What's with women and HR (bloody ridiculous)

Wibbs · 20-08-2016 9:09am

15YemenRoad wrote: »

Irish men are very emotionally stunted.

I feel like women are better at this duplicity.

Glenbhoy · 20-08-2016 9:25am

bee06 wrote: »

I assume you mean maternity leave? Parental leave is for both parents. It's a valid point about maternity leave but that's only the child's first 6ish months. Plenty of child rearing to be done after that and nothing stopping the father from being the primary caregiver if that's what works for the family. I earn more that my husband and I know when (hopefully) we have children he'd like nothing more than to be a house husband and for me to "bring home the bacon".

What is parental leave and in what circumstances can it be shared?

bee06 · 20-08-2016 9:35am

Glenbhoy wrote: »

What is parental leave and in what circumstances can it be shared?

This is parental leave http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

And it's not shared. Each parent is entitled to 18 weeks unpaid leave per child up to the age of 8 (terms and conditions apply of course).

anewme · 20-08-2016 10:44am

Sprint Double wrote: »

How is his "light" relevant? Play the ball, not the man.

His behaviour is very relevant because he seems to have a problem with his behaviour in interviews.

So in this case maybe the man has a problem playing the ball.

jcon1913 · 20-08-2016 10:52am

livedadream wrote: »

sorry, have you actually just tired to claim that the gender pay gap doesnt exist?

are you on drugs?

the European Commission
PWC
JP Morgan

have all done studies proving it exisits.

hold on are you one of those people that believe we didnt land on the moon? that elvis and 2pac are working in McDonalds in Texas and that the grassy knoll shooter was CIA?

simple figures: For the economy as a whole, in 2014, women's gross hourly earnings were on average 16.1 % below those of men in the European Union (EU-28) and 16.5% in the euro area (EA-18). Across Member States, the gender pay gap varied by 25.4 percentage points, ranging from 2.9 % in Slovenia to 28.3 % in Estonia.

like im all for people saying men are better at some things etc etc the usual equal but different. but trying to say something as serious as the gender pay gap doesnt exist is just riduclious...

So why dont busineses just employ women?

jcon1913 · 20-08-2016 10:54am

livedadream wrote: »

no it doesnt women without children do not earn more than men.

i agree that the gonvernment does not encourage equal shar eof childcare but the fact of the matter is women are penalised for reproducing and men are not.

Oh boy selective belief in statistics

Carlos Orange · 20-08-2016 11:31am

Sprint Double wrote: »

How about we treat adults like adults, they can choose between them how domestic responsibilities are shared.

We should be enabling people to make decisions not telling them what to do.
Obviously it only applies to very few people but it is nuts that adoptive leave can only be taken by the mother [except where there is no mother].

cantdecide · 20-08-2016 12:08pm

fits wrote: »

I am saying that both the parenting and childcare duties, and the earning should be more equally shared where people wish to do that.

Agreed.

fits wrote: »

Yes Better support for families. Childcare costs at present are amongst the highest in the world. This is forcing parents (usually women) out of the workforce.

Just to put this conversation fully in context;

What are the reasons your husbands earning power is less than yours?

Will you take a career break when you've had children and what might be your reasons for doing so?

fits · 20-08-2016 1:11pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Agreed.

Just to put this conversation fully in context;

What are the reasons your husbands earning power is less than yours?

Will you take a career break when you've had children and what might be your reasons for doing so?

I am working on a contract/freelance basis. This sector is very precarious at the moment and I have tried and failed to find anything more secure. My plan at present is to return to work next June, five months after my due date. But my current paymaster could decide to just drop me in the meantime as they have absolutely no legal obligation to me. I feel its important for me to get back to work asap even if it has few financial benefits in the shorter term.

cantdecide · 20-08-2016 7:38pm

fits wrote: »

I am working on a contract/freelance basis. This sector is very precarious at the moment and I have tried and failed to find anything more secure. My plan at present is to return to work next June, five months after my due date. But my current paymaster could decide to just drop me in the meantime as they have absolutely no legal obligation to me. I feel its important for me to get back to work asap even if it has few financial benefits in the shorter term.

Would your new circumstances make you consider changing to a career with more dependable prospects?

If your current job prospects improved, would your husband choose to stay at home?

fits · 20-08-2016 8:14pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Would your new circumstances make you consider changing to a career with more dependable prospects?

Not just my new circumstances, its something I have thought about at length.

If your current job prospects improved, would your husband choose to stay at home?

He would consider it yes. We thought about him moving abroad to where I have been working the last few years, but I didnt have guaranteed work long term and he would have had zero job prospects there. So we decided to base ourselves in Ireland where at least we both have some chance of working.

Frank101 · 20-08-2016 8:18pm

anewme wrote: »

To be honest, following a reference here, ive looked up another thread on Op regarding interviews.

It involved putting on a strange deep fake voice during an interview.

When questioned on it the OP said they made up the story.

So on this case also maybe the Op also put on that deep voice at some stage in this interview and that's why the women smiled to themselves or alternatively the op made up this interview situation also in which case the OP may have a phobia about interviews.

That unprofessional to bring my other history into this thread. And this story is the true one.

anewme · 20-08-2016 8:28pm

Frank101 wrote: »

That unprofessional to bring my other history into this thread. And this story is the true one.

It was another poster said about the Good Man thread not me. I just read it and it was most bizarre and involved you having a problem with interviews.

you said that one was true for ages as well so this could be the same.

Why are you going on about an interview that you had "once" ? and linking it to success with women?

dr.fuzzenstein · 20-08-2016 9:19pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

This is your real problem, not HR. Anyone going for an interview should have an answer to this, very commonly asked question ready to go.

Best answer would be "is there anything in particular you would like to know or could you simply not come up with something better than this lame, clichéd question? Is the answer even going to matter to you?"

anewme · 20-08-2016 9:26pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Best answer would be "is there anything in particular you would like to know or could you simply not come up with something better than this lame, clichéd question? Is the answer even going to matter to you?"

That's the best answer to secure the job, without a doubt!

Frank101 · 21-08-2016 3:33am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Best answer would be "is there anything in particular you would like to know or could you simply not come up with something better than this lame, clichéd question? Is the answer even going to matter to you?"

You're dead right. I find it hard to give a question that doesn't sound cliche. I guess I sort of fear that if I keep it simple it'll sound cliche.

But if the question is cliche, then that gives you the right to give a chliche answer.

"I'm a friendly, out going guy who's keen to learn in a working environment"

Frank101 · 21-08-2016 3:36am

Wibbs wrote: »

But if the person was stupid, then they'd need the observe the full gesture in order to realise what's meant.

Wibbs · 21-08-2016 8:25am

The irony…

Calahonda52 · 21-08-2016 12:11pm

15YemenRoad wrote:

The function of HR is to protect the company and minimize risk.

If you go to HR complaining about your depression, dead dog etc. it's better to be able to talk with a woman as Irish men are very emotionally stunted. BUT it's dangerous to assume that HR actually care. They are all about the company bottom line, not employee welfare. I feel like women are better at this duplicity.

I don't think there is any insult of either sex implied here: after 40 years in all sorts of companies, up to board level, across 3 continents, this observation matches my experiences.

mansize · 21-08-2016 12:19pm

Maybe you don't get the job because of
1. Your attitude
2. Your unpreparedness
3. Getting basic things wrong- 90% of women don't work in HR, but 90% of HR personnel may be female - I'd find this distinction very important in computing/programming etc

or conversely

Women, pah!

Christy42 · 21-08-2016 12:33pm

jcon1913 wrote: »

So why dont busineses just employ women?

Businesses are not perfectly logical even if many try to be. Too many people believe that market forces work perfectly.

Same reason they don't hire men without kids over women without kids.

However to answer to op. Improve your interview technique. You got surprised in a preliminary interview by the looks of it. One suggestion would be to start by saying what you are looking for in a position and why that appeals to you. You are in all likelihood joining a team and so your personality is important to the role. I see no issue with that question. It is a bit of a vague question but not every interviewer you get will be perfect.

They aren't looking for you to sweep you off their feet. Just that you can communicate effectively and that you show that you are a good fit for the team in question.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-08-2016 12:58pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Best answer would be "is there anything in particular you would like to know or could you simply not come up with something better than this lame, clich d question? Is the answer even going to matter to you?"

It would only really serve to eliminate the candidates so woefully unprepared for an interview that they hadn't prepared for such a basic question.

If you hadn't prepared for any question in an interview, it's your opportunity to demonstrate your ability to handle unexpected situations. Getting narky with the interviewer is probably not the best decision in any situation.

As posters keep pointing out, this is about the OP's interview technique and he has started a thread where he places the blame on women in HR.

Thelomen Toblackai · 21-08-2016 4:56pm

I had an interview before with two male managers and a girl from HR. I was prepared but still got a bit lost during the "Tell me about yourself" question as I was quite nervous and had to recompose myself. They didn't throw each other glances or make me feel more uncomfortable. The girl from HR actually asked a question about what I was saying to fill the gap and get me back on track.

Tbh those that say the two women in the OP's story were professional and the OP just wasn't prepared I think are being a bit harsh on the OP. To visibly throw a glance at your other interviewer when a flustered candidate is recomposing themselves is not professional by any means.

There's nice people who are good at their job and then there's not so nice people who are not good at their job. I got nice people who made me feel at ease and helped me get things back on track and I actually ended up getting the position where I have been doing very well. You got not so nice people who made you feel more uncomfortable and may very well have removed a good candidate from the running for the position because of it.

Nothing to do with women in HR though.

astrofool · 22-08-2016 6:56am

Our HR interview is a funnel before the technical interview, it's usually there to make sure the person could work in a team, and some basic technical stuff before wasting time with engineers.

However, "tell me about yourself" is a question that must come up somewhere in every interview, I usually do coding questions and software development questions, but I'll still usually start with that just to break the ice and put the candidate at ease.

If you're having trouble with that, then I'd suggest talking to someone in the careers guidance profession for advice on how to handle yourself in an interview situation.

The gender of the interviewer shouldn't even be a concern to the candidate.

dogbert27 · 22-08-2016 7:34am

fits wrote: »

I am working on a contract/freelance basis. This sector is very precarious at the moment and I have tried and failed to find anything more secure. My plan at present is to return to work next June, five months after my due date. But my current paymaster could decide to just drop me in the meantime as they have absolutely no legal obligation to me. I feel its important for me to get back to work asap even if it has few financial benefits in the shorter term.

If you are working contract/freelance (self employed) you are your own paymaster. Or do you mean you are on a temporary contract being paid a salary for fixed period of time?

aphex™ · 22-08-2016 8:57am

I had problems with HR in my last company. They would interview new staff and call them names. This went on with the European Financial Controller. So you would hear them say "Yeah we'll go with the inbetweener" on the phone. You can guess which roles are male in female in that situation, your assumption will be correct.

Quite why either of them watch the inbetweeners on E4 I do not know. One of them looked the spit of Peter Griffin from Family Guy so he should definitely check that out for more adult humour.

A lot of women think they have 'HR skills' but don't actually work in HR. So my previous boss organised a lot of stroppy and over-the-top formal letters after I made a complaint about another staff member. Needless, they didn't stand up in the LRC and they ended up paying me.

SarahMollie · 22-08-2016 9:43am

Wibbs wrote: »

It's hardly a "collapse" Fits. Never mind that we're not informed how those stats are analysed.

I would call a 30+ point swing in my income a collapse. And as for the stats being analysed, lots of posters were happy to run with the stat saying that women earned 17% more earlier on in the thread. Once the impact of having a family comes into play and it changed to women earning 14% less, then all of a sudden the figures are worthy of scrutiny?

Also, as to your point that not all monthers are the same, well yes of course, some are school leavers and some are PhD candidates. But the same is true of men. This doesnt explain how people who have previously earned well suddenly see their earning capacity fall off a cliff once they reach a certain age (which is code for having children.)

Also, there are softer effects of the pervalient sexism in our society. Whether or not you actually intend to have children, employers become wary of you around that age. They often think that as soon as they hire a women in her 30's that she's going to run off on maternity leave and present them with loads of problems. This is particularly accute in the SME sector.

Action does need to be taken to address the impact that motherhood (or even prospective motherhood) has on womens once flourishing careers. If maternity leave became parental leave that either partner could take that might be a start.

Pawwed Rig · 22-08-2016 10:38am

Before family life comes into the equation there is more of an equal playing field so the remuneration is more comparable.
A statistic that showed a comparison in the wages of men and women who never had children would tell alot imo as would a comparison which showed women with no kids v men with kids

Christy42 · 22-08-2016 10:46am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Before family life comes into the equation there is more of an equal playing field so the remuneration is more comparable.
A statistic that showed a comparison in the wages of men and women who never had children would tell alot imo as would a comparison which showed women with no kids v men with kids

Shouldn't we stop it from becoming unequal? I maybe have a slightly odd group of friends but can't think of one that wants to be a housewife (obviously not saying such people don't exist). Also remember that anyone who stays at home when they are able (or has their career path stunted) and willing to work will hurt the economy.

These combined suggest that it is a good idea to see why this happens. Giving both partners the same leave and cheap childcare seem like great ideas to help this (I am also curious about the 17% difference before children but have no idea what would be causing it).

Off topic: what happens to a gay couple who adopt, do they both end up just getting the 2 weeks while a lesbian couple would get 6 months each?

finooola · 22-08-2016 10:55am

Frank101 wrote: »

It's seems women get to be the judge of a lot of things in this life. And with over 90% of women in HR, it's no surprise. You'd have to wonder is their screening process biased.

I remember being interviewed by two women once. One was probably a year younger than me, she seemed so naive and gave me a handshake like a robot. The other probably in her 30s. The first question was 'tell me about yourself?' I, like a lot of people, didn't really know where to start, so at one point I remember stopping myself in order to try and address the question better. A slight moment of dead air, and as I looked across the table, they were both looking at each other with a smile. I didn't make me feel good. I had no choice but to still give 100% effort, just in case, was something that irked me.

You'd have to wonder, is it human nature, for women to be more inclined to choose a man that is more charming or witty during the interview than one that isn't. This job was for a lab technician! What also annoyed me, was that 5 weeks later, when I asked if there was any decision, I was told that they were still deciding (instead of just informing me I hadn't got it). The envelope came about a week later, so late that it interrupted the holiday plans I had.

I'm definitely having no luck with the ladies at the moment, both in bars, and in interviews! And there's likely a correlation between the two!

The flip are you on about? No one likes those style of interview questions. I'm a woman and I dread them. You just (like everyone else in the western world) need to prepare as best you can for competency based interviews while they are the standard, even though you don't like them, and stop being pathetic and blaming women for nonexistent ills.

What's with women and HR (bloody ridiculous)

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