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Extinction Rebellion Ireland

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    #302
    Jimmy_oc1998
    Site Banned Posts: 73 ✭✭Jimmy_oc1998


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    The cult exploitation of the vulnerable took another step when Miss Trunburg was chosen to be exploited to promote their doomsday dogma. I really feel sorry for the autistic young Swedish woman who is clearly being used. It is obvious that she has become consumed by fear, the fear of doomsday generated by the cult. The vacant thousand yard stare, the scripted monotone responces, etc .

    She was exploited by her greedy parents who want to make money and to give their autistic kid a feeling of being important.

    Al Gore has been on about climate change for decades and no one listens yet this 16 year old autist comes along and everyone is bunking off school and work to protest in the streets.

    I saw a video a friend on fb shared last week of her speaking in the European Parliament I think it was. A very very creepy video! A young 16 year old autisitic kid crying about forests being cut down etc. Then everyone stands up to applaud her at the end.

    The whole thing felt like a pat on the head. It's like as a kid your granddad would say you're a great fella for sweeping up leaves or something.


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    #303
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote: »
    All these grants etc. people list to claim the government have given incentives are no use.

    People still have to spend thousands of euro of their own money.

    Why should I have to spend 10 thousand on upgrading my heating system when I'm happy spending 300 euro a year burning turf?
    Turf has the immediate effect of emitting high levels of pm2.5. These have an awful effect on health and especially child development.

    Otherwise you have a point. The cost of a heat pump based system in an older house is prohibitive for most people. The deep retrofit grant application is onerous and slow.

    A condensing gas boiler is far better than turf though, and not excessively expensive. Most fireplaces and stoves are **** and produce loads of pm2.5.


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    #304
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote: »
    She was exploited by her greedy parents who want to make money and to give their autistic kid a feeling of being important.

    Al Gore has been on about climate change for decades and no one listens yet this 16 year old autist comes along and everyone is bunking off school and work to protest in the streets.

    I saw a video a friend on fb shared last week of her speaking in the European Parliament I think it was. A very very creepy video! A young 16 year old autisitic kid crying about forests being cut down etc. Then everyone stands up to applaud her at the end.

    The whole thing felt like a pat on the head. It's like as a kid your granddad would say you're a great fella for sweeping up leaves or something.
    Autism is not relevant.

    She represents our children who are the ones who are going to be worst affected. Al Gore represents the aloof elite and has questionable sincerity... One is a lecture from a bit of a git. The other is a plea from someone vulnerable who will be badly harmed.


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    #305
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    The cult exploitation of the vulnerable took another step when Miss Trunburg was chosen to be exploited to promote their doomsday dogma. I really feel sorry for the autistic young Swedish woman who is clearly being used. It is obvious that she has become consumed by fear, the fear of doomsday generated by the cult. The vacant thousand yard stare, the scripted monotone responces, etc .

    Actually, you're the person using her autism. You're using as a reason to discredit what she says and her motivations.

    people who have ASD are perfectly capable of making decisions by themselves. ASD does not mean that she's helpless, or gullible or incapable of controlling her own decisions.

    All you're doing is taking the fact that she is ASD to make it appear that she lacks the faculties. It's an ad hominem pure and simple.

    I would suggest that you do some research about ASD before you go slurring people with it.


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    #306
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »
    Autism is not relevant.

    She represents our children who are the ones who are going to be worst affected. Al Gore represents the aloof elite and has questionable sincerity... One is a lecture from a bit of a git. The other is a plea from someone vulnerable who will be badly harmed.

    The other point here is that she cites Al Gore as one of her environmental heroes and an major influence to her beliefs. Considering Gores investments in such things as the ethically dubious 'finance' company such as M-Kopra which floggs finance plans in various African countries. These finance plans are provided to encourage poor Kenyans and others to buy cheaply produced Chinesse 'green' products from the same company.


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    #307
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    I videoed the full event there if anyone is interested, link below:

    https://youtu.be/ceyAYEItEMA


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    #308
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Grayson wrote: »
    Actually, you're the person using her autism. You're using as a reason to discredit what she says and her motivations. people who have ASD are perfectly capable of making decisions by themselves. ASD does not mean that she's helpless, or gullible or incapable of controlling her own decisions. All you're doing is taking the fact that she is ASD to make it appear that she lacks the faculties. It's an ad hominem pure and simple.

    I would suggest that you do some research about ASD before you go slurring people with it.

    The poster is not "slurring people" (sic). As detailed above Greta Thungberg has frequently talked about how Autism (Aspergers) and OCD has impacted her thinking. I would suggest you also do some research.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973897/6/#post109998180


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    #309
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    gozunda wrote: »
    The poster is not "slurring people" (sic). As I detailed above Greta Thungberg has frequently talked about how Autism (Aspergers) and OCD has impacted her thinking. I would suggest you also do some research.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973897/6/#post109998180

    Vacant thousand yard stare? That was a direct dig at her asd.


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    #310
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »
    Autism is not relevant.

    She represents our children who are the ones who are going to be worst affected. Al Gore represents the aloof elite and has questionable sincerity... One is a lecture from a bit of a git. The other is a plea from someone vulnerable who will be badly harmed.

    Here’s the reason that convinced her, pictures of starving polar bears that her teacher showed her when she was 8. She’s losing her credibility fast. Talking on empty rooms that supposedly ate full of world leaders Evan Theresa May even refused to meet her.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tan123/status/1120669325260668928


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    #311
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    gozunda wrote: »
    I detailed in a previous post how she herself says her condition is relevant tbh. She has apparently been raised on a diet of various doomsday scenario type environmentalism which appears to have had a serious impact on her health. There is also a significant difference in being a child and been representative of all children.

    The other point here is that she has cited Al Gore as one of her environmental heroes and an major influence to her beliefs. Considering Gore's investment in such things as the ethically dubious 'finance' company such as M-Kopra which floggs finance plans in various African countries. These finance plans are provided to encourage poor Kenyans and others to buy mass produced Chinesse 'green' products from the same company.

    From this we now have people within the extiction rebellion movement citing her as an influence on their thinking. And some wonder why others are sceptical?
    It's not beliefs. It's logical conclusions based on observed reality. That's the core point. Doesn't matter what you think of anyone who talks about it.

    As such I won't ask what the m-kopra thing is about, though I did Google and find nothing apart from this very thread.


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    #312
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »
    It's not beliefs. It's logical conclusions based on observed reality. That's the core point. Doesn't matter what you think of anyone who talks about it.As such I won't ask what the m-kopra thing is about, though I did Google and find nothing apart from this very thread.

    She details how her beliefs have been influenced by others including Al Gore. Funnily enough we can all come to "logical conclusions based on observed reality". (sic). However your reality and mine or anyone elses are not going to be the same. Those setting her up as some kind of savant is not particularly helpful tbh.

    As for M-Kopa - I've already provided a link detailing an article done by Bloomberg etc. There has also been several other reviews of the company out there.


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    #313
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Grayson wrote: »
    Vacant thousand yard stare? That was a direct dig at her asd.

    Not my quote however I believe the poster was describing what her giving a speech on the video he watched. An observation rather than having a 'dig' imo.


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    #314
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    gozunda wrote: »
    I detailed in a previous post how she herself says her condition is relevant tbh. She has apparently been raised on a diet of various doomsday scenario type environmentalism which appears to have had a serious impact on her health. There is also a significant difference in being a child and been representative of all children.

    The other point here is that she has cited Al Gore as one of her environmental heroes and an major influence to her beliefs. Considering Gore's investment in such things as the ethically dubious 'finance' company such as M-Kopa which floggs finance plans in various African countries. These finance plans are provided to encourage poor Kenyans and others to buy mass produced Chinesse 'green' products from the same company.

    In short they power people’s homes with solar. Is there a breitbart or other place where you are getting this ill formed nonsense.
    From this we now have people within the extiction rebellion movement citing her as an influence on their thinking. And some wonder why others are sceptical?

    I’d say you started off sceptical.


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    #315
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,242 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    gozunda wrote: »
    It is also important to ask what behaviour 'needs' to be changed and who is seeking this change. Direct health issues such as smoking are not comparable to altering someones right to provide and protect for their family which is what the previous poster referred to.
    The behaviour that needs changing is excessive use of CO2 polluting energy sources, and failure to do so will result in harm to your family in the not so distant future. Climate change is already having an impact, if it gets beyond 2 degrees C, the scientific consensus is that this will impose serious risks to the health and safety of you and your family in the decades to come.
    Again that is postulation. 'Could / might / may' is not scientific fact. It's little more than scaremongering at this point in time. We could all be wiped out by influenza next winter.
    Scientific predictions always refer to probabilities rather than absolute certainties. When the predictions have a high enough confidence attached to them then they should be acted on. In the case of climate change, there certainly are uncertainties, but this is not a good thing. Things might not be as bad as predicted by the likes of the IPCC, but things could also be much worse. We do not know for sure how quickly some of the most dangerous tipping points will be reached.

    If there was even a 10% chance that there was a virulent strain of influenza that had the potential to 'wipe us all out' then you can be sure that there would be global action to prevent it from spreading and to isolate the source and develop vaccinations against it. We can only act based on the best available information. We have more than enough evidence to compel us to act on climate change.
    *
    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1092514/disease-x-virus-spanish-flu-what-is-it


    *Please note the choice of publication is deliberate ...
    You deliberately chose a publication that constantly exaggerates the impact of almost everything it reports on. What does that have to do with climate change and the likes of the IPCC or the WMO or the various national Acadamies of sciences, or the foremost scientific experts in their fields who all warn that climate change poses very severe risks and must be contained to as close to 1.5c above pre-industrial temperatures as possible?


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    #316
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    In short they power people’s homes with solar. Is there a breitbart or other place where you are getting this ill formed nonsense. I’d say you started off sceptical.

    Yeah you've posted something similar previously. You've still got it wrong.

    In short they flog finance plans to poor Africans to buy their mass produced Chinesse products including solar arrays and televisions. I first learned about this from a group who works with a NGO in Kenya. They were less than enthusiastic regarding the operation. Perhaps a little more research might lead to be a bit more open mindedess and less bias? .

    "Scepticism is as much the result of knowledge, as knowledge is of scepticism"

    Why the need to get personal with the comments btw?


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    #317
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,242 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote: »
    All these grants etc. people list to claim the government have given incentives are no use.

    People still have to spend thousands of euro of their own money.

    Why should I have to spend 10 thousand on upgrading my heating system when I'm happy spending 300 euro a year burning turf?

    You've just made an argument for a tax on harvesting turf.

    Turf burning has a very high environmental impact and very low heating efficiency, it pollutes the air with damaging particulates which cause serious health impacts on your neighbours (especially if you live in a built up area) and if you burn it in an open fire, it has negative health effects on you and your family.

    Or to put it another way, if the EPA allowed a waste to energy incinerator a few miles upwind of your house, you might object to it because of the potential air pollution, but the smoke that comes from that incinerator is likely to be less harmful to your health than the smoke coming from your own fireplace and chimney


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    #318
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The behaviour that needs changing is excessive use of CO2 polluting energy sources, and failure to do so will result in harm to your family in the not so distant future. Climate change is already having an impact, if it gets beyond 2 degrees C, the scientific consensus is that this will impose serious risks to the health and safety of you and your family in the decades to come.

    Sigh. Again that's nothing to do with the point the previous posting was making. But whatever you're having yourself.
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Scientific predictions always refer to probabilities rather than absolute certainties. When the predictions have a high enough confidence attached to them then they should be acted on. In the case of climate change, there certainly are uncertainties, but this is not a good thing. Things might not be as bad as predicted by the likes of the IPCC, but things could also be much worse. We do not know for sure how quickly some of the most dangerous tipping points will be reached.

    Is that a lecture on probability theory? If you read what was written - you will note that I referred to various fictional doomsday scenarios that have little if anything to do with research on climate change. Most of these apocalyptic imaginations appear to have been arrived at after adding 2 plus 2 and getting 76 and three quarters.
    Akrasia wrote: »
    If there was even a 10% chance that there was a virulent strain of influenza that had the potential to 'wipe us all out' then you can be sure that there would be global action to prevent it from spreading and to isolate the source and develop vaccinations against it. We can only act based on the best available information. We have more than enough evidence to compel us to act on climate change.

    I was of course referring to the to the 'might / may / could' theorists who appear to base future doomsday scenarios on absolute sensationalism. However that appeared to go straight over your head for some reason...
    You deliberately chose a publication that constantly exaggerates the impact of almost everything it reports on. What does that have to do with climate change and the likes of the IPCC or the WMO or the various national Acadamies of sciences, or the foremost scientific experts in their fields who all warn that climate change poses very severe risks and must be contained to as close to 1.5c above pre-industrial temperatures as possible?

    I deliberatly chose that publication as a given example of the type of sensationalism similar to that exhibited by some in this movement and apparently taken as a given by many of the extinction rebellion protesters.


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    #319
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,242 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't know why you keep referring to fraudulant and over hyped scare stories that were fabricated in the media. We're talking about Climate change here. Climate change is real and the urgency to act immediately is also real. The kinds of 'alarmism' you and others talk about is justified with reference to the scientific literature. One of the best science journals in the world PNAS published a paper in August last year that had this as part of its conclusion
    Our analysis suggests that the Earth System may be approaching a planetary threshold that could lock in a continuing rapid pathway toward much hotter conditions—Hothouse Earth. This pathway would be propelled by strong, intrinsic, biogeophysical feedbacks difficult to influence by human actions, a pathway that could not be reversed, steered, or substantially slowed.

    Where such a threshold might be is uncertain, but it could be only decades ahead at a temperature rise of ∼2.0 °C above preindustrial, and thus, it could be within the range of the Paris Accord temperature targets.

    The impacts of a Hothouse Earth pathway on human societies would likely be massive, sometimes abrupt, and undoubtedly disruptive.


    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/33/8252
    they go on to list the compelling reasons to believe that we may be approaching a tipping point, although we can not be sure exactly where the threshold is, it could be within a couple of decades if we continue on our current emissions pathway

    The 'Alarmists' can base their view on an accurate account of perfectly respectable scientific studies, which is what makes them a lot more credible than the likes of the Express or other sensationalist media outlets.


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    #320
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Akrasia wrote: »
    I don't know why you keep referring to fraudulant and over hyped scare stories that were fabricated in the media. We're talking about Climate change here. Climate change is real and the urgency to act immediately is also real. The kinds of 'alarmism' you and others talk about is justified with reference to the scientific literature. One of the best science journals in the world PNAS published a paper in August last year that had this as part of its conclusion

    No we're not. We are talking about shrills and ideologues riding on the back of 'climate change' and that which was the topic of my post. Gerit? What is being pushed is doomsday sensationalism which has bugger all got to do with peer reviewed scientific research.

    Akrasia wrote: »
    they go on to list the compelling reasons to believe that we may be approaching a tipping point, although we can not be sure exactly where the threshold is, it could be within a couple of decades if we continue on our current emissions pathway

    As above. Ditto.
    Akrasia wrote: »
    The 'Alarmists' can base their view on an accurate account of perfectly respectable scientific studies, which is what makes them a lot more credible than the likes of the Express or other sensationalist media outlets.

    The 'alarmists' are exactly that - alarmists. Again the story from the Express is exactly like the type of hyperbole being promoted and pushed by various vested interests.


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    #321
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The behaviour that needs changing is excessive use of CO2 polluting energy sources, and failure to do so will result in harm to your family in the not so distant future. Climate change is already having an impact, if it gets beyond 2 degrees C, the scientific consensus is that this will impose serious risks to the health and safety of you and your family in the decades to come.

    According to Al Gore the ice caps should have melted five years ago. Still there.


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    #322
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Akrasia wrote: »
    We're talking about Climate change here. Climate change is real and the urgency to act immediately is also real..

    There is an urgency to tax and or increase taxes immediately. Full stop. Fur coats and crowns for the officialdom dealing with it and friends.


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    #323
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    biolpg looks like it might be the best option if not on natural gas network and not able to afford a heat pump setup. (Dont know how its footprint compares with natural gas, but gas is less than half the cost and way more convenient so it's the default option where available.)

    Domestic heating is a huge contributor. Your domestic heating footprint is typically much greater than double your footprint from driving. Our domestic footprint is much greater than the EU average.

    It makes no sense that the most damaging options are the most affordable. Taxes and subsidies should reverse this. But right now, for me, kerosene is the cheapest option, followed by LPG, followed by bioLPG, and the outlay to set up a heat pump is unreasonably great.

    Subsidies should be seamless also. Some of the grants are slow and onerous to apply for.

    A second thing is that it is remarkably awkward to figure out what the carbon footprint is for various things. Assuming you aren't going fully freegan crusty, then you need to make informed decisions about how to make efficient choices.

    A little research gives sample ballpark figures like this, which may or may not be accurate:

    Electric car: 1 ton CO2 per year.
    1.6l diesel car: 1.7 tonnes CO2 per year.
    Condensing gas boiler, using LPG: 4 tonnes CO2 per year.
    Heat pump: 3 tonnes CO2 per year
    One return economy flight from Dublin to LA: 1.3 tonnes CO2 (pro rata) (!)
    Each child you have: 59 tonnes per year (!)
    Vegetarian diet: 0.8 tonnes less CO2 per year than average diet.
    Vegan diet: 1.5 tonnes less CO2 per year than average diet

    This sort of practical information needs to be clearly communicated. And people need to be stopped from having lots of children.


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    #324
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Jimmy Garlic wrote:
    According to Al Gore the ice caps should have melted five years ago. Still there.


    thunberg is dead right, the best way to deal with deniers, is don't


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    #325
    Jimmy_oc1998
    Site Banned Posts: 73 ✭✭Jimmy_oc1998


    Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »
    Autism is not relevant.

    She represents our children who are the ones who are going to be worst affected. Al Gore represents the aloof elite and has questionable sincerity... One is a lecture from a bit of a git. The other is a plea from someone vulnerable who will be badly harmed.

    One is from an extremely intelligent man who has put his money where his mouth is and the other is an autistic kid used as a pawn by her parents to make money and give her a self of importance.


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    #326
    Jimmy_oc1998
    Site Banned Posts: 73 ✭✭Jimmy_oc1998


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    thunberg is dead right, the best way to deal with deniers, is don't

    Just make the 16 year old money maker for her parents as PM of the world! AND BUY THEIR BOOK.


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    #327
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote: »
    One is from an extremely intelligent man who has put his money where his mouth is and the other is an autistic kid used as a pawn by her parents to make money and give her a self of importance.
    I just remember he redirected a load of water to provide rapids for him to canoe down while campaigning in 1999. It was a dry summer so it risked drought. It's beside the point anyway. The point is the point, not the person making it.


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    #328
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote: »
    Just make the 16 year old money maker for her parents as PM of the world! AND BUY THEIR BOOK.

    And her rich parents dress her up like an 8 year old pauper so gullible fools will lap up her nonsense.


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    #329
    Jimmy_oc1998
    Site Banned Posts: 73 ✭✭Jimmy_oc1998


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    And her rich parents dress her up like an 8 year old pauper so gullible fools will lap up her nonsense.

    Sure that sums up society perfectly....get someone to tug on the heart strings to influence them how you want.

    It's why those stories about kids being sent back because they're not legal always have the face of the kid in the story to humanise it.


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    #330
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    gozunda wrote: »
    I doubt very much anyone would believe the video has been edited video to have an Extinction Rebellion activist appear to be shouting 'Racist Pig at the police.

    You don't have a clue mate. I don't know whether you're wilfully ignorant or just trolling again.


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    #331
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote:
    One is from an extremely intelligent man who has put his money where his mouth is and the other is an autistic kid used as a pawn by her parents to make money and give her a self of importance.

    Jimmy_oc1998 wrote:
    Just make the 16 year old money maker for her parents as PM of the world! AND BUY THEIR BOOK.

    You clearly don't have a fcuking clue about autism or environmental matters


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