FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 2:52pm

blanch152 wrote: »

How are the retail workers who had their kids minded with grandparents getting on? Ditto gardai, firemen, nurses and doctors?

This idea that somehow there are special issues for the teachers going back to work is not going down well with all of the others who have had to go to work during the pandemic.

I know a nurse who was part-time before the pandemic because she was home for her kids. The hospital needed her full-time so she went full-time and had to make alternative arrangements for her kids. That is the sort of dedication to the job that the teacher unions are struggling to understand.

I also saw a segment on the news last week, again about a nurse, that has a special needs child and her sleep-time is when she comes in from work and he goes to school. How is she going to manage?

How many nurses have complained about the situation they have been put into by a chaotically run health service?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 2:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you gaurantee 100% that noone will catch covid in these schools,when they reopen?

Without this.....it seems your happy to risk others lives and health to fulfil your political prioritys?.

Why can leaving.certs not be taught online.....and do the practical/lab work in march to april as covid gets squeezed out??

I can't 100% guarantee that nobody will catch Covid in a fire station, a garda station, a hospital, a nursing home, a meat factory, a supermarket, a warehouse, etc. etc., yet they are all open.

This isn't about political priorities, this is about the damage that is being done to children by the lack of education in school. That is why France is keeping schools open even though they have a 6 p.m. curfew in place.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 2:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

5000 HCW have caught covid in this wave

FFG response: lets throw teachers and kids with underlying conditions into the.mix and risk their health too

So you think it is ok that doctors and nurses have to do their jobs, but that teachers and SNAs can sit at home?

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 3:03pm

Joespha Madigan having to apologise and correct the Dáil record for her use of the word 'normal' last week goes and puts her size 10's in it again this morning with a nasty ill tempered comparison of the Special Schools issue with the Mother and Baby Homes scandal.
Between her and Foley we are in good hands are we not? Pitting parents against teachers to avoid any responsibility for their own mess. The FG FF government of chaos way.

Fann Linn · 20-01-2021 3:19pm

High community transmission cases appear to be one of the main factors for SNAs etc not returning back to class.
I suppose Govt must take most of the blame for those figures being in the 000s.

Cluedo Monopoly · 20-01-2021 3:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Joespha Madigan having to apologise and correct the Dáil record for her use of the word 'normal' last week goes and puts her size 10's in it again this morning with a nasty ill tempered comparison of the Special Schools issue with the Mother and Baby Homes scandal.
Between her and Foley we are in good hands are we not? Pitting parents against teachers to avoid any responsibility for their own mess. The FG FF government of chaos way.

Both are having a nightmare time. Both out of their depth. Not getting much support from rest of cabinet either but that's a norm for this government.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 3:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The government are trying to take responsibility for the special needs children. Shame on the few teachers who are looking after number one.

The majority of teachers.
What do you think about their claims the government hadn't engaged with them up until very recently? That over the last ten months they've not listened to teachers concerns? Would the way the government pick and choose advice to follow and flip flop so often possibly play a part? Maybe them telling everyone schools would open without talking to unions, teachers or parents? I'd say that's it myself.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 3:39pm

markodaly wrote: »

So why are the Unions dictating public health policy when it comes to the re-opening of schools?
Teachers are good at teaching. They are not qualified health professionals.

Teachers have unions. Unions represent teachers interests.
The government announced schools were opening before speaking with teachers/unions/parents.
How do you feel about the government deciding which health advice to follow and Varadkar lying about it?

James Brown · 20-01-2021 3:42pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It looks like Leo jumped the gun. The minister hadn't got a copy because the deal wasn't finalised even as Leo posted a copy to a nobody really.
Of course it's back in the headlines, it looks incredibly bad and this is a new twist given that everybody on the govt side said the deal was finalised, but it now appears that wasn't the case.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-leaked-gp-contract-while-minister-for-health-was-urgently-seeking-copy-1.4462651?mode=amp

There should be consequences. A person like Varadkar should not be privy to sensitive information. He's dishonest and not trustworthy.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 3:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Yeah, teachers know better than the public health officials?

Micheal and Leo seem to think they do...but that's 'personal responsibility' right?
Maybe the teachers are evoking 'personal responsibility' because they know if they get sick or die MM/LV will cite 'personal responsibility'.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 3:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Joespha Madigan having to apologise and correct the Dáil record for her use of the word 'normal' last week goes and puts her size 10's in it again this morning with a nasty ill tempered comparison of the Special Schools issue with the Mother and Baby Homes scandal.
Between her and Foley we are in good hands are we not? Pitting parents against teachers to avoid any responsibility for their own mess. The FG FF government of chaos way.

She made comparisons between the plight of Mother and baby home survivors and special needs kids to try stick it to the unions. What a disgusting person IMO. Suits the FG party of recent years. I do feel for genuine FG members. Must be like Republican voters dealing with the Trump era.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 3:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed 100s have caught covid in these situations,let you seem determined to ramp up social interactions and increase the risk...to appease ffg.

Deos france also coverup school outbreaks and try force management to stay open,even as covid rampant in its schools??

Are you still spouting the lie that school outbreaks were covered up?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 3:53pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

High community transmission cases appear to be one of the main factors for SNAs etc not returning back to class.
I suppose Govt must take most of the blame for those figures being in the 000s.

Yes, of course, Ministers are running around in the community trying to ensure that as many people as possible contract Covid, hence their responsibility for it.

20-01-2021 4:03pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many nurses have complained about the situation they have been put into by a chaotically run health service?

Not near as many as poor teachers!

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 4:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not near as many as poor teachers!

And issue avoided again by pointing at somebody else. :rolleyes:

Baggly · 20-01-2021 4:09pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

It's well established that the concept of retweeting something is as if you're saying it yourself. So I'm not sure you are making a coherent point here. Maybe try to set out what you're saying in a clear manner?

Mod

Take a week off from this thread. If/when you come back, cut the condescending crap and stop taking pokes at others.

Cluedo Monopoly · 20-01-2021 4:41pm

I am starting to think we will have a general election in late 2021 or early 2022.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 4:47pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I am starting to think we will have a general election in late 2021 or early 2022.

How?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 4:52pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0120/1190897-covid-vaccines/

"The University of Limerick hospital group, which covers six hospitals, has confirmed that over 3,500 healthcare workers have been vaccinated since its programme began on 4 January last.

UHL, Ennis and Nenagh hospitals, the maternity hospital, St. John's Hospital and Croom Orthopaedic Hospital are all in the group."

What happened to the fake news that nurses in Nenagh hospital weren't being vaccinated?

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 4:53pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I am starting to think we will have a general election in late 2021 or early 2022.

Yeah because the coalition are only dying to throw their jobs and pensions into the wind for the craic?

Get a grip.

Mayyyyybe , if the FG election team felt it was time for a power grab, but doubtful they would bother late next year as Tánaiste Varadker will be getting his go again at the wheel. He will be Taoiseach again next year.

Neither Fianna Fáil or the Greens are in any position to do anything about it.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 4:58pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Yeah because the coalition are only dying to throw their jobs and pensions into the wind for the craic?

Get a grip.

Mayyyyybe , if the FG election team felt it was time for a power grab, but doubtful they would bother late next year as Tánaiste Varadker will be getting his go again at the wheel. He will be Taoiseach again next year.

Neither Fianna Fáil or the Greens are in any position to do anything about it.

I am struggling to understand the logic behind the idea that we will have an election within a short period. FG want to be the biggest party, they will sit and wait, they will have the advantage of Leo as Taoiseach in two years time. FF are so far down in the polls that they can't afford an election as they would lose seats. The Greens are in the same position.

The only chance is if there is a policy issue that causes the Greens to walk, but the climate change agenda is wanted by everyone. Even if the Greens did walk, there is a possibility that the government could continue as a minority one with independent support and Green support when it implements the Programme for Government.

Of course there will be crises when manufactured outrage may cause a Minister or two to go or a policy to be changed, but by the time an election is called, the electorate are likely to be weary of the constant whinging and moaning from the opposition parties.

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 5:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am struggling to understand the logic behind the idea that we will have an election within a short period. FG want to be the biggest party, they will sit and wait, they will have the advantage of Leo as Taoiseach in two years time. FF are so far down in the polls that they can't afford an election as they would lose seats. The Greens are in the same position.

The only chance is if there is a policy issue that causes the Greens to walk, but the climate change agenda is wanted by everyone. Even if the Greens did walk, there is a possibility that the government could continue as a minority one with independent support and Green support when it implements the Programme for Government.

Of course there will be crises when manufactured outrage may cause a Minister or two to go or a policy to be changed, but by the time an election is called, the electorate are likely to be weary of the constant whinging and moaning from the opposition parties.

Greens couldn't risk walking, all their seats are borderline and they won't get as many at the next election, certainly Catherine Martin could not risk her seat, Dublin South is the most fickle seat in the country, ask Shane Ross.

McMurphy · 20-01-2021 5:09pm

Dear blanch.

You seem to have missed these posts/refused to comment on them.

Thanks

McMurphy wrote: »

Gavan Reilly is the first journalist I bothered my barney to copy his tweet. Shall I go on?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1351803059781963776?s=19

https://twitter.com/PearseDoherty/status/1351787381398102016?s=19

You don't know the difference at all it seems as neither Reilly nor Doherty made any comment, they just "retweeted" the Irish times tweet.

Is this really the hill you want to perish on blanch?

McMurphy wrote: »

It isn't just a "UK website" blanch its the feckin official British Government website, based on you wilfully and blatantly ignoring the source of the website linked to, I have little interest in discussing or even reading the rest of that assumedly long winded load of shyte that surely follows.

Can you show me where the Irish government have said they've refused to cooperate/share data with the UK government, regarding sharing travel info north-south travel because of GDPR, other than you posting it here and presenting it as fact?

No?

Thought not.

Just to put an end to your complete and utter nonsense, you might find this interesting.

Chancer.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 5:09pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Greens couldn't risk walking, all their seats are borderline and they won't get as many at the next election, certainly Catherine Martin could not risk her seat, Dublin South is the most fickle seat in the country, ask Shane Ross.

Besides they don't have any line they won't cross. Heard nothing from them regarding the report on plastics in Ireland. You would think they'd have an interest. Shown up to be only interested in salaries and pensions IMO.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:22pm

Bowie wrote: »

Besides they don't have any line they won't cross. Heard nothing from them regarding the report on plastics in Ireland. You would think they'd have an interest. Shown up to be only interested in salaries and pensions IMO.

What report on plastics in Ireland?

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 5:22pm

Bowie wrote: »

Besides they don't have any line they won't cross. Heard nothing from them regarding the report on plastics in Ireland. You would think they'd have an interest. Shown up to be only interested in salaries and pensions IMO.

Slightly cynical but I agree overall. Most of the Greens know fine well this could be their chance, if any, to make inroads with their manifesto. They made a hard enough bargain at the coalition's inception, but it may well be that both FG and FF have more elbow room on delivery now since Covid. Time will tell.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:24pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Slightly cynical but I agree overall. Most of the Greens know fine well this could be their chance, if any, to make inroads with their manifesto. They made a hard enough bargain at the coalition's inception, but it may well be that both FG and FF have more elbow room on delivery now since Covid. Time will tell.

The review of the NDP will be key in this regard as to how well the Greens achieve their objectives. Expect more on retrofitting, renewable energy, public transport and cycleways.

smurgen · 20-01-2021 5:36pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Joespha Madigan having to apologise and correct the Dáil record for her use of the word 'normal' last week goes and puts her size 10's in it again this morning with a nasty ill tempered comparison of the Special Schools issue with the Mother and Baby Homes scandal.
Between her and Foley we are in good hands are we not? Pitting parents against teachers to avoid any responsibility for their own mess. The FG FF government of chaos way.

Madigan is a horrible thugish woman.

Cluedo Monopoly · 20-01-2021 5:41pm

blanch152 wrote: »

How?

An election gets called and people vote.

The FFGG marriage is on the rocks. Once we are all Covid free, an elaction might be called.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:42pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

An election gets called and people vote.

The FFG marriage is on the rocks. Once we are all Covid free, an elaction might be called.

Why? I can see no logical path to an election.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 5:43pm

blanch152 wrote: »

What report on plastics in Ireland?

This here from yesterday;

Ireland produces most plastic waste per person in EU
New statistics also show that this country has the fourth-lowest recycling rate of plastics in the European Union

Likely an update on this:

Currently, Ireland is the worst offender in Europe for plastic packaging per capita, O’Brien points out, at 61kg per person per year compared to a European average of 30kg. Ireland’s 61kg is the equivalent of 25 full bath-loads of squashed plastic wrappers.

I guess the Greens had a look at FG's record on this and thought 'they're the right partners for us!'.

Do you not follow Green issues?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its true

Not a lie,i know of school outbreaks in 5 counties,in virtually all the 2nd schools in waterford city and 1 in dungarvan

Did a mid-waterford based student,spread covid to 17 of their class mates at a secondary school,while waiting a test result?

How was it covered up?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:44pm

Bowie wrote: »

This here from yesterday;

Likely an update on this:

I guess the Greens had a look at FG's record on this and thought 'they're the right partners for us!'.

Do you not follow Green issues?

So no report on plastics then? Just a link to two newspaper articles behind paywalls.

Cluedo Monopoly · 20-01-2021 5:45pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Why? I can see no logical path to an election.

Turn on Dail live now. The Greens are taking the rap for the repulsive mother and baby home report. The Greens! They have zero legacy with the homes unlike FFG.

It also looks like the track record of chaos will never end. FF are getting destroyed for picking all the wrong cabinet positions and putting poor candidates into them.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 5:46pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

An election gets called and people vote.

The FFG marriage is on the rocks. Once we are all Covid free, an elaction might be called.

Only if FG think they'll win of course. It's not about the country, it's about winning. All the talk of stability on the last albeit unofficial FF/FG government was shown to be complete guff. As is the way with this partnership. Marriage of convenience. Nothing about serving the public good about it.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:46pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Turn on Dail live now. The Greens are taking the rap for the repulsive mother and baby home report. The Greens! They have zero legacy with the homes unlike FFG.

And how does that lead to a general election?

All that does is make the Greens more likely to think that they should ride it out for the five years and get the work done.

Cluedo Monopoly · 20-01-2021 5:48pm

blanch152 wrote: »

And how does that lead to a general election?

All that does is make the Greens more likely to think that they should ride it out for the five years and get the work done.

We'll see

Ye said the Bailey saga was a non story and it brought down the government.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 5:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Your saying theirs no outbreaks or risk at schools

,govt are saying theres no risk,......why are these outbreaks not notified nightly at the nphet conferences??

Ffg are trying to get people to ignore,what they are seeing with their own eyes happening in their area,for pure and utter polical gain.......

Keep the schools open over summer as the virus will likely be squeezed out by then,forcing schools reopened,with community transmisson rates at level they are is lunacy

Who said there was no outbreaks in schools?

Where there were outbreaks in schools, they were identified, and appropriate action was taken.

There have been outbreaks in hospitals, care homes, garda stations, fire stations, supermarkets, meat factories, and in general, they remain open. Only where there is a public health risk to a particular one, do they close.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 6:03pm

blanch152 wrote: »

So no report on plastics then? Just a link to two newspaper articles behind paywalls.

Certainly was.
Here you go. This is visible.

Ireland produces most plastic waste per person in EU
New statistics also show that this country has the fourth-lowest recycling rate of plastics in the European Union

Ireland is producing the highest volume of plastic waste per person in the EU, while having the fourth worst recycling rate for the material, new European statistics show.

The data, which was released by Eurostat last week, analysed waste generation and recycling rates across 27 EU member states for 2018. Ireland was found to have the highest plastic waste generation at 54 kilos per capita, substantially more than the EU average of 33 kilos per capita.

Did you not look at the linked items? The second one is fully viewable.

Are you actually denying the report exists?

So you don't follow Green issues?
Odd that the Greens didn't pipe up, but they seem comfortable.

RandomViewer · 20-01-2021 6:20pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Greens couldn't risk walking, all their seats are borderline and they won't get as many at the next election, certainly Catherine Martin could not risk her seat, Dublin South is the most fickle seat in the country, ask Shane Ross.

Greens got in on SF transfers, that'll never happen again

Bishop of hope · 20-01-2021 6:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not near as many as poor teachers!

You have a bee in your bonnet about teachers Maryanne.
Theres little logic in a nationwide lockdown with schools drawing together the biggest crowd gathering of any type in communities across the country in the same place at this time.
Surely our nurses and doctors and other frontline workers are hero's. Right down to the lads and lassies keeping our grocery shelves stocked and served and that environment sterile as possible for us to get our needs.
But trying to say that a gathering of pupils together in a building or classroom for hours a day is a safe environment is ridiculous.
If this new variant is as bad as they say then it would surely lead to virilant spread.
Why pick on teachers especially, why not every other closed up business and worker sitting at home?

McMurphy · 20-01-2021 6:33pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Why pick on teachers especially, why not every other closed up business and worker sitting at home?

Because that's the narrative set by govt, and that narrative has now to be stuck by, regardless of how obvious it is that it's complete and utter nonsense.

20-01-2021 6:37pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You have a bee in your bonnet about teachers Maryanne.
Theres little logic in a nationwide lockdown with schools drawing together the biggest crowd gathering of any type in communities across the country in the same place at this time.
Surely our nurses and doctors and other frontline workers are hero's. Right down to the lads and lassies keeping our grocery shelves stocked and served and that environment sterile as possible for us to get our needs.
But trying to say that a gathering of pupils together in a building or classroom for hours a day is a safe environment is ridiculous.
If this new variant is as bad as they say then it would surely lead to virilant spread.
Why pick on teachers especially, why not every other closed up business and worker sitting at home?

Its maddness.....keep them open over summer,if necessary to make back time

By end march/early april....the virus will be under squeeze,between lockdown & vaccinations.....the tide will turn......

rush in and open up again,will just cause another lockdown....i dont think expodential growth can be outrun by vaccine alone

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 6:44pm

Bowie wrote: »

Certainly was.
Here you go. This is visible.

Did you not look at the linked items? The second one is fully viewable.

Are you actually denying the report exists?

So you don't follow Green issues?
Odd that the Greens didn't pipe up, but they seem comfortable.

Both are behind paywalls, the second one is only free if you haven't used up your Irish Times articles for the week.

From the article "The data, which was released by Eurostat last week,", that doesn't mean there is a report. You made a claim, in black and white that there was "the report on plastics in Ireland".

(1) Claim that there was a report on plastics in Ireland
(2) Claim that there was a Eurostat report
(3) Close examination of the newspaper article reveals mention of data release by Eurostat
(4) Still no sign of any report on plastics in Ireland.

You would hardly expect the Greens to comment on a non-existent report or on a routine data dump by Eurostat?

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 6:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its maddness.....keep them open over summer,if necessary to make back time

By end march/early april....the virus will be under squeeze,between lockdown & vaccinations.....the tide will turn......

rush in and open up again,will just cause another lockdown....i dont think expodential growth can be outrun by vaccine alone

The teachers won't go in over summer either.

20-01-2021 7:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its maddness.....keep them open over summer,if necessary to make back time

By end march/early april....the virus will be under squeeze,between lockdown & vaccinations.....the tide will turn......

rush in and open up again,will just cause another lockdown....i dont think expodential growth can be outrun by vaccine alone

Surely to goodness arrangements could be made to reopen schools for young special needs children and Leaving Cert students. It CAN be done. IF there’s a will to do it. Listening to families with autistic children is heartbreaking. There’s plenty in the media about the wrongs done in baby and mother homes. Yet, nothing thought of the plight of the unfortunate families watching their very vulnerable children lose what few skills they have learned.

James Brown · 20-01-2021 7:20pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Both are behind paywalls, the second one is only free if you haven't used up your Irish Times articles for the week.

From the article "The data, which was released by Eurostat last week,", that doesn't mean there is a report. You made a claim, in black and white that there was "the report on plastics in Ireland".

(1) Claim that there was a report on plastics in Ireland
(2) Claim that there was a Eurostat report
(3) Close examination of the newspaper article reveals mention of data release by Eurostat
(4) Still no sign of any report on plastics in Ireland.

You would hardly expect the Greens to comment on a non-existent report or on a routine data dump by Eurostat?

You are playing silly beggars with wordplay.
There was a report on plastics in Ireland. I mentioned it. You hadn't seen it. That's okay. The Greens, whose whole gimmick is the environment didn't comment. I remarked on that.

Hope this helps:

re·port
/rəˈpôrt/

verb

1. give a spoken or written account of something that one has observed, heard, done, or investigated.

You'd be better off ignoring things if you don't want to comment on them. Treat it like you do a direct question posed to you.

Fann Linn · 20-01-2021 7:20pm

Listened earlier to Niall Collins FF saying teachers were selective in picking NPHET health advice to suit their needs.
He was reminded however that this very Govt is also very selective in picking health advice to suit their needs.

People in glass houses....

RandomViewer · 20-01-2021 7:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely to goodness arrangements could be made to reopen schools for young special needs children and Leaving Cert students. It CAN be done. IF there’s a will to do it. Listening to families with autistic children is heartbreaking. There’s plenty in the media about the wrongs done in baby and mother homes. Yet, nothing thought of the plight of the unfortunate families watching their very vulnerable children lose what few skills they have learned.

They'd need to be vaccinated, all staff and students

James Brown · 20-01-2021 7:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely to goodness arrangements could be made to reopen schools for young special needs children and Leaving Cert students. It CAN be done. IF there’s a will to do it. Listening to families with autistic children is heartbreaking. There’s plenty in the media about the wrongs done in baby and mother homes. Yet, nothing thought of the plight of the unfortunate families watching their very vulnerable children lose what few skills they have learned.

Are you comparing the horror born on women by the Church, FF/FG state and it's institutions to teachers not wanting to risk their lives during a pandemic? Shame on you.

FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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