BOI Alternatives-New Charges

JTMan

hardybuck wrote: »

What are the odds of some of the other banks announcing changes to their fees structure in or around when the 2021 Budget is announced on Oct 13th!?

The CBI has received 12 applications to hike fees. There are more fee increases coming.

if I was a bank id wait a good year or two until I got all the customers over that fled from BOI

Banks should be more focused on what they are going to do with the tidal wave of customers from Ulster Bank if/when they close. KBC, AIB, BoI, PTSB, N26, EBS and Revolut should all be building strategies as to how to attract UB customers, that is if they want them.

hognef

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well you better get ready for a shock then....

The banking industry has successfully turned itself into a commodity industry, we’re now just waiting for the catalyst to start the consolidation to kick off. UBS & CS are in negotiation, DB are in negotiation with an undisclosed party and there are rumblings in Spain as well.

Most likely we’ll end up with 7 or 8 level one banks and 15 to 20 level 2 banks in Europe, the rest will be just name plates. And once the excess capacity has been removed the fees will start to climb.

That might take a while. Many countries have significantly more banking options than Ireland. Norway, for example, has around 150 banks, most of which operate in the normal consumer market and offer all the normal consumer products. That's with a population not much larger than Ireland's.

Jim2007

JTMan wrote: »

Banks should be more focused on what they are going to do with the tidal wave of customers from Ulster Bank if/when they close. KBC, AIB, BoI, PTSB, N26, EBS and Revolut should all be building strategies as to how to attract UB customers, that is if they want them.

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

if I was a bank id wait a good year or two until I got all the customers over that fled from BOI

Why would you want to take on customers who don’t want to pay for the services you provide? The reason that BOI is getting shot of them is because they can’t make money out of them. Sometimes more is not better, it’s just more. And in this case it will diminish profits.

Jim2007

hognef wrote: »

That might take a while. Many countries have significantly more banking options than Ireland. Norway, for example, has around 150 banks, most of which operate in the normal consumer market and offer all the normal consumer products. That's with a population not much larger than Ireland's.

Norway is not part of the single market for financial services and the lack of sophistication in the Norwegian market is astonishing to me. I’ve worked with two banking clients there in the past, both issuing fund performance reports that were completely out of date because the software had stopped working several months earlier and neither the banks nor their customers noticed!

JTMan

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why would you want to take on customers who don’t want to pay for the services you provide?

Ulster Bank customers are already, in the main, paying fees. Hence, some UB customers will be willing to pay fees elsewhere. (The smart ones will go with the free options.)

What I was saying is that all the banks need to build strategies as to what they are going to do with the Ulster Bank tidal wave.

If the bank has (1) a profitable current account product or (2) manages to get a significant portion of new customers to pay for a premium offering or (3) has worked out that by offering a subsidised current account product then the bank is able to profit off the fact that some customers will take other services ... then the bank should be building strategies to deal with/attract the Ulster Bank tidal wave that could begin in the coming weeks.

If the bank has a largely-free current account product, no premium offering and the sums do not add up with cross subsidisation, then the bank needs to work out how to make their current account offering profitable. They might want to act urgently because the flood of money from Ulster Bank is likely to be coming and as you said Jim a bigger base with an unprofitable product will just diminish profits further.

Neowise

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why would you want to take on customers who don’t want to pay for the services you provide? The reason that BOI is getting shot of them is because they can’t make money out of them. Sometimes more is not better, it’s just more. And in this case it will diminish profits.

I've banked with BOI since for ~25 years.
Ive held a balance of €3k since they asked for that in exchange for no fees.
They have since then introduced quarterly €5 fees.
They are now scrapping the quarterly fees of €5 and introducing €6 monthly fees for everyone no matter what balance you hold on in your account.


A 1000 customers maintaining a balance of €3000 would give boi €3,000,000 to loan out.

It is suspected that due to cheap ECB money, hey have decided to take it instead of holding onto the customers.
I got my mortgage and house insurance and life assurance with BOI.
If i was not a current account customer of theirs, the likely hood is I would have shopped around and found a better match, but as i was a customer already, it seemed like the easy option, so i went that way.
BOI may not have gotten more than the €20 in annual fees for the current account, but they got plenty of money from all the other services I bought of them over the years, and they got that business because I felt that they were my bank.


If they discard all those current account holders 'who don’t want to pay for the services [they] provide', maybe they will find that those people are less likely to use all there other very profitable services as they are now with another bank and will use their services instead.

whatever76

Neowise wrote: »

I've banked with BOI since for ~25 years.
Ive held a balance of €3k since they asked for that in exchange for no fees.
They have since then introduced quarterly €5 fees.
They are now scrapping the quarterly fees of €5 and introducing €6 monthly fees for everyone no matter what balance you hold on in your account.


A 1000 customers maintaining a balance of €3000 would give boi €3,000,000 to loan out.

It is suspected that due to cheap ECB money, hey have decided to take it instead of holding onto the customers.
I got my mortgage and house insurance and life assurance with BOI.
If i was not a current account customer of theirs, the likely hood is I would have shopped around and found a better match, but as i was a customer already, it seemed like the easy option, so i went that way.
BOI may not have gotten more than the €20 in annual fees for the current account, but they got plenty of money from all the other services I bought of them over the years, and they got that business because I felt that they were my bank.


If they discard all those current account holders 'who don’t want to pay for the services [they] provide', maybe they will find that those people are less likely to use all there other very profitable services as they are now with another bank and will use their services instead.

v well put ! Its like I wrote that myself I am in same position as you and went with BOI as they were my bank for mortgage and it was easier and I got great Customer service etc . I have no issues with paying service fees on current account - I get that. Its the sales pitch of them flat lining the charge to 6 euro a month bull**** to make it easier on Customer drove me crazy not to mind the substantial increase - Id have accepted 8 or 10 euro charge per quarter if keeping 3k in account per but this bold 6 euro a month regardless now thought a bit much !

hognef

Jim2007 wrote: »

Norway is not part of the single market for financial services and the lack of sophistication in the Norwegian market is astonishing to me. I’ve worked with two banking clients there in the past, both issuing fund performance reports that were completely out of date because the software had stopped working several months earlier and neither the banks nor their customers noticed!

Germany have over 400 banks, Sweden 80 or so, Finland, Denmark also have lots of banks. I'm sure they're not alone.

I'm not sure your experience is representative of the sophistication of Norwegian banks, or perhaps it's in a different context from the one I'm thinking of. Do you have any experience with receiving and paying bills for example? Applying for mortgages? Setting up new accounts?

(Consumer) banking in Norway is fully integrated, bills land directly into your online bank(s), you have full control of your "direct debits" (set up on the fly via online banking, not via the vendor, for example), etc. Applying for, accepting and arranging mortgages are fully online processes, and have been for nearly two decades now. I can create a new account in seconds through online banking, available to use immediately. Some of the banking apps and web sites are significantly more sophisticated than anything I've come across elsewhere (obviously haven't tried them all, but the best one here, AIB, doesn't even compare with the best one in Norway, Sbanken).

theglobe

'The new costs will apply to accounts from November, but will not be charged to accounts until the end of next March.' From aib. Does this mean that current customers won't be charged until March? When do the new charges start for current BOI customers?

Delta2113

23 November 2020 BOI.

coylemj

theglobe wrote: »

'The new costs will apply to accounts from November, but will not be charged to accounts until the end of next March.' From aib. Does this mean that current customers won't be charged until March? When do the new charges start for current BOI customers?

As Delta2113 says above, they will apply from Nov 23rd but from that date to the end of the year will be treated as a single calendar month. And from Jan. 2021, the charge will be applied to your account 'on the last banking day of each calendar month'.

The new monthly fee will be charged to personal customers for the first time on 31 December 2020. This will cover the month of December. It will appear on your account statement as Fee: maintaining acc.

31 December 2020 is also the date that personal customers will be charged the old-style quarterly transactions fees for the last time. The fees will appear on your account statement as Current Account Fees or Notified Fees and will relate to the previous fee quarter, 24 August – 22 November 2020.

While both of these charges are applied on the 31 December 2020, they cover two different fee charging periods as outlined above. This is the only time you will be charged fees for two different periods at one time.

https://www.bankofireland.com/personal-current-account-fee-change/

Hibernicis

Jim2007 wrote: »

Sometimes more is not better, it’s just more.

There are businesses that have spent tens of billions learning that truth. You should copyright that phrase, and write a book with that title.

JimmyVik

coylemj wrote: »

As Delta2113 says above, they will apply from Nov 23rd but from that date to the end of the year will be treated as a single calendar month. And from Jan. 2021, the charge will be applied to your account 'on the last banking day of each calendar month'.

https://www.bankofireland.com/personal-current-account-fee-change/

So theyll catch thousands of people for fees for a few months before they even notice on their statements

coylemj

JimmyVik wrote: »

So theyll catch thousands of people for fees for a few months before they even notice on their statements

There is a mobile app and you can check your account on the BoI website. Anyone who only checks their current account every three months when they get their quarterly statement probably won't be too bothered about a piddling €6 per month account maintenance fee.

silenoz

I signed up with an EBS MoneyManager account with the intention of switching from BoI. I still haven't closed my BoI account.
To sign up with EBS I had to call in-branch twice during working hours.
Wait for receipt of five letters.
Had to Ring EBS to activate a code (20mins).
Try to log in using two different numbers.
Download an App to authenticate, using three different numbers.

...and couldn't log in due to 'Technical Difficulties'. Tried multiple times using multiple browsers.

I tried resetting everything and ending up losing access to the authenticator.
Rang EBS again (another 20min call)
Waited for another letter.
Used the authenticator with the new authentication code.
Tried to log in.

...'Technical Difficulties'!
Tried several times, several browsers.

Conclusion: You can't use Internet banking with EBS.

jeffk

You're doing better than me, I had to wait from 16 September till 21 October for second appointment to setup my account

Sultan of Bling

jeffk wrote:

You're doing better than me, I had to wait from 16 September till 21 October for second appointment to setup my account

They don't want you as a customer just like boi don't want you because most customers will be loss making.

They've been sending letters out to their existing customers advising they will only allow a certain limit on savings snd current accounts.

It's only a matter of time before they and others introduce similar charges to boi to make things "easier for us".

jeffk

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

They don't want you as a customer just like boi don't want you because most customers will be loss making.

They've been sending letters out to their existing customers advising they will only allow a certain limit on savings snd current accounts.

It's only a matter of time before they and others introduce similar charges to boi to make things "easier for us".

I definitely got that feeling.

Worse case I just put my money in credit union and use it to keep revolut topped up and use that as my bank with about E200 in it unless more needed

calfmuscle

jeffk wrote: »

I definitely got that feeling.

Worse case I just put my money in credit union and use it to keep revolut topped up and use that as my bank with about E200 in it unless more needed

Look into n26

jeffk

calfmuscle wrote: »

Look into n26

I have revolut setup ages to cover BOI in the dark ages re Google pay, phone tap etc

If I was to start again maybe I'd go N26, seem to be more like a proper bank

bugsyb4

We moved from BOI to KBC because of those ridiculous charges they brought in and did it just before they were due to take third quarter fees last month so nice little small victory where they wrote off maintenance fee of €5 on each of our 3 accounts we had with them!

Already had a joint account set up a few years ago with KBC to avail of better interest rate on our mortgage as gets rate down by 0.20% so had an idea of how they operate. I have nothing negative to report on them the one thing I miss from BOI is been able to see your balance on mortgage account but this is just a simple phone call away if need to know so doesn't bother me that much. I had threatened for years to move everything from BOI as have no loyalty to any bank but due to laziness and herself not wanting to stuck with them so glad they brought in these new changes and got me to act!!

For anyone that doesn't know all you need to do is make sure 2k hits the account to have no fees so for me my wages get paid into our joint account and then move them to my personal account so covers me and wife does the same! I am under no illusions that in time KBC might bring in fees too but for now am happy with switch and if they are getting lots of customers like ourselves moving whose to say they will keep their accounts fee-less going forward!

esposito

bugsyb4 wrote: »

We moved from BOI to KBC because of those ridiculous charges they brought in and did it just before they were due to take third quarter fees last month so nice little small victory where they wrote off maintenance fee of €5 on each of our 3 accounts we had with them!

Already had a joint account set up a few years ago with KBC to avail of better interest rate on our mortgage as gets rate down by 0.20% so had an idea of how they operate. I have nothing negative to report on them the one thing I miss from BOI is been able to see your balance on mortgage account but this is just a simple phone call away if need to know so doesn't bother me that much. I had threatened for years to move everything from BOI as have no loyalty to any bank but due to laziness and herself not wanting to stuck with them so glad they brought in these new changes and got me to act!!

For anyone that doesn't know all you need to do is make sure 2k hits the account to have no fees so for me my wages get paid into our joint account and then move them to my personal account so covers me and wife does the same! I am under no illusions that in time KBC might bring in fees too but for now am happy with switch and if they are getting lots of customers like ourselves moving whose to say they will keep their accounts fee-less going forward!

What’s their internet banking/ mobile app like? I’m considering joining them.

Was going to switch to EBS but the above posts are putting me off!

silenoz

silenoz wrote: »

I signed up with an EBS MoneyManager account with the intention of switching from BoI. I still haven't closed my BoI account.
To sign up with EBS I had to call in-branch twice during working hours.
Wait for receipt of five letters.
Had to Ring EBS to activate a code (20mins).
Try to log in using two different numbers.
Download an App to authenticate, using three different numbers.

...and couldn't log in due to 'Technical Difficulties'. Tried multiple times using multiple browsers.

I tried resetting everything and ending up losing access to the authenticator.
Rang EBS again (another 20min call)
Waited for another letter.
Used the authenticator with the new authentication code.
Tried to log in.

...'Technical Difficulties'!
Tried several times, several browsers.

Conclusion: You can't use Internet banking with EBS.

Update on this
Rang EBS again early today, 10 min call, the guy there told me he'd get the account set up. Apparently not set up previously even though they sent me all the details and I rang them to register previously...(?)
After being assured that I could now log in, I tried. No joy, same error.

Rang later in the day, 15 min call, assured again that this time it would work. Even put on hold while the guy talked to someone else about it.
Tried logging in... Yes. Finally got going.

That was easy. Only two trips into town during work, four phone calls, five or six letters and a few weeks of correspondence.

Stay on the line by the computer until you know you can log in successfully.

hardybuck

esposito wrote: »

What’s their internet banking/ mobile app like? I’m considering joining them.

Was going to switch to EBS but the above posts are putting me off!

KBC mobile app is excellent.

L1011

BOI called me today to get the OK on their side of a transfer, e.g. redirect direct debits. Asked why I was leaving

The response to "your charges are the highest going" was "oh, we thought that might be the case"!

Will need to get my partner to move after I've made sure it goes OK for me, purely to re-gain instantaneous transfers which we had as both BOI customers; but with an eternal student account they seem to have forgotten about there's no charges there.

Applied to move mortgage to KBC also, 2.25% vs 2.9% doesn't make much difference on my current balance but if they'll take it and give the 3k switching bonus that'll be quite nice.

Moved the savings already, 0.01% vs 0% isn't going to be noticed though. Still keeping the BOI credit card for the Avios; but they likely don't make a cent on that as I've no balance.

bugsyb4

esposito wrote: »

What’s their internet banking/ mobile app like? I’m considering joining them.

Was going to switch to EBS but the above posts are putting me off!

Sorry only seen this now.

Both excellent just if you need to see where your up to date balance is coming from need to use online banking as it greys out stuff that has not yet been processed. The mobile app will show you current balance and available funds but you might not be able to tell where the difference between these 2 amounts is coming from without using online banking if that makes sense!

The mobile app is excellent if you do investments with KBC which we do. We recently moved our mortgage from BOI to KBC also so have everything with them now bar a couple of young saver accounts with BOI which from what I can see is the only area where they are competitive!!

Might be no harm going into a hub if nearby as we deal with Limerick branch and if any issues have a contact in there who can reach out to.

JimmyVik

I used to be with Ulsterbank.
I moved a good few years to revolut and N26 and havent looked back since.
The amount Ulsterbank were charging didnt seem that much at the time, but I added up recently how much I would have spent on charges with Ulsterbank.
I reckon over the last few years ive saved enough money to buy a playstation 5, in banking fees since ditching ulsterbank.
It adds up over the years. Would you rather have that money in your pocket or BOIs

The J Stands for Jay

JimmyVik wrote: »

I used to be with Ulsterbank.
I moved a good few years to revolut and N26 and havent looked back since.
The amount Ulsterbank were charging didnt seem that much at the time, but I added up recently how much I would have spent on charges with Ulsterbank.
I reckon over the last few years ive saved enough money to buy a playstation 5, in banking fees since ditching ulsterbank.
It adds up over the years. Would you rather have that money in your pocket or BOIs

I made the switch from Ulster to N26 in late 2016. I used to make back the charges in the 25% Ticketmaster cashback, but at the end I'd need to be spending €480 a year on tickets to break even.

Hibernicis

JimmyVik wrote: »

I used to be with Ulsterbank.
I moved a good few years to revolut and N26 and havent looked back since.
The amount Ulsterbank were charging didnt seem that much at the time, but I added up recently how much I would have spent on charges with Ulsterbank.
I reckon over the last few years ive saved enough money to buy a playstation 5, in banking fees since ditching ulsterbank.
It adds up over the years. Would you rather have that money in your pocket or BOIs

I've stayed with Ulster and am fortunate to have €3,000 that I can keep in my C/A to minimise the charges (paying only the A/C maintenance fee of €2 per month, €24 per annum). On the odd occasion that my account balance dips below €3,000 the charges for my not very busy account are €10-€15 for the month and I certainly wouldn't like to be paying €120-€180 annually. So I'll be waiting to see whether Ulster follow BOI's lead, or decide to pack their bags altogether.

In the meantime I'm almost at the end of shutting down my BOI accounts.

Rewired

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

They've been sending letters out to their existing customers advising they will only allow a certain limit on savings snd current accounts.

What kind of limit?