Rainbow Cup 2021

prawnsambo

sydthebeat wrote: »

i dont think it will impact the number of reds either way.

we are seeing a growth in red cards

if that growth stops and this law variation is in place.. will it be because of the variation or behaviour change?

look, im not an advocate for the law variation, but i do recognise that the increase in red card offenses has lead to an increase in red cards... and rugby is a game where a red card can have a significant impact on both the result of the game, and the points differential with other teams.

This one didn't make any real difference because it was late in the game, but imagine if it was in the first half. You'd have to wonder if new red card variation played a part in this.

sydthebeat

prawnsambo wrote: »

This one didn't make any real difference because it was late in the game, but imagine if it was in the first half. You'd have to wonder if new red card variation played a part in this.

how would the red card variation have played a part in that?

prawnsambo

sydthebeat wrote: »

how would the red card variation have played a part in that?

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

sydthebeat

prawnsambo wrote: »

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

is there some line in the sand where, beyond which, all players have learned their lesson to tackle lower?

the blues lost the game by 6 points, and may have won it had they their full compliment on the field, so Hodgeman needs to apologies to his teammates (as well as collins) for that action

when hodgeman gets his ban for the red card, do you think that will be the point at which he learns his lesson?

look, ive already said im not an advocate for the law variation, and it wouldn't bother me either way if it was shelved, which probably will happen...
but i accept it for what it is, and why it is.....

its there as a recognition that a red card is a significant moment in a rugby game, especially early on in a game, which can have significant impact on competitions when points difference, TBPs and LBPs are taken into account.
its there as a recognition that the scope for giving a red card has increased significantly in the last decade and is ever increasing.
its there to keep games competitive in so far as possible, while still punishing the action within the game.

had finn russell got his red card in the first 5 mins against France, and France had routed out a 30 point victory against scotland... would that have been a fair outcome for the competition?

why should the time of the red card have such unbalanced influence on the game?
does that imbalance equate to a "lesson learned" by the player?

hahashake

Por que no los dos?

If the TMO says mitigation or definite accidental then go to the lesser red, otherwise stick with the normal red card. Everyone who has watched rugby has seen red cards where by the letter of the law there is a card but where the offending player didn't actually act recklessly, they were unlucky, e.g. perfect tackle technique but an ankle tap caused the ball carrier to fall in the moment before contact. Don't see why this should be treated as equivalent to an malicious or reckless high shot.

We already give deafferent match ban length based on mitigating circumstances and intention etc.

thomond2006

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384445348421197824

Looks like the SA teams will be staying put. Pity.

PMC83

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384445348421197824

Looks like the SA teams will be staying put. Pity.

Ugh. So its basically a mini pro14 comp. Dull.

Eod100

No fixtures up on Pro14 site either. Wonder will it revert back to finishing Pro14 or just do the interpros?

Tigerandahalf

Stormers v Sharks is on eir sports 1 on Friday at 5.30pm. Kick off is 6 I think.

icdg

Eod100 wrote: »

No fixtures up on Pro14 site either. Wonder will it revert back to finishing Pro14 or just do the interpros?

They can hardly finish the season when they’ve already handed out the trophy?

Presumably there will be some sort of standalone Pro14 Cup tournament, with the groups somehow jigged to incorporate the derby fixtures already scheduled. You’d possibly need three groups (Irish, Welsh, and Scottish/Italian) and schedule each team to have three derbies plus one game against a team from each of the other two groups, I guess. Only gives you 5 games and everyone will want to be the team that draws Zebre, but I guess it’s more about keeping the players match fit until the summer I guess.

Eod100

icdg wrote: »

They can hardly finish the season when they’ve already handed out the trophy?

Presumably there will be some sort of standalone Pro14 Cup tournament, with the groups somehow jigged to incorporate the derby fixtures already scheduled. You’d possibly need three groups (Irish, Welsh, and Scottish/Italian) and schedule each team to have three derbies plus one game against a team from each of the other two groups, I guess. Only gives you 5 games and everyone will want to be the team that draws Zebre, but I guess it’s more about keeping the players match fit until the summer I guess.

Yeah poorly phrased. Meant in sense of finishing season with Pro14 games.

icdg

The Independent (paywalled) is reporting similarly

https://twitter.com/indosport/status/1384463945012957184?s=21

Paul Smeenus

icdg wrote: »

The Independent (paywalled) is reporting similarly

https://twitter.com/indosport/status/1384463945012957184?s=21

Who could have seen this coming?

Well, absolutely everyone. What a load of ballicks.

Dubinusa

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

Lost Ormond

Dubinusa wrote: »

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

What would you do instead? The competition really needs the South Africans so had to attempt to bring them in now rather than wait until September. Unfortunately that hasnt worked out so it makes sense to put in a pro12 again in some form for the rest of the season

Thrashssacre

Is the pro 16 with the south Africans even conformed for next season? All ive heard from officials is how the rainbow Cup was in preparation of that but not that it was a done deal. Im not sure how the league survives without it if it ends up anything like this season was, attendance in Wales and Scotland will drop even lower then it already has.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Jesus! It gets more retarded by the minute. A Mackey mouse tournament now.

A cheap knock-off of a Mickey Mouse tournament

Blut2

This is a disaster. I would have thought they'd have gotten concrete guarantees from the UK government before going ahead and cancelling the remainder of the 'normal' Pro14 season.

thomond2006

Blut2 wrote: »

This is a disaster. I would have thought they'd have gotten concrete guarantees from the UK government before going ahead and cancelling the remainder of the 'normal' Pro14 season.

Given the times we live in, no government is going to give a 'concrete guarantee' to anyone.

Boscoirl

Do we still get to see the SA games this weekend?

Thrashssacre

Stomers coach saying they were training today and assume everything is going ahead, lions just dropped rainbow cup themed merch in the past hour, what the hell is going on here.... Absolute joke.

Teferi

The thick plottens

https://twitter.com/craigray11/status/1384476182918303744?s=20

Blut2

thomond2006 wrote: »

Given the times we live in, no government is going to give a 'concrete guarantee' to anyone.

Hasn't the prospective Lions tour of the UK this summer secured exactly that, if rumours are to be believed?

Its also not like the UK just put South Africa on their travel red list this week, throwing plans suddenly/unexpectedly off - which would make the Saffers suddenly dropping out a lot more understandable. The UK's travel guidance for travel from South Africa hasn't changed since early February, what sudden last minute change could have occurred?

awec

"More ProWhatever" is not the solution to any problem.

This sounds absolutely rubbish. Predictably.

Caranica

I've never been so nonchalant about a rugby tournament involving my favourite team. It was bad enough with the South African teams but now... Enough with the Interpros!! Our 6th time playing Leinster in 8 months. Who can get excited about that. Give me Super Rugby Aotearoa, the only rugby I'm looking forward to this weekend, even at stupid o clock

Akrasia

prawnsambo wrote: »

That was probably one of the most blatant shots to the head I've seen in a long time. Either the lesson hasn't been learned (so why vary it?) or the message is that you can continue to do it and the cost is lower. Hence the wondering.

The player will still get cited and a hefty ban.

sydthebeat

he got 3 weeks... his super rugby aotearoa season is over... and the ban will extended into the trans tasman should the blues fail to get to the aotearoa final

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-black-alex-hodgmans-super-rugby-aotearoa-season-over-after-copping-three-week-ban-red-card

Eod100

Looks like fixtures for first 3 rounds were added on Pro14 site since yesterday. Dunno does that mean anything though.

Teams will be playing each other online in full length games of Rugby '08. Each player has to play a certain number of minutes to count. This will avoid the need for international travel / quarantines / bubbles.

Apparently the Welsh teams have been practising for this tournament for years. Glasgow are reportedly extremely disappointed that Jonah Lomu Rugby was not the chosen platform.

icdg

Gerry Thornley’s take.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-rainbow-cup-fiasco-leaves-us-with-a-dog-s-dinner-of-a-competition-1.4542906?mode=amp

Seemingly two groups of six, derbies and Scots/Italian games go ahead as planned, and then cross border games. Not sure how that all works out to be a fair competition with only six matches, but its all about having some sort of fixture list at this stage.

As for the South Africans - is there anything to be said for another Currie Cup, by whatever name?