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Luas Finglas

1356715

Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Reading the tender, they mention "four new stops and a new park and ride". Depending on how you interpret that, it's possible that the "new park and ride" is a fifth stop itself, on the far side of the M50.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Broombridge Luas stop to Charlestown is near enough 4 kms in a straight line. I assume they will turn right after Broombridge, cross the canal, pass in front of Porterhouse Brewing, cross Tolka Valley Park, through the green area, then something like Farnham Drive, Wellmount Road, centre of dual carriageway, turning at McElvaneys.

    (Maybe those tunnels under the M50 at the N2 roundabout are part of this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Reading the tender, they mention "four new stops and a new park and ride". Depending on how you interpret that, it's possible that the "new park and ride" is a fifth stop itself, on the far side of the M50.

    Would have thought that a park and ride also has to be a stop so dont think there will be five stations.

    Also the tender document mentions a new terminus at Charlestown which I can only presume means right in front of the shopping centre and not further north in a field outside the M50, an area which is commonly known as Coldwinters.

    AFAIK the area now referred to as Charlestown only got that name after the shopping centre was built and the area has effectively assumed the name Charlestown after the shopping centre itself. I think older maps used to list the area as Meakstown but now Charlestown is commonly used and refers to the SC and the areas around it.

    In any case I think a P&R right outside Charlestown SC would be choked with traffic and people wont be able to get in/out of it quick enough, thus defeating the purpose. Also theres a big chuck of land there between Joe Duffy motors and the McDonalds/KFC. That land had or else still has planning permission for a retail park with the likes of Woodies. Halfords, etc in it which when built will bring more traffic into the area. The road outside Charlestown SC is already busy and suffers from tailbacks on it at rush hour as it is. If they stick a P&R there too it would only get a lot worse imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yeah had noticed it is down to 4 stops from 7. I think that makes sense for a 4km route.

    I wonder where the Luas might join onto the N2 after going through the Dublin Industrial estate? Opposite where Premier Square apartments are now?

    If a P&R were to go in that car park in front of Charlestown SC it would have to be at least 4 or 5 stories high to handle capacity. Even then that might not be enough. Also you could see traffic backed up in the mornings just to get into a Charlestown P&R from off the N2. P&Rs need to be seemless, if people have to queue 5 or 10 minutes at traffic lights just to get into it then they'll give up and just drive anyway.

    Much better idea would be to run the Luas 500m further north with a terminus and P&R just off the N2 north of the M50. Theres lots of land there at Coldwinters that only has the odd horse grazing on it. Also the N2 at that specific section is six lanes wide so there is space for 2 Luas tracks. A P&R located there would allow commuters from Ashbourne and beyond drive straight into off new slip roads off the N2.

    I think they might terminate luas at the grass verge at Charlestown Place. Them thinking the car park beside it will be the park and ride. I would hope there was a fifth station beyond the M50/N2 with a new 3000 car park and ride. That is what is needed. But that would imply longer then 4km. See link below.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4028829,-6.3060963,3a,75y,202.53h,75.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBMzXi1X_tPF-mEI0sKYg6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah that grass verge is pretty wide and runs all the way up the side of Noyeks Newmans and fronts onto the N2 so definitely good space there for two tram lines.

    The problem is that road Charlestown Place is already jammers at rush hours and putting a park and ride there is only going to make the traffic even worse. Theres two industrial estates either side of the N2 at that point with alot of employees coming and going as well as a lot of trucks serving the entire Parcel Motel/Nightline operation as well as UPS there too.

    Ive only ever used the Red Cow P&R a couple of times but it works because you've direct access to it right off the N7 and when you park up its generally a 2-3 minute walk to the Luas stop. If the Finglas extension P&R goes in front of Charlestown Shopping Centre I could see traffic backed up in the mornings to turn right to get into it and then you might have to go up three or four stories to find a space, then a walk and a lift back down to ground floor and walk to the Luas station. If all that took you 10 or 12 minutes you'd soon be thinking that if you were in your car you'd be in Phibsoro before the tram has even left the station at Charlestown.

    If the powers that be want people to switch modes mid journey then the switch over has to be as fast and as seamless as possible. No point in people switching from car to tram if their journey time goes up instead of down. Eventually congestion charges might take the choice away from many people but its still pretty crap if peoples commute takes longer than it would if the Park and Ride was located in a more accessible location such as north of the M50.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Would it be better to not have a P&R on Luas Finglas and instead have one at Ashbourne with buses direct to the city centre? Having a thousand cars drive 10km each to get on public transport isn't really sustainable, far better to have them drive a short journey and then share a vehicle all the way into the city. Between the individual estate and other lands around Finglas, we should be aiming to fill the Luas with people walking/cycling to stations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Reading the tender, they mention "four new stops and a new park and ride". Depending on how you interpret that, it's possible that the "new park and ride" is a fifth stop itself, on the far side of the M50.

    It says two bridges, assuming one is over the canal/railway and the other crossing the Finglas Road, there is no bridge to cross the M50.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    It says two bridges, assuming one is over the canal/railway and the other crossing the Finglas Road, there is no bridge to cross the M50.

    Hmm. I'd say one over the canal and one over the Tolka valley is more likely, with the Luas following the Finglas road.

    All the info does look like it's the city side of the M50. Disappointing if true, hopefully a public consultation can point out that's going to be pointless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Hmm. I'd say one over the canal and one over the Tolka valley is more likely, with the Luas following the Finglas road.

    All the info does look like it's the city side of the M50. Disappointing if true, hopefully a public consultation can point out that's going to be pointless.


    There will be a public consultation happening this first quarter 2020. So i suggest people here copy and paste their points into an email to them.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    There will be a public consultation happening this first quarter 2020. So i suggest people here copy and paste their points into an email to them.

    Where did you hear this? As far as I know, it won't be until the end of the year.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Would it be better to not have a P&R on Luas Finglas and instead have one at Ashbourne with buses direct to the city centre? Having a thousand cars drive 10km each to get on public transport isn't really sustainable, far better to have them drive a short journey and then share a vehicle all the way into the city. Between the individual estate and other lands around Finglas, we should be aiming to fill the Luas with people walking/cycling to stations.
    I disagree. A bus is simply not going to tempt people out of their cars the way a train or tram will.

    I also disagree that there should be any particular focus on who is using the trams - the priority IMO should be first and foremost to have a public transport system that is useful to PEOPLE no matter their lifestyle. My priorities would be that such an extension should:
    1) Offer enough capacity for all the people who need/want to use it.
    2) Be useful to as many people as possible.

    Admittedly I've only been to Charlestown once or twice but I would share concern about using the area as a Park and Ride. It seems like the area has enough usage with the shopping centre and local residential areas, that is developed as part of the city. Bringing lots of long distance traffic in there does not strike me as a good idea for either the locals or the P&R users.

    The best place for an N2 P&R would be actually off the N2, not beyond it, the whole point of park and ride is that you don't come into the city and avoid the worst congestion, bringing drivers in past the M50 to get the trams isn't really compatible with that. The space in Charlestown should be for the people who live/work/shop there, not through travelers and the resulting congestion would ill suit those changing there at the P&R. The line should be extended beyond the M50 if they want Park and Ride.


  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Where did you hear this? As far as I know, it won't be until the end of the year.


    If you search Finglas Luas you will see new articles stating what has already been discussed about route, 4 stops two bridges, park and ride finish at Charlestown.


    But articles also included the line "A public consultation is expected to be announced over the next few weeks". So we will see if this happens or if it just journalists throwing in that speculative line. Rather then later in the year with the emerging prefrerred route


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    SeanW wrote: »
    I disagree. A bus is simply not going to tempt people out of their cars the way a train or tram will.

    I also disagree that there should be any particular focus on who is using the trams - the priority IMO should be first and foremost to have a public transport system that is useful to PEOPLE no matter their lifestyle. My priorities would be that such an extension should:
    1) Offer enough capacity for all the people who need/want to use it.
    2) Be useful to as many people as possible.

    Admittedly I've only been to Charlestown once or twice but I would share concern about using the area as a Park and Ride. It seems like the area has enough usage with the shopping centre and local residential areas, that is developed as part of the city. Bringing lots of long distance traffic in there does not strike me as a good idea for either the locals or the P&R users.

    The best place for an N2 P&R would be actually off the N2, not beyond it, the whole point of park and ride is that you don't come into the city and avoid the worst congestion, bringing drivers in past the M50 to get the trams isn't really compatible with that. The space in Charlestown should be for the people who live/work/shop there, not through travelers and the resulting congestion would ill suit those changing there at the P&R. The line should be extended beyond the M50 if they want Park and Ride.

    Sounds great but easier said than done. Getting beyond the M50 is going to be extremely expensive. The M50 is well above the ground level either side so going over it would involve rising the track from a long way back which is going to be very difficult given the amount of development around Charlestown SC. Going under requires a very expensive tunnel and again limited space for a portal at Charlestown. How many millions do we have to spend for people who think buses aren't good enough for them.

    Again, let's not pretend hundreds of people each driving 10km to get a tram then driving 10km back is eco friendly. Buses bringing all those people those journeys in the same vehicles is far more efficient and economical. We also want to avoid an existing Green Line situation where one line is expected to serve too big an area with the result being people can't get on. The industrial estate is earmarked for substantial residential development, we shouldn't be facilitating development further out and eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Would it be possible to send the up the Finglas Road, turn onto Charlestown Place, turn onto St Margarets Road and then take the R122 bridge over the M50? That'd get it to the other side right where they were expecting to build the P&R for the MetroWest.

    It'd probably involve making the bridge Luas only, or depending on the frequency, a public transport priority bridge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Or could they not just build the park and ride the far side of m50 and put in a pedestrian bridge to bring people over to the last stop on the city side ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Would it be better to not have a P&R on Luas Finglas and instead have one at Ashbourne with buses direct to the city centre? Having a thousand cars drive 10km each to get on public transport isn't really sustainable, far better to have them drive a short journey and then share a vehicle all the way into the city. Between the individual estate and other lands around Finglas, we should be aiming to fill the Luas with people walking/cycling to stations.

    You mean set up a public transport scheme that doesn't require people to cars first ? , And possibly links to other public transport ...
    Madness ,madness I say ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭newcavanman


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yeah had noticed it is down to 4 stops from 7. I think that makes sense for a 4km route.

    I wonder where the Luas might join onto the N2 after going through the Dublin Industrial estate? Opposite where Premier Square apartments are now?




    If a P&R were to go in that car park in front of Charlestown SC it would have to be at least 4 or 5 stories high to handle capacity. Even then that might not be enough. Also you could see traffic backed up in the mornings just to get into a Charlestown P&R from off the N2. P&Rs need to be seemless, if people have to queue 5 or 10 minutes at traffic lights just to get into it then they'll give up and just drive anyway.

    Much better idea would be to run the Luas 500m further north with a terminus and P&R just off the N2 north of the M50. Theres lots of land there at Coldwinters that only has the odd horse grazing on it. Also the N2 at that specific section is six lanes wide so there is space for 2 Luas tracks. A P&R located there would allow commuters from Ashbourne and beyond drive straight into off new slip roads off the N2.
    Far too much like commonsense. the way these idiots do everything, that will never be done


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Sounds great but easier said than done. Getting beyond the M50 is going to be extremely expensive. The M50 is well above the ground level either side so going over it would involve rising the track from a long way back which is going to be very difficult given the amount of development around Charlestown SC. Going under requires a very expensive tunnel and again limited space for a portal at Charlestown. How many millions do we have to spend for people who think buses aren't good enough for them.

    Again, let's not pretend hundreds of people each driving 10km to get a tram then driving 10km back is eco friendly. Buses bringing all those people those journeys in the same vehicles is far more efficient and economical. We also want to avoid an existing Green Line situation where one line is expected to serve too big an area with the result being people can't get on. The industrial estate is earmarked for substantial residential development, we shouldn't be facilitating development further out and eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on.
    Not sure where to start with this tbh.

    Firstly, Ashbourne already has buses, so I'm not sure how your proposal is really any different to what is in place now. Second, anyone who proposes that more buses into Dublin City Centre will help ANYTHING, very likely has not been there (at peak times at least) in some time. The Luas Cross City made a complete mess of it, creating severe pinch points of tram/bus congestion in particular around Trinity College, I have very distinct memories of spending 2+ hours each way each day on a bus for a short journey, with a good chunk of that (1/2 hour each way each day) trying to get around the mess at College St/Westmoreland St/D'Olier St. Dublin is FAR beyond the point where fooling around with buses is going to do any good. Dublin needs things like the Metro and the Dart Underground. Yesterday. Thirdly (to the extent that you are proposing anything new) your solution only makes sense to people who live in or near Ashbourne, a P&R on the new line itself would serve anyone along or near the N2. Fourth, there would be no need for new tunnels or a massive new gradient to cross the M50, because the M50 runs in a cutting under the R122. A new Luas line could take the R104 St. Margarets Road, turn onto the R122, cross the M50 on that bridge and end in green space just off the N2 and outside the city. Fifth and finally, your concern about P&R users "eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on" can be addressed by making sure that the capacity of thing is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    SeanW wrote: »
    Not sure where to start with this tbh.

    Firstly, Ashbourne already has buses, so I'm not sure how your proposal is really any different to what is in place now. Second, anyone who proposes that more buses into Dublin City Centre will help ANYTHING, very likely has not been there (at peak times at least) in some time. The Luas Cross City made a complete mess of it, creating severe pinch points of tram/bus congestion in particular around Trinity College, I have very distinct memories of spending 2+ hours each way each day on a bus for a short journey, with a good chunk of that (1/2 hour each way each day) trying to get around the mess at College St/Westmoreland St/D'Olier St. Dublin is FAR beyond the point where fooling around with buses is going to do any good. Dublin needs things like the Metro and the Dart Underground. Yesterday. Thirdly (to the extent that you are proposing anything new) your solution only makes sense to people who live in or near Ashbourne, a P&R on the new line itself would serve anyone along or near the N2. Fourth, there would be no need for new tunnels or a massive new gradient to cross the M50, because the M50 runs in a cutting under the R122. A new Luas line could take the R104 St. Margarets Road, turn onto the R122, cross the M50 on that bridge and end in green space just off the N2 and outside the city. Fifth and finally, your concern about P&R users "eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on" can be addressed by making sure that the capacity of thing is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future.

    Your rant about buses need to be reassessed in terms of BusConnects which will bring in big changes. If BusConnects are Luas Finglas we're in place, there would be less cars and buses on the road which would really improve bus journey times from Ashbourne.Taking the road bridge over the M50 for Luas is going to be met with significant opposition, much like closing Dunville Ave. Getting to the other side of the M50 would certainly be the source of significant cost and/or delay.

    We really need to stop looking at Luas as the solution to all our problems. Luas is great but it has limitations and shouldn't be serving areas 10km away. Talk about making sure that the capacity is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future means recognising this reality. If Luas Finglas opened in the morning, it would attract significant numbers of users. It is probably a decade from opening and the population is growing. Lots of apartments at Charlestown SC and Dublin Industrial Estate should be the next Cherrywood (ironically the current Green Line which was to serve Cherrywood is approaching breaking point before any apartments are finished there).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    luas ten km is one thing, its the twenty something km distance that is the issue. Anyway, if they can be upgraded to metro later on, and this is planned for, from the get go, its not a bad way to get the ball rolling...

    the above point about cherrywood is true. But everything here is backwards, so if it means turning a by irish standards good system , totally overloading it, by building around it, which is sustainable, then having to increase the capacity by upgrade to metro etc, that is a good outcome! Its the irish way of doing it, its ridiculous. But they wont address blatant future issues here, until the future is today and causing serious headaches!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    luas ten km is one thing, its the twenty something km distance that is the issue. Anyway, if they can be upgraded to metro later on, and this is planned for, from the get go, its not a bad way to get the ball rolling...

    Twenty something km is not a issue for buses, particularly when there is motorway half the way and there should be (post BusConnects) good quality bus lanes the remainder. In fact, that is the kind of thing buses are perfect for. I doubt this route will be suitable for upgrading to Metro, there won't be the required segregation. It is a route suited to Luas in terms of length and area served, as long as they don't lump a chunk of north county Dublin and the south west corner of Meath onto it to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Twenty something km is not a issue for buses, particularly when there is motorway half the way and there should be (post BusConnects) good quality bus lanes the remainder. In fact, that is the kind of thing buses are perfect for. I doubt this route will be suitable for upgrading to Metro, there won't be the required segregation. It is a route suited to Luas in terms of length and area served, as long as they don't lump a chunk of north county Dublin and the south west corner of Meath onto it to.

    how close the airport is to the city, or its in the city, is a pain in the ass. How many acres is that stopping from being developed for housing?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    how close the airport is to the city, or its in the city, is a pain in the ass. How many acres is that stopping from being developed for housing?

    This would be a valid point if there were land shortages in the city. Or the suburbs. Neither of which is the case

    Building the airport further out requires extra transporting too. The airport in its current location is quite convenient for both the city and the motorway network.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    SeanW wrote: »
    Fifth and finally, your concern about P&R users "eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on" can be addressed by making sure that the capacity of thing is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future.

    That is easier said then done! A tram simply has a maximum capacity. It is more then a bus line, but less then a Metro.

    You can’t just wave a magic wand and add capacity beyond its physical limitations. The two Luas lines are already some of the highest capacity tram lines in the world. Most European cities would have long ago converted such overcrowded lines to Metro.

    The point is, if you are planning new Luas lines, you certainly have to be realistic and plan for the maximum capacity of the system. No point in spending tens of millions extra in inducing demand that the new system can’t then handle. Better to spend that money on systems that can handle that demand. Metrolink, Dart Expansion, Dart Underground, etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Your rant about buses need to be reassessed in terms of BusConnects which will bring in big changes. If BusConnects are Luas Finglas we're in place, there would be less cars and buses on the road which would really improve bus journey times from Ashbourne.
    BusConnects will help, but remember that Dublin was first laid out in the 10th century and even in newer cities that are well laid out (like New York with its grid patterns) there is only so much that you can get out of surface transport. Dublin is at or near the limits of that. In addition to have Trinity College, a solid mile+ squared of no streets, right in the city centre and in everyone's way as they try to get from North to South or from places like Merrion Square towards the West. Bad as this was, it was fine before the Luas Cross City, now it's a shambles. The gov. tried to get more out of the city streets and it backfired.
    Taking the road bridge over the M50 for Luas is going to be met with significant opposition, much like closing Dunville Ave. Getting to the other side of the M50 would certainly be the source of significant cost and/or delay.
    There is plenty of road space on St. Margarets' Road up to the R122 junction that could easily accommodate tram lanes. Once you turn at the R104/R122 roundabout, you cross the M50 and are into open countryside. It would be simple enough to add tram tracks and powerline to the two lane bridge and share the road between the trams and the insignificant levels of traffic on it. If need be, the bridge could be widened to have traffic lanes and tram lanes, the latter of which buses would be allowed to use as well, presumably.

    There's no reason, except being penny-wise and pound-foolish, to have a P&R in Charlestown and not just beyond the M50. Zero. And you're not going to get much more transport service in Dublin via surface streets, BusConnects or no BusConnects. Ask anyone who has the misfortune of commuting into the central area by any mode. The city is FAR beyond that.
    We really need to stop looking at Luas as the solution to all our problems. Luas is great but it has limitations and shouldn't be serving areas 10km away. Talk about making sure that the capacity is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future means recognising this reality.
    On what basis have you reached the conclusion that a line with a proper P&R at the end could not possibly serve all its users?
    If Luas Finglas opened in the morning, it would attract significant numbers of users. It is probably a decade from opening and the population is growing. Lots of apartments at Charlestown SC and Dublin Industrial Estate should be the next Cherrywood (ironically the current Green Line which was to serve Cherrywood is approaching breaking point before any apartments are finished there).
    Yes, the Green Line Luas needs to be upgraded to Metro. Not exactly news to anyone here ...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I don't mind the extension to Finglas because it's a relatively close suburb. Serving Bray with on street trams is mental though.

    We need more central tram capacity. A new line from Ringsend to st James is essential, a new line from UCD to Fairview crossing the east of the city centre and another cross city line from brownstone to Harold's X. This would add lots of capacity, endless suburban extensions just put central sections under pressure. We only have 2 lines in the centre one north-south and the other east-west. We need to be doubling the central capacity before the suburban lines go ahead


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I can see the arguments for the Bray extension. But with the Green line already jammers and the building of 25,000 units at Cherrywood it would be like throwing petrol on a fire.

    Agree that new central lines should take priority though. That said the Finglas extension at only 4km and which opens up the Dublin Industrial Estate to lots of new housing would be an easy win. Just gotta go a bit further for a proper Park and Ride north of the m50 but Im sure they'll figure that out.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I can see the arguments for the Bray extension. But with the Green line already jammers and the building of 25,000 units at Cherrywood it would be like throwing petrol on a fire.

    Agree that new central lines should take priority though. That said the Finglas extension at only 4km and which opens up the Dublin Industrial Estate to lots of new housing would be an easy win. Just gotta go a bit further for a proper Park and Ride north of the m50 but Im sure they'll figure that out.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they'll extend beyond the M50, just don't know how yet.

    As to the Bray extension, it makes sense, but only if the Metrolink Green Line upgrade is in place. As that's been delayed, so to has the Bray extension. I'm pretty sure that's why the Finglas extension has gone from being very far down in the plans, to being the first priority now that the Metrolink resources are being freed up.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Looks like it could be an online consultation for the EPR with online events with the NTA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Some good news this is taken from a job description for a TII design engineer The role is particularly for key capital projects such as Luas Finglas and Luas Cork). Hopefully this may be a sign it may progress quicker


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The minutes of the NTA Board Meeting in May indicate that a non-statutory consultation on the emerging preferred route for the LUAS extension to Finglas will be held shortly (date not specified).


  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Ok a prediction, i predict Luas Finglas will start construction in Summer 2025. And will open to public at 2pm Saturday December 9th 2028.

    These threads run for years so lets see out it matches up. :P


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Looks like it could be an online consultation for the EPR with online events with the NTA.

    Starts on 28th July


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭noelfirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    That's a fairly sharp turn and climb over the Maynooth line ...and only 4 stops, thought it would be more than that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I think the Park and Ride being at Charlestown S.C. is a mistake due to traffic issues onto and off of the N2.

    The P&R should be outside of the M50 on a dedicated M2 junction. Maybe about 1km extra of track and a bridge over the M50.

    I’ll be making a submission to this effect once the consultation starts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah would agree, park and rides need to be quick to get in and get out of. As it stands there are large traffic back ups to get from Charlestown SC out onto the N2 to head north during rush hour. It would be typical for it to take 10 minutes just to get onto the N2 around 5pm. Its already a busy enough area without bringing several hundred more cars into it for a park and ride. Theres lots of land beside the N2 outside the m50 which would allow cars to get in and out quickly if the Luas just went a further 500m north and terminated there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I think the Park and Ride being at Charlestown S.C. is a mistake due to traffic issues onto and off of the N2.

    The P&R should be outside of the M50 on a dedicated M2 junction. Maybe about 1km extra of track and a bridge over the M50.

    I’ll be making a submission to this effect once the consultation starts.

    I used to work of Melville Road, and the traffic is horrendous as it is, at the junction of Charlestown place and the N2. I'll make a submission to the same effect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah will likely make a submission myself to that effect even though Im not in the area all that often anymore. But when I was getting out onto the N2 at rush hour could take a car three or four traffic light sequences and 10 maybe 12 minutes. Adding a park and ride into that mix would be chaos and Im surprised they are even considering it.

    The Luas could go up to the top of the St.Margrets Road and go left at the roundabout after Bord Gais and over the m50 on that bridge (which would have to be widened and presumably strengthened). Then when it gets beyond the Baleskin refuge center about 300 metres after the bridge there are fields there which also border the N2 and would be a good location for a park and ride.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    This could be the same P&R as the BusConnects one. I doubt they'd build two.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    Ok a prediction, i predict Luas Finglas will start construction in Summer 2025. And will open to public at 2pm Saturday December 9th 2028.

    These threads run for years so lets see out it matches up. :P

    I predict that the country won’t have a pot to piss in around 2025 and Luas Finglas will be long forgotten.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I predict that the country won’t have a pot to piss in around 2025 and Luas Finglas will be long forgotten.


    I think if the country is in recession its actually more likely to go ahead because it is such a small project, just 4kms of track and perhaps around 300m of investment. Were the Metrolink to get postponed due to a recession that then makes the Finglas Luas an easy win for government, it allows them to point at something they are doing and the costs are relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Hete we go again , basically just come up wity the cheapest option. Build nothing if cost is all they are concerned about and not value...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Hete we go again , basically just come up wity the cheapest option. Build nothing if cost is all they are concerned about and not value...


    Well for that price you're introducing luas into a new neighbourhood, plus it would further justify the money already spent on the extension to Broombridge because I would hazard a guess that this existing branch probably has the lowest patronage of all the luas arms spanning out of the city centre. For such a low price, it's great value for money and I would hope it acts as a template for more extensions to other parts of the city. Of course, for some people, nothing less than a fully fledged metro is good enough for Dublin regardless of where you want to send it.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Looks pretty sensible to me, in fairness. I had been worried that they'd just send it up the Finglas road there, but thankfully they've chosen to run it through the more residential areas there.

    Unsurprised that they stopped it before going over the M50, but I'll be making a submission there too, suggesting that they make the R122 bridge a public transport priority bridge, allowing the locals to still have access, but also allowing the Luas to run across it unimpeded. Not requiring a new bridge should keep the costs down, and would utilise that bridge a bit better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there room at charlestown for a significant P&R?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Is there room at charlestown for a significant P&R?

    How do you get there? It is jammers with local traffic.

    But there is just North of the M50. Cross the M50 on the R122 bridge and turn left. Access the P&R from the N2.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I can't see another junction being added immediately north of the M50, a P&R would have to go at the next existing junction. That would be a fair bit of extra track and would have a significant enough cost. I'm not sure it actually offers that good value when you consider that numbers will be paltry outside of a few hours a day, 5 days a week. The vast majority of the traffic is originating from Ashbourne or Ratoath, better to provide solutions directly from those towns.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I can't see another junction being added immediately north of the M50, a P&R would have to go at the next existing junction. That would be a fair bit of extra track and would have a significant enough cost. I'm not sure it actually offers that good value when you consider that numbers will be paltry outside of a few hours a day, 5 days a week. The vast majority of the traffic is originating from Ashbourne or Ratoath, better to provide solutions directly from those towns.

    The R122 is less than 1 km east of the N2 junction, with a nice green field between the two. Perfect for a P&R. It would serve traffic from the M50, M1, and N2. Direct connection to the CC and Sandyford.


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