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Greystones Marina

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    #122
    gstonesmx5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭gstonesmx5


    i have heard from multiple very close sources that the deal for the golf club hase been done although a time limit has not yet been put in place eg 1-5yrs.
    this has been roumored for months now but i would belive now.
    i had heard cost figures of €40k per member but that was 6-7 months ago.


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    #123
    Marcais
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Marcais


    Johnc72 wrote:
    Jesus Christ, Is nothing sacred.

    Not apparently with these scum, and I've come to the conclusion that is what they are. Total disregard for the people of Greystones' wishes, the environment both physical and visual and disdain for the electorate. Environmental terrorists!

    Free meals, €35-€40k annual expenses, and who knows what money has passed hands in pushing through developments like this.


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    #124
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    loyatemu wrote:
    Charlesland golf club (or the Evans family) apparently owns a lot of land to the south of the existing course and I had heard rumours that they were going to build a new course there, and sell the existing course to developers.

    TBH this wouldn't worry me as much as the harbour development. Provided it didn't impact the beach itself (which given the location of the railway line its hard to see how it could). It's only golf course at the moment so its not providing amenity to anyone other than golfers. Any new development would probably be accessed off the new road and adjoin Charlesland.

    As ever - if you build a new road, the land adjoining it will quickly be developed. This is no surprise.


    I woudnt count on it being south of Charlesland. The quote refers to the development location being within the Town Boundary. I think it could encompass the Soccer club land, the TC offices and the car park and possibly extend north along the South beach walk. I will find out details after the presentation post them.


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    #125
    GAN
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭GAN


    Anyone else get a letter in the door from our esteemed mayor, Derek Mitchell, today? I don't know why I'm surprised -- he is a politician after all -- but I've never seen such a brass neck. He was one of the main supporters of this plan, yet is now talking about how An Bord Pleanala's changes "mean everybody wins and the divide in the town can be repaired"; going on to call for the town to "unite around this compromise" and "avoid division".

    Do you think Derek has done his sums and realised that 6,000 objections to ABP means an awful lot of disaffected voters as we face into an election year? We should all remember that he was one of a number of local politicians who attempted to force this scheme through in the face of massive local objections when the time comes to cast our vote. I for one look forward to giving him hell if he has the misfortune to call to my door when he's out canvassing!!

    His email address by the way is mitchelld@ireland.com if you want to make your views known to him


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    #126
    Sparks115
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sparks115


    I totally agree GAN....I think that most of the new residents of Greystones should make their views known when these people are begging us for their votes. I would urge anyone and everyone who has moved to the area to make sure they have registered to vote in the area as soon as possible so come the day of reckoning these scumbag politicians (should be known as gangsters) will get their just deserts and we vote in mass against the current regime....:mad: arghhh these people make me so mad!!!!!!!! I cant wait for them to call on my door step...they will rue the day they try to pull the wool over my eyes!!!! :D:D:D:D RANT OVER :D;)


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    #127
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    INCH wrote:
    I totally agree GAN....I think that most of the new residents of Greystones should make their views known when these people are begging us for their votes. I would urge anyone and everyone who has moved to the area to make sure they have registered to vote in the area as soon as possible so come the day of reckoning these scumbag politicians (should be known as gangsters) will get their just deserts and we vote in mass against the current regime....:mad: arghhh these people make me so mad!!!!!!!! I cant wait for them to call on my door step...they will rue the day they try to pull the wool over my eyes!!!! :D:D:D:D RANT OVER :D;)

    Well, according to loyatemu's thread regarding the census, it appears that we are, in fact, in the Kilcoole electoral district - does anyone know if this has any impact who should and shouldn't be calling around to us?

    PS folks - please try and keep your comments as non-libellous as possible; boards.ie seems to have a higher profile than usual recently - more here


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    #128
    GAN
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭GAN


    Had a quick look at the Wicklow County Council website and in the section where you can look up your local councillors, it only gives you the option of picking from Bray, Greystones, Wicklow town, Baltinglass and Arklow. So even if Charlesland is deemed to be part of Kilcoole, I would imagine it is still part of the Greystones council area.

    Whatever about local elections, we're all in the same constituency for the general election so we should certainly not let the opportunity pass to let FF/FG and all the others who supported this proposal know how we feel about it.


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    #129
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    GAN wrote:
    Had a quick look at the Wicklow County Council website and in the section where you can look up your local councillors, it only gives you the option of picking from Bray, Greystones, Wicklow town, Baltinglass and Arklow. So even if Charlesland is deemed to be part of Kilcoole, I would imagine it is still part of the Greystones council area.

    Whatever about local elections, we're all in the same constituency for the general election so we should certainly not let the opportunity pass to let FF/FG and all the others who supported this proposal know how we feel about it.

    You are quite right. Even though you are in Kilcoole you have the privelege of being represented by Derek along with his erstwhile colleagues Geroge Jones and Kathleen Kelleher. (You do howevero have Tom Fortune who does think like the rest of you and opposes this stuff)

    One suggestion, dont wait for the general election to voice your views. It is important that people let the politicians know that what is being proposed for the north beach is not a compromise. It still invoves wrecking the appearance of the place (albeit to a lesser degree) and causing traffic chaos. Most importantly it involves giving over a public beach to a private developer to build houses. In addition, according to derek, the community facilities included in the original plan may have to now be omitted!! So the Community gets nothing at all.

    The most important person to communicate with Is Dick Roche dick.roche@oireachtas.ie
    He is a local TD and minister of the Environment. But tell him now as he may think that this "compromise" will keep the peasants quiet enough to make his seat safe in the next election.


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    #130
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Fiachra2 wrote:
    The most important person to communicate with Is Dick Roche dick.roche@oireachtas.ie
    He is a local TD and minister of the Environment. But tell him now as he may think that this "compromise" will keep the peasants quiet enough to make his seat safe in the next election.

    Dick's seat is safe regardless of what happens, he could dance naked through the streets of greystones and he'd still be re-elected. (apologies to anyone who's eating).


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    #131
    Marcais
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Marcais


    INCH wrote:
    I totally agree GAN....I think that most of the new residents of Greystones should make their views known when these people are begging us for their votes. I would urge anyone and everyone who has moved to the area to make sure they have registered to vote in the area as soon as possible so come the day of reckoning these scumbag politicians (should be known as gangsters) will get their just deserts and we vote in mass against the current regime....:mad: arghhh these people make me so mad!!!!!!!! I cant wait for them to call on my door step...they will rue the day they try to pull the wool over my eyes!!!! :D:D:D:D RANT OVER :D;)

    Well said Inch and Gan. Rant away! I read Mitchell's stomach churning rhetoric today...the crawling is not even disguised.

    Made me both sick and angry, angry that he would insult our intelligence with such squirmish tripe along the lines of "even if you don't support the war, support our troops"...................."they've scaled the plan down...so lets all come together to support it.....won't it be great with couples holding hands walking on the boardwalk, children playing in boats etc. etc." Really makes you want to vomit !!! And, you can be sure that the printing and distribution of this cr*p will form part of the honourable councillor's €40k or so in expenses for 2006. :p to all of us.....GOODNIGHT!!


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    #132
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    loyatemu wrote:
    Dick's seat is safe regardless of what happens, he could dance naked through the streets of greystones and he'd still be re-elected. (apologies to anyone who's eating).

    Not quite corrrect.

    1 Dick has lost his seat in the past and to a first time candidate Johnny Fox

    2. As a minister, I understand Dick is supposed to bring in another candidate with him or risk loosing his ministery. Landing a second seat will not be easy if Dick himself doesnt poll well. loosing the ministry would be a big blow.

    Therefore dick is vulnerable and he knows it. Why else would he have omitted mention of this project in his last 3/4 newsletters. He knows the project is unpopular with voters. We need to mkae him feel that those voters will hold him responsible.


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    #133
    GAN
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭GAN


    Good points Fiachra2. It's actually great that ABP have delayed the decision, because it means that the issue will still be active in the run-up to the election, which is due to happen in mid-May. Dick and all the other politicians who supported it were doubtless hoping that it would all be done and dusted by now -- hence the backtracking by Derek Mitchell and the omission of it by Dick.

    Given that there is likely to be a swing against the government anyway, it's not inconceivable that a protest vote against the marina in Greystones could either cost Dick his seat or seriously impact on the amount of votes he gets. But let's be sure not to give the votes to Fine Gael, who also supported the project.


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    #134
    Sparks115
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sparks115


    Very true Gan...I was listening to East Coast FM the other day and Mr Mitchell was waffling on about how this new proposal will reunite the people of Greystones and how much he supported the new development, it was so sickening to listen too if I hadnt been driving I would have rung in and aired my views;) probably would have been cut off though due to a techincal hitch!!!;). The green party seem to be the only ones totally against this development.

    Anyway I am so against this proposal I have sent an email to Mr Mitchell and Mr Roche stating my anger and disgust and that I will be very happy to stand in front of any JCB or digger with my baby and partner to protest against any developer building on a public beach that my baby son should have the god given right to walk on in years to come!!! RANT OVER!!:D


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    #135
    GAN
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭GAN


    That's the spirit Inch, fair play to you!! I reckon with that flier Derek Mitchell will have done more to mobilise people against the marina than anything else that's happened -- I reckon it was a serious miscalculation on his part, people will be sickened by that level of cynicism. It will be an interesting few months!!


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    #136
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    its nonsense for Derek Mitchell to suggest that the people of Greystones should unite behind the new proposal when nobody's even seen it yet, but at the same time we can't condemn it either. Everyone should wait and see what is proposed.

    Most people were opposed to the sheer scale of the original scheme - if the scale is significantly reduced then a lot of people will drop their opposition.


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    #137
    Ossie
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Ossie


    Derek obviously reckons he can protect the new harbour development from the sea and the inevitable effects of rising sea levels on developments on the shore.

    Perhaps our Mayor should hold the next town council meeting on the North Beach, place his throne on the sand and demonstrate his power to stop the tide.

    Methinks that he will end up with wet feet and end up in another FLOOD TRIBUNAL!

    Perhaps the North Beach meeting would go something like this……….

    Mayor Derek of Greystones was surrounded by a host of admiring cohorts which included among their ranks Sir George the Large and Kathleen the Yank. However their flattery began to irritate the imperious but clear-minded Mayor.

    “O Mayor.” they would declare, bowing low before him. “Your might is so great, your influence is so powerful – you could accomplish anything. Had you the desire, you could even halt the incoming tide and reverse all impacts of global warming and rising sea levels.” “Very well,” declared the Mayor at last. “Let us put your claims to the test. Carry my throne down to the North Beach for our monthly meeting.” Somewhat dismayed, the cohorts hastened to carry out their mayor’s command.

    The throne was unloaded from a cart and set upon the shingle on the North Beach, a little way from the incoming waves. Mayor Derek seated himself in it and called his cohorts to take up their positions about him.

    There was a long pause, during which the bearded one frowned at the sea and the cohorts glanced from one to the other in growing trepidation, and shivered in the winds that caught at their robes.

    Suddenly Mayor Derek raised his hand and thundered out:
    “Waves – I your Mayor command ye to be still! I ruler of Greystones command ye to halt!”

    A long line of waves crashed upon the shingle of the North Beach shoreline. A second travelled further up the beach and broke around the mayor’s throne, wetting his knees and covering the courtiers in a shower of spray.
    Mayor Derek turned and surveyed his crestfallen companions. For a moment a shadow of a smile passed across his face through his beard.

    “Let us adjourn and reconvene our meeting in the town council building,” he said. “It seems that the waves dare to disobey my commands.


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    #138
    GAN
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭GAN


    :) well done Ossie, I enjoyed your post!!

    was reading yesterday that the architect for the proposed development at the charlesland golf club is norman foster, he of the "erotic gherkin" fame. Lord help us!!


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    #139
    eleMental
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭eleMental


    from The Sunday Business Post:

    Erotic gherkin creators’ plans for Greystones

    The creators of London’s 66-storey Swiss Re tower, nicknamed the erotic gherkin, will present a masterplan for the redevelopment of an area that includes Charlesland Golf Club in Greystones, Co Wicklow, to local residents and politicians next Thursday.

    The gherkin’s creators, London architectural firm Foster & Partners, are promoting the Greystones plan with Irish developers Durkan Residential and Michael McNamara & Company.

    Previous projects by Foster & Partners, which is headed up by Norman Foster, have included a futuristic dome-shaped building in the Swiss ski resort of St Moritz, the iconic 42-storey Hearst headquarters in New York and the 53-storey Commerzbank tower in Frankfurt.


    Anyone know where this presentation to residents is actually taking place?


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    #140
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    eleMental wrote:
    from The Sunday Business Post:

    Erotic gherkin creators’ plans for Greystones

    The creators of London’s 66-storey Swiss Re tower, nicknamed the erotic gherkin, will present a masterplan for the redevelopment of an area that includes Charlesland Golf Club in Greystones, Co Wicklow, to local residents and politicians next Thursday.

    The gherkin’s creators, London architectural firm Foster & Partners, are promoting the Greystones plan with Irish developers Durkan Residential and Michael McNamara & Company.

    Previous projects by Foster & Partners, which is headed up by Norman Foster, have included a futuristic dome-shaped building in the Swiss ski resort of St Moritz, the iconic 42-storey Hearst headquarters in New York and the 53-storey Commerzbank tower in Frankfurt.


    Anyone know where this presentation to residents is actually taking place?

    Cool, so something like this to look forward to maybe?

    Greystones.jpg


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    #141
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    Brilliant Eoin!

    However it might be a bit risky leaving that image on the board? If WCC see it they get another idea for a "visionary project" for the North beach. No doubt our Mayor would want us all to unite behind this one as well.


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    #142
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Fiachra2 wrote:
    No doubt our Mayor would want us all to unite behind this one as well.

    Doubt it, would he not consider me another "pass-remarkable blow in"? I believe that is one of his quotes?


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    #143
    Marcais
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Marcais


    eoin_s wrote:
    Doubt it, would be not consider me another "pass-remarkable blow in"? I believe that is one of his quotes?

    That was actually his predecessor but I'm sure his lordship would echo the sentiment. If we could unite behind an anti-Marina, anti-waste, pro-community facilities candidate and see past our own political leanings, we could ensure ourselves a voice. Ideally, the GPDA could put someone forward.


    ps. Excellent...:-)

    Greystones.jpg


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    #144
    future_plans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 380 ✭✭future_plans


    Hi all.

    I am sure everybody has heard of the Masterplan for the redevelopment of the southbeach and Charlesnad GC at this stage.

    The actual article in the Bray Times stated:

    "Sources have indicated that the design company, Foster and Partners, have created a 'master plan' for the existing Charlesland Golf Club site, with the intention of integrating the site into a wider plan for the south beach area.


    The plans, which are largely aspirational at present, have been greeted with some negativity by many of the local councillors, not least of whom Greystones mayor, Derek Mitchell, who has strongly objected to any proposals for large scale development in the area due to the town's lack of facilities."

    My understanding of this is that they plan to integrate the GC into a new master residential development of the south beach area. Not simply build on the site of the existing golf course.

    Even if these plans do eventually go ahead, it will be quite a number of years before anything happens. Just look at the North beach development for proof of this.

    As much as I would like to see tasteful development in carefully selected areas of Wicklow, I really fear for the county now. If the current trend continues, then the Urban sprawl that previously stopped at Bray head will continue down the Wicklow coast to Wicklow town and maybe further. Developers will constantly look for the next prime development area. Even though the current zoning would prevent such development, it has been seen that the county council is open to change with regard this. I would suggest that intense lobbying from various interested parties will often get their way and have lands re-zoned for the good of their own bank accounts.


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    #145
    Marcais
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Marcais


    future_plans wrote:
    Hi all.

    I am sure everybody has heard of the Masterplan for the redevelopment of the southbeach and Charlesnad GC at this stage.

    The actual article in the Bray Times stated:

    "Sources have indicated that the design company, Foster and Partners, have created a 'master plan' for the existing Charlesland Golf Club site, with the intention of integrating the site into a wider plan for the south beach area.


    The plans, which are largely aspirational at present, have been greeted with some negativity by many of the local councillors, not least of whom Greystones mayor, Derek Mitchell, who has strongly objected to any proposals for large scale development in the area due to the town's lack of facilities."

    The same councillor who invited a €300m "development" "strongly objected to any proposals for large scale development in the area due to the town's lack of facilities." :confused: The wolves were at the door, he let them in and now he wonders why they want more lamb.

    The sure fire way to stop the South Beach being developed is to stop the destruction of the North Beach. If he really wants us to unite behind something, how about uniting behind that?

    It is not too late to stop Sispar and send a message to all developers. e-mail politicians and councillors..QUICKLY.


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    #146
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    If you read todays irish times you will see that the development includes, guess what-a harbour!

    This is very interesting because it puts the north beach development into perspective. It would be politically unacceptable to allow housing alone on the coastline. So to get over the problem you dress it up as a "leisure" development by adding on a harbour.

    That they have chosen to include a harbourt in the south beach development shows up the north beach one for what it is. A commercial development in the guise of harbour restoration. How could a town which hertofore had one small delapidated harbour, now suddenly require 2 larger ones!?

    With regard to our Mayors objection Marcais you will notice that he opposed it because of the lack of facilities. Not because of the beauty of the area or the consumption of the national coastline by commercial development. I think we could run a book on how long his opposition will last.


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    #147
    future_plans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 380 ✭✭future_plans


    Here are the proposed plans for Charlesland GC. Note there are a lot of Green fields in this....just imagine that there are lots of houses and apartments on the Green areas and that the North beach doesn't exist...then you get a true feeling for Greystones: 2015

    00000001.JPG


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    #148
    sportbilly
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭sportbilly


    Like it or not Greystones is growing and in 2015 there could be near 20k people living in the place. At least we have an opportunityto influence how the town will look then.

    This plan looks quite good. It makes sense to create attractions at the other end of the town and move the focus from the cramped current town centre and harbour.

    I'm sure this will also create better swimming and facilities for waterbased activites than currently exist down that end of town, it will also provide a quicker access to the seaside for people living in Charlesland.


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    #149
    Marcais
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Marcais


    sportbilly wrote:
    This plan looks quite good. It makes sense to create attractions at the other end of the town and move the focus from the cramped current town centre and harbour.

    I'm sure this will also create better swimming and facilities for waterbased activites than currently exist down that end of town, it will also provide a quicker access to the seaside for people living in Charlesland.

    "the cramped current town centre and harbour"!!

    If I recall, you were one of the misguided few who supported the €300m, 900k tonne Marina. Ambiguity worthy of a town councillor. Are you a town councillor by the way? As you seem to have unquestioning support for all their proposals. Or are you a developer?

    And, by the way, the sea is not merely a playground for watersports enthusiasts, and hopefully your jetskis won't be bothering seals on the South Beach side for a long time to come.

    ps. a small harbour on the South Beach might be acceptable if the obnoxious GReystones Marina goes ahead. However, the downside of all developers' plans is the "fill in the gaps with houses" as soon as possible philosophy.


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    #150
    Sparks115
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sparks115


    sportbilly wrote:
    Like it or not Greystones is growing and in 2015 there could be near 20k people living in the place. At least we have an opportunityto influence how the town will look then.

    This plan looks quite good. It makes sense to create attractions at the other end of the town and move the focus from the cramped current town centre and harbour.

    I'm sure this will also create better swimming and facilities for waterbased activites than currently exist down that end of town, it will also provide a quicker access to the seaside for people living in Charlesland.


    Hello Sportbilly.....did u recieve a nice brown envelope in your post recently or has the wonderful sea air got to the last remaining functioning cells u have left in your brain!!! If u have actually seen the proposals for either of the 2 new large scalew developments of the north & south beach u wouldnt be saying any of the above. Therefore me thinks Marcais is correct in his thoughts. Are u a developer or a counciller or better still an Alien recently arrived to planet earth and not RIGHT IN THE HEAD?? Dear god man, you may be into your sports but not for the sake of mass building and bad planning. May your trip back to planet GAGA be pleasant. Live long a prosper ( can u hear the rustle of more brown envelopes):D


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    #151
    red_bairn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭red_bairn


    In the whole 19 years 6 months 17 days etc etc that I've been leaving here I've enjoyed the lovely waterscapes and the landscape in Greystones and I think they should first think of the infrastructure of the surrounding areas of Greystones rather than developing this idiotic development. One huge problem for me with the Harbour being developed is the need for a second road to be built via Darcys field. The traffic is gonna be a huge problem for us. Overall I think Greystones is launching too fast into a bigger town. We have Lidls, office blocks, and apartments going up behind us. We have already the Charlesland area and Delgany built up. We have proposed plans for a huge shopping centre going up beside Charlesland golf course. Now we have a second proposal of a harbour. They wanna stick up two God damn Miami Vice harbours-in Greystones!?:mad:


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