Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin @30km

Options
12467…12

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    seamus wrote: »
    I can't believe this, "it's hard to drive slowly", "people will be watching the speedometer and not the road" nonsense is still flying around.

    Argue about whether it's enforced, by all means. There have been 30km/h limits in Dublin City centre for a number of years now, I think we've put to bed any arguments about whether it's physically possible to drive that slowly, or safer to do so.

    Just because the limit is there doesn't mean it's been obeyed. It's possible to drive that slow but not very safe unless the layout of the road makes it unsafe to drive any faster. on a straight bit of downhill road it can lead to you getting fined for driving at 35kph at the same time as been overtaken by a cyclist going to work. The aim should be to get transport to their destination as quick and as safe as possible without slowing them down even further and causing congestion. Very few stick to the 30kph limit anyway so extending it isn't going to change much.


  • Options
    #93
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    it can lead to you getting fined for driving at 35kph at the same time as been overtaken by a cyclist going to work.
    is there some unwritten rule that cars should be faster than bikes?


  • Options
    #94
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    They generally are or they wouldn't sell.


  • Options
    #95
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Quick and safe for who? Motorists? Surely you recognise the councils job is to make commuting quicker and safer for public transport users, pedestrians and cyclists too?

    The cause of congestion is the volume of single occupant private car.
    I think the word safe speakes for itself. If you've knocked a pedestrian over or a cyclist off a bike then that's not safe is it. Slowing you down to a crawl won't get you anywhere quicker. .


  • Options
    #96
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    What are the positives:
    - Perception of safety
    - Lower noise levels (and they will be lower)
    - In incidences involving motor vehicles, even if the scheme only lowers the average speed rather than gets everyone below that number, accidents will typically have a lower injury rate or a lower severity of the injuries involved
    - increase PT adoption as there will be a lower perception that private transport is much faster

    Negatives:
    - Slower travel times (in rush hour not really)
    - Concern over increased accidents (seems an odd one, nothing to suggest accidents increase as a result of a lower speed limit as far as I know)
    - Poor fuel economy from city driving (this is the only negative I can see but this can be countered by using more PT or alternative transport methods. Also the way alot of people drive in the city center anyway, leads to poor fuel economy anyway, so may change nothing).

    There are alot of other things that need to be done in conjunction with this. Preferably they would have been already done but it is what it is. Bigger park and ride facilities outside the city centre. Planning permission within the city limits be restricted to taller (than two storey) buildings only unless the land cannot support such changes, to make the city more nucleated. Concerted plan with the NTA to ensure spiral PT routes that are reliable. Green wave light systems on certain routes. Red light cameras. Average speed cameras.

    But as a start, it is not a bad idea, and there are no negatives there that cannot be easily countered. Traffic really only dies down to a level that going over 30kmph improves speed in the late evening and overnight, at which time there is possibly an increased risk of pedestrian injury due to poorer lighting conditions (assumption, not proven). Instilling the idea that it will make obedience of speed limits elsewhere less, seems idiotic. Again this can be countered with increased enforcement across the board.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    They generally are or they wouldn't sell.
    i would guess that for commuting, a bike is generally faster than a car. cars still sell.

    your objection seemed to be that there was something actually wrong with cars being overtaken by bikes.


  • Options
    #98
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Safe for who though? In your book? I am a resident of Dublin, when I'm cycling down Leeson Street Lower, from March 1st I will feel safer that the cars and buses around me are travelling at 30 km/h. If I want to change lanes to take a right turn at Stephens Green, I'll feel much safer that I can get into the right turning lane without being hit by a car.

    It will be safer for cyclist and I will possibly get to work quicker.
    I've answerd that.


  • Options
    #99
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i would guess that for commuting, a bike is generally faster than a car. cars still sell.

    your objection seemed to be that there was something actually wrong with cars being overtaken by bikes.

    Nope.


  • Options
    #100
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Nope.

    Cycling is much quicker if you live anywhere within 20km of Dublin city assuming you're city bound. Many within 10km still drive, people prefer the comfort and most people are a combination of overweight and lazy. Each to their own, but don't whine about traffic and speed limits when you choose modes of transport that contribute to traffic and have to abide by limits for the safety of all road users.


  • Options
    #101
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,907 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Quick and safe for who? Motorists? Surely you recognise the councils job is to make commuting quicker and safer for public transport users, pedestrians and cyclists too?

    The cause of congestion is the volume of single occupant private car.

    If the council wanted to make commuting quicker and safer while reducing the number of single occupant private cars they could do it instantly by removing the thousands of free parking spaces for public sector employees in Dublin.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,907 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Safe for who though? In your book? I am a resident of Dublin, when I'm cycling down Leeson Street Lower, from March 1st I will feel safer that the cars and buses around me are travelling at 30 km/h. If I want to change lanes to take a right turn at Stephens Green, I'll feel much safer that I can get into the right turning lane without being hit by a car.

    It will be safer for cyclist and I will possibly get to work quicker.

    Unless it's enforced, and seeing as the current 30 zone isn't, it won't make the slightest difference.

    Look at how speed is enforced in this country on National routes. It's only done on open roads with unusually low limits, so the 80km/h brigade are fine when going past the speed trap and still fine as they travel through the 50km/h town or village at their preferred 80km/h speed.


  • Options
    #103
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Del2005 wrote: »
    If the council wanted to make commuting quicker and safer while reducing the number of single occupant private cars they could do it instantly by removing the thousands of free parking spaces for public sector employees in Dublin.

    Lots of things they could do, sadly, no one has the stomach.


  • Options
    #104
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    jive wrote: »
    Cycling is much quicker if you live anywhere within 20km of Dublin city assuming you're city bound. Many within 10km still drive, people prefer the comfort and most people are a combination of overweight and lazy. Each to their own, but don't whine about traffic and speed limits when you choose modes of transport that contribute to traffic and have to abide by limits for the safety of all road users.
    Is that from a cyclists point of view?


  • Options
    #105
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Del2005 wrote: »
    If the council wanted to make commuting quicker and safer while reducing the number of single occupant private cars they could do it instantly by removing the thousands of free parking spaces for public sector employees in Dublin.
    do the council control the parking spaces of other government departments?


  • Options
    #106
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    General points: replying to moderation is not allowed and such posts will generally be deleted in full.

    No, we're not getting bogged down by 30km/h vs 19mph or whatever and we're not getting distracted by talk of law abiding when walking about people breaking the law -- you can't be law abiding and break the law -- if you want to challenge that one in the name of bias or anything else, please knock your self out and contact a category moderator.

    Following this does not require academic essays as one poster suggested, it just requires that everyone debates the issues on topic and not debate difference words of outdated ways of measuring speed on our roads

    For the record: I warn, infract and ban people who both agree and disagree with me. But this is not up for debate in-threads, it's off topic and a distraction and a disruption, that's the reasons why such posts get deleted.

    Remember: don't reply to moderation.

    -- moderator

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Is that from a cyclists point of view?

    Deal with the post and forgot about focusing on the poster... if you can't remember that rule please read the charter! I've already given a general warning / reminder that C&T rules apply.

    -- moderator


  • Options
    #107
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Is that from a cyclists point of view?

    I drive an audi and cycle my bike, I'm like a hybrid massive príck. I cycle to work as it's quicker. I'd rather the 20 minute 10km cycle than a 1 hour 10km drive. Reduced stress levels and a svelte physique are just added bonuses.

    I wouldn't class myself as a cyclist as I don't do it for leisure. I commute by bicycle and despite my initial hatred of it would find it hard to go back to the car. Anything <30km I'd cycle, it gives ya a freshness even sticking the head out the window of a car can't match.


  • Options
    #108
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    I think driving at 30km is utterly ridiculous for all drivers in cars, buses, vans, taxis, trucks, motorbikes...I for one will not be obeying it and will gladly accept the fine and points that come with it (then have the points quashed :D). Has anyone ever driven at this speed? It feels like the world is stuck in slow motion.

    Sure Usain Bolt can run at 44.72km...we all may aswell just run everywhere to avoid speeding fines.


  • Options
    #109
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Here's my view by the way since everyone seems so interested:

    There's a few streets included in the planned 30km/h roll out in the south east of the city centre which I might have kept at 50km/h. St Stephen's Green east and south are just two examples.

    The AA or others should have made a case for some of these streets to be kept at 50, but instead they started ranting and raving about using 60km/h on Dawson Street and 70-80km/h on residential roads and streets -- many of which were not even proposed to be changed from 50km/h and will now stay at 50km/h.

    Overall I'm left wondering what the big deal is rolling 30km/h out on what are mostly residential streets.... and left wondering do people still think most main roads are affected? Do they believe the misinformation about all of area within the canals being covered? Or do they object to 30km/h on local streets because it hinders rat running? Or what?
    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Has anyone ever driven at this speed? It feels like the world is stuck in slow motion..

    Try reading other posts in this thread?

    (None of this post is moderation, in this post, I am posting as a normal poster)


  • Options
    #110
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Deedsie wrote: »
    A driver in Dublin not obeying the law, how will we ever get over such a shock?

    Can we please try to keep this to speeds and speed limits?

    -- moderator


  • Options
    #111
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Has anyone ever driven at this speed? It feels like the world is stuck in slow motion.

    I would tend to agree with you ... but accroding to other posters here 30km/h is quite easy to maintain, just move up through the gears to 4th gear and you'll be fine. They say practice makes perfect.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i tried it a couple of months ago, albeit on the R108 which is not a road in any danger of dropping to 30.
    yes, it's an odd situation, you're used to going faster when you've an open road in front of you - but the road conditions did make it seem odd, as this was on the stretch near ikea, with lots of visibility and at least two lanes in each direction.
    but the issue was not a mechanical one, it was a psychological one.


  • Options
    #113
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    I think driving at 30km is utterly ridiculous for all drivers in cars, buses, vans, taxis, trucks, motorbikes...I for one will not be obeying it and will gladly accept the fine and points that come with it (then have the points quashed :D). Has anyone ever driven at this speed? It feels like the world is stuck in slow motion.

    Sure Usain Bolt can run at 44.72km...we all may aswell just run everywhere to avoid speeding fines.
    I'd drive at it when necessary or I've no choice due to traffic. I've rarely driven at 30 kph down the quays but i haven't been taking the preverbials either and it will be the same again. It's a revenue thing, once it's changed on the new routes you can be assured the gatsos will be out trying to catch as many doing the scary speed of 35kph.


  • Options
    #114
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    I'd drive at it when necessary or I've no choice due to traffic. I've rarely driven at 30 kph down the quays but i haven't been taking the preverbials either and it will be the same again. It's a revenue thing, once it's changed on the new routes you can be assured the gatsos will be out trying to catch as many doing the scary speed of 35kph.

    If it's a revenue thing then there would be speed checks along the quays all the time. That is not the case. 30kph limit is there for areas with high pedestrian traffic. It's a safety measure.


  • Options
    #115
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Ideal speed limits would be 70km/h on the wider, less populated arterial routes, 60km/h on the major arterial routes with some enhancements to pedestrian segregation, and 40km/h everywhere else.


  • Options
    #116
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i tried it a couple of months ago, albeit on the R108 which is not a road in any danger of dropping to 30.
    yes, it's an odd situation, you're used to going faster when you've an open road in front of you - but the road conditions did make it seem odd, as this was on the stretch near ikea, with lots of visibility and at least two lanes in each direction.
    but the issue was not a mechanical one, it was a psychological one.

    Same here, driving in my local estate 30 or less is very easy. Cars flood the place as it is near a business area amd many of us have young families. When someone goes over 40 it gives the impression of a daredevil ( they are typically self involved arses). Coming off the M50 tonight and going down to 80 and then 50 on an empty road felt strange and overly slow. It is also psychological. It's not slow, it just feels it because I was doing a.ton or over for the previous 40 minutes. A few minutes in and it was normal. It is incredibly easy to drive at 30kmph in a range of vehicles. It can just feel alien in some situations because many are not used to it. I have driven everything from a Honda 50, to a Massey 135 all the way up to a rigid 12 wheeler and alot of one's in between. With the exception of the first two (that would struggle to hit the limit) none of these vehicles are difficult to drive at 30kmph. It does not require great concentration to do so.


  • Options
    #117
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Ideal speed limits would be 70km/h on the wider, less populated arterial routes, 60km/h on the major arterial routes with some enhancements to pedestrian segregation, and 40km/h everywhere else.

    Ideal for who? Are there any cities which follow that?


  • Options
    #118
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    If it's a revenue thing then there would be speed checks along the quays all the time. That is not the case. 30kph limit is there for areas with high pedestrian traffic. It's a safety measure.
    Why do you think the cameras are there for? Not any pedestrian traffic on the blanch by pass where it's 30 kph but there's a gatso van parked up leading into in regularly.


  • Options
    #119
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    cameras? last time i saw a camera was three or four months ago.


  • Options
    #120
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Permanent ones on the poles.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Ideal speed limits would be 70km/h on the wider, less populated arterial routes, 60km/h on the major arterial routes with some enhancements to pedestrian segregation, and 40km/h everywhere else.
    Seems fairer.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement