Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

joeysoap · 14-06-2019 3:50pm

EICVD wrote: »

Other half flew to YYZ on Wednesday, told me before they departed half the plane would be without IFE, figured it was EWR & low & behold it was. Looks like both airlines in the YYZ use their unreliable 330s on the route.

Lax isn’t great either. Went tech in Seattle last week and I heard was the cause of the delay from Lax (airport) recently.

Jack1985 wrote: »

Crew are required to take breaks after the meal service, legally. EASA also makes it clear if local agreements supersede EASA minimum requirements, they supersede the minimum which is the case at EI, so expect to see a lot of canned last services as crew will ensure they get their agreed break entitlements.

Quite right too. It’ll probably fall on the shoulders of the senior to see breaks are taken in an orderly fashion.

California Dreamer · 14-06-2019 9:07pm

Anybody know what the disembarkation is like in Toulouse? Airbridge/Stairs/Bus to terminal?

silverharp · 14-06-2019 11:18pm

a few people back from Faro to dublin with aer lingus saying they were using their transatlantic planes with a 2 4 2 seat arrangement? i thought they would be using A320 /1 ?

goingnowhere · 15-06-2019 12:04am

A330 does Malaga and Faro at peak season

SweetCaliber · 15-06-2019 1:51am

silverharp wrote: »

a few people back from Faro to dublin with aer lingus saying they were using their transatlantic planes with a 2 4 2 seat arrangement? i thought they would be using A320 /1 ?

I was on the 321 the other day back from Faro, nice plane, EI-CPH.

Funnily enough it was hit with the air stairs and we had to wait for an engineer to give the okay.

I've seen the 330 there a couple of times though. Seems to do it every now and again at peak times.

EIMH · 15-06-2019 8:24am

silverharp wrote: »

a few people back from Faro to dublin with aer lingus saying they were using their transatlantic planes with a 2 4 2 seat arrangement? i thought they would be using A320 /1 ?

They use A333 for early flight on Saturdays during peak summer season to Faro

silverharp · 15-06-2019 9:16am

cheers! we are going out tomorrow but it looks like we have it for the way back. people were just saying it was more comfortable than "ryanair"

adam88 · 15-06-2019 11:57am

Three weeks ago in Toulouse it was air stairs. Easy enough airport to navigate

Cloudio9 · 15-06-2019 12:15pm

silverharp wrote: »

cheers! we are going out tomorrow but it looks like we have it for the way back. people were just saying it was more comfortable than "ryanair"

You can pay to sit in the business class cabin and it’ll definitely be more comfortable than Ryanair. Think it’s about €90 for the seat.

Jamie2k9 · 15-06-2019 1:00pm

I'm sure it's still work in progress but short haul is looking terrible for winter. Not sure how much more they can slim it down.

Locker10a · 15-06-2019 3:26pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm sure it's still work in progress but short haul is looking terrible for winter. Not sure how much more they can slim it down.

How do you mean ?

kevinandrew · 15-06-2019 4:27pm

Second A321LR, EI-LRB, has been spotted in Hamburg apparently in full colours. No photos yet.

https://digitalairliners.com/category/xfw-spotter-log/

Not familiar with the layout at the Airbus Hamburg plant but I believe the riverside store is a temporary storage area after the paint shop.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm sure it's still work in progress but short haul is looking terrible for winter. Not sure how much more they can slim it down.

Route cuts, frequency reductions? I've said it for a long time that short haul was stagnant and at risk of shrinking without major changes. Just look at this summer, growth has been modest at best with nothing new added to the network and the airline is finding its marketshare being pinched at the higher end by Lufthansa, Swiss etc and at the lower end by Ryanair.

Aer Lingus must be one of the only airlines in Europe that can say their short haul route network is physically smaller now than it was five years ago. Yes they've increased frequency to "popular" holiday and business destinations but the list of route cuts is long; CPG, HEL, WAW, KRK, ARN, OPT, SVQ, IBZ, AGA, STR, HAJ, etc. Some of those failures should be ringing alarm bells at Shamrock House. The cost base is obviously still too high, the aircraft are too big for new markets and the single fleet type isn't flexible enough to compete.

A new fleet means securing investment from IAG, which requires a business plan, which requires a profitable business to start from in the first place. I think that's why Aer Lingus has been so tight on short haul, they're trying to shrink it into profitability but finding themselves squeezed more and more every year which only ever ends one way. Short haul may well be profitable overall but if you're not growing in a good economy and when fuel is still low, you may as well be loss making.

Van.Bosch · 15-06-2019 4:51pm

When you see the SH growth at Dublin it’s all the more alarming that EI haven’t taken their share. They have done so well on LH as a hub, and show plenty of ambition on expanding the LH side, but they need feed to make those profitable so I’m surprised at the lack of SH ambition. The Stobart deal 5/6? Years ago was a good start but I would have expected them to have taken it up a notch with possibly a E170/190 order to start new thinner routes.

I doubt it but I wonder did they really believe the Ryanair agreement would cover their SH needs?

tanya1987 · 15-06-2019 5:24pm

That is absolutely true and worrying.
I thought with the Aer Space introduction, a little bit of change/enhancement was coming for the Short Haul operations, specially to face competition against Lufthansa, Air France, TAP, KLM, Iberia etc but looking at the new winter schedule it looks really bad. Rome for example down to one daily, I can’t remember that happening before. Even Munich is loosing the late flight during some days of the week

joeysoap · 16-06-2019 12:59am

Will this mean a lot of staff let go during the winter?

Will it possibly mean a loss of trained staff to other airlines?

joeysoap · 16-06-2019 1:03am

silverharp wrote: »

cheers! we are going out tomorrow but it looks like we have it for the way back. people were just saying it was more comfortable than "ryanair"

Every seat on AL is more comfortable than Ry. Though I wish they would restrict the incline a bit. Maybe on the new 321’s?

Shamrockj · 16-06-2019 2:00am

tanya1987 wrote: »

That is absolutely true and worrying.
I thought with the Aer Space introduction, a little bit of change/enhancement was coming for the Short Haul operations, specially to face competition against Lufthansa, Air France, TAP, KLM, Iberia etc but looking at the new winter schedule it looks really bad. Rome for example down to one daily, I can’t remember that happening before. Even Munich is loosing the late flight during some days of the week

The late Munich is still there 5 out of 7 days a week
Rome is not down to once a day the late Rome is still there 3 out of 7 days a week
The winter schedule is ALWAYS going to be reduced it's the nature of a seasonal business.

1123heavy · 16-06-2019 2:03am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm sure it's still work in progress but short haul is looking terrible for winter. Not sure how much more they can slim it down.

If you're talking about the reduced frequencies, i am sure they are not without reason. No one is more aware of what brings the passengers and what doesn't than aer lingus themselves.

I'll never forget 2 years ago, around Feb 20th i flew MAD-DUB. There were literally about 15-20 of us on the aircraft for the evening flight home. On an A320 it looked like there was no one on it at all, never seen anything like it before and i don't think any of us could quite believe it.

So considering these things it is understandable that they'd cut frequencies or routes altogether, if they were running flights aimlessly and continually at empty there'd be even more complaints and it'd be like Alitalia, except aer lingus are no longer government owned.

tanya1987 · 16-06-2019 2:17am

1123heavy wrote: »

If you're talking about the reduced frequencies, i am sure they are not without reason. No one is more aware of what brings the passengers and what doesn't than aer lingus themselves.

I'll never forget 2 years ago, around Feb 20th i flew MAD-DUB. There were literally about 15-20 of us on the aircraft for the evening flight home. On an A320 it looked like there was no one on it at all, never seen anything like it before and i don't think any of us could quite believe it.

So considering these things it is understandable that they'd cut frequencies or routes altogether, if they were running flights aimlessly and continually at empty there'd be even more complaints and it'd be like Alitalia, except aer lingus are no longer government owned.

You are missing his point here. It’s not about a decline in passenger numbers. It’s the fact that airlines like Lufthansa are increasing the frequency on the same routes and even adding widebodies (a340) on one of 5 daily, meanwhile aer lingus is loosing market. Or the same could be said on the AMS flight, with only 2/3 daily on sat meanwhile KLM increased their DUB route etc etc

sherology · 16-06-2019 8:48am

tanya1987 wrote: »

You are missing his point here. It’s not about a decline in passenger numbers. It’s the fact that airlines like Lufthansa are increasing the frequency on the same routes and even adding widebodies (a340) on one of 5 daily, meanwhile aer lingus is loosing market. Or the same could be said on the AMS flight, with only 2/3 daily on sat meanwhile KLM increased their DUB route etc etc

But a lot of LH traffic is connection - and that is increasing as the economy is boomong, same for KLM etc. Iberia and TAP take you to South America and are known airlines to South Americans, or are taking you to smaller cities in their network. EI steals their passengers on transatlantic... So it is what it is... They're gonna fight back.

EI needs to either codeshare better with the EU majors (taking back the routes on their behalf), or downsize to a220s for their SH fleet beyond a321lrs/xlrs and maybe some a321s for trunk all-year routes.

The a220s are transatlantic capable (from Ireland anyways) so could provide some backup when things go wrong (just to recover the schedule and not cancel).

Interlining with FR is a good idea as they have the cost base to keep routes rolling through low season.

You can't fly planes empty or cheap-leisure .

Also, the inability to book a non-direct EI flight to anywhere but the US via the EI website is nuts. Great website but only diect EI flights to EU can be booked. In 2019 it's a very visible flaw in EI business. You MUST use the other airlines.

basill · 16-06-2019 10:12am

I hate to burst the doom and gloom bubble but EI made nearly 400m last year with the same seasonality that it has encountered for the last 80 years. Cutting frequencies on low yielding flights whilst adding high yielding J, Y and possibly cargo to the A321LR will more than make up for it.

goingnowhere · 16-06-2019 10:46am

There is a lot of air being carried around off season, there are crew shortages, hours issues etc so it makes sense to cut back.

While I love the fact there were 14 flights a week to DUS, when there are 50-70 onboard on the morning Sunday 692 you cannot sustain it.

I think we are going back to the old way, nothing on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings

Locker10a · 16-06-2019 12:52pm

I think gradual and sustainable short haul expansion will happen, the 321LRs will be deployed in select euro routes, that leaves room for expansion, it’s also likely there’ll be more regional jets flying the shamrock, Cityjet currently do LCY and also some BHX, if this continues into other routes you’ll see increased frequency, and maybe the ATRs deployed elsewhere and maybe even a320s freed up for other routes.

Jamie2k9 · 16-06-2019 12:57pm

Locker10a wrote: »

How do you mean ?

Appears a website issue, things not as bad as previously looked.

dfx- · 16-06-2019 6:17pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I think gradual and sustainable short haul expansion will happen, the 321LRs will be deployed in select euro routes, that leaves room for expansion, it’s also likely there’ll be more regional jets flying the shamrock, Cityjet currently do LCY and also some BHX, if this continues into other routes you’ll see increased frequency, and maybe the ATRs deployed elsewhere and maybe even a320s freed up for other routes.

Every A320 and B737 to/from BHX is near full morning afternoon and night - 8 flights a day or so, I don't know why they are operating Cityjets or indeed Stobarts on it.

What was a winter arrival to Dublin at 2100 is now 2245 and usually after 11pm or midnight with Cityjet. Stobart was two hours late last night. I avoid that flight now...

john boye · 16-06-2019 7:15pm

dfx- wrote: »

Every A320 and B737 to/from BHX is near full morning afternoon and night - 8 flights a day or so, I don't know why they are operating Cityjets or indeed Stobarts on it.

They can probably make more money sending the 320 on a longer mission and leaving the UK regionals to WX/STK.

Tenger · 16-06-2019 11:28pm

Kcormahs wrote: »

I remember Aer Lingus on the a319 it only had 3 cc.
The 757 works with 4. The company will try to push for 4 as they would be in a good cost advantage against other airlines like TAP who have 5 cc on board their 321LR

But keep in mind that EI are not directly competing with TAP. Their main ‘competitors’ for loads are UA, BA, VS, AA and DL. (Obviously if/when the JV happens BA and AA will become partners)
Also that TAP 5 may be equal to the actual cost of the EI 4, depends on salary, conditions etc.

tanya1987 · 17-06-2019 12:32am

Tenger wrote: »

But keep in mind that EI are not directly competing with TAP. Their main ‘competitors’ for loads are UA, BA, VS, AA and DL. (Obviously if/when the JV happens BA and AA will become partners)
Also that TAP 5 may be equal to the actual cost of the EI 4, depends on salary, conditions etc.

Yeah but loads wise Aer Lingus has more seats in the NEO than TAP. And 16 business class seats, with only one crew looking after on his/her own? Plus looking after pilots? Etc. if with 12 they struggle, 16 even worse. And before saying ‘ its only more 4 seats’, remember its a business class service, not an economy where everything is plated up and ready to go

alancostello · 17-06-2019 3:22am

tanya1987 wrote: »

Yeah but loads wise Aer Lingus has more seats in the NEO than TAP. And 16 business class seats, with only one crew looking after on his/her own? Plus looking after pilots? Etc. if with 12 they struggle, 16 even worse. And before saying ‘ its only more 4 seats’, remember its a business class service, not an economy where everything is plated up and ready to go

Is it unreasonable to think that one of the 3 economy cabin crew could help during meal service in J? Y food service is not going to begin immediately, whereas with J the meal being served as soon as possible after takeoff is generally seen as a good thing. Once the mains for J are plated up they could return to Y where the first drink service will probably be in progress and one crew member could easily handle plating dessert for 16 and remaining drinks/service items.

rivegauche · 17-06-2019 9:44am

This would be nice to have.

A321XLR-infografic.jpg?wid=991&fit=fit,1&qlt=85,0

Shamrockj · 17-06-2019 12:12pm

alancostello wrote: »

Is it unreasonable to think that one of the 3 economy cabin crew could help during meal service in J? Y food service is not going to begin immediately, whereas with J the meal being served as soon as possible after takeoff is generally seen as a good thing. Once the mains for J are plated up they could return to Y where the first drink service will probably be in progress and one crew member could easily handle plating dessert for 16 and remaining drinks/service items.

It doesn't work like that though. In J they go out with a bar first followed by starters which are then collected and then the main meal is plated etc. If you take one from Y you only have 2 for 164 in economy which doesn't work either. There will have to be some change somewhere

liiga · 17-06-2019 1:55pm

Dose anyone think aerlingus will order any A330neo at Paris airshow ?

Van.Bosch · 17-06-2019 2:17pm

liiga wrote: »

Dose anyone think aerlingus will order any A330neo at Paris airshow ?

Doubt it, EI seem to order the A333 piecemeal in agreement with IAG. Can’t see a big order coming, although as discussed earlier would love to see them order a new SH type to allow growth but that’s probably less likely.

17-06-2019 2:38pm

I'm flying with AerLingus from Shannon to Boston on an ASL flight
Does anyone know what the audio connection is like?

I know when I flew to LA last year, the plane had a 2 pin connector, but that wasn't one of the ASL planes.
Someone told me that he thinks the ASL planes have the 3.5mm single jack. I have my own headphones I want to use, but I dont want to buy a 2 pin connector unless necessary

Thanks

L1011 · 17-06-2019 2:41pm

Only likely to be a year or two more where you can order 333s I'd think - backlog isn't huge and its the 332 that the Freighter and Military variants are built on

cson · 17-06-2019 3:32pm

rivegauche wrote: »

This would be nice to have.

I wonder what the opportunity cost of the cargo space lost to the extra tanks is?

cson · 17-06-2019 3:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm flying with AerLingus from Shannon to Boston on an ASL flight
Does anyone know what the audio connection is like?

I know when I flew to LA last year, the plane had a 2 pin connector, but that wasn't one of the ASL planes.
Someone told me that he thinks the ASL planes have the 3.5mm single jack. I have my own headphones I want to use, but I dont want to buy a 2 pin connector unless necessary

Thanks

Single jack that goes directly into the PTV.

17-06-2019 3:59pm

cson wrote: »

Single jack that goes directly into the PTV.

Great, thank you

Tenger · 17-06-2019 4:03pm

liiga wrote: »

Dose anyone think aerlingus will order any A330neo at Paris airshow ?

No.

EI already have 2 A333 due for delivery within the next 8 months. (I think these will be among that last handful of ceo's built)
I suspect that we may see an additional order for XLRs before we see A330neo's.
They have 8 A321LRs on order, with delivery of 8 planned within next 12 months.
I suspect another half dozen or so XLRs would provide a nice (for the accontants) 'filler' to serve other airports at the 8-9 hour flight time.

However I dont doubt that the A330neo will join the fleet as a replacement for the older A330s in about 3-4 years.

sherology · 17-06-2019 4:31pm

cson wrote: »

I wonder what the opportunity cost of the cargo space lost to the extra tanks is?

The XLR has a new built-in rear center tank RCT (that weights the same as 1 ACT) and takes up less space than the ACTs in the LR... So it actually has more belly space than an LR. The LR in comparison is a band-aid version of the XLR... And sales will likely stop now that the XLR exists. Benefits of the LR is that you can take out the removable ACTs and you have an a321neo.

The new Integrated RCT of the XLR holds a little more fuel than the 3 ACTs of the LR... can't be removed, and the XLR also needs an ACT in the front hold to go the whole 4700nm.

So... The XLR is kind of an LR+ (or a 'solid/hard' LR) but with the fuel tank deigned and integrated into the frame. Looks like it'll fly 4200nm without the ACT, and 4700 with it... If needed. 4-tonne increase in MTOW to hold the extra fuel.

F

kevinandrew · 17-06-2019 5:27pm

The Aer Lingus business plan has their long haul fleet requirements covered to 2023, this includes the recent proposal by Aer Lingus management to IAG for additional A321LR (XLR) aircraft bringing that fleet up to 14 frames. We could possibly hear more about that this week.

As for future wide body aircraft, most of the A332 fleet will be in need of replacement as they’ll be 15-20 years old by the mid 2020s while the A333s will be on average much younger with the majority being newer models ranging from just 2-6 years old. A wide body replacement could then realistically be expected around 2023 onwards, looking that far ahead could mean all options are back on the table, the A330neo remaining most likely.

Aer Lingus + IAG could of course want to move things a long much quicker so orders from lessors could come much sooner.

Cloudio9 · 18-06-2019 10:09am

kevinandrew wrote: »

A332 fleet will be in need of replacement as they’ll be 15-20 years old

Do these things not last closer to 25 years old given they do 2 flights a day for most of their lives ?

Locker10a · 18-06-2019 10:11am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Do these things not last closer to 25 years old given they do 2 flights a day for most of their lives ?

Yeah they should do! Look at the BA 747 and 777, they plough long haul routes for a full generation before being replaced

basill · 18-06-2019 11:14am

If the XLR range figures are based on the same assumptions as those for the LR then I would take them with a grain of salt. Purely marketing hype and bear no resemblance to actual ground/flight conditions likely to be experienced throughout the course of a year. Its real best case scenario stuff.

goingnowhere · 18-06-2019 11:28am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Do these things not last closer to 25 years old given they do 2 flights a day for most of their lives ?

The EI fleet is one of the most intensely used A330 fleets, EI wedge in a trip to Malaga and Faro during Summer season. JFK/BOS-DUB-Malaga/Faro-DUB-JFK/BOS.

The early A330 fleet suffered thanks to the Shannon stop over adding cycles, they are all gone now and EI-LAX is from 1999 is still plodding along

Tenger · 18-06-2019 11:34am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Do these things not last closer to 25 years old given they do 2 flights a day for most of their lives ?

Yes they generally only operate "2 flights a day for most of their lives"..... but EI aim to have a fleet utilisation of 20 hours per 24 hour period.

Cloudio9 · 18-06-2019 1:19pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

T EI wedge in a trip to Malaga and Faro during Summer season

Not on the 200's though

Shamrockj · 18-06-2019 1:30pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The EI fleet is one of the most intensely used A330 fleets, EI wedge in a trip to Malaga and Faro during Summer season

JFK/BOS-DUB-Malaga/Faro-DUB-JFK/BOS.

The early A330 fleet suffered thank to the Shannon stop over adding cycles, they are all gone now and EI-LAX is from 1999 is still plodding along

Only one A330-300 goes to Malaga a day and one to Faro on a Saturday. The rest are on the ground during that time

Tenger · 18-06-2019 1:47pm

,p

Shamrockj wrote: »

Only one A330-300 goes to Malaga a day and one to Faro on a Saturday. The rest are on the ground during that time

For about 3-4 hours each. EI previously stated proudly about their intense utilization of their wide bodies. The distance between Ireland and the US permits return journeys to most location within a 24 hour period, unlike many other route networks.

The 0500 arrivals generally leave again Pre 1200. (Apart from the aforementioned AGP and FAO) The post 0900 arrivals go back out around 12-1pm. The post 1100 arrivals go out as the 4pm wave.
I’m guessing they have 1 A330 per day going into the hanger for weekly checks?
(about 2 years ago I used flight radar to follow the EI A330s over the course of a week or so and this was the pattern I found)

It’s not like LAX or SFO were you see Asia/Pacific aircraft sitting on a remote stand for 6-10 hours per day. This is also a function of time zones.

LoonyLovegood · 18-06-2019 2:30pm

So we'll be seeing the XLR, then.

https://twitter.com/AirbusPRESS/status/1140974050350653440

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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