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BOI Alternatives-New Charges

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  • Options
    #392
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,537 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Rewired wrote: »
    What kind of limit?

    500,000 EUR aggregate cap on all EBS accounts.

    Meanwhile, AIB, according to the Indo, will be applying negative rates to deposits above 3 million EUR, and then dropping it to 1 million EUR, next year. Not clear if this will apply to all personal accounts yet.


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    #393
    Neowise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Neowise


    JTMan wrote: »
    500,000 EUR aggregate cap on all EBS accounts.

    Meanwhile, AIB, according to the Indo, will be applying negative rates to deposits above 3 million EUR, and then dropping it to 1 million EUR, next year. Not clear if this will apply to all personal accounts yet.


    I so wish this would effect me.


  • Options
    #394
    Grant Stevens
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Grant Stevens


    JTMan wrote: »
    500,000 EUR aggregate cap on all EBS accounts.

    Meanwhile, AIB, according to the Indo, will be applying negative rates to deposits above 3 million EUR, and then dropping it to 1 million EUR, next year. Not clear if this will apply to all personal accounts yet.

    Interesting how banks don't want to be banks anymore. Happy to sell you debt but not happy to keep their end of the bargain up when it comes to deposits. People are being screwed. Banks are no longer in the money business, they're in the property game. They are essentially landlords without most of thelandlord legal obligations. It's also interesting how they hold the deeds but you shoulder All the costs. Money created out of thin air. Fantastic if you can get away with it.

    Moved from BOI to AIB myself last year. Told the lady in the bank why we were moving. At that time you only had to hold 2,500e to stave off fees with AIB vs 3,000 with BOI. On top of that BOI charged €5 quarterly maintenence. It wasn't long before AIB then announced (in the first week of lockdown mind) that they would be introducing account maintenence fees and 2,500e would no longer waive this fee. Pulled the accounts immediately and went to EBS. That was no walk in the park either, especially as they were operating at reduced capacity due to lockdown restrictions but we got there in the end.

    Take away point: No bank should charge fees on personal accounts. They make a lot of money with little effort and cannot justify fees (in my opinion). Do not support them. Vote with your feet.

    As someone quite rightly pointed out earlier it does seem to me also that EBS are not looking for new business. We had the same experience opening our accounts. What does that tell you when the banks don't need your money!


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    #395
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Grant Stevens wrote: »
    Take away point: No bank should charge fees on personal accounts.


    Yes right up there with free groceries etc.... The take away point is that if you want a service or a product you should not be surprised to have to pay for it.


    Grant Stevens wrote: »
    What does that tell you when the banks don't need your money!


    It's very obvious - they can't find commercially opportunities to lend out the money so they can't pay you the interest you seem to think you deserve. And the economic outlook is such that it is likely to continue and probably even go negative.


    So if you want to earn a higher return you are going to have to get comfortable with a higher level of risk.


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    #396
    Grant Stevens
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Grant Stevens


    Do you work for the banks Jim? You seem to have a soft spot for them. These boys make billions from nothing. Charging a few quid a year for current accounts is pure greed and you know it.


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    #397
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Grant Stevens wrote: »
    Do you work for the banks Jim? You seem to have a soft spot for them. These boys make billions from nothing. Charging a few quid a year for current accounts is pure greed and you know it.

    You’re entitled to your opinion, but when it’s out of date and fails to deal with economic reality it’s real not much use in finance. Expecting businesses to give you their services for free and complaining when they don’t is nonsense.

    Banks are owned by shareholders, that is - taxpayers, pensioners, charities, trust funds, local government, institutions and private individuals, there is no reason why any of them should have to finance your free services.

    If you don’t want the services then stop using and you won’t have to pay.


  • Options
    #398
    Grant Stevens
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Grant Stevens


    [quote="Jim2007;114943432"
    If you don’t want the services then stop using and you won’t have to pay.[/quote]

    I don't and I did, as I highlighted in my original post!


  • Options
    #399
    jelem
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭jelem


    jeffk wrote: »
    I was the same, even if I got hassle off the dole for having it
    a little late but hey the interest is near nil and ive known "dole " take 2 euro per week
    as assessed means -- produce evidence of interest after tax and claim back from "dole".
    i saw interest of approx 40cents per week whilst dole took "means" of 2 euro.
    claim claim


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    #400
    jeffk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭jeffk


    jelem wrote: »
    a little late but hey the interest is near nil and ive known "dole " take 2 euro per week
    as assessed means -- produce evidence of interest after tax and claim back from "dole".
    i saw interest of approx 40cents per week whilst dole took "means" of 2 euro.
    claim claim

    I never tell them about credit union or savings, not even going to have savings now

    I managed to get them off my back by writing a letter to say I needed 3k for free banking, then the rest is as the household bills come out of my account as parents older so I manage them for them.

    But that was only a current account so no interest I suppose


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    #401
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You’re entitled to your opinion, but when it’s out of date and fails to deal with economic reality it’s real not much use in finance. Expecting businesses to give you their services for free and complaining when they don’t is nonsense.

    Banks are owned by shareholders, that is - taxpayers, pensioners, charities, trust funds, local government, institutions and private individuals, there is no reason why any of them should have to finance your free services.

    If you don’t want the services then stop using and you won’t have to pay.

    That's not a fair argument, that implies its a free market. Its not. No employer pays cash and as we are being rail roaded to a cashless society we have no choice but to use banks. Therefore banks have an unfair advantage in our society. I use a non Irish bank as it serves me well but to say "if you don't want the service then don't use it" is ridiculous. You can use another bank but you are forced to use a bank.


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    #402
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    I don't think this is a debate about the future of banking, or the merits of the charging models adopted by banks - it's a discussion about the alternatives (...and maybe a bit of moaning about BOI's 'simplification' of their charging structure!).

    As it is we have N26, KBC and EBS who currently offer fee current accounts and who offer a viable alternative.

    Irish people have demonstrated incredible inertia when it comes to banking. This probably partly explains why we've had such little competition to choose from. We've gotten used to switching energy provider for better value - and this is the next step.

    Will be closing my BOI accounts that I've held for nearly 20 years shortly. Currently with KBC for my joint account and a savings account - very happy with them so far.

    Seriously opening up an account with N26 to avail what I hear is an excellent online platform and their lack of foreign transaction fees which the other banks charge.


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    #403
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    That's not a fair argument, that implies its a free market. Its not.


    It is actually, it is not particular difficult for an EU bank to enter the Irish market. But when a condition of enter that market is that customers expect you to give a way your services for free... it's not surprising that no bank is interested.


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    No employer pays cash and as we are being rail roaded to a cashless society we have no choice but to use banks. Therefore banks have an unfair advantage in our society. I use a non Irish bank as it serves me well but to say "if you don't want the service then don't use it" is ridiculous. You can use another bank but you are forced to use a bank.


    Ridiculous is expecting to have a competitive market in free services... if people don't want to pay for services then they should not be surprised if there are limited options...


    Nobody can make new bank enter the Irish market and give their services away for free. And on the other side the Irish taxpayers are expecting to recover a large portion of the costs of the recapitalization of the Irish banks, not put more in to cover the cost of free services.


    The days of free services is coming to an end all over Europe, even the digital banks are now starting to report declining profits and even losses in some cases.


    Originally the idea of free banking was sold internally at banks as a 'feeder' to get the customers in and sell them other profitable services. The problem is that they then turned around and made those profitable services into commodities... Back in the days when free banking was being introduced, the asset management side of the business was measuring profit in percent today it's in base points.



    Banking was a very profitable business, but we're seen a series of really bad management decisions without follow through that has turned it into a commodity industry:
    - Free banking with a failure to convert those customers to fee generators
    - Tracker mortgages where the source of funds did not lending objectives nor the cost structure for that matter

    - Securitization to the point that the started to believe their own BS and started to put it into the capital structure of the banks.


    With the exception of the UK, most European banks, including Ireland, are OK from a capital point of view because of Basle III, but as a business it's a farce.



    We're going to have a difficult time over the next couple of decades.


  • Options
    #404
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    We've got to get used to having banks. At the moment we can move to get free banking. According to the predictions here, in the future we will move to get the services we want at the lowest cost to us; the same as we do with almost every product and service.

    I've used a lot of banks over the years:
    AIB
    Bank of Ireland
    Ulster Bank
    HSBC
    Halifax
    Permanent TSB
    KBC
    Anglo
    Nationwide UK Ireland
    Rabobank
    N26
    Bunq
    Revolut (not a bank, but...)

    I've used each one as it suited me (starting with AIB giving me a moneybox on school) and moved on when they stopped suiting me (or they closed down). None of them care how long you've had an account with them, they just care about the profit they can make from you. You don't need to be with a bank for years to get a mortgage, I got my mortgage from a bank I'd never had an account with.

    TLDR: move banks whenever their services and costs stop suiting you.


  • Options
    #405
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    https://www.thejournal.ie/paschal-donohoe-banks-5239692-Oct2020/

    Did anyone move to Ulster bank. Could be wound down according to article.


  • Options
    #406
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hi all,

    Without having to read 25+ pages of comments can someone give me a quick synopsis of the various options?

    Or has anyone like Charlie Weston written any articles on this topic recently?


  • Options
    #407
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    For anyone here thinking of EBS beware their online banking system is absolutely pathetic, it is a rare occasion where I can log straight in, this morning on my ninth attempt I got in, the notification was not sent to my phone on 6 previous login attempts and on the other 2 it still failed, Strong Customer Authentication is an absolute farce with EBS and I am actually thinking of moving away from them over this issue as I want to be able to login every few days without this hassle. Each time you change or format your phone you need to call them up for a new letter to be sent out with a unique ID and that could take 10 days. I had to factory restore my iPhone last year and set it up as a new phone for a clean install as the unlock was granted by Eir and I had to go through that rigmarole BS all over again, I'm planning to upgrade to the iPhone 12 now since I could do no foreign travel this year and face the same horse manure from EBS again.


  • Options
    #408
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Agree that EBS login can be a compete PITA and the biggest hassle happens if your phone gets reset (e.g. when being repaired) or you get a new phone. The 'pairing' exercise sounds like the 30 second job where you match up a new Bluetooth gadget or car kit but it actually involves asking them to send you a hardcopy letter with a new code. If you have an EBS account and plan on getting a new phone, you can ask for a new pairing code in advance, bear that in mind.

    My record with signing on is six attempts. Sometimes (as happened this morning) the message never arrives at your phone (to press 'confirm') or it does and you get an approved message on the browser but then there's a problem and you have to start again.


  • Options
    #409
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Recently opened an account with BOI from abroad. Think it’s called a ‘moving home from abroad’ account or something similar.

    It was a good bit a hassle and I found the whole process to be very fact finding for them. Nosy bunch to be honest. And they weren’t very happy to hear the kind of sums I’d be moving home. Lots of talk about proving where my money came from.

    All good though. All the banks and governments are doing is protecting us from the terrorists. That’s why they need to know so much about us.

    My question to anyone that has opened a N26 account - was it a tortuous event ? Or is it a simple user friendly experience ?

    This thread has been good because I could write-off the EBS straight away in light of their processes.


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    #410
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    .
    My question to anyone that has opened a N26 account - was it a tortuous event ? Or is it a simple user friendly experience ?

    This thread has been good because I could write-off the EBS straight away in light of their processes.

    Yup opening my n26 account was so simple and refreshing. All done via the app, no crap about coming into branch which only open 10 til 3 Monday to Friday like most Irish banks. Very simple and easy.


  • Options
    #411
    Shinsen
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Shinsen


    Dear all,

    You're probably aware of the new bank account charges introduced by Bank of Ireland (and soon to be introduced by AIB, as far as I understood).
    Could I please ask for the vision of BOI's clients?
    Will you be continuing keeping your account with BOI or have you been thinking of moving into another bank?
    I used to avail of the free charges by keeping my balance not lower than a certain amount but now I am going to be charged no matter what.
    Thank you for advising.


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    #412
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Threads merged.


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    #413
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    BOI are stuck in the past like the national flag carrier airlines in the 90's . The budget airlines made the flag carriers tighten up their ship or go out of business. BOI are now probably the most expensive day to day bank in Europe and their online platforms are nowhere near the level they should be.
    It's like they don't want customers who require normal day to day banking services.


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    #414
    Eduard Khil
    Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Eduard Khil


    Government are investigating the poor customer service from Eir and Vodafone I think the banks will be getting looked at next year it is a disgrace for autistic customers of BOI calling banking365 phone to hear the change in tone of the different messages specifically the we are experiencing high call volume one. I'm sticking with them personally until I move home sometime next year I will be setting my new rent account with some other bank


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    #415
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Car99 wrote: »
    BOI are stuck in the past like the national flag carrier airlines in the 90's . The budget airlines made the flag carriers tighten up their ship or go out of business. BOI are now probably the most expensive day to day bank in Europe and their online platforms are nowhere near the level they should be.
    It's like they don't want customers who require normal day to day banking services.

    And your analysis, sorry opinion, is stuck in the 90s as well. Take a good look at the financial statements of any European bank and you’ll find a commodity industry. The days of profitable banking are gone for now and consequently so are the days of free services. Even the fully online banks are starting to report losses.

    Irish banks are a bit behind in turfing out free loaders - customers whom they can’t make a profit on. They are only starting to introduce fees and negative interest rates, while some mainland European banks have started to close accounts of unprofitable customers.


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    #416
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    It's high time that the pillars of EU were applied to financial services and we had more competition from overseas banks.

    Most banks in the UK offer free banking, although that'll probably change over time. It's fair enough to point to European banks who charge for current accounts, but they also charge far less for products such as mortgages.

    I think another poster hit the nail on the head when they mentioned the airline industry and the inefficient national carriers many of us will remember.

    I'd be interested to see how bad (or not) the fallout will be for BOI here.


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    #417
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    And your analysis, sorry opinion, is stuck in the 90s as well. Take a good look at the financial statements of any European bank and you’ll find a commodity industry. The days of profitable banking are gone for now and consequently so are the days of free services. Even the fully online banks are starting to report losses.

    Irish banks are a bit behind in turfing out free loaders - customers whom they can’t make a profit on. They are only starting to introduce fees and negative interest rates, while some mainland European banks have started to close accounts of unprofitable customers.

    The same freeloaders that bailed them out not so long ago.


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    #418
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Car99 wrote: »
    The same freeloaders that bailed them out not so long ago.


    That would be the bailout that never happened. The reality is that the state was forced to take over and recapitalize the banks. The result of which is that the state is now a majority holder and the former shareholders got wiped out as they should have.


    The intention it to bring the banks to a point where they can be sold off and recover the capital. Continuing to have the taxpayer fund free financial services is not part of that plan. Nor should it be.


    Now this tread is about finding alternative services etc....


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    #419
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    hardybuck wrote: »
    It's high time that the pillars of EU were applied to financial services and we had more competition from overseas banks.


    All EU directives on banking are applied, European banks are free to establish in the state, passport services if they wish etc.... so what exactly are you referring to?


    The reality is that on EU bank is going to be motivated to enter a market where they know they will loose money...


    hardybuck wrote: »
    It's fair enough to point to European banks who charge for current accounts, but they also charge far less for products such as mortgages.



    That has long been debated on AskAboutMoney.... the reality is that banks don't like to enter foreign markets when it comes mortgages because when they do they almost always loose. And institutional investors tend to come down hard on boards of directors how suggest doing it.



    I think another poster hit the nail on the head when they mentioned the airline industry and the inefficient national carriers many of us will remember.


    But most of the budget airlines when bust and those that survived have failed to build the necessary capital structures to deal with the current fall out, hell even BA are now selling of the furniture.


    So that did not work out well, but it is not surprising, it because a commodity industry and most players suffered as a result and that is what is happening to banking right now as well - a race to the bottom.



    I'd be interested to see how bad (or not) the fallout will be for BOI here.


    Since the objective is to reduce non fee paying customers and concentrate on fee payers, the more that leave the better. You are effectively pushing loss makers onto your competitors. Eventually they will have to react as well - no one can to continue giving their services away for free over the long haul.


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    #420
    major interest
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭major interest


    Shinsen wrote: »
    Dear all,

    You're probably aware of the new bank account charges introduced by Bank of Ireland (and soon to be introduced by AIB, as far as I understood).
    Could I please ask for the vision of BOI's clients?
    Will you be continuing keeping your account with BOI or have you been thinking of moving into another bank?
    I used to avail of the free charges by keeping my balance not lower than a certain amount but now I am going to be charged no matter what.
    Thank you for advising.

    In the process of closing BOI current account and opening an account with KBC. The KBC account offers free banking if you lodge at least €2,000 per month (e.g. salary). The online offering is also reputed to be better.


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    #421
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    major interest wrote: »
    In the process of closing BOI current account and opening an account with KBC. The KBC account offers free banking if you lodge at least €2,000 per month (e.g. salary). The online offering is also reputed to be better.

    Have been with KBC for a couple of years for my joint account and just moved my personal account there from BOI. Much better online and you can avail of the bonus savings rate too.


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