Emerald Airlines.... new kid in town!

Locker10a · 16-11-2020 6:44pm

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goingnowhere wrote: »

It wasn't uncommon to see a A320 fly under a regional flight number

Indeed, a320s were sometimes subbed in due to the ATRs not being able to take all the bags

faoiarvok · 16-11-2020 8:55pm

Wonder what callsign they’ll use?

Westair already have Emerald as theirs.

Stovepipe · 16-11-2020 10:03pm

Locker10a wrote: »

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Indeed, a320s were sometimes subbed in due to the ATRs not being able to take all the bags

Sometimes, that was done because of demand, ie, they had sold enough seats to justify a 320, and the bag load and a bit of cargo. ATRs were/are more important to the EI operation as a feeder bringing in pax, to contribute to the A330 loads.

goingnowhere · 16-11-2020 11:13pm

6 nations weekends EDI was mainline operated

L1011 · 16-11-2020 11:23pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

6 nations weekends EDI was mainline operated

Also happened to CWL when that was still Regional (rather than dumped) - and it continued to happen even after it was dumped!

Jamie2k9 · 16-11-2020 11:42pm

Put it this way, would ST give up the most profitable flight the early DUB-EDI service to EI mainline. Worth remembering mainline were down to run that before they ST added the second morning service and in turn axed another route to make way.

Outside Scotland there is no issues, why because EI mainline didn't operate BRS, LBA, CWF before EIR started. You will notice EIR joined in on MAN/BHX and while both work together EI for example haven't exactly given up the most profitable flights.

The 6 Nations isn't really relevant as it happened long before EIR came about though in recent years EI mainline have cut back but that's probably because its not as lucrative as before.

1123heavy · 17-11-2020 12:23am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Put it this way, would ST give up the most profitable flight the early DUB-EDI service to EI mainline. Worth remembering mainline were down to run that before they ST added the second morning service and in turn axed another route to make way.

Outside Scotland there is no issues, why because EI mainline didn't operate BRS, LBA, CWF before EIR started. You will notice EIR joined in on MAN/BHX and while both work together EI for example haven't exactly given up the most profitable flights.

The 6 Nations isn't really relevant as it happened long before EIR came about though in recent years EI mainline have cut back but that's probably because its not as lucrative as before.

Where are you getting this information from exactly? Aer Lingus Regional has existed since 2010, EI most certainly have sent A320s to EDI in that time.

Jamie2k9 · 17-11-2020 12:29am

1123heavy wrote: »

Where are you getting this information from exactly? Aer Lingus Regional has existed since 2010, EI most certainly have sent A320s to EDI in that time.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. They have but 6 Nations traffic from EI/EIR has reduced in recent years so the big mainline weekend schedule is a lot smaller now but thats not related to EIR.

They have even sent the A330s to EDI and BRS before.

1123heavy · 17-11-2020 12:34am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Apologies if I wasn't clear. They have but 6 Nations traffic from EI/EIR has reduced in recent years so the big mainline weekend schedule is a lot smaller now.

They have even sent the A330s to EDI and BRS before.

That may be true, but the fact does remain that EI have always had the right to do any EIR route they so wished to do at any point in time. They simply told Stobart they would be taking care of whatever flight on whatever day and that was it. This wasn't done so much because there wasn't much of a need to do it and economically it only made sense on the odd MAN/BHX route where it happened more than EDI

10-12-2020 2:13pm

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-sale-talks-at-advanced-stage-with-suitor-39846563.html

Stobart likely to be sold soon(not to emerald) releasing its parent company from €90m of guarantees (obviously not walking away from these scot free).

Also in the article

“Mr McCarthy said Emerald Airlines is now in “advanced discussions” with five leasing companies to secure initial aircraft to operate the Aer Lingus Regional service when Stobart Air’s contract ends. Emerald previously said that it would eventually have a fleet of 15 ATR-72 aircraft.

Emerald is negotiating the lease of the ATR-72 turboprop aircraft on a so-called “power-by-the-hour” basis, before eventually moving to a full lease.“

mr.anonymous · 10-12-2020 2:52pm

Any speculation as to who is the buyer? (Article has paywall)

goingnowhere · 10-12-2020 4:02pm

It isn't Emerald

smurfjed · 10-12-2020 7:08pm

As much as I would love to see Emerald purchase Stobart for the sake of the staff, it usually doesn’t make the best business sense to buy the problems of old airlines.

Stovepipe · 11-12-2020 2:31pm

Stobart laid off their apprentices recently. If you can't or won't keep on your cheapest people, what chance is there?

hurleronditch · 12-12-2020 9:33pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Stobart laid off their apprentices recently. If you can't or won't keep on your cheapest people, what chance is there?

Often it’s not price, it’s price to get rid of, and an apprentice on a training contract could be made redundantly for close to zero euro. Someone with 10+ years experience on a healthy salary and possibly union redundancy terms can be very expensive. Also, if you get rid of all your senior staff your apprentices can’t run the place, and apprentices in most professions require an investment by employer and employee for a future long term benefit. If there’s no future for stobart what’s the point.

13-12-2020 3:54pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Stobart laid off their apprentices recently. If you can't or won't keep on your cheapest people, what chance is there?

I’m sure other senior engineers have gone too so probably worth reporting the whole pictures not selective pieces

As poster above said apprentices carry hidden costs such as senior engineers time to train, review, sign off and document so they are a lot more expensive than just their wage. Apprentices are an investment with the usual 3 year payback, in the current situation I’d imagine that maths don’t add up to keep them. That might sound harsh but when your patent company is bailing you out to the extent of £15m in just 9 months and you know you won’t be around in the long term it’s probably justified

“ Stobart Group said last month that Stobart Air and Propius have burned through almost £15m (€16.6m) in cash since they were reacquired by the UK’s Stobart Group in April.”

Stovepipe · 14-12-2020 5:10am

I was told about the aptces getting the door as a single piece of information. Most of the experienced people are already gone. They are down to a handful of certifiers. The end is nigh.

mr.anonymous · 06-09-2021 10:24am

Emerald granted their AOC after DUB-ORK demo flight and inspections by IAA.

kevinandrew · 14-11-2021 1:34pm

EI-GPP, the first ATR72 for Emerald, is currently completing a flight from Exeter to Norwich.

It’s been at Exeter Aerospace, a facility of Dublin Aerospace, for a couple of months reviving work and carrying out test flights.

Norwich is home to Air Livery aircraft painting services, maybe we could be seeing the first Emerald ATR in Aer Lingus colours soon?

jucylucy · 15-11-2021 9:40am

It’s due in today for a paint job…usually takes about 7 days!

kevinandrew · 17-12-2021 1:43am

With the announcement today of their March 17 launch, Emerald have also said they’ve set up a company in NI and applied for a UK AOC with the intent to begin operations from Belfast City under Aer Lingus Regional as soon as possible in 2022.

17-12-2021 1:25pm

Would they operate from ORK/SNN as well?

SNN base closed back in 2015 for EIR but they still operated BHX/EDI on W rotation from ORK

kevinandrew · 17-12-2021 3:36pm

They probably will return at some point but at the moment the focus will understandably be on the larger network at Dublin, and the reliable domestic UK routes from Belfast City.

Ryanair has filled the gap on some UK regional routes from Cork and Shannon, at relatively poor frequencies at first but will increase them. If Ryanair eventually get bored (as they’ve done many times before) and see opportunities elsewhere, that’ll leave room for Emerald.

Irish Steve · 20-12-2021 12:27am

I suspect that Exeter could get a better service than many are expecting, in that Dublin Aerospace have bought the maintenance operation that was Flybe, so I could see things like Belfast Exeter Dublin Exeter Belfast being a more frequent rotation, with airframe changes happening to get aircraft in and out of maintenance, rather than having to operate ferry flights. Might be guessing here, but as both Belfast and Dublin had services to Exeter, it would seem to me to be a logical choice and facilitate airframe swaps without too much inconvenience.

goingnowhere · 20-12-2021 8:32pm

The AOC comes into play here

UK AOC -> UK G reg -> UK pilots licence

IE AOC -> IE EI reg -> EASA pilots licence

The questions is NI in EASA or not as EI mainline is flying EI reg UK domestic, whereas FR got into hot water. So if EI is currently able to operate what accounts to UK domestic (where every flight either starts or ends in NI) who needs a UK AOC for EI regional ? Or is EI at Belfast actually wet leased to BA?

basill · 20-12-2021 10:28pm

EI has an exemption to operate the UK to UK flights with its Irish reg till next year. It is my understanding that they will then fly G reg on those routes. Nothing to see here.

kevinandrew · 20-12-2021 10:42pm

Aer Lingus is still flying for BA as a wet lease operator at Belfast City. I believe three A320s were assigned to the job back in January when the Brexit transition period ended and it was initially to last just until March but with no realistic solution apart from permanently moving some A320s to the UK register (and thus severely limiting their fleet flexibility) they’ve instead continued the wet lease flying.

I think they get away with this because by appearing to wet lease to BA, they’re operating for an airline with the majority of its aircraft on the UK register whereas Ryanair UK just had one token aircraft and the majority of its planned flying used non-UK registered aircraft.

Aer Lingus would run into the same problem if they leased to Aer Lingus UK, the majority of their flying in the UK wouldn’t be UK reg aircraft anymore.

Masala · 07-01-2022 5:03pm

Emerald win the Donegal - Dublin PSO contract for next 4 years....

It's a start ......... well done them.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/77190-ministers-ryan-and-naughton-announce-emerald-airlines-as-the-new-operator-on-the-government-funded-donegal-dublin-pso-air-route/#

07-01-2022 5:08pm

225km approx as the crow flies to Dublin Airport and not particularly close to any population centre.

That's the price you pay if you want to keep a TD in the Constituency.

L1011 · 07-01-2022 5:11pm

225km but over 4 hours drive. Most of the voters would prefer a Derry PSO, CFN is there to support the IDA business park and hence jobs.

Flight times still support a day in Dublin from Donegal; not the other way around as they also did when there was a night stopping frame + Glasgow flights in between. Used to use that in an old job, don't need it now though.

07-01-2022 5:24pm

"CFN is there to support the IDA business park and hence jobs." at what cost, at what cost...it's on a fecking peninsula facing out on to the Atlantic Ocean. Cool airport and surroundings but..Jesus wept!

marno21 · 07-01-2022 5:53pm

EI website says they will be operated by an ATR 72. Wonder if Emerald will eventually take on a 42 for this route/Isle of Man.

EI-GEV, the AT46 formally of Stobart is now flying for Loganair as G-LMSA

PinOnTheRight · 11-01-2022 2:11pm

I see EI-GPN is up doing training at CFN today as EAI3T

theskeptic · 12-01-2022 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455145#Comment_118455145

From "Donegal Spotter" https://youtu.be/BoKfs7585rE

AMKC · 13-01-2022 2:03pm

Are turbines more efficient than jet engines or cheaper to run or why is it that some planes still use them. Would it just not be practical for a jet engine on that route or is it its just cheaper to build a turbine engined plane so cheaper for the airline to buy and operate on certain routes where a jet engined plane would be to expensive?

Chris_5339762 · 13-01-2022 2:09pm

Turbines are way more efficient. I remember hearing once that some jets use as much fuel taxiing than a turbine does on a sector.

Noxegon · 13-01-2022 4:54pm

Apropos of nothing, I've decided to bite the bullet and do a quick trip to Donegal to experience the "little Fokker" before Amapola leave the route.

I wonder how much the taxpayer is paying to subsidise the ATR72 – seems like way too much capacity for a small airport in the middle of nowhere.

Masala · 13-01-2022 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468586#Comment_118468586

Am sure the taxpayer are subsidising Bus Eireann to Donegal as well...... and irish Rail... if there was a train service.

kevinandrew · 13-01-2022 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468586#Comment_118468586

Stobart Air was seeing impressive year on year growth on its CFN/KIR routes before the pandemic, no doubt helped by the Aer Lingus Regional franchise with its brand power, Stobart was expecting to carry upwards of 100k on CFN/KIR by now. The ATR42 was probably ideally suited to CFN in terms of capacity but I believe the overall operating costs are quite similar so for Emerald the advantages of operating a sole 42 model would have been slim and if the recovery gathers pace, the ATR72 should be well positioned for future demand.

https://www.stobartair.com/passengers-dublin_kerry-donegal/

In the continued absence of suitable rail infrastructure, an air route will continue to be an important link for the region.

kevinandrew · 13-01-2022 7:31pm

Emerald has confirmed it will launch a base at Belfast City Airport under its Aer Lingus Regional franchise, it will serve six destinations in Britain;

https://www.emeraldairlines.com/article/more-flights-and-lower-fares-passengers-set-to-benefit-as-emerald-airlines-and-george-best-belfast-city-airport-announce-new-long-term-partnership

It will use a British operating certificate and has more routes planned for later in 2022. Interestingly, no start date has been included with the announcement which suggests to me it's a pre-emptive move ahead of the Flybe 2.0 return which has apparently chosen Birmingham and Belfast City has its launch bases.

Stovepipe · 13-01-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467222#Comment_118467222

turboprops are more efficient at lower altitudes and lower airspeeds than jet-only aircraft. On a short leg like DUB-CFN,they don't have to climb very high and burn lots of fuel doing so. Also, when it comes to taxying, the ATR has a propellor mode that allows one engine to operate as an APU so the prop isnt turning and they taxy out on one engine,which saves fuel on long taxying sites like Dublin Airport.

EchoIndia · 14-01-2022 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470307#Comment_118470307

To which I would add that (a) on short routes there can be little enough difference in elapsed time as the cruising portion of the flight is not sufficient for the jet's speed advantage to have much impact, and (b) turboprops generally can operate off shorter runways than jets, Donegal being a good example.

coastwatch · 14-01-2022 6:25pm

I think the ATR42 has similiar fuel consumption per seat, as an average family car, around 50mpg? I think Aer Arann or Aer Lingus used to put that on advertising posters.

California Dreamer · 17-01-2022 5:27pm

Where are the 2 ATR's they currently have at the moment?

marno21 · 17-01-2022 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490323#Comment_118490323

EI-GPN is in Exeter and EI-GPP is in Bristol.

xper · 17-01-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468586#Comment_118468586

16,014,913 EUR ex VAT covering three years.

While the tender has a minimum requirement of a 30 seat aircraft, there was a small fraction of the tender evlalution score reserved for the number of seats provided above the minimum required plus points for passenger growth/marketing proposals but 80% of the evaluation score was still on the bid price vs other tenderers. The idea is this encourages the operator to still keep the bid low to secure the contract and take the risk of being able to make additonal income on extra seats supplied.

There are constraints on straight up profitting on a route monopoly though - the tender requires 80% of seats to be sold for €80 or less. This incentivises the opertor to provide a bigger aircraft to allow more seats to be sold at a premium above the POS obligation but the onus is on the operator to find that market. If they're successful, the region gets an extra benefit at no additional cost to the taxpayer. While Stobart were using the smaller ATR, they were growing the passenger numbers year on year before covid so Emerald must reckon it can continue that in what is hopefully a post-covid contract duration.

Source: https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/196290/0/0?returnUrl=transactions.asp&b=

Masala · 17-01-2022 9:09pm

R u sure that is for 3 yrs........ ?. That would put cost at €5.33m a yr..

i think its for 4 yrs.... putting cost at €4m a yr.... more and less as per previous contract with Stobart allowing for inflation plus fuel plus contingency for slow recovery.

Only €900k diff from next bidder which I suppose was Amopola I presume.... ooohhhh that was close!!

xper · 22-01-2022 12:18pm

Yeah, you're right. The contract is for 3 years with a year extension option and the headline figure is for four years:

"Tenderers are required to provide an annual price for each year of the contract (3 years plus 1 year). The Tender Price to be used in the formula below is the aggregate price over the 4-year period."

kevinandrew · 25-01-2022 1:13am

EI-FSL has become the 3rd Emerald aircraft painted in Aer Lingus Regional colours.

https://flic.kr/p/2mYJwKq

Spotted in Toulouse Francazal, an ATR maintenance base a few miles south of the more well known Toulouse-Blagnac.

California Dreamer · 25-01-2022 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528819#Comment_118528819

A former STK aircraft, not much going to be needed done to that to get it ready to go!

Emerald Airlines.... new kid in town!

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