Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Sam Russell · 29-04-2019 2:14pm

Qrt wrote: »

I think Cross Guns would be a better name tbh.

Actually, I'd agree it does sound good. Glasnevin is just wrong.

Grandeeod · 29-04-2019 7:49pm

Cross Guns sounds good alright. Glasnevin junction was the original name given to this proposed interchange in 2005 when MN was undergoing route selection. A proposal that came during a meeting with MN consultants and interested parties. My favourite part of ML is this particular part because the value of Glasnevin junction was finally realised. I hope IE play ball if the TBM gets in the ground.

marno21 · 29-04-2019 7:55pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Cross Guns sounds good alright. Glasnevin junction was the original name given to this proposed interchange in 2005 when MN was undergoing route selection. A proposal that came during a meeting with MN consultants and interested parties. My favourite part of ML is this particular part because the value of Glasnevin junction was finally realised. I hope IE play ball if the TBM gets in the ground.

It has a reasonably good chance of happening now that it's all NTA driven. Much more likely than with competing organisations trying to agree on things.

LXFlyer · 29-04-2019 8:01pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, I'd agree it does sound good. Glasnevin is just wrong.

It's not actually - go and look at the old OSI map from 1888-1913 at http://map.geohive.ie/ and you'll see that the area where Glasnevin Junction is located is actually shown as part of Glasnevin. Hence the name.

Alvin Holler · 29-04-2019 8:08pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

It's not actually - go and look at the old OSI map from 1888-1913 at http://map.geohive.ie/ and you'll see that the area where Glasnevin Junction is located is actually shown as part of Glasnevin. Hence the name.

And it's across the road from where Glasnevin train station used to be.

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20G/Glasnevin/IrishRailwayStations.html

Sam Russell · 29-04-2019 8:11pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

It's not actually - go and look at the old OSI map from 1888-1913 at http://map.geohive.ie/ and you'll see that the area where Glasnevin Junction is located is actually shown as part of Glasnevin. Hence the name.

Place names move. 1913 is over a century ago. Glasnevin Avenue used be called Ballymun Avenue. The locals wanted it changed for some reason.

LXFlyer · 29-04-2019 8:57pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Place names move. 1913 is over a century ago. Glasnevin Avenue used be called Ballymun Avenue. The locals wanted it changed for some reason.

Really?

Road name changes may change, but are a different kettle of fish to townlands.

Townlands don't change.

I'm not saying your suggestion doesn't have merit, but to say that that area is not part of Glasnevin is wrong and that map proves it.

Grandeeod · 29-04-2019 9:02pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Really?

Road name changes may change, but are a different kettle of fish to townlands.

Townlands don't change.

I'm not saying your suggestion doesn't have merit, but to say that that area is not part of Glasnevin is wrong and that map proves it.

It'll always be Glasnevin Junction to me.:D

Sam Russell · 29-04-2019 9:06pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Really?

Road name changes may change, but are a different kettle of fish to townlands.

Townlands don't change.

I'm not saying your suggestion doesn't have merit, but to say that that area is not part of Glasnevin is wrong and that map proves it.

OK, Shannon Airport was in the townland of Rineanna, and the airport was originally called after the townland. Dublin Airport was called Collinsown after the townland but renamed later.

So names do change over time. You can check the OS maps to see what the airports were called in 1913.

marno21 · 29-04-2019 9:10pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

OK, Shannon Airport was in the townland of Rihanna, and the airport was originally called after the townland. Dublin Airport was called Collinsown after the townland but renamed later.

So names do change over time. You can check the OS maps to see what the airports were called in 1913.

*Rineanna. I sincerely hope that was a phone autocorrect.

Indeed, but there is only one airport in both and it's easier for those unfamiliar with the area to call it by its served area. People from Kerry call Kerry Airport Farranfore, people from Cork call Cork Airport Ballygarvan and people from Donegal call their airport Carrickfin, Galway Carnmore etc.

Sam Russell · 29-04-2019 9:18pm

marno21 wrote: »

*Rineanna. I sincerely hope that was a phone autocorrect.

Indeed, but there is only one airport in both and it's easier for those unfamiliar with the area to call it by its served area. People from Kerry call Kerry Airport Farranfore, people from Cork call Cork Airport Ballygarvan and people from Donegal call their airport Carrickfin, Galway Carnmore etc.

Well, Glasnevin is known for the Met Eireann office, the Botanic Gardens, and the cemetry. The Metrolink station is over a km away. It needs a different name.

marno21 · 29-04-2019 9:25pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, Glasnevin is known for the Met Eireann office, the Botanic Gardens, and the cemetry. The Metrolink station is over a km away. It needs a different name.

Dalcassian Downs, part of which was to be CPO'd for this station, is Glasnevin: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/court-hears-man-with-38-previous-burglary-convictions-used-the-dart-and-luas-to-case-homes-846005.html

The Brian Boru Pub, which is where the station will be, have their address as 5 Prospect Road, Glasnevin, Dublin 9: http://www.thebrianboru.ie/contact/

It seems Glasnevin to me anyway.

Grandeeod · 29-04-2019 9:27pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, Glasnevin is known for the Met Eireann office, the Botanic Gardens, and the cemetry. The Metrolink station is over a km away. It needs a different name.

It needs to get built first. We'll worry about the name when they are putting the boards up.:D We could even throw a curve ball and name it after the people who came up with routing a Metro through it.:eek:

marno21 · 29-04-2019 9:31pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

It needs to get built first. We'll worry about the name when they are putting the boards up.:D We could even throw a curve ball and name it after the people who came up with routing a Metro through it.:eek:

Would you like to do us the honour of putting in a FoI for the names of the people on the Metrolink design team so we can get to work on that speculation here?

LXFlyer · 29-04-2019 9:33pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, Glasnevin is known for the Met Eireann office, the Botanic Gardens, and the cemetry. The Metrolink station is over a km away. It needs a different name.

Ah Sam stop digging - you may not know that location as part of Glasnevin but I'm afraid it is part of it, whether you view it or not.

As I said before - the station can be called whatever the NTA wish, but telling me that it is not located in the area that it legally is, is daft.

Grandeeod · 29-04-2019 9:46pm

marno21 wrote: »

Would you like to do us the honour of putting in a FoI for the names of the people on the Metrolink design team so we can get to work on that speculation here?

Ah Marno, the FOI request would only throw up names for the sake of it!;) They are officially on the ML design team I suppose, yet not really.:D

But in these modern times Cross Guns and its difficult Irish translation would be acceptable. The location is perfect under the current Metro proposal. That's in no doubt.

Shedite27 · 29-04-2019 10:03pm

The Clontarf Road station is a similar one. Obviously in its meant to refer to "the road to clontarf" but gets shortened reguarly to "Clontarf" which every estate agent selling in Fariview/Marino uses to blur the lines. Always wondered why it wasn't called Fairview dart station.

Limerick Junction was one that always confused me as a child. Always thought the locals of Tipperary Town were short changed on that one.

Qrt · 29-04-2019 10:06pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Ah Marno, the FOI request would only throw up names for the sake of it!;) They are officially on the ML design team I suppose, yet not really.:D

But in these modern times Cross Guns and its difficult Irish translation would be acceptable. The location is perfect under the current Metro proposal. That's in no doubt.

Na Gunnaí Chrosáilte or Crois na Gunnaí (insert applicable tuiseal guinideach here)

marno21 · 29-04-2019 10:06pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

The Clontarf Road station is a similar one. Obviously in its meant to refer to "the road to clontarf" but gets shortened reguarly to "Clontarf" which every estate agent selling in Fariview/Marino uses to blur the lines. Always wondered why it wasn't called Fairview dart station.

Limerick Junction was one that always confused me as a child. Always thought the locals of Tipperary Town were short changed on that one.

Well in fairness Tipperary Town does have its own station. Limerick Junction is useful in telling people to change here for Limerick on non direct services.

Alvin Holler · 29-04-2019 10:35pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, Glasnevin is known for the Met Eireann office, the Botanic Gardens, and the cemetry. The Metrolink station is over a km away. It needs a different name.

It's not!!

The proposed station about 300m from the walls of the cemetery and around 200m more would have you in the entrance at the gravediggers.

Sam Russell · 30-04-2019 8:53am

The old joke about Irish Railway stations was that they were never near the centre of where they were serving. The tourist asks why this was, and the local answers that 'we like the stations to be near the railway lines!'

Belfast Central is not central to Belfast.

I like the Cross Guns name.

Sam Russell · 30-04-2019 8:58am

Alvin Holler wrote: »

It's not!!

The proposed station about 300m from the walls of the cemetery and around 200m more would have you in the entrance at the gravediggers.

Well, it is just across the canal from Broadstone, and the station is 1.2 km from the Met Eireann office. It is on the southern edge of the Glasnevin townland.

MJohnston · 30-04-2019 10:30am

Sam Russell wrote: »

The old joke about Irish Railway stations was that they were never near the centre of where they were serving. The tourist asks why this was, and the local answers that 'we like the stations to be near the railway lines!'

Belfast Central is not central to Belfast.

I like the Cross Guns name.

Belfast Central is no longer called that, btw.

The location of this Cross Guns station straddles the modern divide between Phibsboro and Glasnevin, and I think it would be weird to call it either. Griffith Park is much more of a "Glasnevin" station if I ever saw one.

As an aside, I've been buying a house recently and it's hilarious the extent to which people will go to convince others their Ballymun-located house is actually in "Glasnevin North" or somesuch.

bk · 30-04-2019 11:10am

marno21 wrote: »

people from Cork call Cork Airport Ballygarvan

What?!! No they don't, I've never once heard it called that!!

Source, from Cork, everyone in Cork just calls it Cork Airport or just, The Airport.

BTW I like Cross and Gun and agree that it would cause less confusion then Glasnevin. A cool name and more neutral given the areas it straddles. It would quickly become the name for that area in between.

marno21 · 30-04-2019 11:21am

bk wrote: »

What?!! No they don't, I've never once heard it called that!!

Source, from Cork, everyone in Cork just calls it Cork Airport or just, The Airport.

BTW I like Cross and Gun and agree that it would cause less confusion then Glasnevin. A cool name and more neutral given the areas it straddles. It would quickly become the name for that area in between.

I should have said SOME people from Cork refer to it as Ballygarvan, the same way some people from other areas refer to their airports by where they are rather than their name. Although compared to Carrickfin/Farranfore, Ballygarvan would be a lot less used in Cork than in Kerry/Donegal.

bk · 30-04-2019 11:52am

marno21 wrote: »

I should have said SOME people from Cork refer to it as Ballygarvan, the same way some people from other areas refer to their airports by where they are rather than their name. Although compared to Carrickfin/Farranfore, Ballygarvan would be a lot less used in Cork than in Kerry/Donegal.

I'm sure there is someone living in Ballygarvan that calls it that. But I've never once heard anyone from Cork City call it that. Most people probably don't even know that the airport is in Ballygarvan. In fact until you post, I had never even thought about it!

If someone in Cork said to were going to Ballygarvan for a flight, you'd be looked at like you lost your mind. It would be as weird as someone in Dublin saying their going to Collinstown for a flight. Imagine asking a taxi driver to drive to Collinstown, lol.

Sam Russell · 30-04-2019 12:28pm

Mod: Can we get back to the Metrolink, please.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 30-04-2019 12:50pm

Asset location: Glasnevin
Asset function: Junction

Sure let's just call it Cross Guns/White Spot/Hedigans for the laugh. Give tourists a hard time finding the Glasnevin Museum and Geneology centre (cemetery).

Dats me · 30-04-2019 1:12pm

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Asset location: Glasnevin
Asset function: Junction

Sure let's just call it Cross Guns/White Spot/Hedigans for the laugh. Give tourists a hard time finding the Glasnevin Museum and Geneology centre (cemetery).

It's not being built for tourists - and as people have said above it's at the very edge of Glasnevin, Phibsborough shopping center is a 5 min walk from it. In fact I saw a local councillor's submission objecting to the naming as "Phibsborough" would be more appropriate!

Busman Paddy Lasty · 30-04-2019 1:47pm

Dats me wrote: »

It's not being built for tourists - and as people have said above it's at the very edge of Glasnevin, Phibsborough shopping center is a 5 min walk from it. In fact I saw a local councillor's submission objecting to the naming as "Phibsborough" would be more appropriate!

Yes that's true and tourists was just an example. Naming it Phibsboro is sort of fine because it's a well known place, as is Glasnevin (although the location is not in Phibsboro).

Once it's built I'll take Cross Guns or Phibsboro so long as there's a Metro to get in the first place.

MJohnston · 30-04-2019 1:55pm

Speaking of tourism - it'd be good to see the Cross Guns/Glasnevin/Phibsboro station encourage the idea of a pedestrian bridge crossing the Royal Canal and the train line somewhere here:

This would provide easy access from that station to Cabra Luas stop (and in reverse: easy access to the Metro station for most of the people of Cabra East), as well as a more tourist/pedestrian friendly route to access Glasnevin Cemetery (the Finglas Road is not pedestrian friendly).

I'd like to see this as a standalone project, mind you, but I think the building of this station could provide another reason to do it.

LongboardPro · 30-04-2019 7:08pm

I feel like having "Gun" in a station name would be controversial for some reason.

salmocab · 30-04-2019 7:12pm

Cross Guns actually sounds like a train station name to me for some reason. It sounds like the name of a tube station in London. I realize it’s not rational but yo my ear it works

Sam Russell · 30-04-2019 7:14pm

LongboardPro wrote: »

I feel like having "Gun" in a station name would be controversial for some reason.

Well they have Gunnersbury tube station - it is near Chiswick in London.

jd · 30-04-2019 7:15pm

I think Cross Guns would be a great name and easy to remember .
Also the Metro will be going across two Dart Lines, so kind of apt too.

gjim · 30-04-2019 8:00pm

Actually the townland where the station will be is called Crossguns apparently which you can see with Openstreetmap's townlands layer for Ireland: http://dev3.openstreetmap.ie/osm/slippymap.html?zoom=17&lat=53.36544&lon=-6.27254&layers=B00FTFFFFFFFFFFF

Googling, revealed some history of the townland here: https://www.facebook.com/GlasnevinHeritage/photos/cross-gunscrossgunsa-pageviewer-asked-us-about-cross-guns-and-asked-if-it-is-in-/548970778586927/

Not sure whether the question belongs here or in the DART expansion thread but is it planned to allow PPT trains to switch to the Midlands line into town at this location? I don't know if introducing the trackwork to allow such movements is feasible or desirable at this point? But it would be nice to be able to route some Kildare DARTs to the Docklands as an alternative to competing for slots in Connolly.

Qrt · 30-04-2019 8:31pm

LongboardPro wrote: »

I feel like having "Gun" in a station name would be controversial for some reason.

At least it's better than the neighbouring townland of Slutsend.

CatInABox · 30-04-2019 8:50pm

gjim wrote: »

Not sure whether the question belongs here or in the DART expansion thread but is it planned to allow PPT trains to switch to the Midlands line into town at this location? I don't know if introducing the trackwork to allow such movements is feasible or desirable at this point? But it would be nice to be able to route some Kildare DARTs to the Docklands as an alternative to competing for slots in Connolly.

Yes, they're planning on changing the layout of the tracks there to allow PPT trains to swap over, it's one of the first things they're going to do. This is because the line that currently goes through the PPT will be severed during the construction of Glasnevin (preferably Crossguns) station, so all trains will be sent down the docklands line instead.

Qrt · 30-04-2019 9:02pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, they're planning on changing the layout of the tracks there to allow PPT trains to swap over, it's one of the first things they're going to do. This is because the line that currently goes through the PPT will be severed during the construction of Glasnevin (preferably Crossguns) station, so all trains will be sent down the docklands line instead.

A Ballybough station wouldn't go amiss so.

jd · 30-04-2019 9:19pm

It mightn't be a bad idea for those of us who like the idea of naming the station "Cross Guns Station" to say so in our submissions.

Qrt · 30-04-2019 10:23pm

jd wrote: »

It mightn't be a bad idea for those of us who like the idea of naming the station "Cross Guns Station" to say so in our submissions.

It was basically my entire submission really, I'm a southsider (one of the good ones, i.e. west of Terenure) so the nitty gritty isn't a big deal for me, basically said get on with it!

BonnieSituation · 30-04-2019 11:08pm

LongboardPro wrote: »

I feel like having "Gun" in a station name would be controversial for some reason.

And ending it in Swords?

Won't somebody please think of the children.

designshexagon · 01-05-2019 10:42am

Name aside, an artists impression of the "Glasnevin" station has been released. Looks like a shared main entrance for both rail and metro with 4 sunken above-ground rail platforms. Looks like they are planning escalators that take you directly from the rail platforms down to the metro platforms. Des Kelly Interiors, the Brian Boru pub and a few houses/offices will be demolished.

cgcsb · 01-05-2019 3:48pm

It'd be a real shame if they designed that station like that, leaving the space above the station, at street level to be wasted. 18 Storeys of apartments should be a minimum here, the most well connected point in the country.

Qrt · 01-05-2019 4:15pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It'd be a real shame if they designed that station like that, leaving the space above the station, at street level to be wasted. 18 Storeys of apartments should be a minimum here, the most well connected point in the country.

18? Where did you get that figure from?

Shedite27 · 01-05-2019 4:34pm

Qrt wrote: »

18? Where did you get that figure from?

Tallest building in Cork is 17 stories, gotta be bigger than that obviously

cgcsb · 01-05-2019 4:38pm

Qrt wrote: »

18? Where did you get that figure from?

Structures start to get expensive at a greater rate per m above that.

Shedite27 · 01-05-2019 8:56pm

This thread has got a lot less angry since we cut off the southside

Alvin Holler · 01-05-2019 11:17pm

designshexagon wrote: »

Name aside, an artists impression of the "Glasnevin" station has been released. Looks like a shared main entrance for both rail and metro with 4 sunken above-ground rail platforms. Looks like they are planning escalators that take you directly from the rail platforms down to the metro platforms. Des Kelly Interiors, the Brian Boru pub and a few houses/offices will be demolished.

It's a shame they can't put an underpass and have an entrance on the other side of prospect road.

People connecting from buses from finglas or anyone living in the whitworth, lindsay road, iona areas are going to have to use two sets of traffic lights to cross prospect road to get to the station safely.

Qrt · 01-05-2019 11:22pm

Alvin Holler wrote: »

It's a shame they can't put an underpass and have an entrance on the other side of prospect road.

People connecting from buses from finglas or anyone living in the whitworth, lindsay road, iona areas are going to have to use two sets of traffic lights to cross prospect road to get to the station safely.

I'm sure they'll add another pedestrian crossing to the Whitworth junction if enough people mention it, surprised it's missing at all really.

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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