Replacment for Cessna 172

California Dreamer · 16-10-2020 6:05pm

Are we privy or is it ok to ask where the PC-12s are flying to?

FR24 shows lots of flights to Liege for instance. Is that tests?

Psychlops · 16-10-2020 10:16pm

Great new DF podcast speaking to Mr Barcoe, 280 will eventually get the paint scheme of the rest, it was priority to get it & start using it first & that was more important than painting her.

California Dreamer · 22-10-2020 6:56am

Psychlops wrote: »

Great new DF podcast speaking to Mr Barcoe, 280 will eventually get the paint scheme of the rest, it was priority to get it & start using it first & that was more important than painting her.

Very good listen!

California Dreamer · 11-01-2021 9:47am

Was randomly looking at a youtube video the other day of the PC-24.

Would that be a natural replacement for the Learjet when its retirement is due?

Is the flight deck set up the same as the PC-12?

source · 11-01-2021 10:24am

California Dreamer wrote: »

Was randomly looking at a youtube video the other day of the PC-24.

Would that be a natural replacement for the Learjet when its retirement is due?

Is the flight deck set up the same as the PC-12?

That would be a serious drop in capability, 14 pax down to 8 pax and a range reduction from 7,800km to 3,300km (according to Wikipedia).

Peregrine · 11-01-2021 12:10pm

source wrote: »

That would be a serious drop in capability, 14 pax down to 8 pax and a range reduction from 7,800km to 3,300km (according to Wikipedia).

Are you sure you're looking at the Learjet 45? I don't think Learjet has ever made an aircraft with that kind of range or passenger capacity. That sounds like the Gulfstream.

source · 11-01-2021 1:00pm

Peregrine wrote: »

Are you sure you're looking at the Learjet 45? I don't think Learjet has ever made an aircraft with that kind of range or passenger capacity. That sounds like the Gulfstream.

You're right, looking at it again it was the gulfstream IV I was looking at not the Learjet 45 which has similar capacity and range as the PC 24.

Larbre34 · 12-01-2021 3:02am

As of the first outbreak of Covid, when we had repatriation issues and PPE transport issues, Varadkar was making the case for a heavier airlifter, either a tactical military version like a C-130 Hercules or an airliner with modular fitout like the RNZAF 757s.

Thats not the first time it's been mooted, the Air Corps even had a model of an A320 painted in their colours trying to convince the Govt it needed one.

No doubt there are bean counters coming up with a thousand reasons why not to get one and I could come up with a thousands reasons in favour of it, not least of which is there will not be a cheaper time for many year to pick up a barely used airframe for buttons than now, or indeed to secure a very competitive leasing arrangement from someone like Aer Lingus to wet or dry lease a modern jet for State use from their stored inventory.

roundymac · 12-01-2021 12:32pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

As of the first outbreak of Covid, when we had repatriation issues and PPE transport issues, Varadkar was making the case for a heavier airlifter, either a tactical military version like a C-130 Hercules or an airliner with modular fitout like the RNZAF 757s.

Thats not the first time it's been mooted, the Air Corps even had a model of an A320 painted in their colours trying to convince the Govt it needed one.

No doubt there are bean counters coming up with a thousand reasons why not to get one and I could come up with a thousands reasons in favour of it, not least of which is there will not be a cheaper time for many year to pick up a barely used airframe for buttons than now, or indeed to secure a very competitive leasing arrangement from someone like Aer Lingus to wet or dry lease a modern jet for State use from their stored inventory.

It should be pointed out to the"bean counters" that that is all they are,

jonnybigwallet · 12-01-2021 12:37pm

There are some great bargains out there at the moment. A340's and even A380's.

punchdrunk · 13-01-2021 1:24am

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

There are some great bargains out there at the moment. A340's and even A380's.

always with the solid insight Jonny :pac:

roundymac · 13-01-2021 11:48am

Your not even funny any more jonnybigwallet any chance you'd do a Trump on it and fcuk off into the sunset.:(

jonnybigwallet · 13-01-2021 12:13pm

No need to be insulting. I'll report you if you continue in this vein

Manic Moran · 13-01-2021 5:07pm

[Mod]OK guys. Johnny, no need for the pithy comments. Roundy, you can report things, no in thread moderation please.[/Mod]

roadmaster · 13-01-2021 10:52pm

When the guards are replacing there fixed wing i wonder will the government suggest the pc12, it would save on pilot training

donvito99 · 13-01-2021 11:04pm

roadmaster wrote: »

When the guards are replacing there fixed wing i wonder will the government suggest the pc12, it would save on pilot training

A PC12 wouldn't really do what the Defender does - fly around slowly in tight orbits for a long time.

sparky42 · 14-01-2021 12:12am

roadmaster wrote: »

When the guards are replacing there fixed wing i wonder will the government suggest the pc12, it would save on pilot training

I think when the Tender/order went out that was talked about, but the defender is still going.

Larbre34 · 14-01-2021 2:53am

donvito99 wrote: »

A PC12 wouldn't really do what the Defender does - fly around slowly in tight orbits for a long time.

Quite right. But with a proper surveillance suite on board would a new Garda plane need to orbit like a Defender? Surely a combination of a PC-12 Spectre and the helos is comprehensive air support?

To my mind, 4 x PC-12s won't be that busy at the same time anyway, couldn't one of them be tasked to Garda cooperation whenever a fixed wing presence is needed?

roadmaster · 14-01-2021 9:59am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Quite right. But with a proper surveillance suite on board would a new Garda plane need to orbit like a Defender? Surely a combination of a PC-12 Spectre and the helos is comprehensive air support?

To my mind, 4 x PC-12s won't be that busy at the same time anyway, couldn't one of them be tasked to Garda cooperation whenever a fixed wing presence is needed?

Are the 4 planes not out the door as it is. By getting the existing platforms to do the garda work would be no different to EAS and leave the fleet short instead of having extra dedicated aircraft. Imagine if the had kept the dauphins they would have being ideal for EAS. Besides I don't think the guards would want to share there toys but it would still be better to have common state aircraft where possible

roadmaster · 14-01-2021 10:04am

sparky42 wrote: »

I think when the Tender/order went out that was talked about, but the defender is still going.

Is there something about crews not liking to fly the defender?

jonnybigwallet · 14-01-2021 10:41am

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/airbus/french-gov-a340-bargain-sale/

Just to add something to my previous post which refers to potential purchase of a strategic airlifter as proposed by Leo Varadkar.

Manic Moran · 14-01-2021 4:01pm

For GAS purposes, it doesn't have to be a manned aircraft, though I guess I can imagine Irish Civil Liberties folks going ape over the idea.

About as cheap as you can get is what the US has started doing: Mount the sensor suite of a Predator under the wing of a C-172.

It's actually being done for military simulation purposes, it's cheaper to fly than an actual Predator, but it is listed as an option for civil support operations when there is a request for air coverage with a note that when considering the bill to be paid at the end, this is about at the bottom of the scale. C-172 may be a little -too- small, but it goes to show you can mount good optics on almost anything.

Larbre34 · 14-01-2021 7:19pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/airbus/french-gov-a340-bargain-sale/

Just to add something to my previous post which refers to potential purchase of a strategic airlifter as proposed by Leo Varadkar.

Have a day off ffs.

donvito99 · 14-01-2021 7:32pm

A number of UK police forces used Defenders, NPAS now uses four Vulcanair (formerly Partenavia) P68s.

Markcheese · 14-01-2021 7:55pm

I'm assuming you could own and operate quite a few surveillance drones for the same sort money as the garda air unit .. with a remote operator you could have a couple of lads in a control room in baldonnel or somewhere , and fixed wing drones based at airports around the country ,( or even hand launched ) , ( I've no idea how much range a fixed wing has )
Could be a way of getting a lot more air-cover for similar bucks ...

Psychlops · 14-01-2021 8:58pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Imagine if the had kept the dauphins they would have being ideal for EAS.

Dauphin is too small & cumbersome, wouldnt be able to take all the required medical gear either.

roadmaster · 14-01-2021 9:09pm

They are used fairly successful in the northern UK.

Anyway back on topic I see the pc12s on twitter in donegal today delivering vaccines

28-02-2021 7:17pm

Might be a bunch of Herkys going cheap across the water soon, some decent hours left in ‘em. I wonder if we could pick up one or two...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9305589/Death-Hercules-Entire-fleet-transporter-plane-favoured-SAS-grounded.html

Heraldoffreeent · 28-02-2021 7:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Might be a bunch of Herkys going cheap across the water soon, some decent hours left in ‘em. I wonder if we could pick up one or two...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9305589/Death-Hercules-Entire-fleet-transporter-plane-favoured-SAS-grounded.html

Brits seem to be ditching them because of the cost of the next MLU, so you'd need to figure in the cost of that.

Buy 5, one to use and 4 for spares!!

punchdrunk · 28-02-2021 7:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Might be a bunch of Herkys going cheap across the water soon, some decent hours left in ‘em. I wonder if we could pick up one or two...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9305589/Death-Hercules-Entire-fleet-transporter-plane-favoured-SAS-grounded.html

not a hope!

Replacment for Cessna 172

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