Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rent Increase without notice

Options
  • 25-02-2021 6:28pm
    #1
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Just got this email from the estate agents today:

    Your rent was increased to €X on the 31st of December 2020 however we have continued to receive your rent of €Y per month.


    Because of this your account is now in arrears.

    This is the first I've heard anything about any increase, I've emailed them back saying so now. They usually would have sent the official letter, with notice and similar properties etc but nothing this year.

    I am wondering what to do here? I assume they are going to say they sent a letter? Will see. I'm not happy with the first time I'm hearing of a rent increase (5.6% - I assume the maximum they are allowed to do due to the rent freeze) is that I am in arrears about it.


«134

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Just got this email from the estate agents today:




    This is the first I've heard anything about any increase, I've emailed them back saying so now. They usually would have sent the official letter, with notice and similar properties etc but nothing this year.

    I am wondering what to do here? I assume they are going to say they sent a letter? Will see. I'm not happy with the first time I'm hearing of a rent increase (5.6% - I assume the maximum they are allowed to do due to the rent freeze) is that I am in arrears about it.

    Best of luck Op. It does not sound like proper practice was followed.


  • Options
    #3
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    The burden of proof is on the agent or landlord.
    If they can't prove you got the letter via a registered post then there is nothing they can do.


  • Options
    #4
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Threshold and rtb have lots of info. If in an rpz the cap is 4pc every 2 years and you must receive the full calculation otherwise you can proceed by registering a breach to rtb.

    If you had covid and we're getting a pup there are additional protections.


  • Options
    #5
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    It doesn't appear to be a legal rent review if you haven't received written notice of it. Full details of what should be included in a rent review are here:

    https://www.rtb.ie/news/new-notices-of-rent-review-from-01-july-2019

    In short, you should get a written notice 90 days before the increased rent is due to come into effect (assuming that a rent review is allowable)


  • Options
    #6
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    The burden of proof is on the agent or landlord.
    If they can't prove you got the letter via a registered post then there is nothing they can do.

    They sent me this receipt saying they used express post, to show proof that they posted it (not that received it). Is that sufficient?

    JmgoGZe.png


    I tried tracking those, and while it says they are delivered, it doesn't say where. I imagine it is above board but as I didn't get the letter I'm not happy about it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    They sent me this receipt saying they used express post, to show proof that they posted it (not that received it). Is that sufficient?

    JmgoGZe.png


    I tried tracking those, and while it says they are delivered, it doesn't say where. I imagine it is above board but as I didn't get the letter I'm not happy about it.

    Does it have your address on it?


  • Options
    #8
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    There are no addresses at all when tracked, just that it was delivered:
    30 September 2020 14:01

    We delivered your post

    30 September 2020 09:17

    Your post is out for delivery

    30 September 2020 01:47

    We have your post and are getting it ready for delivery

    29 September 2020 23:41

    Your delivery has been sorted DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

    29 September 2020 17:15

    Your post was accepted in INCHICORE, DUBLIN 8


  • Options
    #9
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Seems unlikely that they could use it as proof of delivery then, sure it could be to any address


  • Options
    #10
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Yeah true, I'm sure an post themselves could give more info. At the end of the day it does seem like they sent it and the letter got stolen or or lost or something so while unhappy about it, I guess I should pay.


  • Options
    #11
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,131 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Yeah true, I'm sure an post themselves could give more info. At the end of the day it does seem like they sent it and the letter got stolen or or lost or something so while unhappy about it, I guess I should pay.

    As there is no proof that you received a written rent review, you should request a new notice to be issued noting the correct timescale for the increase to commence.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As there is no proof that you received a written rent review, you should request a new notice to be issued noting the correct timescale for the increase to commence.

    Should they have proof I received it over just proof that they sent it?


  • Options
    #13
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Should they have proof I received it over just proof that they sent it?

    You can request a pod/signature.rung an post and give the tracking number. They will ask for your email and send it to you.
    At least if you see who signed for it you might know where it ended up.
    Not receiving the post specially from express labels would have me worried that my other post is getting lost or signed for by someone else


  • Options
    #14
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I looked up express post and there is only a need for a signature if they pay extra, which they did not I guess. I actually contacted them about post being stolen here and the management company but nothing is being done about it.


  • Options
    #15
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Should they have proof I received it over just proof that they sent it?

    I would expect so. As it stands, they have proof that they sent something to somebody on that date but nothing further. Since it's an agent, it's possible that they send things all the time and they thought they sent yours but never did.


  • Options
    #16
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,131 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Should they have proof I received it over just proof that they sent it?

    I would imagine that the tracking numbers you were sent show only a letter was sent, not whom it was sent to and what was in it.


  • Options
    #17
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,041 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Since Covid arrived there has been no signing for post/parcels, the delivery person signs themselves.

    What the agent sent is about as much use to them as a chocolate teapot. It could have been picked up on the street, items could have been posted to their grandmother. It is not proof that you've been notified of a rent increase.


  • Options
    #18
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I rang An Post and it was delivered to an address in my Dublin 7 (correct) but that is all the info they have, and there are tons of apartments rented here by them.
    So they could have sent it to me or to somebody else, no way to tell.


  • Options
    #19
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    All that image says is that they have sent some stuff, no details of where it is going, let them send on the proper notification.


  • Options
    #20
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Who has to dispute with who here? Does OP have to dispute with the RTB that their agent has given an invalid review or does thae agent have to to the RTB to prove arrears?


  • Options
    #21
    Subutai
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Browney7 wrote: »
    Who has to dispute with who here? Does OP have to dispute with the RTB that their agent has given an invalid review or does thae agent have to to the RTB to prove arrears?

    OP does not have to do anything other than continue to pay his/her rent at the current rate unless and until they receive a valid notice of a rent review.

    The landlord could raise a dispute over alleged arrears. They would lose if they cannot show evidence that the rent review notice was both correct and received.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Subutai wrote: »
    OP does not have to do anything other than continue to pay his/her rent at the current rate unless and until they receive a valid notice of a rent review.

    The landlord could raise a dispute over alleged arrears. They would lose if they cannot show evidence that the rent review notice was both correct and received.

    So just thinking down the escalation line (if it escalated that is and not to be alarmist about it) , is the risk to the OP that the agent is adamant they did send it, issues 14 days notice of arrears, issue notice of termination for arrears not rectified etc.

    Then agent goes to RTB to remove tenant and shows the letter at adjudication to RTB, shows the an post receipt and the OPs only evidence is "I never got the letter" (can't prove a negative) can It be deemed a valid termination or does the Agent have to prove it was in effect put in the tenants possession?


  • Options
    #23
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Browney7 wrote: »
    So just thinking down the escalation line (if it escalated that is and not to be alarmist about it) , is the risk to the OP that the agent is adamant they did send it, issues 14 days notice of arrears, issue notice of termination for arrears not rectified etc.

    Then agent goes to RTB to remove tenant and shows the letter at adjudication to RTB, shows the an post receipt and the OPs only evidence is "I never got the letter" (can't prove a negative) can It be deemed a valid termination or does the Agent have to prove it was in effect put in the tenants possession?

    It's up to the agent to prove that they gave a valid notice of rent review; I don't believe they can do that so RTB would rule in favour of the tenant.


  • Options
    #24
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    As far as I can see this can only really go 3 ways -
    • OP pays the increased rate backdated to January
    • Agency issues OP with a valid notice and he pays the higher rate in 3 months
    • OP/Agency raises a dispute with RTB who may or may not decide valid notice was issued

    I wouldn't take the first option when option 3 is there, and if I was the agency I wouldn't risk option 3 because it could delay matters for months when option 2 is there.


  • Options
    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    As far as I can see this can only really go 3 ways -
    • OP pays the increased rate backdated to January
    • Agency issues OP with a valid notice and he pays the higher rate in 3 months
    • OP/Agency raises a dispute with RTB who may or may not decide valid notice was issued

    I wouldn't take the first option when option 3 is there, and if I was the agency I wouldn't risk option 3 because it could delay matters for months when option 2 is there.

    This is the way that I'd treat it, from both points of view. Bad form for them to send a letter, then not follow it up. Express post is not fit for purpose in this regard. Registered is the only acceptable method for proof of delivery. Proof of postage means SFA, at least that's what I was told by the RTB.


  • Options
    #26
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This is the way that I'd treat it, from both points of view. Bad form for them to send a letter, then not follow it up. Express post is not fit for purpose in this regard. Registered is the only acceptable method for proof of delivery. Proof of postage means SFA, at least that's what I was told by the RTB.

    Yes, I rang the RTB now and they said similar. I contacted the estate agents to ask about all this and they said they'll get back to me next week (person wasn't there to deal with it).


  • Options
    #27
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This is the way that I'd treat it, from both points of view. Bad form for them to send a letter, then not follow it up. Express post is not fit for purpose in this regard. Registered is the only acceptable method for proof of delivery. Proof of postage means SFA, at least that's what I was told by the RTB.

    Yeah, the agency goofed by not following up to check the letter was received.

    The OP has nothing really to lose by disputing with the RTB so the agency will want to avoid that if possible. Lesson learned for the agency and a few quid saved for the OP.


  • Options
    #28
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Got this now:
    Please be advised that our records state that the Rent increase was sent on the 29th September 2020 via Express Post.



    While we stand over our records, we will also send this Rent Review via email going forward.



    I trust this is agreeable?



    Can you please confirm that this is agreeable with you?



    I await your response



    Kind regards


  • Options
    #29
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Reply back and say that once you receive a valid rent review with the correct notice period you will amend your monthly payment.


  • Options
    #30
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Got this now:

    I guess it's up to you whether it's agreeable or not, according to the RTB website:
    A tenant must be informed of any review to the rent with at least 90 days’ notice in writing of a change in rent (an email or text is not considered appropriate notice of a rent review)

    https://www.rtb.ie/news/new-notices-...m-01-july-2019


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,041 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Got this now:

    Do not agree. They seem to be trying to get you to accept that rent review in talking about going forward.

    Tell them your last review was x date and you will continue to pay the agreed rent set them until a valid rent review is conducted with the statutorily required notice.


Advertisement