Course Rankings by Slope Rating

prawnsambo · 12-10-2020 11:28am

paulos53 wrote: »

Blue and White tees in Castlemartyr are both par 72. Ladies par is 73

Out of curiosity do any courses in Ireland have different pars for different men's tees? That USGA course lookup site has a few listed but I assume they are all incorrect?

That's where the par of 73 for the blue tees at Castlemartyr came from. I have a scorecard which lists them at 72, but it's possible that the rating system has changed the par on one hole. The 18th is a par 4 for men and par 5 for women, but the length off the blues is the same as the length of the par 5 4th off the whites at 473 yards.

prawnsambo · 12-10-2020 11:39am

BrandNewMedium wrote: »

Definitely something not quite right there, when you see Portmarnock Links supposedly easier.

How will inter clubs work now? Since an 8 in one club could be 10/11 in another, who will make the cut for teams? If you look at the slopes above, an 8 in The Heritage would be a 4/5 in Tullamore, supposedly

If you look up Portmarnock, you get a dizzying array of courses and tee combinations. There are three courses listed - Blue, Yellow and Red. Click into one of those and you get a list as long as your arm. For example, here's what you get when you select Portmarnock - Blue:

Tee Name|Par|CR|SR
Blue - Red/Blue|72|77.1|146
Blue|72|76.2|142
Blue - Yellow/Blue|73|75.2|141
White - Red/Blue|72|74.6|138
White|72|73.8|135
Green - Red/Blue|72|73.6|135
White - Yellow/Blue|73|73.6|133
Green|72|73.0|132
Green - Yellow/Blue|73|72.6|129
Yellow|72|69.8|121
Yellow - Red/Blue|72|69.6|125
Yellow - Yellow/Blue|72|69.6|120

All men's tees obviously :rolleyes:

BrandNewMedium · 15-10-2020 3:59pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Do let me know how you both get on in Moate. It's not a soft touch. How have you scored there recently?

Not well in either

Fully agree with you, both are tough courses for different reasons, but I would say PL is generally the harder of those two.

So the slopes surprise me, the same with a good few of the slope ratings here do. There are other weird ones that stand out to me, St Margarets sloped at 136 feels high relative to a lot of the others.

On further inspection, the table here compares the Moate blue tees slope to some other clubs white tee slopes, might be worth updating?

BrandNewMedium · 15-10-2020 4:04pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Moate is only 72.8 Portmarnock Links is 75.2?

That's course rating, the slopes don't reflect that.

BrandNewMedium · 15-10-2020 4:08pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you look up Portmarnock, you get a dizzying array of courses and tee combinations. There are three courses listed - Blue, Yellow and Red. Click into one of those and you get a list as long as your arm. For example, here's what you get when you select Portmarnock - Blue:

Tee Name|Par|CR|SR
Blue - Red/Blue|72|77.1|146
Blue|72|76.2|142
Blue - Yellow/Blue|73|75.2|141
White - Red/Blue|72|74.6|138
White|72|73.8|135
Green - Red/Blue|72|73.6|135
White - Yellow/Blue|73|73.6|133
Green|72|73.0|132
Green - Yellow/Blue|73|72.6|129
Yellow|72|69.8|121
Yellow - Red/Blue|72|69.6|125
Yellow - Yellow/Blue|72|69.6|120

All men's tees obviously :rolleyes:

That's Portmarnock Golf Club rather than the Links, but I take your point, if the wind blows out there then none of those slopes is accurate

dan_ep82 · 27-10-2020 2:38pm

Headfort New White Tee

Par 72 Rating 73.6 Slope 133

newport2 · 02-11-2020 10:36am

Added Powerscourt East and West

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Mount Juliet|142|72|75.6
Dun Laoghaire|138|72|75.5
Corrstown|137|72|73.5
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
St Margarets|136|73|73.9
Fermoy|136|70|70.8
Beaverstown|136|72|72.4
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Moate|135|72|72.8
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|72|73
Powerscourt East|134|72|74.3
Powerscourt West|134|72|74.2
Birr|134|70|72.3
Portmarnock Links|132|71|75.2
The Island|132|72|75
Douglas|132|72|72.9
Fota Island|131|71|73.5
Youghal|131|71|72.1
Seapoint|129|72|75.1
Castlewarden|129|72|72.9
Tullamore|129|71|71.9
Craddockstown|128|72|72.4
Stackstown Gate|128|72|71.8
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Tuam|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Athlone|126|72|72.2
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Stackstown Cottage|125|71|70
Foxrock|122|70|70.4
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Corballis|112|66|65.5
Mulranny|112|71|69.7

Euphoriasean · 02-11-2020 2:25pm

Updated Limerick and Mayo

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Mount Juliet|142|72|75.6
Dun Laoghaire|138|72|75.5
Adare|137|72|75.6
Corrstown|137|72|73.5
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
St Margarets|136|73|73.9
Fermoy|136|70|70.8
Beaverstown|136|72|72.4
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Moate|135|72|72.8
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|72|73
Powerscourt East|134|72|74.3
Powerscourt West|134|72|74.2
Birr|134|70|72.3
Claremorris|133|73|72.5
Portmarnock Links|132|71|75.2
The Island|132|72|75
Westport|132|73|74.3
Douglas|132|72|72.9
Fota Island|131|71|73.5
Castletroy|131|72|72.8
Youghal|131|71|72.1
Ballyneety|131|70|70.3
Seapoint|129|72|75.1
Castlewarden|129|72|72.9
Tullamore|129|71|71.9
Craddockstown|128|72|72.4
Stackstown Gate|128|72|71.8
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Tuam|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Athlone|126|72|72.2
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Ballinrobe|125|73|73.1
Limerick|125|72|72.1
Stackstown Cottage|125|71|70
Belmullet(Hackett)|124|72|72.6
Belmullet(Wild Atlantic Dunes)|124|72|72.4
Adare Manor|124|69|68.9
Swinford|124|70|67.6
Newcastlewest|123|71|71.2
Foxrock|122|70|70.4
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Ballyhaunis|122|70|69.2
Rathbane|121|70|69.9
Ballina|119|71|69.4
Corballis|112|66|65.5
Mulranny|112|71|69.7
Achill|95|70|67.4

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 2:49pm

Added back in the ones I added earlier and were then left out again.

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Mount Juliet|142|72|75.6
Dun Laoghaire|138|72|75.5
Adare|137|72|75.6
Corrstown|137|72|73.5
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
St Margarets|136|73|73.9
Fermoy|136|70|70.8
Macreddin|135|72|75.0
Beaverstown|136|72|72.4
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Moate|135|72|72.8
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|72|73
Powerscourt East|134|72|74.3
Powerscourt West|134|72|74.2
Birr|134|70|72.3
Claremorris|133|73|72.5
Portmarnock Links|132|71|75.2
The Island|132|72|75
Westport|132|73|74.3
Douglas|132|72|72.9
Castlemartyr|131|73|73.3
Fota Island|131|71|73.5
Castletroy|131|72|72.8
Youghal|131|71|72.1
Ballyneety|131|70|70.3
Seapoint|129|72|75.1
Castlewarden|129|72|72.9
Tullamore|129|71|71.9
Craddockstown|128|72|72.4
Stackstown Gate|128|72|71.8
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Tuam|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Athlone|126|72|72.2
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Ballinrobe|125|73|73.1
Limerick|125|72|72.1
Stackstown Cottage|125|71|70
Belmullet(Hackett)|124|72|72.6
Belmullet(Wild Atlantic Dunes)|124|72|72.4
Adare Manor|124|69|68.9
Swinford|124|70|67.6
Newcastlewest|123|71|71.2
Foxrock|122|70|70.4
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Ballyhaunis|122|70|69.2
Rathbane|121|70|69.9
Ballina|119|71|69.4
Corballis|112|66|65.5
Mulranny|112|71|69.7
Achill|95|70|67.4

Johnny_Fontane · 03-11-2020 2:19pm

Did inspectors visit each course in relation to the slope rating? Looking at the list most are bundled together and no way that they should be bundled together.

Wichita Lineman · 03-11-2020 2:26pm

Every course had an inspection at some stage over the past few years since it was known that this WHS was on the way and slope ratings would be required.

Johnny_Fontane · 03-11-2020 2:27pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Every course had an inspection at some stage over the past few years since it was known that this WHS was on the way and slope ratings would be required.

Is it a scientific method? I presume they look at the scoring in competitions as a guide?

prawnsambo · 03-11-2020 2:52pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Is it a scientific method? I presume they look at the scoring in competitions as a guide?

They also play the course and have a pretty big questionnaire covering everything from grass cut heights to widths of fairways. They also measured hole lengths from permanent markers and looked at other factors like positions of hazards, bunkers etc.

Seve OB · 03-11-2020 2:55pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

They also play the course and have a pretty big questionnaire covering everything from grass cut heights to widths of fairways. They also measured hole lengths from permanent markers and looked at other factors like positions of hazards, bunkers etc.

they don't necessarily play the course

prawnsambo · 03-11-2020 3:03pm

Seve OB wrote: »

they don't necessarily play the course

I'm basing that on our visit and a proposed visit to rate our yellows for women as well. That had to be postponed due to lockdowns.

Johnny_Fontane · 03-11-2020 3:12pm

But at some stage do actual recorded scores by members play a part in the slope rating?

prawnsambo · 03-11-2020 3:17pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

But at some stage do actual recorded scores by members play a part in the slope rating?

Probably. They say not to put them on your scorecards because they will be under review.

NotCarrotRidge · 03-11-2020 3:58pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Added back in the ones I added earlier and were then left out again.

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Mount Juliet|142|72|75.6
Dun Laoghaire|138|72|75.5
Adare|137|72|75.6
Corrstown|137|72|73.5
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
St Margarets|136|73|73.9
Fermoy|136|70|70.8
Macreddin|135|72|75.0
Beaverstown|136|72|72.4
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Moate|135|72|72.8
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|72|73
Powerscourt East|134|72|74.3
Powerscourt West|134|72|74.2
Birr|134|70|72.3
Claremorris|133|73|72.5
Portmarnock Links|132|71|75.2
The Island|132|72|75
Westport|132|73|74.3
Douglas|132|72|72.9
Castlemartyr|131|73|73.3
Fota Island|131|71|73.5
Castletroy|131|72|72.8
Youghal|131|71|72.1
Ballyneety|131|70|70.3
Kilkenny|131|71|71.7
Seapoint|129|72|75.1
Castlewarden|129|72|72.9
Tullamore|129|71|71.9
Craddockstown|128|72|72.4
Stackstown Gate|128|72|71.8
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Tuam|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Athlone|126|72|72.2
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Ballinrobe|125|73|73.1
Limerick|125|72|72.1
Stackstown Cottage|125|71|70
Belmullet(Hackett)|124|72|72.6
Belmullet(Wild Atlantic Dunes)|124|72|72.4
Adare Manor|124|69|68.9
Swinford|124|70|67.6
Newcastlewest|123|71|71.2
Foxrock|122|70|70.4
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Ballyhaunis|122|70|69.2
Rathbane|121|70|69.9
Ballina|119|71|69.4
Corballis|112|66|65.5
Mulranny|112|71|69.7
Achill|95|70|67.4

Added in Kilkenny. Still shaking my head at it. Seems very high.

IAmTitleist · 03-11-2020 4:53pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Did inspectors visit each course in relation to the slope rating? Looking at the list most are bundled together and no way that they should be bundled together.

Wondered this myself.

Looking at the slope ratings my course has a slope of 112. While nearby courses which i'm absolutely sure 99% of local people would agree are easier have a higher slope.

gapthunt · 03-11-2020 5:17pm

Slope Rating®
An indication of the relative difficulty of a golf course for players who are not scratch players compared to players who are scratch players. The lowest Slope Rating is 55 and the highest is 155.

Seve OB · 03-11-2020 6:22pm

would love to know where the courses with low slope ratings are

corballis is lowest i think ive seen, think 114

prawnsambo · 03-11-2020 6:27pm

Seve OB wrote: »

would love to know where the courses with low slope ratings are

corballis is lowest i think ive seen, think 114

Corballis is actually 112 from the Blues and 108 from the whites. I was gobsmacked to see Leopardstown at 124. :eek:

prawnsambo · 03-11-2020 6:34pm

Achill should be added to the list

Achill Golf Club|70|67.4|95

It's actually harder for the women - rated at 106.

gypsy79 · 03-11-2020 6:34pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Corballis is actually 112 from the Blues and 108 from the whites. I was gobsmacked to see Leopardstown at 124. :eek:

Corballis is wrong full stop. Imagine their teams next year

Leopardstown is ladies so need be comapared to Corballis ladies where you need to take into account that the rating is 1.6 lower than par in Leopardstown and Corballis is 0.1 shots higher than par

So a 1.7 swing there

That gets into the issue of whether the handicap should include rating adjustment

Tescosfinest · 03-11-2020 7:23pm

Surprised to see Corrstown at 137, very straightforward I thought

copacetic · 03-11-2020 7:32pm

Tescosfinest wrote: »

Surprised to see Corrstown at 137, very straightforward I thought

That’s off the blues for meadow/orchard and they add a lot of length, so would make it much more difficult for a bogey golfer compared to scratch. In a medal off blues a lot of bogey golfers can’t get on about 1/2 the par 4s in 2. 134 off the whites is probably a little high though.

DuckSlice · 04-11-2020 12:49pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Achill should be added to the list

Achill Golf Club|70|67.4|95

It's actually harder for the women - rated at 106.

It has to be the easiest in Ireland I would think. It’s a practically flat piece of land with greens. About 6/7 bunkers, that’s about it. The out of bounds are only in play on a couple of holes.

It does have one of the hardest shots into a green I have ever played though. Green slopes to the right and anything that catches the slope has about 2/3 feet of fringe to stop or it’s gone in the river. Wind is usually off the left too which makes it even harder.

slingerz · 05-11-2020 6:19pm

Lee Valley - Slope 143 - Par 72 - Course Rating 73.5

kieran. · 05-11-2020 11:16pm

Seve OB wrote: »

would love to know where the courses with low slope ratings are

corballis is lowest i think ive seen, think 114

Buncrana Golf Club | Par 66 | Course rating 63.2 | Slope 104

willabur · 06-11-2020 2:24pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Corballis is wrong full stop. Imagine their teams next year

Leopardstown is ladies so need be comapared to Corballis ladies where you need to take into account that the rating is 1.6 lower than par in Leopardstown and Corballis is 0.1 shots higher than par

So a 1.7 swing there

That gets into the issue of whether the handicap should include rating adjustment

There are no Corballis ladies - not due to any portmarnock style rules just 0 lady members

NotCarrotRidge · 07-11-2020 9:35pm

NotCarrotRidge wrote: »

Added in Kilkenny. Still shaking my head at it. Seems very high.

Kilkenny revised down to 128, which makes a bit more sense.

gypsy79 · 07-11-2020 9:39pm

willabur wrote: »

There are no Corballis ladies - not due to any portmarnock style rules just 0 lady members

Can we send you a few up rom Elmgreen??

They get proportionally 3 to 4 more times than males and then follow us around in two and three balls tutting at us and telling us to hurry up. They have some much shorter walks to tee boxes to amplify the issue

golfguy1 · 08-11-2020 12:14am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Can we send you a few up rom Elmgreen??

They get proportionally 3 to 4 more times than males and then follow us around in two and three balls tutting at us and telling us to hurry up. They have some much shorter walks to tee boxes to amplify the issue

Leave faster players through like you should and nobody will be tutting at you.

finglashoop · 08-11-2020 12:19am

golfguy1 wrote: »

Leave faster players through like you should and nobody will be tutting at you.

Thru to where. The f#cking place is rammed all the time

gypsy79 · 08-11-2020 9:04am

finglashoop wrote: »

Thru to where. The f#cking place is rammed all the time

And wait till it gets back to 8 minutes

The women don’t take any time or consideration over schist. It is speed golf and shown in their scores.

And most of them have incorrect handicaps. 36 points and you invariably win by 3/4

Letting them through causes bigger tail backs

gypsy79 · 08-11-2020 9:06am

golfguy1 wrote: »

Leave faster players through like you should and nobody will be tutting at you.

The real answer is to take tee times off them and make them go out in 4s like the men

This would also let men play too

hurleronditch · 08-11-2020 9:22am

finglashoop wrote: »

Thru to where. The f#cking place is rammed all the time

If you’re held in front then surely these tutting ladies can see this? And if the can’t see it you just explain that you can’t go any faster?

gypsy79 · 08-11-2020 9:46am

hurleronditch wrote: »

If you’re held in front then surely these tutting ladies can see this? And if the can’t see it you just explain that you can’t go any faster?

Been there, done that.

They play bad speed golf in 2s and 3s. Carr are afraid of sexism by reducing their tee times

To emphasise how bad the speed golf these women play. The last competition was won with 34 points off 34. There are a couple decent golfers. Second place was 32 points off 16

But then there are, just picking a couple of the worst out:

8th - 24 off 33
11th - 16th - 22 off 35, 37, 34, 41, 29 and 26

Last was 18 points of 41

There is a chinese girl who is off 18 and used to win every week with 33-36 and not get cut (after she was cut from 27). They hate her and she plays with the lads now on Saturdays.

Seve OB · 08-11-2020 1:49pm

Jaysus lads I don’t think this is the place for this

gypsy79 · 08-11-2020 2:14pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Jaysus lads I don’t think this is the place for this

Sorry I agree. I started it from the point that there seems to be a shortcoming in that many courses they have measure some of the shorter ‘men’s’ tee for women

hurleronditch · 09-11-2020 12:18am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Been there, done that.

They play bad speed golf in 2s and 3s. Carr are afraid of sexism by reducing their tee times

To emphasise how bad the speed golf these women play. The last competition was won with 34 points off 34. There are a couple decent golfers. Second place was 32 points off 16

But then there are, just picking a couple of the worst out:

8th - 24 off 33
11th - 16th - 22 off 35, 37, 34, 41, 29 and 26

Last was 18 points of 41

There is a chinese girl who is off 18 and used to win every week with 33-36 and not get cut (after she was cut from 27). They hate her and she plays with the lads now on Saturdays.

Thats a lovely story and all, but to be honest it could be BiBi Baskin and a Tibetan monk shooting 12 points off a handicap of 70, or Bryson, Rory and Tiger going around in 20 under par, it doesnt matter - if they are faster than you, and you are more than half a hole behind the group in front, you should let them through, if you are up to the group ahead, you ignore them and play your own game and let them tut away all they want to.

Whatever their motives for being there, the etiquette stays the same, if youre not to time and they are, but youre not letting them through, you are 100% in the wrong every time.

gypsy79 · 09-11-2020 10:32am

hurleronditch wrote: »

Thats a lovely story and all, but to be honest it could be BiBi Baskin and a Tibetan monk shooting 12 points off a handicap of 70, or Bryson, Rory and Tiger going around in 20 under par, it doesnt matter - if they are faster than you, and you are more than half a hole behind the group in front, you should let them through, if you are up to the group ahead, you ignore them and play your own game and let them tut away all they want to.

Whatever their motives for being there, the etiquette stays the same, if youre not to time and they are, but youre not letting them through, you are 100% in the wrong every time.

There are no gaps. The course is rammed. They pile up behind the men as they are all playing speed golf. Can you not understand if men are playing four hour rounds and then the women behind come out playing 3 hour rounds after they will pile up behind

End of conversation surely

charlieIRL · 09-11-2020 10:49am

gypsy79 wrote: »

End of conversation surely

Agreed, lets go back on topic.

manster · 11-11-2020 3:56pm

Top 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Bottom 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

dk1982 · 11-11-2020 6:14pm

manster wrote: »

Top 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Bottom 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

That corballis rating will never not seem ridiculous. And i dont care what anyone says, because its a shorter course does not justify it. Shorter does not necessarily mean easier. It was actually brought up on Off The Balls Golf Weekly podcast last week and they literally laughed at how ridiculous it is.

Luckycharm · 11-11-2020 6:31pm

manster wrote: »

Top 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Bottom 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Interesting how 9 of the top 10 highest sloped courses are parkland courses, I think Ceann Seibheal is links?

gypsy79 · 11-11-2020 6:36pm

dk1982 wrote: »

That corballis rating will never not seem ridiculous. And i dont care what anyone says, because its a shorter course does not justify it. Shorter does not necessarily mean easier. It was actually brought up on Off The Balls Golf Weekly podcast last week and they literally laughed at how ridiculous it is.

Enniscrone is equally as silly

AnBeagalltach · 11-11-2020 6:44pm

It’s the Enniscrone back course the Scurmore not the Dunes course.

On Corballis- You have to factor in the thousands of 65 year old plus golfers. My dad can hit/reach about 5-6 greens in regulation in our local parkland. This is 12 plus in Corballis and for a huge amount amount of golfers that drive it less than 200 yards and are nacky around the greens, they would score far better on Corballis than an average parkland.

prawnsambo · 11-11-2020 6:52pm

manster wrote: »

Top 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Bottom 10 18 Hole (Male) per club

Where did you get those do you mind my asking? Not sure it's all that accurate since Portmarnock Golf Club isn't in the top 10 despite it being rated at 142 off blue and even higher off some of the mixed tees.

gypsy79 · 11-11-2020 6:59pm

AnBeagalltach wrote: »

It’s the Enniscrone back course the Scurmore not the Dunes course.

My mistake.

Enniscrone is 116 off yellow. I was mistaken as I couldnt believe it when I seen it. AND the rating is 1.5 less the par.

Naturally neither my rounds there are in my top 20

Course Sex Par Rating Slope
Blue M 73 73.5 96.5 124 37.7 / 127 35.8 / 121
White M 73 72.8 95.4 122 37.1 / 127 35.7 / 116
Yellow M 73 71.5 92.9 116 36.6 / 121 34.9 / 110
Green M 73 69.2 89.4 109 35.5 / 114 33.7 / 103
Red F 73 72.5 102.3 127 36.5 / 127 36.0 / 126

Course Rankings by Slope Rating

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