Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

rob316 wrote: »

If Lovren is the only dud from the summer signings and goes on to make little/no contribution in the coming years it will have been a pretty good window last summer looking back.

Well, the money spent on Lallana and Markovic is still looking incredible. 43+m on 2 players who aren't starters. Crazy.

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Did they both not start yesterday ?
Markovic has played 27 times this season and lallana has played 29, wouldnt exactly call them bit part players especially when both have had injuries

Ya but they aren't guaranteed starters.

Markovic has 7 EPL starts
Lallana has 13 EPL starts

For some random reason I saw a lot of West Brom games in the first half of the season when Wisdom was playing regularly. At times he looked very solid and at other times he was poor. At no point did he look to have the quality to play for a Top 4 club within the next few years imho.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lovren was terrible yesterday. The way he was beat by a simple ball over the top for the Elia chance was so very dreadful. Just not aware of what's around him and lacking a natural instinct for danger.

Yeah that was poor alright. I think Skrtel was caught out by the same ball iirc?

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Very harsh to be honest
3 months ago people were slating Markovic, Mingolet and Balotelli
Not saying any 3 are world beaters but peoples perception of their value has definitely improved. Second season the same thing could happen for Lovern. It may not but surely he should be given more than 6 months before write him off completely. And talk of selling him is seriously wide of the mark to say the least, he is going absolutely no where.

A Defender relies much more on basics though. If people are honest, a lot of the time good defenders go unnoticed during a game. At their very best, the likes of Cannavaro or Hierro would go through a game seemingly without doing anything of note. Why? Their reading of the game and positioning was so good that they rarely were stretching for a tackle or a block; opposition players in their vicinity rarely got the ball cheaply into feet and the touches they would make looked "routine". 'Oh, he made a few simple headers and stewarded the ball out over the endline a few times - did nothing'.

As a consequence, we notice two types of games from center halves:

- magnificent displays like Lucio vs Chelsea in 2010 or McGrath vs Italy in 1994;
- dreadful displays like Lovren vs Southampton yesterday;

When a defender has that game where they are blessed by the football Gods, where they just seem to be in the right place at the right time to ward off danger at the last moment; where they make a number of crucial last ditch interventions it's a sight to behold. It probably means their team is being overrun in midfield of course; that they are flying by the seat of their pants for some of it.

But when you're noticing them getting beat on simple through balls; missing tackles; passing poorly; losing aerial challenges - it speaks of an inability to do the simple things right and being lost in terms of the basics they are there to do.

Players like Markovic and Balotelli need to create. They need the ball in good situations; they need players doing purposeful things around them and they need a bit of luck sometimes in having what they're trying to do come off. There are more moving parts involved and there's a higher dependence on getting comfortable with style and system; and gaining confidence.

NukaCola wrote: »

Well, the money spent on Lallana and Markovic is still looking incredible. 43+m on 2 players who aren't starters. Crazy.

£20m is nothing for an attacking player in this day and age.


Markovic was bought purely for potential he already has shown IMO he has a bit about him. Lallana is a solid signing nothing spectacular but he is doing what I thought he would, been a bit unlucky with injuries too.



Why are we cribbing about £20m players not starting every game? We needed squad depth and they are giving it to us.
We sold Suarez to buy a squad its pretty evident that was the goal and to build from there again.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah that was poor alright. I think Skrtel was caught out by the same ball iirc?

Skrtl was in a line with Lovren but the nature of the ball meant that it was Lovren's responsibility to cover. Skrtl couldn't really see Elia from his position and shouldn't be worrying about him with Lovren to his right. You can see that Lovren is slow to turn and only starts galloping backwards after the crowd gets excited at seeing Elia with a chance to get to it. Just so ****ing basic. Was a very similar performance to his Old Trafford effort imo, and that's not good.

rob316 wrote: »

I'm scratching my head as to what made the TC cough up £20m for Lovren.

He was excellent at Southampton - I have no idea what has changed with him.

rob316 wrote: »

£20m is nothing for an attacking player in this day and age.


Markovic was bought purely for potential he already has shown IMO he has a bit about him. Lallana is a solid signing nothing spectacular but he is doing what I thought he would, been a bit unlucky with injuries too.



Why are we cribbing about £20m players not starting every game? We needed squad depth and they are giving it to us.
We sold Suarez to buy a squad its pretty evident that was the goal and to build from there again.

Thats true enough. I'm just a bit disappointed with Lallana i guess. I really expected more from him. He is our 2nd most expensive signing ever.

I suppose we talk about how we need to be smart with transfers and we cant spend big but then throw 45m at 2 average enough players. Sure Markovic might turn into a great player but its still silly money. Maybe its just me.

Dickerty wrote: »

Honestly Lloyd, your previously stated opinion of Lovren means I cannot take those posts seriously. You are acting as if he was terrible, and he wasn't. The ball behind him for Elia was a good one, and remember that he's back for his first start as a back 3, so in normal circumstances he'd have a RB covering there.

He probaably performed as well as Can on Thursday, who made a number of mistakes under no pressure.
And we kept a clean sheet, so he can't have been as bad as you are making out.

Reverse-rose tinted glasses...

Thanks to Mignolet and the ref for that imo.

I don't particularly care whether you take my posts seriously or not. My opinion of what I've seen is that he looks out of his depth for a club with the goals and expectations we hold and I'm starting to wonder just how good he was last year. He would hardly be the first player who benefitted from low expectations at a smaller club causing bad performances to be overlooked.

Dickerty wrote: »

Honestly Lloyd, your previously stated opinion of Lovren means I cannot take those posts seriously. You are acting as if he was terrible, and he wasn't. The ball behind him for Elia was a good one, and remember that he's back for his first start as a back 3, so in normal circumstances he'd have a RB covering there.

He probaably performed as well as Can on Thursday, who made a number of mistakes under no pressure.
And we kept a clean sheet, so he can't have been as bad as you are making out.

Reverse-rose tinted glasses...it is almost as if you WANT him to fail.

I agree with Lloyd. I honestly want him to be great for us, to just snap out of this form, but he was just poor yesterday.

Some of his decision making and positioning was still poor so its not just a confidence thing.

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Ah right lets call a spade a spade here, our entire back 3 made mistakes yesterday. Skrtel and Can jumping stupidy for the same ball should have seen Allen give away a penalty. Can getting skinned in the first 2 mins could have given away a pen. Lovern caught twice at least.
BUT nearly all of Southamptons good work in the first half was down our left not our right. That was Can/Markovic. Also Allen is a significant step below Lucas defensively which contributed to the unease around the team for the first 20 mins. Lovern wasnt great by any means but he did ok and hopefully he can build on this. Its not as if he was at fault for 3 goals and cost us a game here. First game in 2 months and we kept a clean sheet. Ill gladly take it and move on to the next one

My reply is basically already written by rarnes below. Couldn't put it better really.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Lovern wasn't good. He did good things but there was an awful lot of poor play.

I don't want to write the chap off yet though as he hasn't played a whole pile of games since the defence was sorted.

Saying that, I'll be happy enough not to see him play again this season.

Skrtel, Sakho and Can are doing well as a trio. Hopefully it's those three until season end.

Toure played really well when he came in earlier in the season so for me he's first sub

Last week's post, for anyone interested in whats going on.

The table last week:

Chelsea + 9
City + 1.5
Arsenal - 4 (had this as -3 in my post last week, but it was a mistake)
Southampton - 4.5
United - 7 (had this as -5 in my post last week, also a mistake)
Spurs - 7
Liverpool - 10.5

Now:

Chelsea + 7.5
City + 2
Arsenal - 3
Southampton - 6.5
Liverpool - 8.5
Spurs - 8.5
United - 9


The last two weekends have been absolutely huge. Never saw United losing to Swansea, and I know I wrongly had them with an extra two points last week, but I did not foresee them being bottom by today.

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

You realise that Skrtel plays in the centre with Can on the right ? Not the other way around

I hope Lovern comes good and we can push Can into DM as that would be a far more dynamic option than Joe allen

That would be the ideal development but right now Lovren is far more of a liability at the back than Allen is in midfield.

klose wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mr_bundesliga/status/569865867632238593

Serious buiness model they have down there, id say we will sell alberto for tuppence after spending what 6-10 million on him?

The fees Chelsea receive for their players is more than a bit fishy IMO. However proving what's going on in the background is another matter.

Dickerty wrote: »

I never understood the insistance of playing him as a RB, both for us and on loan. He is much more a RCB, good in the air and in the tackle. But not got the pace or guile to be an attacking threat.

If Pulis isn't going to use him, I say we talk to West Brom about bringing him back early. They save the wages, and we get back-up for right of the three CBs, if we need it...

Either that or send him somewhere else on loan that he might be played in centre of defense, agree that he looks better equipped as a centre half than full

mormank wrote: »

I'm being honest and I notice far more than two different types of preformances from defenders. Sahko, for example, has been alot more consistent this past few months without ever reaching the levels of a Cannavaro or a Nesta. If you're assumption above is correct, I simply would not have noticed that. :rolleyes:

Good man.

2015 form table

1: Liverpool DWWWDWW - 17 points

2: Arsenal LWWWLWW - 15 points

3: Chelsea LWWDWWD - 14 points

4: Southampton WWWLWDL - 13 points

5: Tottenham WLWWWLD - 13 points

6: Man City WDLDDWW - 12 points

7: Man Utd DLWWDWL - 11 points

8: Stoke DLWWDLW - 11 points

9: Crystal Palace DWWLWDL - 11 points

10: West Brom DWDLDWD - 10 points

11: Hull WLLLDWW - 10 points

12: Swansea DDLWDLW - 9 points

13: West Ham DDWLDDD - 8 points

14: Everton LDDWDLD - 7 points

15: Burnley DWLLDLD - 6 points

16: Newcastle DLLWDDL - 6 points

17: Sunderland LLLWDLD - 5 points

18: Leicester DWLLLLD - 5 points

19: QPR DLLLLWL - 4 points

20: Aston Villa DLLLLLL - 1 point

If we can hold off Spurs we should finish 4th. Couple of bad home results for united and they can forget about Top 4. Their away form is awful and they show no signs of improving. Arsenal will almost certainly finish 3rd IMO, there remaining fixtures are very kind.