Waterford Airport

RadioRetro · 14-06-2019 9:32am

Questions raised over funding for Waterford's runway extension:

Independent.ie: Shane Ross’s €5m grant for airport with no flights.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/rosss-5m-grant-for-airport-with-no-flights-38218208.html

Harry Palmr · 14-06-2019 9:47am

Boo hoo! It's got no flights cos it's got no runway!

5 million when private industry is coughing up 7 should be no brainer in an age of 2 billion quid hospitals.

JCX BXC · 14-06-2019 10:07am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Boo hoo! It's got no flights cos it's got no runway!

5 million when private industry is coughing up 7 should be no brainer in an age of 2 billion quid hospitals.

It has a runway, yet can't attract the same flights on small aircraft that every airport in Ireland has.

One waste of money doesn't justify another waste of money.

gozunda · 14-06-2019 10:11am

JCX BXC wrote: »

It has a runway, yet can't attract the same flights on small aircraft that every airport in Ireland has.

One waste of money doesn't justify another waste of money.

Talked to an engineer down that way who said the siting of the runway is completely unsuitable due to topography and prevailing wind direction. If that is the case seems crazy that money is being thrown at what is in effect is a non operational airstrip at present

BowWow · 14-06-2019 10:13am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

5 million when private industry is coughing up 7.

I read article differently - 5M from Government, 2M from Councils and Private Industry being asked for 5M.

So 7M from the Public, nothing else guaranteed....

Harry Palmr · 14-06-2019 10:57am

Today's hatchet job by the indo was clearly aimed at the independent group. I'd disregard the whole thing.

Here is "de papure" who being based in Cork are no friend of Waterford as a rule (and yes they crowbar in local concerns)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/meagre-offer-to-waterford-airport-actions-show-priorities-of-government-930638.html

Neworder79 · 14-06-2019 12:13pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

It has a runway, yet can't attract the same flights on small aircraft that every airport in Ireland has.

NO airport in Ireland with a "small runway" has maintained commercial scheduled routes: Galway closed, Sligo only SAR, Donegal 1 PSO route.

Kerry would be totally dependant on 1 PSO if it didn't have jet capable runway (2000m) to server Ryanair 6 routes.

Ireland West (2400m) has grown to 20+ routes based on jet operators like Ryanair, AerLingus and sun charter companies. FlyBe operate some smaller turboprops on 3 routes but no guarantee they would have served there if it didn't have the critical mass generated by the bigger airlines.

There are very few European airlines operating smaller turboprop or commuter jet sized aircraft. Those who do are focused on high-yield hub feeder routes.

If you can't accommodate the B738/A320 the major LoCo airlines are using you can't compete with hundreds of airports across Europe bidding for their traffic.

Fox Uniform · 14-06-2019 12:35pm

gozunda wrote: »

Talked to an engineer down that way who said the siting of the runway is completely unsuitable due to topography and prevailing wind direction. If that is the case seems crazy that money is being thrown at what is in effect is a non operational airstrip at present

Your engineer friend does now what he is talking about, its amazing all these engineers who have nothing to do with Waterford yet think they have all the technical info.

You do know that its just extending the current runway, the design plans were completed 12 months and good to go. The runway is aligned with the prevailing wind which is generally 210.

Maybe take a look at what actually goes in Waterford - it's far from a non operational airfield.

https://m.facebook.com/wataviation

gozunda · 14-06-2019 12:36pm

Fox Uniform wrote: »

Your engineer friend does now what he is talking about, its amazing all these engineers who have nothing to do with Waterford yet think they have all the technical info.

You do know that its just extending the current runway, the design plans were completed 12 months and good to go. The runway is aligned with the prevailing wind which is generally 210.

Maybe take a look at what actually goes in Waterford - it's far from a non operational airfield.

https://m.facebook.com/wataviation

Except the engineer does. From the article above the Airport "hasn’t had a single commercial flight in three years"

That's fairly non operational imo

marno21 · 14-06-2019 12:52pm

gozunda wrote: »

Except the engineer does. From the article above the Airport "hasn’t had a single commercial flight in three years"

That's fairly non operational imo

The airport hasn't been closed down. It's still had the SAR base, general aviation, and business/private jets.

Dawn Meats Group use the airport several times per week with their own based aircraft.

The airport hasn't been idling.

gozunda · 14-06-2019 1:29pm

marno21 wrote: »

The airport hasn't been closed down. It's still had the SAR base, general aviation, and business/private jets.

Dawn Meats Group use the airport several times per week with their own based aircraft.

The airport hasn't been idling.

Point taken and granted - that referred to commercial non operation as per the article.

L1011 · 14-06-2019 2:39pm

Neworder79 wrote: »

Donegal 1 PSO route.

Donegal has maintained a commercial service to Glasgow for nearly 30 years

faoiarvok · 14-06-2019 3:01pm

gozunda wrote: »

Point taken and granted - that referred to commercial non operation as per the article.

Most of those mentioned above are commercial operations – someone is being paid to run them.

I’m fairly skeptical of Waterford’s ability to sustain scheduled passenger flights even with the runway investment, but to refer to the airport as non-operational and then shift the goalposts to try double down on that argument is nonsensical.

notharrypotter · 14-06-2019 3:05pm

marno21 wrote: »

The airport hasn't been closed down. It's still had the SAR base, general aviation, and business/private jets.

Dawn Meats Group use the airport several times per week with their own based aircraft.

The airport hasn't been idling.

Yet it is totally reliant on state subvention to cover it's costs.

No proposed runway extension will change this.

Regarding the "maintenance hanger" business.
How is that working for Knock?

Pie in the sky requiring even more subsidies.

Harry Palmr · 14-06-2019 3:12pm

Why not call it an investment rather than pie in the sky - and that's assuming your contention is right which it may not be.

Is there any reason a Waterford hub facility for Dublin Aerospace (the company) couldn't wash it's face?

Oasis1974 · 14-06-2019 3:26pm

Good news for Waterford INTERNATIONAL Airport!!!! New Airline coming when runway extension is ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjZlaacPd8

Neworder79 · 14-06-2019 3:34pm

I the context of a national policy advocating growing our 4 key regional cities €5m for longterm aviation infrastructure is a pittance, especially given 60% is being invested by local business and councils willing to drive development of the airport. Similar amounts are announced for greenways, local works schemes every week without any scrutiny.

Dunmoreroader · 14-06-2019 5:02pm

Neworder79 wrote: »

I the context of a national policy advocating growing our 4 key regional cities €5m for longterm aviation infrastructure is a pittance, especially given 60% is being invested by local business and councils willing to drive development of the airport. Similar amounts are announced for greenways, local works schemes every week without any scrutiny.

But it might divert some people in the Southeast from flying from Dublin or Cork (Yikes!) or some UK tourists might fly into Waterford rather than Cork or Dublin; we can't be having that! Or business-people scouting locations for investment might, God forbid, choose Waterford over Dublin or Cork OMG!!
We need to know our place down here in our pretend city in our 2nd-class region;
"Send your children to our world class Uni's and don't be getting notions about upgrading WIT, send your heart-attack sufferers to our state-of-the-art hospitals and if you want to fly away, well we already have multi-million euro state funded airports to facilitate you, you silly little pixies, what are you looking for €5M for when we're burning €3 Billion on rural broadband and €2 Billion digging a hole in the ground so the National Children's Hospital can be as close as possible to the Consultants favoured south Dublin residential areas.
Be happy with your lot and don't be getting notions.":rolleyes:

roadmaster · 14-06-2019 7:04pm

I think i read in a article last year Dublin aerospace are looking to move some work out of dublin to another airport. With the runway extension could waterford be an option? I know hangers would have to be built but i am sure a grant for that could be found

notharrypotter · 14-06-2019 7:42pm

Mi

roadmaster wrote: »

I know hangers would have to be built but i am sure a grant for that could be found

Says it all.

Marcusm · 15-06-2019 4:21pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why not call it an investment rather than pie in the sky - and that's assuming your contention is right which it may not be.

Is there any reason a Waterford hub facility for Dublin Aerospace (the company) couldn't wash it's face?

It would have to be one hell of an investment; runway to take 73x and 32x aircraft, associated hanger and maintenance facilities plus then transfer all relevant staff. Would it compete with greenfield costs in other countries? If not then it could not work.

Harry Palmr · 15-06-2019 4:33pm

Well all I know is that Conor McCarthy of DA has a stake in the new development, and he is also non executive chairman at Stobart Group and Stobart Capital. Maybe he has something in mind.

ExoPolitic · 16-06-2019 9:47am

roadmaster wrote:

I think i read in a article last year Dublin aerospace are looking to move some work out of dublin to another airport. With the runway extension could waterford be an option? I know hangers would have to be built but i am sure a grant for that could be found

Mr McCarthy is one of the investors in this runway extension, who owns Dublin aerospace. Easy to add 1 and 1 together

RadioRetro · 16-06-2019 11:47am

Waterford seem to be a bit put out by all the criticism over the €5m grant.

b757 · 15-07-2020 11:04pm

https://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/projects/airport-runway-extension/index.htm

Planning permission sought for 2287*45m plus associated lighting/drainage/works.

Dum_Dum · 12-11-2020 5:57pm

b757 wrote: »

https://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/projects/airport-runway-extension/index.htm

Planning permission sought for 2287*45m plus associated lighting/drainage/works.

Decision was due today. Anyone know why it's been pushed back another 4 months?

mr.anonymous · 12-11-2020 6:40pm

b757 wrote: »

https://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/projects/airport-runway-extension/index.htm

Planning permission sought for 2287*45m plus associated lighting/drainage/works.

That's a lot of runway for a small airport close to Cork?

Dum_Dum · 12-11-2020 7:08pm

mr.anonymous wrote: »

That's a lot of runway for a small airport close to Cork?

We are talking about Waterford Airport here. Perhaps you must be talking about Shannon, which is closer to Cork Airport than Waterford is?

mr.anonymous · 12-11-2020 7:24pm

Dum_Dum wrote: »

We are talking about Waterford Airport here. Perhaps you must be talking about Shannon, which is closer to Cork Airport than Waterford is?

I was referring to Waterford but didn't realise SNN was closer to be honest.

What has/had Waterford going for it that would justify such airport infrastructure, hardly the training flights?

Dum_Dum · 12-11-2020 7:42pm

mr.anonymous wrote: »

I was referring to Waterford but didn't realise SNN was closer to be honest.

What has/had Waterford going for it that would justify such airport infrastructure, hardly the training flights?

Absolutely nothing. Just like every other regional airport in the country. The regions they serve get access to mass aviation whereas the south-east doesn't. If you think that's fair, then OK. But let no one complain about sky-high dole figures in the region if investment is crippled because of poor access.

EchoIndia · 12-11-2020 7:46pm

Dum_Dum wrote: »

We are talking about Waterford Airport here. Perhaps you must be talking about Shannon, which is closer to Cork Airport than Waterford is?

In flying distance terms the two are virtually identical, at about 55 nautical miles from Cork Airport.

hurleronditch · 15-11-2020 9:40am

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Absolutely nothing. Just like every other regional airport in the country. The regions they serve get access to mass aviation whereas the south-east doesn't. If you think that's fair, then OK. But let no one complain about sky-high dole figures in the region if investment is crippled because of poor access.

Waterford city centre is less than 2 hours drive from both cork and Dublin airports, one a moderate regional city hub with reasonable business routes to London and other European hubs and a decent shkelp of holiday routes. Dublin is connected directly to almost everywhere you’d want to go in the northern hemisphere bar some parts of Asia.

In European terms, Waterford is already well connected for air with access to ORK and DUB, a scattering of random flights to Luton or Leeds Bradford or wherever plus a few bucket and spade routes is probably the best case scenario for there and is that really worth the investment?

From a government perspective spending money on bypasses for dungarvan, castle martyr and a bunch of other towns on the cork Waterford road, plus getting rid of the midleton roundabout (or else just putting a full motorway in) would be fair better investment and make Waterford to Cork less than an hour drive, which would be to the full regions benefit.

Dum_Dum · 15-11-2020 11:57am

hurleronditch wrote: »

Waterford city centre is less than 2 hours drive from both cork and Dublin airports, one a moderate regional city hub with reasonable business routes to London and other European hubs and a decent shkelp of holiday routes. Dublin is connected directly to almost everywhere you’d want to go in the northern hemisphere bar some parts of Asia.

In European terms, Waterford is already well connected for air with access to ORK and DUB, a scattering of random flights to Luton or Leeds Bradford or wherever plus a few bucket and spade routes is probably the best case scenario for there and is that really worth the investment?

From a government perspective spending money on bypasses for dungarvan, castle martyr and a bunch of other towns on the cork Waterford road, plus getting rid of the midleton roundabout (or else just putting a full motorway in) would be fair better investment and make Waterford to Cork less than an hour drive, which would be to the full regions benefit.

Yes, thank you for all that. Now let go. It's all been done to death.

Anyway, the question remains - what's the reason for the delay in the planning decision?

ExoPolitic · 15-11-2020 12:47pm

hurleronditch wrote:

From a government perspective spending money on bypasses for dungarvan, castle martyr and a bunch of other towns on the cork Waterford road, plus getting rid of the midleton roundabout (or else just putting a full motorway in) would be fair better investment and make Waterford to Cork less than an hour drive, which would be to the full regions benefit.

hurleronditch wrote:

In European terms, Waterford is already well connected for air with access to ORK and DUB, a scattering of random flights to Luton or Leeds Bradford or wherever plus a few bucket and spade routes is probably the best case scenario for there and is that really worth the investment?

hurleronditch wrote:

Waterford city centre is less than 2 hours drive from both cork and Dublin airports, one a moderate regional city hub with reasonable business routes to London and other European hubs and a decent shkelp of holiday routes. Dublin is connected directly to almost everywhere youâ€™d want to go in the northern hemisphere bar some parts of Asia.

And despite all of the above, Waterford used to thrive... Until it didn't keep pace with the times and increase the length of the runway.

Gaoth Laidir · 15-11-2020 2:36pm

There's so much to be said for the hassle-free process passing through a regional airport like Waterford instead of the queues and endless walk in Dublin, and that after driving a couple of hours to get there in the first place.

ExoPolitic · 15-11-2020 7:12pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote:

There's so much to be said for the hassle-free process passing through a regional airport like Waterford instead of the queues and endless walk in Dublin, and that after driving a couple of hours to get there in the first place.

Exactly, I always try to travel through smaller airports if I can ðŸ˜Š

HTCOne · 15-11-2020 9:04pm

ExoPolitic wrote: »

Exactly, I always try to travel through smaller airports if I can ðŸ˜Š

I'd be the same if there's a direct route from my local airport (Shannon), but if there isn't from Shannon but there is from Dublin I'll make the drive rather than risk a connection and losing my bags or being delayed and missing said connection. Horses for courses.

Realistically there's only probably going to be flights to one or two of the big euro hubs and a bucket and spade route or 2, but a flight to LHR or CDG could make the difference in attracting foreign investment to the region. The airport itself might not be commercially successful but if it drives local businesses and leads to the opening of new factories / call centers etc then from the exchequer point of view it could be worth it. Best of luck to them.

Fox Uniform · 15-11-2020 10:23pm

Hopefully this will give it an additional boost

https://www.built-environment-networking.com/blog/2020/11/13/falcon-real-estate-waterford/

Waterford Airport

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