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Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

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13567…30

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    #62
    snoopboggybog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭snoopboggybog


    EO2019 wrote: »
    If you earn for example €40k then your pension would be €20k (less if your career average is less). Of this just shy of €11k is the state pension so the actual pension you recieve for your contributions is €9k

    So to get the 20K you actually don't have to contribue anything more, just the normal deductions that are taking out? I know 11k of it is the state pension


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    #63
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    dubrov wrote: »
    Don't overrate the pension.
    You will be on an average salary pension and have to pay pension contributions and the pension levy.
    It is also net of the state pension.

    Say your average salary is 60k per year and the state pension is 10k per year.
    If you work 40 years you will receive 60*40/80 = 30k a year net of the state pension.
    So it is really only worth 20k per year in your pension to you.
    That's still pretty good but as I say you have to pay for it.
    Personally I would see a private role that contributed 8-10% of your salary to a defined contribution pension as being superior.

    Another thing to consider is that when you hit the top of the band, it may be difficult to move up a level.
    In many cases it is easier to move to the private sector and return than try and get an internal promotion.

    Lastly, don't expect to work with cutting edge technologies.
    Risk is the priority, not output so things can be very slow to change

    If my private sector pension returns, for example, €30k per annum this income will continue after my death to my wife and then to my children. (Inheritance tax rules apply)
    The public service pension of, for example, €30k will be €15k to my wife on my death and nil to my children after she dies.


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    #64
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,408 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    So to get the 20K you actually don't have to contribue anything more, just the normal deductions that are taking out? I know 11k of it is the state pension

    The earlier salary comparison between public and private on 50K per annum difference is the net cost to you for the CS pension (ie your pension contributions for the year)


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    #65
    Ollie321
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Ollie321


    jim o doom wrote: »
    This is not necessarily true - I know people who went from Clerical officer to Higher Executive officer within months (a 2 grade jump) and it was a year after that they got Assistant Principal. Other people try for years.

    Is it not the case that to apply for HEO you must have 2 years service?


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    #66
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    There must be a market out there for single/widower retired public servants in their 90s to marry 20 year olds (male/female). The young husband/wife would then get the half pension for life on the pensioners death.


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    #67
    babaracus
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭babaracus


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    There must be a market out there for single/widower retired public servants in their 90s to marry 20 year olds (male/female). The young husband/wife would then get the half pension for life on the pensioners death.

    I think you must be married a certain length of time before death, could be 2years but I can't remember - no death bed weddings allowed. Also not sure if you marry after you retire......would probably get it but best make sure before proposing to some 80 year old :)


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    #68
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,408 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Ollie321 wrote: »
    jim o doom wrote: »
    This is not necessarily true - I know people who went from Clerical officer to Higher Executive officer within months (a 2 grade jump) and it was a year after that they got Assistant Principal. Other people try for years.

    Is it not the case that to apply for HEO you must have 2 years service?

    It would depend on the competiton and how they applied.


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    #69
    babaracus
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭babaracus


    Ollie321 wrote: »
    jim o doom wrote: »
    This is not necessarily true - I know people who went from Clerical officer to Higher Executive officer within months (a 2 grade jump) and it was a year after that they got Assistant Principal. Other people try for years.

    Is it not the case that to apply for HEO you must have 2 years service?

    That is only for confined civil service competitions, for open competitions anyone can apply


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    #70
    Ollie321
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Ollie321


    babaracus wrote: »
    Ollie321 wrote: »

    That is only for confined civil service competitions, for open competitions anyone can apply

    I have never seen an Open HEO comp?


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    #71
    DaisysB
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭DaisysB


    OP you would likely be a new entrant and on the Single Public Service Pension Scheme https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/overview/
    This is probably not as beneficial as the older schemes that other posters are referring to. I do not understand it well enough to explain in detail, but you may be on the wrong track with some of the information above.
    I joined the CS in 2015 and i have never looked back based on flexibility and security. Best of luck with your decision.


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    #72
    babaracus
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭babaracus


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    So to get the 20K you actually don't have to contribue anything more, just the normal deductions that are taking out? I know 11k of it is the state pension

    Civil and Public servants pay occupational pension contributions in addition to full PRSI. The occupational contributions plus the pension levy introduced during the last crisis are paid throughout your career. The levy was renamed the ASC or something recently - additional supperannuation contribution presumably


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    #73
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    Every day is a school day. I wasn't aware of that.

    I heard Public Sector workers don't pay PRSI. So are they not entitled to state pension?

    All PS hired since April 1995 pay full-rate PRSI, class A.

    So they may be entitled to all the usual PRSI class A benefits.


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    #74
    babaracus
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭babaracus


    Ollie321 wrote: »
    babaracus wrote: »

    I have never seen an Open HEO comp?

    There has been Open HEO Competitions, not sure recently mind you.


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    #75
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    I must've had my wires crossed.

    I always had it in my head that certain public workers were not entitled to the state pension (they only got their ps pension) and as such were exempt from PRSI.

    Yes, you are referring to PS hired pre April 1995.

    They pay a lower rate of PRSI, and don't get the usual SI benefits.


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    #76
    snoopboggybog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭snoopboggybog


    babaracus wrote: »
    Civil and Public servants pay occupational pension contributions in addition to full PRSI. The occupational contributions plus the pension levy introduced during the last crisis are paid throughout your career. The levy was renamed the ASC or something recently - additional supperannuation contribution presumably

    I get you now thanks, can you add more of your pay to the pension or are you stuck on that for life?


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    #77
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    Can you explain how the pension works? Do you have to match that 16% or is it automatically paid without matching it?

    I'm really confused about how pensions work in it.

    I see your entitled to a pension better than the state pension even if you don't contribute anything yourself?

    PS pay normal PRSI, and so build up rights to normal PRSI pension.

    PS also have a DB work pension, integrated with the State Pension.

    If you join since 2013, you are joining the Single PS pension scheme.

    One single scheme for all recent hired staff.

    https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/

    The are two contributions:

    (1) 6.5% of salary, normal superannuation contribution
    (2) the PRD introduced in 2009/2010, now renamed ASC, that starts at 34,250


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    #78
    The Mulk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭The Mulk


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    I get you now thanks, can you add more of your pay to the pension or are you stuck on that for life?

    You can set up AVC's ,there's some posts on boards about it.

    I transferred my CIF pension and "bought service" with the transfer value.

    Best of luck in the interview, I entered the PS in 2008 and don't regret it


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    #79
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    I get you now thanks, can you add more of your pay to the pension or are you stuck on that for life?

    You can do AVCs, if you like.

    Look up Cornmarket, a broker that sells AVCs to PS.


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    #80
    mcgragger
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭mcgragger


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    Can you explain how the pension works? Do you have to match that 16% or is it automatically paid without matching it?

    I'm really confused about how pensions work in it.

    I see your entitled to a pension better than the state pension even if you don't contribute anything yourself?

    I really like the idea of flexi time, A lot of Fridays I do bolloxed in my current role and wouldn't mind an extra hour in the morning.

    They pay 16% into a pension fund and I pay 5% so its 21% in all that is gong into my fund every month. Its with Irish Life.
    I transferred value from my other pensions in so when I retire I will pick up whatever a week from this pension and whatever a week from the general gov old age pension. It comforting knowing that I can fund stuff when I stop working. Im 41 so have a long way to go. Hopefully


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    #81
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    You forgot to add the 40 sick day holidays
    Probably because it doesn't exist.
    Pkiernan wrote: »
    You're right, I grossly underestimated it.

    The Paid Sick Leave scheme provides for a maximum of 92 days on full pay in a rolling one year period, followed by a maximum of 91 days on half pay.

    This is subject to a maximum of 183 days paid sick leave in a rolling four year period.
    You forgot the bit about needing a doctor's cert - to confirm that you are are actually sick.

    Talk to people who get cancer or other serious conditions about how far 92 days takes them.
    Pkiernan wrote: »
    I have stated the facts.

    Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

    The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in theprivate sector according to figures released by the Department of PublicExpenditure.

    Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?
    Yeah, funny how teachers (surrounded by snotty kids all day), nurses, prison officers, Garda get sick more often.

    BTW, have you looked at how leave is counted for private sector?
    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    Private sector pensions are at the mercy of the economy and the government can decide to step in and take a lump out. Public pensions are guaranteed. Public pensions are calculated as (number of years service / 80) X final salary.

    Harder to fire for poor performance.

    Absenteeism not punished in the same way.

    Little or no performance reviews or PIP schemes.
    Not true x 4.
    Check out the Single Pension Scheme, which is not based on final salary.


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    #82
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Geuze wrote: »

    You can do AVCs, if you like.

    Look up Cornmarket, a broker that sells AVCs to PS.

    Don't!

    (Written with burning passion by a sucker who once did and still regrets it!)


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    #83
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    mcgragger wrote: »
    They pay 16% into a pension fund and I pay 5% so its 21% in all that is gong into my fund every month. Its with Irish Life.
    I transferred value from my other pensions in so when I retire I will pick up whatever a week from this pension and whatever a week from the general gov old age pension. It comforting knowing that I can fund stuff when I stop working. Im 41 so have a long way to go. Hopefully

    Note that this post, quoted above, is not referring to the PS pension, so it is not an answer to your question.


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    #84
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Don't!

    (Written with burning passion by a sucker who once did and still regrets it!)

    Yes, sorry, there are other brokers that sell AVCs, and yes Cornmarket are known for high fees.

    However, I see now that their allocation rates are 100%, which surprised me.


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    #85
    mrsgiller
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭mrsgiller


    Public servant here, only sick leave I have had in the last 8 years is 8 weeks when I broke my leg, we don't all abuse the system


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    #86
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    So justs get taking off you for the state pension?

    Yes.


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    #87
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    babaracus wrote: »
    You are thinking of those recruited prior to 1995 - they pay a much lower rate of PRSI and build up no entitlement to the State contributory pension (old age pension).

    All Public and Civil Servants recruited since April 1995 pay the same rate of full PRSI as every other person in the state.

    Private sector pay 4%. Pre 95 civil servants pay 2.9% and qualify for crappy benefits. Not even glasses or dentist.


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    #88
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    mrsgiller wrote: »
    Public servant here, only sick leave I have had in the last 8 years is 8 weeks when I broke my leg, we don't all abuse the system

    I've had 4 days in 4:years and that was only because I was sent home when I came in the day after coming off my bike in O'Connell st and narrowly avoiding a double decker bus.


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    #89
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Where are you living OP? If it is in the country or regional town, you are even better off in the Public Sector with cheaper housing but with a salary not adjusted to reflect the lower cost location.


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    #90
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,188 ✭✭✭Augme


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for their insights as well.

    From what I can gather the public sector seems to be much better, 22 days holidays versus 30 days is a big plus for me.

    Pay Increase for myself.

    Better job opportunities.

    More chances for promotion.

    Planning on a mortgage next year for myself so the extra bump in wages will be huge for me as a single applicant.

    I'll do the interview anyway and see what comes of it.


    More chances for promotion will definitely take a massive hit now. I don't think we will reach a moratorium but recuirtments and promotions will significantly slow down post Covid.


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    #91
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Nearly 20 years in the civil service and I think the only benefit is the flexible working arrangements offered (in my office mostly to parents).
    There is employment stability for sure, but I’ve seen people fired and leave before they were fired. It does happen.

    I’ve worked in 3 departments and I’ve never seen colleagues not reprimanded in some way for underperformance and disciplinary reasons. Sick leave is very closely monitored and there are also repercussions for taking sick leave, whatever the reason.

    In the last few months, I know colleagues who have been forced to be redeployed, causing great stress.
    Have also know people to be transferred in the last recession, doubling their commute to work.

    Also, you can be moved about in your own office at management’s will.

    So maybe it’s not as secure as some might think.


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