Horizon: Zero Dawn

MilesMorales1 · 20-02-2017 11:33am

Ooh Jim Sterling gave it a glowing review, definitely gonna pick it up now.

Penn · 20-02-2017 11:38am

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Ooh Jim Sterling gave it a glowing review, definitely gonna pick it up now.

Colin Moriarty apparently says it's better than Uncharted 4, and is the best PS4 exclusive yet.

Barlett · 20-02-2017 11:43am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's getting mostly positive reviews other than from sites you should ignore and give every triple A game a good write up. Eurogamer are painting it as another generic open world game and usgamer who sang the game's praises gave it 2.5 out of 5 citing generic open world game play bad story and boring protagonist.

It has a meta critic rating of 89 from 65 reviews, I think we can take it that it's a decent game anyway

Retr0gamer · 20-02-2017 11:58am

Barlett wrote: »

It has a meta critic rating of 89 from 65 reviews, I think we can take it that it's a decent game anyway

I wouldn't trust an awful lot if them but the ones I do trust seem to be mixed. Jim Sterling on particular is a surprise as I would expect him to be ambivalent to this one.

Barlett · 20-02-2017 12:04pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't trust an awful lot if them but the ones I do trust seem to be mixed. Jim Sterling on particular is a surprise as I would expect him to be ambivalent to this one.

Well that's true, sure like everything really you'll have to play it to decide yourself

Cina · 20-02-2017 12:12pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't trust an awful lot if them but the ones I do trust seem to be mixed. Jim Sterling on particular is a surprise as I would expect him to be ambivalent to this one.

Well, I agree that AAA games do usually get 80+ on Metacritic even if they're not that good, but very few get into the high eighties and the ones that usually do are excellent.

87 and above last year:

Uncharted 4
Overwatch
Dishonored 2
Forza 3
Titanfall 2
Battlefield 1
Civ 6
DOOM

I have played and thoroughly enjoyed most of those games, so even if it's an AAA, if it's getting 89 on Metacritic I think that's a pretty damn good sign.

Sieghardt · 20-02-2017 12:18pm

Even most of the positive reviews seem to confirm my fears about the story, script and game design.

Basically if you were hoping for an interesting RPG this is a complete failure, if you just wanted an open world game with robot dinosaurs you're good to go

SeantheMan · 20-02-2017 12:24pm

Sounds very boring.
Even though the reviewer likes the game, he admits there is little to no story...and most of the time is fighting the 24 variants of the machines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZC3tH8PKeo

DeadlyByDesign · 20-02-2017 12:59pm

Does anyone else miss linear games? open world has become the main go to trope over the last 5-6 years. We need more well crafted linear titles like, The Last Of Us, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc. Sorry not meaning to thread hijack here, just popped into my head when reading some of the comments here.

biggebruv · 20-02-2017 1:16pm

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Does anyone else miss linear games? open world has become the main go to trope over the last 5-6 years. We need more well crafted linear titles like, The Last Of Us, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc. Sorry not meaning to thread hijack here, just popped into my head when reading some of the comments here.

yep those are my sort of games that I would 100% replay again and again.

last guardian
evil within
alien isolation
resi7 have scratched that itch aswell thankfully

its just open world games are a chore to replay again IMO it's why I trade everyone of them in when I complete it bar gtav the only open world game I have played twice

RasTa · 20-02-2017 1:25pm

Jim Sterling gave The Last Guardian a 6.5.

He is dead.

DeadlyByDesign · 20-02-2017 1:25pm

biggebruv wrote: »

yep those are my sort of games that I would 100% replay again and again.

last guardian
evil within
alien isolation
resi7 have scratched that itch aswell thankfully

its just open world games are a chore to replay again IMO it's why I trade everyone of them in when I complete it bar gtav the only open world game I have played twice

I think the problem is I just dont have time/patience for open world games any more (Bar Witcher 3 and GTA V). I think that if you were to do a study on it you would see the older the demo graphic, the more like they are to spend time in linear games etc.

DeadlyByDesign · 20-02-2017 1:26pm

RasTa wrote: »

Jim Sterling gave The Last Guardian a 6.5.

He is dead.

He clearly played a different game than I did. Despite the control/camera frustrations it was a terrific game

Retr0gamer · 20-02-2017 1:32pm

RasTa wrote: »

Jim Sterling gave The Last Guardian a 6.5.

He is dead.

On the money imo. It's a game about a boy and his box he uses to climb up ledges he can't reach. The box happens to look like a dog cat thing.

I could have lived with that but the janky play mechanics and framerate really negatively affected the game ad well as just being a very uninteresting puzzle game. He was one of the few brave enough to call it out on it.

RasTa · 20-02-2017 1:37pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

On the money imo. It's a game about a boy and his box he uses to climb up ledges he can't reach. The box happens to look like a dog cat thing.

I could have lived with that but the janky play mechanics and framerate really negatively affected the game ad well as just being a very uninteresting puzzle game. He was one of the few brave enough to call it out on it.

Yet he gives this a 9.5, Watch Dogs 2 a 9 and COD the same score as TLG.

He has jumped the shark and is better ignored these days. Similar to Polygon but at least they do decent features.

Venom · 20-02-2017 1:46pm

RasTa wrote: »

Yet he gives this a 9.5, Watch Dogs 2 a 9 and COD the same score as TLG.

He has jumped the shark and is better ignored these days. Similar to Polygon but at least they do decent features.

As much as I like Jim's videos, as a game reviewer he's pretty inconsistent. He slated Mad Max for repetitive side missions yet praised the cell shaded Transformer game even tho you fought the exact same enemies through two locations types the entire game.

Pickpocket · 20-02-2017 1:50pm

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Does anyone else miss linear games? open world has become the main go to trope over the last 5-6 years. We need more well crafted linear titles like, The Last Of Us, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc. Sorry not meaning to thread hijack here, just popped into my head when reading some of the comments here.

Yep, that had been my mantra for a couple of years. I'd been away from gaming for quite a while and when I came back everything was 'open-world'. They all seemed so scattershot and unwieldy, not to mention the absurd pacing where you take a break from saving the world to collect flowers and pigeons. I just missed the strong, authorial hand of a well-scripted, linear game.

But then I played Bloodborne, The Witcher 3 and Dark Souls 3 in 2016, and I'm currently playing through GTAV and The Phantom Pain. It's going to be hard to go back to strictly linear games. In fact it was hard, because I found A Thief's End a chore to get through (for a number of reasons to be fair), despite its many virtues.

Bloodborne is the perfect middle ground. A semi-open world with an environment and narrative that makes sense whether you blast through it at speed or spend hours and hours exploring every nook and cranny. GTAV also amazes me with how its story ebbs and flows with its open world. The mission structure allows for you to head off shopping or bike riding and yet the narrative never collapses in on itself the way other games do. It makes sense and feels believable.

I also played The Witcher 3 last year. It was an astounding game but it encapsulates the best and worst of an open world. The more you do in the game, the more time you spend seeing everything, the more the pacing destroys itself. That's the nature of open world games, and RPGs in particular, so I don't blame CD Project Red. They created a superb game, so good in fact that it highlighted the absurdity at the heart of that particular design philosophy better than any game that came before it.

I still wouldn't call myself an out and out open world fan. For every one of them that I've beaten there's two or three that I traded in after a few hours. But the very best of them, games like Bloodborne and GTAV, offer something that I now believe a linear game can't match. I used to think that they were odd curiosities, fun little sandboxes to be enjoyed while the serious gaming experiences were to be found elsewhere, usually in older games from 'my era'. But I've come around, dragged kicking and screaming into the 2010s.

Retr0gamer · 20-02-2017 2:07pm

Venom wrote: »

As much as I like Jim's videos, as a game reviewer he's pretty inconsistent. He slated Mad Max for repetitive side missions yet praised the cell shaded Transformer game even tho you fought the exact same enemies through two locations types the entire game.

Well I thought the Transformers game was a blast and Mad Max was one of those boring WB open world games that just relied on awful batman combat.

Also wasn't watchdogs 2 meant to be great?

That's the beauty of good reviewing. It's a personal opinion and not giving a score that everyone else will agree on.

Icyseanfitz · 20-02-2017 2:21pm

jim sterling is generally fairly spot on imo, must wait for acg's review as well. Seems to be getting 80-90% across the board though so something must be good with it

Venom · 20-02-2017 2:22pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I thought the Transformers game was a blast and Mad Max was one of those boring WB open world games that just relied on awful batman combat.

Also wasn't watchdogs 2 meant to be great?

That's the beauty of good reviewing. It's a personal opinion and not giving a score that everyone else will agree on.

I just found that last Transformer game to be very boring and once you got past the comic style graphics the actual gameplay was very samey.

WD2 was a stutterfest on PC when it came to driving.

RasTa · 20-02-2017 2:27pm

WD2 is a boring GTA clone whilst the TLG is one of the greatest games of the past decade.

Never played Transformers nor will I. Anyway back to Horizon chat

Venom · 20-02-2017 2:34pm

RasTa wrote: »

WD2 is a boring GTA clone whilst the TLG is one of the greatest games of the past decade.

Never played Transformers nor will I. Anyway back to Horizon chat

The first couple of Transformer games are well worth playing.

Sephiroth_dude · 20-02-2017 2:46pm

RasTa wrote: »

WD2 is a boring GTA clone whilst the TLG is one of the greatest games of the past decade.

I loved it personally.

Horizon will be day one for me

johnny_ultimate · 20-02-2017 3:02pm

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Does anyone else miss linear games?

I don't necessarily think there's a major lack of linear games (the AAA sphere maybe excepted but blockbusters have never had so much competition elsewhere). But nor do I think one or the other is inherently superior - all down to approach.

The biggest problem I have with many open world games - and the reviews of Horizon do not fill me with optimism that it overcomes that - is the sheer level of repetition involved in many. The 'Ubisoft model' (for lack of a better phrase) favours a small amount of tasks endlessly recycled with minor or even arbitrary changes - a frustrating approach to '#content' above all else, wasting the players' time in the process. It's an approach that prioritises quantity over quality, and makes games frankly miserable bores to play even if there's some good stuff wedged between the repetitive sub-missions. Some games manage the balance better than others - I do think Rockstar excel in the genre they almost certainly created or at least popularised, even when there's plenty of minor variations in there.

It's not for everyone, but The Witness to me is the most engaging open world of recent years. I played it for 50 hours plus and was still discovering new ideas, secrets and depths at that point. It has a design philosophy that prioritises ideas above mere 'content' and it earned every minute I put into it (although somewhere between 5 and 10 hours were spent tackling the final Challenge

). Would love to see a major open world game with that sort of approach.

Ultimately, my gaming time is finite and I'm trying to teach myself to just drop games that don't sink their hooks in or waste my time (FFXV is perilously close to that point after only around 10 hours). I may give Horizon a gander in the future as I do like the sound of its big mech encounters. But I've heard enough to hold off for now, especially when Nintendo (who have always valued ideas more than any other major developer) are planning to finally throw their green Link cap into the open world ring in ten days time!

biggebruv · 20-02-2017 3:29pm

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

I think the problem is I just dont have time/patience for open world games any more (Bar Witcher 3 and GTA V). I think that if you were to do a study on it you would see the older the demo graphic, the more like they are to spend time in linear games etc.

yeah it's just the part were you have to travel to A to start mission intro then travel to B to start actual mission walking/ driving across these open world's to get to this marker is soo boring IMO

bloodborne and Tomb Raider have the right idea IMO the mini open areas in TR are a lot better than a huge ass map with lots of empty land

MGS V was a terrible attempt at this the world was actually completely empty

biggebruv · 20-02-2017 3:35pm

one thing gtav has is all the missions have variety and your doing something different in lots of missions.

bugs me when people moan about the price of a single player linear game but would happily pay for the same crap assassins creed missions in a new skin every single year

ok I'm done but yeah this game looks good looking forward to seeing what it brings to the open world formula anyways

Retr0gamer · 20-02-2017 4:53pm

I'd actually much rather a good well designed linear game than what mostly passes for open world these days. Gta missions might have variety but they pale in comparison to what a well designed linear game can offer. The problem is the developers close off the open world for these missions for fear of some of its randomness getting in and spoiling the story nobody really cares about. Doing the actual missions is no where near as much fun as pissing about the open world.

It's why the only open world games I've truly enjoyed have been Gta 3, crackdown and xenoblade chronicles X. All of those are true sandboxes. GTA3 was before rockstar cared about the open world spilling into its missions. Crackdown left you to your own devices in a massive city and even let you break the game's structure if you felt like it. Xenoblade let you have so much freedom while exploring that often times it felt like you were breaking the game only to be rewarded.

Developers really need to embrace their own open world's they've crafted rather than putting in countless repetitive missions and janky main storyline missions.

Doge · 20-02-2017 6:00pm

Video Game isn't a perfect game shocka!

Pac1Man · 20-02-2017 11:42pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

...must wait for acg's review as well...

There is one irrational reason why I can't stand his reviews. At the beginning of each video he quips:

"If you like the video, HEH maybe subscribe."

You need to hear it to understand. I know it's ridiculous but I just find that incredibly annoying!

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 10:37am

Well I knew the protagonist was called Aloy which is faceplamingly dumb. I didn't realise until the reviews that her mentor is called 'Rost' which is in double facepalm territory. He might as well paint a bullseye on his head. I can see the writer patting themselves on the back for how profound it is. 'It's like alloys are stronger and don't rust dude'

Might just be the worst bit of videogame writing since Halo Reach's 'Noble Team'.

Cina · 21-02-2017 12:13pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I knew the protagonist was called Aloy which is faceplamingly dumb. I didn't realise until the reviews that her mentor is called 'Rost' which is in double facepalm territory. He might as well paint a bullseye on his head. I can see the writer patting themselves on the back for how profound it is. 'It's like alloys are stronger and don't rust dude'

Might just be the worst bit of videogame writing since Halo Reach's 'Noble Team'.

Are you one of those old school gamers who tries to find any beef you possibly can on modern AAA games?

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 12:17pm

Cina wrote: »

Are you one of those old school gamers who tries to find any beef you possibly can on modern AAA games?

Nope. Sure narrative is the least important part of a game like this so if the game is good why does it matter. Just thought that this part of the story was laughably bad and gave me a good chuckle in the same way Hideo Kojima justifying Quiet's attire, or lack thereof, was laughably bad. It gave me a cringe chuckle.

Unless of course you want to defend how it's a brilliant piece of profound symbolism/foreshadowing?

Cina · 21-02-2017 12:29pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Nope. Sure narrative is the least important part of a game like this so if the game is good why does it matter. Just thought that this part of the story was laughably bad and gave me a good chuckle in the same way Hideo Kojima justifying Quiet's attire, or lack thereof, was laughably bad. It gave me a cringe chuckle.

Unless of course you want to defend how it's a brilliant piece of profound symbolism/foreshadowing?

Fair enough, can't say the names made me chuckle, though. As video game names go they seem fairly by the book.

Penn · 21-02-2017 12:31pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Nope. Sure narrative is the least important part of a game like this so if the game is good why does it matter. Just thought that this part of the story was laughably bad and gave me a good chuckle in the same way Hideo Kojima justifying Quiet's attire, or lack thereof, was laughably bad. It gave me a cringe chuckle.

Unless of course you want to defend how it's a brilliant piece of profound symbolism/foreshadowing?

A piece of profound symbolism/foreshadowing that you have no idea whether it's actually part of the game/story or not. It's something you've read into it yourself based on their names and are now attributing to the game and calling the story laughably bad as a result.

I think you're patting yourself on the back just as much as you're accusing the writers of doing.

Sephiroth_dude · 21-02-2017 12:34pm

Surprised too see this is 59 on the store, will probably just get it from the there.

maximoose · 21-02-2017 12:40pm

Yep, and don't forget these cards, make it a little cheaper again.

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 12:44pm

Penn wrote: »

A piece of profound symbolism/foreshadowing that you have no idea whether it's actually part of the game/story or not. It's something you've read into it yourself based on their names and are now attributing to the game and calling the story laughably bad as a result.

I think you're patting yourself on the back just as much as you're accusing the writers of doing.

Maybe. But I'd put a lot of money on it down Paddy Powers if I could.

Anyway see if I'm wrong. I might be making assumptions but they are educated assumptions. I'll more than likely be waiting here with an air of righteous smugness looking for an apology.

I've been wrong before, GoW2's story regarding one of the characters looking for his missing wife seemed laughable but actually delivered but I doubt I will be in this case.

Cina · 21-02-2017 12:46pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Surprised too see this is 59 on the store, will probably just get it from the there.

Physical copy will still be cheaper from amazon with the sterling right now though, around €53-55.

That card discount above looks good though!

Penn · 21-02-2017 1:14pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyway see if I'm wrong. I might be making assumptions but they are educated assumptions. I'll more than likely be waiting here with an air of righteous smugness looking for an apology.

You won't get one because my point will still stand. You said "Just thought that this part of the story was laughably bad" before knowing if it's part of the story or not, based solely on character names (and the meaning you yourself attributed to them) and the possible inclusion of a common trope throughout all of fiction-dom of Mentor Occupational Hazard. That doesn't take an "educated" assumption, and it doesn't make a story "laughably bad" by default if it's done right.

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 1:23pm

The stupid laughable names are really selling your point of view for me.

Penn · 21-02-2017 1:38pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The stupid laughable names are really selling your point of view for me.

In a world overrun by robots and machines, is it so odd that some people's names in small primitive tribes are derivations of terms associated with metal? Either way, what does it matter? There are numerous examples of terrible character names in some of the most popular gaming franchises of all time; Master Chief, Solid Snake, Max Payne, Marshall Law, Claude Speed. Bad names don't make bad games/stories.

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 1:52pm

Penn wrote: »

In a world overrun by robots and machines, is it so odd that some people's names in small primitive tribes are derivations of terms associated with metal? Either way, what does it matter? There are numerous examples of terrible character names in some of the most popular gaming franchises of all time; Master Chief, Solid Snake, Max Payne, Marshall Law, Claude Speed. Bad names don't make bad games/stories.

As someone that spent the night playing Earth Defence Force ('The government doesn't know if these aliens are friendly or aggressive. They've designated them 'Ravagers' for now') it's not going to affect the game much at all.

Bad writing though is bad writing.

Doge · 21-02-2017 1:52pm

Cina wrote: »

Are you one of those old school gamers who tries to find any beef you possibly can on modern AAA games?

No,
Hes one of those old school gamers that tries to find a beef in every single game! :P

I'd hate to have that attitude playing games, constantly analyzing looking for flaws.

I'd rather just chill the **** out and enjoy the good points in a game! :pac:

johnny_ultimate · 21-02-2017 2:55pm

I have no interest in the game's narrative whatsoever, but have no issue with the names. If anything, it suggests a studio aiming for some thematic unity across their storytelling and world building through the recurrent metal references. It makes sense that a primitive tribe would communicate in broad, literal language. It's on-the-nose and a little silly, but keeping with the identity of a game where you're fighting giant metal dinosaurs.

Wonda-Boy · 21-02-2017 4:50pm

Doge wrote: »

No,
Hes one of those old school gamers that tries to find a beef in every single game! :P

In fairness with the state of some so called AAA games over the last few months I too have a glass is so half empty rather then half full. Devs get away with murder nowadays releasing games in a terrible state and just coin it in. So I also do air alot on the side of caution with EVERY major game release I am looking at buying.....

Zero Dawn
GR:Wildlands

I am looking at getting both BUT I have alot more reservations about GR....the open beta this weekend with a new region will dictate if I buy it or not.

Doge · 21-02-2017 6:44pm

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

In fairness with the state of some so called AAA games over the last few months I too have a glass is so half empty rather then half full.

There's having the glass half empty and there's Retr0gamer - always having an empty glass! :pac:

Since the birth of this thread he hasn't had one praise for the game so the bias is obvious.

And this despite Guerilla creating one of the most beautiful environments ever in a game and a great concept.

It's far more beautiful looking than the new Zelda game imo, dare I even say the Zelda game looks dated?

Retr0gamer · 21-02-2017 7:05pm

Doge wrote: »

There's having the glass half empty and there's Retr0gamer - always having an empty glass! :pac:

Since the birth of this thread he hasn't had one praise for the game so the bias is obvious.

And this despite Guerilla creating one of the most beautiful environments ever in a game and a great concept.

It's far more beautiful looking than the new Zelda game imo, dare I even say the Zelda game looks dated?

It was healthy scepticism, especially since the game was coming from a team that had yet to deliver a good game in my opinion.

Dare I say you have seemed to be the opposite and totally caught up in the hype since the beginning of the thread and yet you still haven't played the game?

I've not said anything about the gameplay yet (except for it sounding a bit too much like a generic ubisoft open world design), I've not played it but from the trailers and information about the game, it seems poorly written to me which is what I've been talking about.

Anyway how about people actually attack the arguments rather than the poster?

I might be skeptical but I've seen two Guerrilla games, kill zone 2 and shadow fall, which were just plain bad in single player get lauded with almost unanimous praise based on technical merot despite being bad games. Horizon could be the same but at leaSt looks far more interesting and varied than kill zone ever was.

heebusjeebus · 22-02-2017 9:42am

This isn't the game for me but it looks fantastic. I think Kojima is using the same engine for Death Stranding.

Retr0gamer · 22-02-2017 10:09am

Yep same engine. Digital Foundry were massively impressed with the tech.

Doge · 22-02-2017 10:28am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Dare I say you have seemed to be the opposite and totally caught up in the hype since the beginning of the thread and yet you still haven't played the game?

The hype had nothing to do with it for me, I fell in love with the concept, graphics and environment as soon as I saw the e3 demo live in the early hours the night it was shown.

It just instantly clicked with me, and I knew that if the gameplay shown that night with Aloy and the Thunderjaw would be delivered without a game breakingly poor framerate or bugs I knew Guerilla would be onto a winner in my book.

And from all the gameplay videos released and the all the reviews they clearly accomplished that goal and then some.

I've seen enough now to know that I'll really enjoy the game, the worst that can happen now is that it gets a bit repetitive.
On the other hand, most open world games suffer from this, and all the merits of the game are a big enough motivator for me to play through it more so than the likes of Far Cry 3 which I cant be bothered finishing.

Horizon: Zero Dawn

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