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Covid in Schools

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    #722
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    _Fluffy_ wrote: »
    Certainly! https://www.facebook.com/groups/600905740607906

    I was slow to join it myself because it is a parents' group, but I think there are school staff who are not parents contributing to the group too.

    A lot of teachers on it, watching for their schools and their kids schools


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    #723
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    khalessi wrote: »
    A lot of teachers on it, watching for their schools and their kids schools

    Some of the comments are “interesting “
    Seen a parent giving out earlier that teachers keep “annoying” their child all day about keeping their mask on
    There is no winning with some people
    Probably be the first parent questioning the school If there child contacted Covid

    An awful lot of comments too questioning /giving out that schools are not telling them all who has got Covid Etc etc
    Is it that hard for people to read up on all of this themselves !


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    #724
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    km79 wrote: »
    Some of the comments are “interesting “
    Seen a parent giving out earlier that teachers keep “annoying” their child all day about keeping their mask on
    There is no winning with some people
    Probably be the first parent questioning the school If there child contacted Covid

    An awful lot of comments too questioning /giving out that schools are not telling them all who has got Covid Etc etc
    Is it that hard for people to read up on all of this themselves !

    Schools are the enemy no matter what they do in some people's eyes.


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    #725
    Metroid diorteM
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭Metroid diorteM


    Just want to say thanks on behalf of my kid who genuinely needs school for a few different reasons.

    If the schools close it'll be a serious disaster for our family. It truly is an essential service. More than I'd ever realised until it was at risk.

    Thanks again to all teachers and those working in the schools. You have my utmost respect.


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    #726
    8k71ps
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭8k71ps


    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/coronavirus-antigen-tests-quick-and-cheap-too-often-wrong


    Just a reminder the tests the department is planning to use will probably be wildly inaccurate.


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    #727
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    km79 wrote: »
    Some of the comments are “interesting “
    Seen a parent giving out earlier that teachers keep “annoying” their child all day about keeping their mask on
    There is no winning with some people
    Probably be the first parent questioning the school If there child contacted Covid

    An awful lot of comments too questioning /giving out that schools are not telling them all who has got Covid Etc etc
    Is it that hard for people to read up on all of this themselves !

    I have not joined that group specifically because it would annoy me to an extreme.


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    #728
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    shesty wrote: »
    I have not joined that group specifically because it would annoy me to an extreme.

    I generally don’t read any comments. Just watch the pics


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    #729
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    shesty wrote: »
    I have not joined that group specifically because it would annoy me to an extreme.

    I joined, I don't bother readng the comments I just look at the verified schools, for my school and the kids school.


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    #730
    Panga
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Panga


    An awful lot of comments too questioning /giving out that schools are not telling them all who has got Covid Etc etc
    Is it that hard for people to read up on all of this themselves !

    Not all schools with cases have been posted to the parents site. The site are relying on parents to send in HSE letters confirming cases. Not everyone is going to do that.

    The HSE have the official number of cases in schools but they are deliberately obsfucating the numbers to downplay the true number of cases in schools.

    Schools don't have an obligation to inform their staff or students of a covid cases. Many of them are not.

    The HSE say they will inform anyone who needs to know ie a close contact, but they have redefined a close contact in a school setting as someone within 2m not wearing a mask.

    I am working with colleagues and students who have tested positive for covid. I haven't been considered a close contact even though I spend over 3hours a week in a room with them.

    Everyone is following guidelines. It does not make this right.

    School management should be informing their staff and students of covid cases on the school.


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    #731
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1027/1174076-coronavirus-ireland/

    No actual detail about how these new teams will work, how many people in a team, how many schools will they each cover, what happens if a team gets over loaded, is contact via call or email?

    We've seen this weekend that school principals have been totally left to fend for themselves. No one to turn to when parents inform them of positive cases.


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    #732
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Panga wrote: »

    Everyone is following guidelines. It does not make this right.

    School management should be informing their staff and students of covid cases on the school.

    GDPR
    It’s all very well saying this
    Imagine you are on the other side . Imagine you are the person who has contracted Covid and want your privacy protected . Imagine the school ignored this and identifies you either directly or indirectly. There are people out there only waiting for this to happen so they can make an issue out of it sadly .
    It is not for school staff or management to decide who know or who doesn’t know
    It’s for the HSE. That is their job . Not sure how many times that has to be repeated .
    If they can’t cope then schools will have to close . They are the public health experts .

    Parents are also not informing school management of positive cases . Whose fault is this ?
    They are just following the same guidelines.....


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    #733
    Panga
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Panga


    km79 wrote: »
    It is not for school staff or management to decide who know or who doesn’t know
    It’s for the HSE. That is their job . Not sure how many times that has to be repeated .
    If they can’t cope then schools will have to close . They are the public health experts .

    Parents are also not informing school management of positive cases . Whose fault is this ?
    They are just following the same guidelines.....

    The guidelines are not fit for purpose. They are based on transmission by contact. The science has moved on since these guidelines were drawn up. We need new guidelines based on aerosol transmission.

    The HSE are clearly not coping. Just last weekend they asked people to do their own contract tracing.

    Does GDPR trump public health? That will be an interesting question for the courts in the future.

    I have total sympathy for my colleagues and students who have have contracted covid. It could be me tomorrow. I would feel under a moral obligation to tell my colleagues if I had tested positive. There should be total transparency. People are feeling guilt and shame around testing positive. That is so wrong.


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    #734
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Panga wrote: »
    The guidelines are not fit for purpose. They are based on transmission by contact. The science has moved on since these guidelines were drawn up. We need new guidelines based on aerosol transmission.

    The HSE are clearly not coping. Just last weekend they asked people to do their own contract tracing.

    Does GDPR trump public health? That will be an interesting question for the courts in the future.

    I have total sympathy for my colleagues and students who have have contracted covid. It could be me tomorrow. I would feel under a moral obligation to tell my colleagues if I had tested positive. There should be total transparency. People are feeling guilt and shame around testing positive. That is so wrong.

    I thought GDPR was brought up over teachers needing to share covid test text messages from other teachers and were told public health trumps it? Maybe I’m incorrecf


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    #735
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Dr Jerry Cowley piece in IT yesterday flagging pubs and schools as main causes of second wave, media is changing it's tune. I don't think this would have been printed a few weeks ago.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/wet-pubs-and-schools-reopening-led-to-rise-in-covid-cases-says-mayo-gp-1.4390919


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    #736
    _Fluffy_
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭_Fluffy_


    Panga wrote: »
    Not all schools with cases have been posted to the parents site. The site are relying on parents to send in HSE letters confirming cases. Not everyone is going to do that.

    The HSE have the official number of cases in schools but they are deliberately obsfucating the numbers to downplay the true number of cases in schools.

    Schools don't have an obligation to inform their staff or students of a covid cases. Many of them are not.

    The HSE say they will inform anyone who needs to know ie a close contact, but they have redefined a close contact in a school setting as someone within 2m not wearing a mask.

    I am working with colleagues and students who have tested positive for covid. I haven't been considered a close contact even though I spend over 3hours a week in a room with them.

    Everyone is following guidelines. It does not make this right.

    School management should be informing their staff and students of covid cases on the school.

    I agree completely here, no teacher should have to learn about a case in their school by chance because they joined a Facebook group who happened to have a parent in it from the class group/pod involved who was willing to share the information to said group, who then put a public posting on Facebook.

    Exactly, that Facebook group tally is only some (one would hope most?) of the cases in Ireland. The founder wrote in a comment that she has got 100s of messages about other cases in schools but can't post them without proof.

    As for the role of the HSE, we have good grounds for suspecting they are deliberately downplaying how bad the problem is in schools, as you suggest in your post, Panga. I am also wondering if they are just too overwhelmed and 'all-over-the-shop' to keep track and a definitive record? Like last week, deciding on Wed to tell the people who received results on Fri - Sun to do their own contact tracing, madness in itself but the fact it was Wednesday and dangerously too late for people to tell their contacts... All over the shop!


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    #737
    8k71ps
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭8k71ps


    _Fluffy_ wrote: »
    I agree completely here, no teacher should have to learn about a case in their school by chance because they joined a Facebook group who happened to have a parent in it from the class group/pod involved who was willing to share the information to said group, who then put a public posting on Facebook.

    Exactly, that Facebook group tally is only some (one would hope most?) of the cases in Ireland. The founder wrote in a comment that she has got 100s of messages about other cases in schools but can't post them without proof.

    As for the role of the HSE, we have good grounds for suspecting they are deliberately downplaying how bad the problem is in schools, as you suggest in your post, Panga. I am also wondering if they are just too overwhelmed and 'all-over-the-shop' to keep track and a definitive record? Like last week, deciding on Wed to tell the people who received results on Fri - Sun to do their own contact tracing, madness in itself but the fact it was Wednesday and dangerously too late for people to tell their contacts... All over the shop!


    What's worse is that I've heard there is yet another backlog, so even without contacting tracing the absolutely ridiculously huge numbers of students in close contact with each case they couldn't manage. Also there will practically speaking be no interruption in the cases from the mid term break so expect the number of official cases in schools to either explode as more and more cases are found or to plummet as contact tracing collapses.


    Seriously, how are they expecting to institute mass antigen testing? Surely if the test shows a positive large numbers of students will have to be tested again due to being a contact of that case? Do they seriously not realize they could be opening pandoras box?


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    #738
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Panga wrote: »
    The guidelines are not fit for purpose. They are based on transmission by contact. The science has moved on since these guidelines were drawn up. We need new guidelines based on aerosol transmission.

    The HSE are clearly not coping. Just last weekend they asked people to do their own contract tracing.

    Does GDPR trump public health? That will be an interesting question for the courts in the future.

    I have total sympathy for my colleagues and students who have have contracted covid. It could be me tomorrow. I would feel under a moral obligation to tell my colleagues if I had tested positive. There should be total transparency. People are feeling guilt and shame around testing positive. That is so wrong.

    I agree with all that you are saying . Don’t get me wrong on that .
    My point is that we should not be turning on each other in schools .
    The problem as you have clearly laid out lies with the guidelines issued by HSE and Dept of Education .
    By hook or by crook..........


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    #739
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    8k71ps wrote: »
    What's worse is that I've heard there is yet another backlog, so even without contacting tracing the absolutely ridiculously huge numbers of students in close contact with each case they couldn't manage. Also there will practically speaking be no interruption in the cases from the mid term break so expect the number of official cases in schools to either explode as more and more cases are found or to plummet as contact tracing collapses.


    Seriously, how are they expecting to institute mass antigen testing? Surely if the test shows a positive large numbers of students will have to be tested again due to being a contact of that case? Do they seriously not realize they could be opening pandoras box?

    If true they may well extend the mid term break so.......


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    #740
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Can I ask a simple question?
    If nphet and the government wat to show us what they say is going on in schools is correct and nothing to worry about, why do they keep avoiding the subject.?
    Why not just prepare a simple presentation showing people the number of cases, how they are dealing with them and how they are or are not spreading when the children are at home?
    Simply make it clear to all in one presentation.


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    #741
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I personally don't trust the department fugures or NPHET on this. It seems department determined to keep schools opened.
    We won't know for another week whether this lockdown is working or not.
    Can I ask the exact procedures if you have symptoms and where that leaves you with sick leave. What happens if a test proves negative?


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    #742
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I personally don't trust the department fugures or NPHET on this. It seems department determined to keep schools opened.
    We won't know for another week whether this lockdown is working or not.
    Can I ask the exact procedures if you have symptoms and where that leaves you with sick leave. What happens if a test proves negative?

    Anything covid related comes goes down as covid sickness or whatever the term is for it.


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    #743
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Anything covid related comes goes down as covid sickness or whatever the term is for it.

    Correct
    It doesn’t affect normal sick leave
    Now the question is what happens if you later develop longer term effects such as chronic fatigue , brain fog etc that lead to prolonged absences a few months later .....


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    #744
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    It's covid leave initially but reverts to regular sick leave if the test is negative.


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    #745
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    deiseindublin wrote: »
    It's covid leave initially but reverts to regular sick leave if the test is negative.

    After the period of restricted movement has ended by which time the teacher has returned to school anyway unless sick obviously!


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    #746
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    deiseindublin wrote: »
    It's covid leave initially but reverts to regular sick leave if the test is negative.

    So are you telling me that the days that you have to stay out after a 'not detected' test are considered standard sick leave? Didn't know that at all.


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    #747
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    km79 wrote: »
    Correct
    It doesn’t affect normal sick leave
    Now the question is what happens if you later develop longer term effects such as chronic fatigue , brain fog etc that lead to prolonged absences a few months later .....

    I'm guessing your standard sickleave the .


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    #748
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    So are you telling me that the days that you have to stay out after a 'not detected' test are considered standard sick leave? Didn't know that at all.

    No they are Covid
    If you remain sick after that then it’s normal sick leave


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    #749
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/mouthwash-inactivate-covid-study/2020/10/22/1735cdd4-13c5-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html

    We are missing a trick, mouthwash coupled with the auld hand sanitiser and we'll be outta this in jiffy!!


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    #750
    Triangle
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Can I ask a simple question?
    If nphet and the government wat to show us what they say is going on in schools is correct and nothing to worry about, why do they keep avoiding the subject.?
    Why not just prepare a simple presentation showing people the number of cases, how they are dealing with them and how they are or are not spreading when the children are at home?
    Simply make it clear to all in one presentation.

    They give the covid positive test % of schools weekly (Thursday briefing) and monitor the rise in it against the standard rate.
    But keep in mind nphet is looking after the health sector and the government is looking after the country. Nphet doesn't care if schools remain open or closed just the health of the health care system.


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    #751
    Choochtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    NPHET and the government are not stupid. Of course they know that Covid is spreading like wildfire through the schools. They also know that the vast majority of these cases will be asymptomatic or so mild that the child will never go for a test.
    In effect a herd immunity is spreading throughout the young so that if/when a 3rd wave comes it will be very small compared to this one.

    Of course to admit to any of this would be political suicide.

    (Just my theory. Feel free to pick holes in it)


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