Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

byhookorbycrook · 14-08-2020 10:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its the essential.problem with teaching irish....too.much put into learning spelling/reading it,bogged down in tenses/verbs

When it was a main language,vast swades of population couldnt read or write it....its made to be spoken (and spoke quickly,hence why many forgieners struggle with irish language)

I teach in an Irish speaking school. Children who come from homes where there are several languages spoken , be it English / Latvian/Polish/ Nigerian etc. have no problems.
It’s Irish people with hang ups anti Irish that are the biggest issue . Glad to report that a huge proportion of our ex pupils send their children to our school -even if it makes me feel ancient to teach them !

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 14-08-2020 10:33pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

I'll humour you since your knowledge of history is a bit lacking to say the least... The quick answer is because it was suppressed by the various invaders, primarily the Brits.

Viking Invasions (700s to 1169)
- Creation of the cities where no Irish was spoken, only Norse.
Norman Invasion (1169 - )
- Creation of The Pale, English only speaking region around Dublin.
- Statutes of Kilkenny (1367) - banning English / Normans from speaking Irish. Forced the Irish in English areas to speak English only.
Cromwellian Invasion (1649 - 1653)
- Hell or to Connacht - Irish people driven from their lands to Connacht, replaced by English planters who only spoke English. It's said that Cromwell murdered/starved/deported up to 5/6ths of the native Irish population at the time, so that's the vast majority of the Irish speakers wiped out.
Penal Laws (1704)
- Prohibition of Irish people teaching their own children, or having any form of Gaelic schooling.

As for the Brits invading half the world but the natives keeping their language, have you ever heard of the following countries:
- Australia
- New Zealand
- United States
- Canada
What languages do they speak there? I'll give you a hint, it's not a native one.

ax530 · 14-08-2020 10:33pm

If there are they will be under 5. By time children start school will pick up English but I guess with so much TV now most will have English before school.
I remember 30 odd years ago children starting in my school who could only speak Irish.
Apparently children who start Gealscoil without Irish or English have similar level of both end junior infants.

MsStote · 14-08-2020 10:38pm

As an English person who came over in third class, I think the huge issue is the teachers. They refused to teach me, kay fine. However I sat in the classes and watched on as they learnt names for things but nothing actually usable in day to day life. "The chair is red. The window is clear" and silly things. In secondary the literally sat down and said "Okay we predict these will be the questions for the JC/LC so we will learn to answer them". They NEVER taught them how to have a conversation. In fact the oral was taught 5th year and they were terrible at it. Now that is going through 5 different teachers and in the west of Ireland. It was a right shame as I wish I could have learnt. However they hated "the english", as stated by my primary school teachers

There were some gaeltachts up in the mountains around Kerry. Fair few didn't have a lick of English, or they just didn't want to use it? Got lost (prior to internet on the phones and google maps) and no one would help, probably what compounded the dislike for gaeltachts to be fair.

In the modern age no one could be monolingual unless they were near enough off grid. You cannot go online with irish, facebook does not even provide translation of as gaeilge.

snowstorm445 · 14-08-2020 11:46pm

There was a documentary a few years ago where Stephen Nolan and Hector Ó hEochagáin both crossed the border, and there was a clip of Nolan on the Aran Islands trying to talk to a local man who had very little English, although he may have had knowledge of it but preferred to use Irish.

I must say I’ve been working in Brussels for the past while and the weirdness of the Irish situation is very stark in a European setting. The vast majority of countries on this continent speak their own language (barring some multilingual countries like Switzerland), and some of them were under foreign domination for as long as Ireland. I think the only other country where the native language is in a minority is probably Belarus, although it is more robust than Irish in Ireland. The attitude that exists in Ireland about disliking the language because of the education system doesn’t make sense to most Europeans. Language is far more wedded to nationality in Europe, although because we usually like to compare ourselves with other English speaking countries (the Commonwealth + the US) I don’t think Irish matters as much to us in terms of our self-identity.

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 12:41am

MsStote wrote: »

In the modern age no one could be monolingual unless they were near enough off grid. You cannot go online with irish, facebook does not even provide translation of as gaeilge.

Eh, I think you'll find that Facebook has been available in Irish for years now. I've been using it that way for ages. It doesn't have every single phrase translated perfectly, but is often updated with little things like "Fotha nuachta" for News Feed and "Céard atá ar intinn agat?" for What's on your mind?

Google Mail is available in Irish, and the number of Tweets trí mheán na Gaeilge seems to be increasing at a reasonable rate on Twitter.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-08-2020 1:33am

Ficheall wrote: »

The lecturer was Greek, and had come to Ireland initially having learned Irish, so had to learn English when he got here.

I heard about that guy, what a dipsh!t. You might as well turn up in Greece speaking Anatolian.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-08-2020 1:49am

hullaballoo wrote: »

I find this point of view interesting as it's a form of prejudice I will have to deal with in the near future that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for the insight into the rationale behind it.

I think Irish is like religion (or, like a religion for some of the actvist types)

Those who want to speak / practise should be perfectly free to do so

They should not be allowed to force others to learn the language / practise a religion.

A lot of the activist types get very pissed off because people make life choices they don't agree with. That lot can fcuk off into the nearest lake.

Like you I also despise the nationalist undertones associated with the language and politicisation of it.

That really turned me off both Irish and the GAA. Bunch of clerics and impotent red-faced middle-aged men telling everyone else that they weren't Irish enough in their eyes. They can fcuk right off.

I also have a beard like most men.

:eek: :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ

My children will be going to a new Gaelscoil starting in the next couple of weeks and I gather some of the other parents, the teachers and the patrons of the school are native speakers. Could be wrong about that but if they are, I will on the basis of your above post ensure they know I am not a Shinner.

The conundrum will be if they are non-native speakers where it might suit me to let them believe I am a Shinner but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

We sent our kids to the local scout troop for a while. Although it has supposed to have been religiously neutral for close to 30 years now, those in charge were pushing a full-on catholic agenda. Troop on Christmas morning, in the catholic church, "but it's not mass" :rolleyes: yeah right. The local gaelscoils were very over-represented as well. The kids were fine but the gaelscoil parents were wânkers, totally cliquey and wouldn't even talk to the English-language school parents never mind offer lifts etc. So the lot of them can go fûck themselves.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-08-2020 2:07am

riclad wrote: »

I Think all independent schools are over subscribed since its a status symbol to go to a non government school ,like driving a bmw car.

What are you on about. There's only a dozen or less primary schools in the whole country whch are not fully state funded.

Catholc schools are fully state funded
Church of Ireland schools are fully state funded
Muslim schools are fully state funded
Jewish schools are fully state funded
Educate Together schools are fully state funded

The great shame of Ireland in the 21st century is that 96% of schools are controlled by a religion but funded by the state. This in no way reflects the views of the Irish people, but "it's tradition".

MsStote · 15-08-2020 2:08am

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Eh, I think you'll find that Facebook has been available in Irish for years now. I've been using it that way for ages. It doesn't have every single phrase translated perfectly, but is often updated with little things like "Fotha nuachta" for News Feed and "Céard atá ar intinn agat?" for What's on your mind?

Google Mail is available in Irish, and the number of Tweets trí mheán na Gaeilge seems to be increasing at a reasonable rate on Twitter.

Of course google is in Irish they have the best translation service available.
I try to translate irish terms and all it says is "Irish is not supported on facebook". That was only last week lol

Hotblack Desiato · 15-08-2020 2:13am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How did we lose the ability to speak our own language

The city I was born in and still live in was not founded by Gaels.

Were any of our cities founded by Gaels?

If there ever was an Irish-speaking majority here it was gone before the census of over 200 years ago.

So I reject the assertion that Irish was "my own language" that my ancestors forgot, it's up to you to prove it.

Girl from Whitesnake Video · 15-08-2020 2:23am

Beautiful language.

I only speak English unfortunately. Would love to learn more Irish and maybe another language in time.

One thing, you notice when you read translations from English or whatever from other languages is that there are often phrases or words that are not direct translations but are said in another, beautiful or unique way to convey meaning/communicate and that is part of what makes your culture and identity especially communally as a country.

I think it's important to keep that and as a country. Ireland has tried to keep that and personally I would like to see more influence but not to force it. I think that was and is the aim of schools having Irish within the curriculum.

I like the signs in Irish, I even like the little jokes we have about not being fluent in our own language but knowing little bits, all the little appreciations for the language. I like the option to complete a form as gaelige even if I never do because I know I won't be able to understand it but I think it's a choice often not valued, that means more than it appears.

Das Reich · 15-08-2020 2:28am

My question is, anyone who can speak Irish?

Girl from Whitesnake Video · 15-08-2020 3:45am

Das Reich wrote: »

My question is, anyone who can speak Irish?

Are you the op? Obviously there is.

There's a forum on here for Irish speakers aswell isn't there?

15-08-2020 4:29am

But, shur, don't we speak Hiberno English, like. You know what I mean?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 5:47am

snowstorm445 wrote: »

There was a documentary a few years ago where Stephen Nolan and Hector Ó hEochagáin both crossed the border, and there was a clip of Nolan on the Aran Islands trying to talk to a local man who had very little English, although he may have had knowledge of it but preferred to use Irish.

I must say I’ve been working in Brussels for the past while and the weirdness of the Irish situation is very stark in a European setting. The vast majority of countries on this continent speak their own language (barring some multilingual countries like Switzerland), and some of them were under foreign domination for as long as Ireland. I think the only other country where the native language is in a minority is probably Belarus, although it is more robust than Irish in Ireland. The attitude that exists in Ireland about disliking the language because of the education system doesn’t make sense to most Europeans. Language is far more wedded to nationality in Europe, although because we usually like to compare ourselves with other English speaking countries (the Commonwealth + the US) I don’t think Irish matters as much to us in terms of our self-identity.

And why should it really when you think about it...??

The fact that most of us don't speak it, and yet we have a very vibrant and rich culture... this is proof that the two things are not intrinsically linked together as some people would have you believe.

The arrogant people over in the west, not only seem to want credit for keeping a dying language alive (at huge expense to the taxpayer btw - which could be spent on much better things), but it seems they also think they are the gatekeepers to our history and culture too... :rolleyes:

Well sorry guys... but no you are not. Or culture and identity as Irish people is not dependent on the survival of our ancient old language. That's just a fairytale you tell yourselves, so you can feel important when you're speaking it among yourselves...

Penfailed · 15-08-2020 10:05am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If iceland can have a modern functioning econmy and a native language,no reason,we cant

They didn't try to eradicate the language in Iceland. Iceland didn't have a famine either.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Irish_language

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 15-08-2020 10:06am

Das Reich wrote: »

My question is, anyone who can speak Irish?

That’s not proper English.

Penfailed · 15-08-2020 10:12am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The city I was born in and still live in was not founded by Gaels.

Were any of our cities founded by Gaels?

If there ever was an Irish-speaking majority here it was gone before the census of over 200 years ago.

So I reject the assertion that Irish was "my own language" that my ancestors forgot, it's up to you to prove it.

Eh? You want proof that Irish was your own language?! What is there to prove?

Edgware · 15-08-2020 10:17am

khalessi wrote: »

I'm someone who always loved Irish but had crap teachers, bar one and he was fluent and he did all he could to help me become fluent. When I wanted to try honours Irish after a pass Inter he got me into the honours class. When the teacher teaching that class got me kicked out, himself and his wife gave me grinds. I stayed with pass Irish for the leaving so he could teach me as he truly loved the language and made it fun.

When I decided to become a teacher I went to as many Irish social nights I could find and did loads of courses and spent loads of time in Donegal and Connemara.

One thing I decided to do when learning, was to spend a day in Dublin speaking Irish in shops cafes etc. It was great fun as people did a double take and then replied to me in hesitant Irish. Everyone I spoke to, answered me in Irish, it was a lovely surprise as the only other place I have heard Irish used naturally was around Galway city. I came across an African taxi driver who actually started talking in Irish to me and he told me his kids went to a gaelscoil.

There are something like 4 million people learning Irish around the world, amazing! My kids go to a gaelscoil and there are loads of children from other countries. One of my kids needs learning support and they aren't the only kids with special needs in the school, so whoever said that people send their kids to gaelscoils to avoid foreigners and special needs were talking out their posterior. The classes in junior infants also had 32 children so it wasnt for smaller classes either. I love the fact my kids are fluent and can chat away in Irish and it will make it easier for them in secondary to learn another language.

It is amazing the amount of Irish that is in peoples heads but they havent the confidence or environment to get it out. Even older men that I met in England who left school in early teens would often come out with a few words. It might be a basic "tabhair dom" or " rinne me" but the seed is there.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 10:47am

Edgware wrote: »

It is amazing the amount of Irish that is in peoples heads but they havent the confidence or environment to get it out. Even older men that I met in England who left school in early teens would often come out with a few words. It might be a basic "tabhair dom" or " rinne me" but the seed is there.

Plenty of people still knocking around that have a bit of latin in their heads too... about as much use or relevance to them as Irish tbh!

hullaballoo · 15-08-2020 12:02pm

Uh oh the silent majority is here.

Irish is a long way off a dead language or one being kept alive by pockets of people in the west as you'd like to think. Like any language it has a lot to teach us about culture and history. No it's not the only way you can learn Irish history but a knowledge of Irish is a great way to broaden your understanding of the history of the island.

Just like any language really.

castletownman · 15-08-2020 12:06pm

The thing that annoys me is having the station names etc. In Irish on the Luas (well in conjuction with the English names). I mean, if we went to South Africa or somewhere with multiple languages (with more native speakers than Irish) and they had train stations in Zulu or one of them instead of the widely spoken English, we'd be up in arms.

Surely there'd be more foreign tourists that barely speak English but at least are familiar with it that use the Luas on a weekly basis than fellas from the Gaeltacht regions that soloely speak Irish?

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 12:14pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

The arrogant people over in the west, not only seem to want credit for keeping a dying language alive (at huge expense to the taxpayer btw - which could be spent on much better things), but it seems they also think they are the gatekeepers to our history and culture too... :rolleyes:

Well sorry guys... but no you are not. Or culture and identity as Irish people is not dependent on the survival of our ancient old language. That's just a fairytale you tell yourselves, so you can feel important when you're speaking it among yourselves...

I don't think you really believe this argument, but it's worth addressing anyway.

There shouldn't be an "Us versus them" feeling when it comes to Irish. The only thing that all Irish speakers have in common is the language itself. They're not all arrogant, or self-important, or cultural experts. They live day to day like anyone in Dublin or Tullamore or Limerick City (or any other location that isn't renowned for widespread use of Irish).

They're part of every circle of Irish society, whether it's the GAA or the hip hop scene, rugby or drama, fashion or blogging or music or makeup, politics, civil rights, pubs, supermarkets, poetry, painting, surfing or posting on the Internet.

Are there some arrogant people in academia and other cultural quarters? Yeah, probably, but that's true of any language. Nobody would stop enjoying the paintings of Van Gogh just because of a bad experience with one guide in a gallery. Why give up on a thousand years of awesome poetry, song, story, dance, sport, jokes, music, satire, history, heritage, craic and conversation because of a rare bad experience with a snob?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 12:37pm

If there are such people I would say they would keep it under their hat. As it would usually mean they didn't go to school. And that they don't leave their town much or speak to people from outside.

It would mean they don't watch the BBC or American movies. But they only watch TG4.

So the chances of someone like that existing are NIL.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 12:48pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Are there some arrogant people in academia and other cultural quarters? Yeah, probably, but that's true of any language.

No its only true of languages like latin etc or minority languages.

In fact some people with degrees in german etc ...can't string a sentence together after a few years. But they meet native speakers or actual speakers more often and so they can't get away with being pretentious.

Do you know they invented simultaneous translation for the Nuremberg trials? Well they did. And they tried to use people from acedemia ...most of them couldn't do it.

They had to use mostly people who were bilingual from childhood.

Even today in the UN or interpreting for the EU they don't care what degree you have. They can't afford to. They only care how well you speak the language.

I think its why Scandinavians at so good. They don't care about the certificate or the degree. Their country is very egalitarian. Yes they are educated but its not 'oh i have this degree ' when you are interviewed. Its can you actually do this and at what level?

They focus on actual skills rather than pieces of paper. I.E like the leaving cert.

If irish people focused on actual skills in irish rather than meaningless pieces of paper ...it might be diff.

Also they need more money for resources ...books films etc. And they need to ask people to make youtube channels etc.

charlesanto · 15-08-2020 12:52pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

....
who wanted to dish out a dose of boring nationalism using their UCD/Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. .

Love it !

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 1:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No its only true of languages like latin etc or minority languages.

Arrogance is only associated with minority languages?

Pull the other one.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 1:18pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Arrogance is only associated with minority languages? Pull the other one.

You pull the other one.

Unless you are talking about people who are obviously fakes like benny lewis etc.

Anyone with a second language even at PHD level is constantly humbled everyday from listening to native speakers being corrected by native speakers. Seeing their maleable way of speaking.

I heard an American professor who was paid to translate Russian into english who had a degree in Russian say 'I was never very good at that language'.

Someone with an Irish degree ...is bound to be best out of a bad lot. In fact someone with any level of spoken Irish is bound to be best out of a bad lot. Big fish in a small pond syndrome.

Throw someone in france in a debating society ....they figure out what they don't know fast.

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 1:20pm

Kylee Skinny Ranch wrote: »

I'll humour you since your knowledge of history is a bit lacking to say the least... The quick answer is because it was suppressed by the various invaders, primarily the Brits.

Viking Invasions (700s to 1169)
- Creation of the cities where no Irish was spoken, only Norse.
Norman Invasion (1169 - )
- Creation of The Pale, English only speaking region around Dublin.
- Statutes of Kilkenny (1367) - banning English / Normans from speaking Irish. Forced the Irish in English areas to speak English only.
Cromwellian Invasion (1649 - 1653)
- Hell or to Connacht - Irish people driven from their lands to Connacht, replaced by English planters who only spoke English. It's said that Cromwell murdered/starved/deported up to 5/6ths of the native Irish population at the time, so that's the vast majority of the Irish speakers wiped out.
Penal Laws (1704)
- Prohibition of Irish people teaching their own children, or having any form of Gaelic schooling.

As for the Brits invading half the world but the natives keeping their language, have you ever heard of the following countries:
- Australia
- New Zealand
- United States
- Canada
What languages do they speak there? I'll give you a hint, it's not a native one.

I do enjoy when people lecture other people about not knowing history and then spout a load of nonsense which shows they don't really know their history themselves.

For example - the 'Normans' who arrived with Strongbow came from Wales not England. They did not speak English. They spoke French and Welsh.
The Statues of Kilkenny may have made it illegal to speak Irish in Norman controlled areas (not the whole country, under the Treaty of Windsor 1175 more than half the island was officially still Gaelic Irish) but it was also written in French as so few spoke English. French, Irish, and Latin were the main languages.

The first person to come up with a royally approved plan to destroy the Irish language - as part of utterly destroying Gaelic culture - was Sir John Perrott as part of his pitch to Elizabeth I to be made Lord Deputy.

Cromwell was in Ireland for the grand total of 9 months - much of which he spent seriously ill. His issue was not with the Irish - his issue was with Catholic/Royalist support for the Stuart monarchy. Repressive tactics were carried out by Henry Ireton and were based on the policies of the Tudors - as anyone who knows the actual history of the period rather than the 'To Hell or to Connacht" of popular belief.

These 'Brits' you blame for it all didn't even exist until the Stuart period - how are they to blame for the Norse/Normans?

To answer the OP I know people whose first language is Irish, and although they do speak English they sometimes struggle as it is not a language they would use everyday.

Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

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