Rainbow Cup 2021

prawnsambo · 16-04-2021 10:27am

sydthebeat wrote: »

i dont think it will impact the number of reds either way.

we are seeing a growth in red cards

if that growth stops and this law variation is in place.. will it be because of the variation or behaviour change?

look, im not an advocate for the law variation, but i do recognise that the increase in red card offenses has lead to an increase in red cards... and rugby is a game where a red card can have a significant impact on both the result of the game, and the points differential with other teams.

This one didn't make any real difference because it was late in the game, but imagine if it was in the first half. You'd have to wonder if new red card variation played a part in this.

sydthebeat · 16-04-2021 10:29am

prawnsambo wrote: »

This one didn't make any real difference because it was late in the game, but imagine if it was in the first half. You'd have to wonder if new red card variation played a part in this.

how would the red card variation have played a part in that?

prawnsambo · 16-04-2021 10:33am

sydthebeat wrote: »

how would the red card variation have played a part in that?

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

sydthebeat · 16-04-2021 11:10am

prawnsambo wrote: »

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

is there some line in the sand where, beyond which, all players have learned their lesson to tackle lower?

the blues lost the game by 6 points, and may have won it had they their full compliment on the field, so Hodgeman needs to apologies to his teammates (as well as collins) for that action

when hodgeman gets his ban for the red card, do you think that will be the point at which he learns his lesson?

look, ive already said im not an advocate for the law variation, and it wouldn't bother me either way if it was shelved, which probably will happen...
but i accept it for what it is, and why it is.....

its there as a recognition that a red card is a significant moment in a rugby game, especially early on in a game, which can have significant impact on competitions when points difference, TBPs and LBPs are taken into account.
its there as a recognition that the scope for giving a red card has increased significantly in the last decade and is ever increasing.
its there to keep games competitive in so far as possible, while still punishing the action within the game.

had finn russell got his red card in the first 5 mins against France, and France had routed out a 30 point victory against scotland... would that have been a fair outcome for the competition?

why should the time of the red card have such unbalanced influence on the game?
does that imbalance equate to a "lesson learned" by the player?

hahashake · 16-04-2021 11:16am

Por que no los dos?

If the TMO says mitigation or definite accidental then go to the lesser red, otherwise stick with the normal red card. Everyone who has watched rugby has seen red cards where by the letter of the law there is a card but where the offending player didn't actually act recklessly, they were unlucky, e.g. perfect tackle technique but an ankle tap caused the ball carrier to fall in the moment before contact. Don't see why this should be treated as equivalent to an malicious or reckless high shot.

We already give deafferent match ban length based on mitigating circumstances and intention etc.

thomond2006 · 20-04-2021 11:26am

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384445348421197824

Looks like the SA teams will be staying put. Pity.

PMC83 · 20-04-2021 11:34am

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384445348421197824

Looks like the SA teams will be staying put. Pity.

Ugh. So its basically a mini pro14 comp. Dull.

Eod100 · 20-04-2021 11:56am

No fixtures up on Pro14 site either. Wonder will it revert back to finishing Pro14 or just do the interpros?

Tigerandahalf · 20-04-2021 12:05pm

Stormers v Sharks is on eir sports 1 on Friday at 5.30pm. Kick off is 6 I think.

icdg · 20-04-2021 12:30pm

Eod100 wrote: »

No fixtures up on Pro14 site either. Wonder will it revert back to finishing Pro14 or just do the interpros?

They can hardly finish the season when they’ve already handed out the trophy?

Presumably there will be some sort of standalone Pro14 Cup tournament, with the groups somehow jigged to incorporate the derby fixtures already scheduled. You’d possibly need three groups (Irish, Welsh, and Scottish/Italian) and schedule each team to have three derbies plus one game against a team from each of the other two groups, I guess. Only gives you 5 games and everyone will want to be the team that draws Zebre, but I guess it’s more about keeping the players match fit until the summer I guess.

Eod100 · 20-04-2021 12:32pm

icdg wrote: »

They can hardly finish the season when they’ve already handed out the trophy?

Presumably there will be some sort of standalone Pro14 Cup tournament, with the groups somehow jigged to incorporate the derby fixtures already scheduled. You’d possibly need three groups (Irish, Welsh, and Scottish/Italian) and schedule each team to have three derbies plus one game against a team from each of the other two groups, I guess. Only gives you 5 games and everyone will want to be the team that draws Zebre, but I guess it’s more about keeping the players match fit until the summer I guess.

Yeah poorly phrased. Meant in sense of finishing season with Pro14 games.

icdg · 20-04-2021 1:18pm

The Independent (paywalled) is reporting similarly

https://twitter.com/indosport/status/1384463945012957184?s=21

Paul Smeenus · 20-04-2021 1:35pm

icdg wrote: »

The Independent (paywalled) is reporting similarly

https://twitter.com/indosport/status/1384463945012957184?s=21

Who could have seen this coming?

Well, absolutely everyone. What a load of ballicks.

Dubinusa · 20-04-2021 2:33pm

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

Lost Ormond · 20-04-2021 2:43pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

What would you do instead? The competition really needs the South Africans so had to attempt to bring them in now rather than wait until September. Unfortunately that hasnt worked out so it makes sense to put in a pro12 again in some form for the rest of the season

Thrashssacre · 20-04-2021 2:49pm

Is the pro 16 with the south Africans even conformed for next season? All ive heard from officials is how the rainbow Cup was in preparation of that but not that it was a done deal. Im not sure how the league survives without it if it ends up anything like this season was, attendance in Wales and Scotland will drop even lower then it already has.

20-04-2021 3:13pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

A cheap knock-off of a Mickey Mouse tournament

Blut2 · 20-04-2021 4:41pm

This is a disaster. I would have thought they'd have gotten concrete guarantees from the UK government before going ahead and cancelling the remainder of the 'normal' Pro14 season.

thomond2006 · 20-04-2021 5:21pm

Blut2 wrote: »

This is a disaster. I would have thought they'd have gotten concrete guarantees from the UK government before going ahead and cancelling the remainder of the 'normal' Pro14 season.

Given the times we live in, no government is going to give a 'concrete guarantee' to anyone.

Boscoirl · 20-04-2021 5:23pm

Do we still get to see the SA games this weekend?

Thrashssacre · 20-04-2021 6:22pm

Stomers coach saying they were training today and assume everything is going ahead, lions just dropped rainbow cup themed merch in the past hour, what the hell is going on here.... Absolute joke.

Teferi · 20-04-2021 6:24pm

The thick plottens

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384476182918303744?s=20

Blut2 · 20-04-2021 6:42pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Given the times we live in, no government is going to give a 'concrete guarantee' to anyone.

Hasn't the prospective Lions tour of the UK this summer secured exactly that, if rumours are to be believed?

Its also not like the UK just put South Africa on their travel red list this week, throwing plans suddenly/unexpectedly off - which would make the Saffers suddenly dropping out a lot more understandable. The UK's travel guidance for travel from South Africa hasn't changed since early February, what sudden last minute change could have occurred?

awec · 21-04-2021 12:00am

"More ProWhatever" is not the solution to any problem.

This sounds absolutely rubbish. Predictably.

Caranica · 21-04-2021 7:24am

I've never been so nonchalant about a rugby tournament involving my favourite team. It was bad enough with the South African teams but now... Enough with the Interpros!! Our 6th time playing Leinster in 8 months. Who can get excited about that. Give me Super Rugby Aotearoa, the only rugby I'm looking forward to this weekend, even at stupid o clock

Akrasia · 21-04-2021 7:55am

prawnsambo wrote: »

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

The player will still get cited and a hefty ban.

sydthebeat · 21-04-2021 8:06am

he got 3 weeks... his super rugby aotearoa season is over... and the ban will extended into the trans tasman should the blues fail to get to the aotearoa final

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-black-alex-hodgmans-super-rugby-aotearoa-season-over-after-copping-three-week-ban-red-card

Eod100 · 21-04-2021 9:26am

Looks like fixtures for first 3 rounds were added on Pro14 site since yesterday. Dunno does that mean anything though.

21-04-2021 9:46am

Teams will be playing each other online in full length games of Rugby '08. Each player has to play a certain number of minutes to count. This will avoid the need for international travel / quarantines / bubbles.

Apparently the Welsh teams have been practising for this tournament for years. Glasgow are reportedly extremely disappointed that Jonah Lomu Rugby was not the chosen platform.

icdg · 21-04-2021 9:50am

Gerry Thornley’s take.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-rainbow-cup-fiasco-leaves-us-with-a-dog-s-dinner-of-a-competition-1.4542906?mode=amp

Seemingly two groups of six, derbies and Scots/Italian games go ahead as planned, and then cross border games. Not sure how that all works out to be a fair competition with only six matches, but its all about having some sort of fixture list at this stage.

As for the South Africans - is there anything to be said for another Currie Cup, by whatever name?

Eod100 · 21-04-2021 10:16am

Split competition confirmed here

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/dual-tournament-approach

PMC83 · 21-04-2021 10:21am

'Confirmation that the Rainbow Cup will proceed without the four South African teams is imminent, and ought to cause huge embarrassment for the organisers of this one-off competition and the Guinness Pro14.'

Gerry coming off pretty smug here.

It was always going to be a punt, but the majority of fans wanted it and in terms of finances the unions needed it. It was a chance taken that didn't come off.

Cookiemunster · 21-04-2021 10:40am

The announcement also basically confirmed Pro16 for 21/22.

awec · 21-04-2021 10:42am

PMC83 wrote: »

'Confirmation that the Rainbow Cup will proceed without the four South African teams is imminent, and ought to cause huge embarrassment for the organisers of this one-off competition and the Guinness Pro14.'

Gerry coming off pretty smug here.

It was always going to be a punt, but the majority of fans wanted it and in terms of finances the unions needed it. It was a chance taken that didn't come off.

Did they?

This "dual tournament" approach is some laugh.

Eod100 · 21-04-2021 10:47am

PMC83 wrote: »

'Confirmation that the Rainbow Cup will proceed without the four South African teams is imminent, and ought to cause huge embarrassment for the organisers of this one-off competition and the Guinness Pro14.'

Gerry coming off pretty smug here.

It was always going to be a punt, but the majority of fans wanted it and in terms of finances the unions needed it. It was a chance taken that didn't come off.

It was always going to be fairly half arsed this year. even if it went ahead. Could have finished regular Pro14 and started new tournament in Autumn. Know there was pressure with finances etc but it always seemed like a fairly big gamble.

PMC83 · 21-04-2021 10:51am

awec wrote: »

Did they?

This "dual tournament" approach is some laugh.

From a lot of what I'm reading online, yeah. Would you prefer the league continue as is? A lot of people in forums and comment sections seem to agree that the SA teams will freshen things up and add much needed competitiveness to the PRO14.

Of course there will be those who enjoy downing the pro 14 no matter what they do but, if they aren't fans of it they wont have much good to say.

awec · 21-04-2021 10:56am

PMC83 wrote: »

From a lot of what I'm reading online, yeah. Would you prefer the league continue as is? A lot of people in forums and comment sections seem to agree that the SA teams will freshen things up and add much needed competitiveness to the PRO14.

Of course there will be those who enjoy downing the pro 14 no matter what they do but, if they aren't fans of it they wont have much good to say.

I would have preferred Ulster weren't denied their knockout game for this pile of absolute scutter.

its_phil · 21-04-2021 11:20am

PMC83 wrote: »

From a lot of what I'm reading online, yeah. Would you prefer the league continue as is? A lot of people in forums and comment sections seem to agree that the SA teams will freshen things up and add much needed competitiveness to the PRO14.

Of course there will be those who enjoy downing the pro 14 no matter what they do but, if they aren't fans of it they wont have much good to say.

I like the PRO14, but the organisers have gambled and messed this up. I'm raging that the set up took away the playoffs for Connacht.

Cookiemunster · 21-04-2021 12:15pm

The SARU still stumped up it's €6m entrance fee according to Murray Kinsella, so they had to do something. Yes it resulted in a less than ideal season, but every team is up €500k in times when money is very tight.

KBurke85 · 21-04-2021 1:41pm

its_phil wrote: »

I like the PRO14, but the organisers have gambled and messed this up. I'm raging that the set up took away the playoffs for Connacht.

As a Connacht fan that could be a blessing in disguise given how bad we played our last 5 games. A playoff game may not have been pretty

PMC83 · 21-04-2021 2:23pm

KBurke85 wrote: »

As a Connacht fan that could be a blessing in disguise given how bad we played our last 5 games. A playoff game may not have been pretty

TBF I understand the above grievances re teams missing playoff spots. My argument was more pro SA joining in the long term.

Would rather see the regular pro 14 played out then this mini cup or whatever.

At this stage I'm just looking forward to next season, where hopefully we can have proper pro 16 with home /away games against the saffas

theVersatile · 21-04-2021 2:44pm

I reckon like the Autumn Nations Cup, the interest will get re-kicked once it gets going

icdg · 21-04-2021 3:39pm

Just to note, because it wasn’t clear earlier, the South African fixtures for this weekend (Bulls v Lions, Stormers v Sharks) have all now been postponed (they’ve been removed from the Sky EPG for eir Sport) and it seems they are going to play the “Rainbow Cup SA” off over seven weeks at a later date, probably closer to the Lions Tour I guess.

Eod100 · 21-04-2021 3:49pm

icdg wrote: »

Just to note, because it wasn’t clear earlier, the South African fixtures for this weekend (Bulls v Lions, Stormers v Sharks) have all now been postponed (they’ve been removed from the Sky EPG for eir Sport) and it seems they are going to play the “Rainbow Cup SA” off over seven weeks at a later date, probably closer to the Lions Tour I guess.

Pro14 site updated alright without the SA fixtures.

Boscoirl · 21-04-2021 4:00pm

icdg wrote: »

Just to note, because it wasn’t clear earlier, the South African fixtures for this weekend (Bulls v Lions, Stormers v Sharks) have all now been postponed (they’ve been removed from the Sky EPG for eir Sport) and it seems they are going to play the “Rainbow Cup SA” off over seven weeks at a later date, probably closer to the Lions Tour I guess.

They are the games I was looking forward to

thelad95 · 21-04-2021 5:31pm

Seems to not have been suggested but to re-invigorate interest a little they should maybe have a match between the North and South winner when restrictions allow to determine the ultimate rainbow road winner.

Paul Smeenus · 21-04-2021 6:21pm

https://twitter.com/glove931/status/1384814722055352321?s=19

Made me laugh.

hold my beer · 23-04-2021 9:30am

Why are the Scottish and Italian teams playing each other instead of having derby games?

Squidgy Black · 23-04-2021 9:34am

hold my beer wrote: »

Why are the Scottish and Italian teams playing each other instead of having derby games?

Because there's only two Scottish teams and two Italian teams.

Doesn't make much sense to have Glasgow vs Edinburgh and Treviso vs Zebre 3 times in a row.

hold my beer · 23-04-2021 9:39am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Because there's only two Scottish teams and two Italian teams.

Doesn't make much sense to have Glasgow vs Edinburgh and Treviso vs Zebre 3 times in a row.

You'd think they would have went with local derbies first though.

Rainbow Cup 2021

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