now but I would be every surprised if Scotland hadn't lined out a team with 8+ players who qualify either through residency or parents/grandparents in the past.

sydthebeat · 19-11-2020 11:58am

glasso wrote: »

Wakes or Scotland haven't either

It's quite jarring on this occasion as a "national team" and there are no two ways about it.

youre starting point is a fallacy... therefore everything else forward from that is an error

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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