Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

tayto lover · 07-06-2020 11:15am

barneystinson wrote: »

Their doctor will have certified them off work, so you should probably ask them for the doctor's details and take it up with them...

Those bloody private sector doctors.

07-06-2020 11:18am

barneystinson wrote: »

Their doctor will have certified them off work, so you should probably ask them for the doctor's details and take it up with them...

Funny how these doctors suddenly got very good at treating illnessess of their public sector patients at the exact same time as sick pay benefits were reduced in the last recession.

byhookorbycrook · 07-06-2020 11:22am

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have stated the facts.

Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in theprivate sector according to figures released by the Department of PublicExpenditure.

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

If you miss a Friday and a Monday , that counts as 4 sick days , not 2 , which goes a way to explaining the seemingly higher public sick days . You also have people in high risk jobs such as medical staff and Gardaí .

FluffPiece · 07-06-2020 11:23am

ted1 wrote: »

I’d question why you couldn’t work with a broken leg ?
I’ve worked with broken legs, ankles and arms over various stages

As mentioned, a doctor most likely has declared them unfit for work and following proper procedure, the workplace wouldn't let them back unless they were certified fit to work? Depending on the job usually but I couldn't imagine a lad with a broken leg being able to get down and inspect a sewer easily enough as an example.

barneystinson · 07-06-2020 11:38am

salonfire wrote: »

Funny how these doctors suddenly got very good at treating illnessess of their public sector patients at the exact same time as sick pay benefits were reduced in the last recession.

Have I missed something, was there a revolutionary development in orthopaedic medicine in the treatment of broken limbs...?

Although, I think I understand the point you're trying to make, is there stats around that, or are you just throwing sh1t around based on your clear biases?

07-06-2020 11:47am

barneystinson wrote: »

Have I missed something, was there a revolutionary development in orthopaedic medicine in the treatment of broken limbs...?

Although, I think I understand the point you're trying to make, is there stats around that, or are you just throwing sh1t around based on your clear biases?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sick-leave-rules-in-public-service-generate-savings-of-50m-1.2476524?mode=amp

Amazing how many were suddenly well enough to work (260,000 days) when benefits were reduced.

ted1 · 07-06-2020 12:01pm

barneystinson wrote: »

Their doctor will have certified them off work, so you should probably ask them for the doctor's details and take it up with them...

Doesn’t answer the question why they could work. A doctor will gladly sign people off for various reasons. A broken leg goes in a cast, may or may need surgery. But once in a cast you just need crutches to move about. Hardly an issue stopping you from working.

Plenty of amputees and wheelchair users in the work place

dubrov · 07-06-2020 12:03pm

These threads always go off topic and descend quickly

FluffPiece · 07-06-2020 12:15pm

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn’t answer the question why they could work. A doctor will gladly sign people off for various reasons. A broken leg goes in a cast, may or may need surgery. But once in a cast you just need crutches to move about. Hardly an issue stopping you from working.

Plenty of amputees and wheelchair users in the work place

You are assuming every public sector worker works at a desk however. I have seen desk workers work in casts, but in general they will take time home to recover under doctor advice. If you have an issue with people following medical advice, you need to take your issue up with the doctors giving this advice and dispute it with your own professional medical advice. I assume here you must be a professional to know that every limb injury is the same more or less and everyone can work regardless. I might be wrong but your posting style implicates as such that you are. But just in case, you might be interested in some questions below;

Would you prefer if your house went on a fire and one of the fire service personnel rocked up with a broken leg and with crutches?

How about sewer inspections? Getting into manholes and organizing a removal of a fatberg is easy, sure they have two legs!

Site visit inspections?

Litter wardens going to use a crutch around town and try get people to stop for them when caught littering?

Traffic wardens going to go all day on crutches?

Are any of the above going to be able to fill paperwork correctly and in a timely manor with broken arms?

Next you'll want each type of person having different sick leave allowances depending on the job but then moan that it's inefficient to have someone administer different types of sick leave.

I get it though, they are some people that take the absolute biscuit with sick leave, there really is. But you know what, the vast majority don't. You are just like others in this thread who will highlight the worse case scenario and say it applies equally across the board for all PS workers.

No we don't all earn €1,000k a week wages.
No we don't all take 8 days sick leave every year or 40 days a year.
No we don't all get lump sums of 100K / 200k or pension pots of 1.8million.

If we got the above, every person would be a public sector worker rather than a private sector worker. Funnily enough, a lot of people turn public jobs down because the pay is below what they can earn in the private sector starting out.

ted1 · 07-06-2020 12:34pm

FluffPiece wrote: »

You are assuming every public sector worker works at a desk however. I have seen desk workers work in casts, but in general they will take time home to recover under doctor advice. If you have an issue with people following medical advice, you need to take your issue up with the doctors giving this advice and dispute it with your own professional medical advice. I assume here you must be a professional to know that every limb injury is the same more or less and everyone can work regardless. I might be wrong but your posting style implicates as such that you are. But just in case, you might be interested in some questions below;

Would you prefer if your house went on a fire and one of the fire service personnel rocked up with a broken leg and with crutches?

How about sewer inspections? Getting into manholes and organizing a removal of a fatberg is easy, sure they have two legs!

Site visit inspections?

Litter wardens going to use a crutch around town and try get people to stop for them when caught littering?

Traffic wardens going to go all day on crutches?

Are any of the above going to be able to fill paperwork correctly and in a timely manor with broken arms?

Next you'll want each type of person having different sick leave allowances depending on the job but then moan that it's inefficient to have someone administer different types of sick leave.

I get it though, they are some people that take the absolute biscuit with sick leave, there really is. But you know what, the vast majority don't. You are just like others in this thread who will highlight the worse case scenario and say it applies equally across the board for all PS workers.

No we don't all earn €1,000k a week wages.
No we don't all take 8 days sick leave every year or 40 days a year.
No we don't all get lump sums of 100K / 200k or pension pots of 1.8million.

If we got the above, every person would be a public sector worker rather than a private sector worker. Funnily enough, a lot of people turn public jobs down because the pay is below what they can earn in the private sector starting out.

Nice rant, but only a small number of PS are firemen etc. Also in many instances they could be assigned desk duties.

AS I have stated I’ve had several broken limbs over the years. And managed to work through them. At no time was the medical advice not to work. Although I was asked if I would like not to have to work and that a sick very could be issued.

snoopboggybog · 07-06-2020 1:00pm

ted1 wrote: »

Nice rant, but only a small number of PS are firemen etc. Also in many instances they could be assigned desk duties.

AS I have stated I’ve had several broken limbs over the years. And managed to work through them. At no time was the medical advice not to work. Although I was asked if I would like not to have to work and that a sick very could be issued.

Do you want a medal or something? A lot of the time in the Public Sector its emotional stress that causes sick days.

Firemen, Gaurds, Hospital workers, Social Workers, Prison Officers, teachers etc.

Know a prison gaurd who was sliced numerous times with a shank across his back and head. Should he have returning to work the next day?

Or if a gaurd witnesses a crash and sees someone head detached from their body while trying to resucitate the children, should they go back to work next day?

ted1 · 07-06-2020 1:07pm

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Do you want a medal or something? A lot of the time in the Public Sector its emotional stress that causes sick days.

Firemen, Gaurds, Hospital workers, Social Workers, Prison Officers, teachers etc.

Know a prison gaurd who was sliced numerous times with a shank across his back and head. Should he have returning to work the next day?

Or if a gaurd witnesses a crash and sees someone head detached from their body while trying to resucitate the children, should they go back to work next day?

And how is stress related to a broken limb? Your comment is in no way related to anything I posted.

Gas..

FluffPiece · 07-06-2020 1:13pm

ted1 wrote: »

Nice rant, but only a small number of PS are firemen etc. Also in many instances they could be assigned desk duties.

Actually, most of the firemen that show up to your house are retained firefighters and are always on call. No desks for them to work at. If they are injured, they can't work. They've also got to live within a tight radius of the station they are based out of as speed is key in events of a fire. A limb might just hinder that aspect also.

But you'd know that if you researched a bit before bashing the entire public sector.

Any other part of my rant you want to pick through?

beauf · 07-06-2020 1:14pm

ted1 wrote: »

....
Plenty of amputees and wheelchair users in the work place...

Really? I bet if went down to any large shopping center I world struggle to find anyone in leg cast or a wheelchair working there.

Addle · 07-06-2020 1:15pm

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn’t answer the question why they could work. A doctor will gladly sign people off for various reasons. A broken leg goes in a cast, may or may need surgery. But once in a cast you just need crutches to move about. Hardly an issue stopping you from working.

Plenty of amputees and wheelchair users in the work place

I always thought it was something to do with insurance. Need to be signed off and on work.

beauf · 07-06-2020 1:23pm

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn’t answer the question why they could work. A doctor will gladly sign people off for various reasons. A broken leg goes in a cast, may or may need surgery. But once in a cast you just need crutches to move about. Hardly an issue stopping you from working.

Plenty of amputees and wheelchair users in the work place

Lots of injuries I've had have stopped me from working on sites.

I have also worked in an office with my leg in a cast. In hindsight it was completely dumb thing to do. My over riding memory was struggling to cross slippy surfaces in train stations on rainy days. Was as awkward as hell trying to sit at a desk or move around the office.

If you are full time in crutches or wheelchair you probably need adjustments to facilitate that.

beauf · 07-06-2020 1:28pm

dubrov wrote: »

It won't be long until someone comes along claiming that they have only taken a half day off sick in the last 10 years.
Even then, it was to get a triple bypass heart operation

...Or someone died and still came to work....

ted1 · 07-06-2020 1:34pm

FluffPiece wrote: »

Actually, most of the firemen that show up to your house are retained firefighters and are always on call. No desks for them to work at. If they are injured, they can't work. They've also got to live within a tight radius of the station they are based out of as speed is key in events of a fire. A limb might just hinder that aspect also.

But you'd know that if you researched a bit before bashing the entire public sector.

Any other part of my rant you want to pick through?

There’s only 2060 retained firemen in Ireland. That Represents an insignificant number of the PS. But hey if it suits your agenda to use them as as true representation, then go ahead.

snoopboggybog · 07-06-2020 1:42pm

ted1 wrote: »

There’s only 2060 retained firemen in Ireland. That Represents an insignificant number of the PS. But hey if it suits your agenda to use them as as true representation, then go ahead.

If you have an injury and get signed off by the doctor to be out of work then what is your issue?

Do you live for work or something? You seem to take pride in going to work when you had an injury.

Its kind of sad really. Do you know more than doctors now?

addaword · 07-06-2020 2:19pm

A friend of my son hurt his finger in his left hand slightly playing sport, he worked at a desk job in the civil service and got a sick cert and was off work for 6 weeks. Happy as Larry. Does this kind of thing still go on?

Tork · 07-06-2020 2:27pm

It does in your world. I bet he's on 100,000 a year too?

addaword · 07-06-2020 2:39pm

Tork wrote: »

I bet he's on 100,000 a year too?

I dunno what that lad was on, he was relatively young, I'd say only 30 or 40k a year at the time.

Addle · 07-06-2020 2:43pm

addaword wrote: »

A friend of my son hurt his finger in his left hand slightly playing sport, he worked at a desk job in the civil service and got a sick cert and was off work for 6 weeks. Happy as Larry. Does this kind of thing still go on?

That’s really a bad reflection on your sons friend, not a contentious employer.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 2:45pm

ted1 wrote: »

A public sector pension is a major plus. Much better off on one

Did you take the significantly reduced benefits that will be available to the OP under the new Single Pension Scheme in this analysis?

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 2:46pm

addaword wrote: »

A friend of my son hurt his finger in his left hand slightly playing sport, he worked at a desk job in the civil service and got a sick cert and was off work for 6 weeks. Happy as Larry. Does this kind of thing still go on?

This didn't happen, not in living memory. What doctor provided six weeks of absence certs for a hurt finger.

addaword · 07-06-2020 2:47pm

Addle wrote: »

That’s really a bad reflection on your sons friend, not a contentious employer.

A team mate in my sons football team as it happens. In most small businesses in the private sector someone would not take 6 weeks off for such a injury.

snoopboggybog · 07-06-2020 2:52pm

addaword wrote: »

A team mate in my sons football team as it happens. In most small businesses in the private sector someone would not take 6 weeks off for such a injury.

six weeks might be taking the piss, maybe not, but depending on the type of injury they can be one of the most painful.

Did he have to get an operation? If he needed six weeks off there's more to this than your letting on.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 3:01pm

addaword wrote: »

A team mate in my sons football team as it happens. In most small businesses in the private sector someone would not take 6 weeks off for such a injury.

Presumably, most people would take their doctor's advice. Why did the doctor sign six weeks of absence certificates for a slightly hurt finger?

Tork · 07-06-2020 3:03pm

Other than that it didn't happen.

Treppen · 07-06-2020 3:03pm

Can we get back the guy who was giving about about 'the cops' getting free coffee, he was funny.

History Queen · 07-06-2020 3:16pm

addaword wrote: »

A team mate in my sons football team as it happens. In most small businesses in the private sector someone would not take 6 weeks off for such a injury.

Bull. Like all of your posts. Never happened.

addaword · 07-06-2020 3:31pm

History Queen wrote: »

Bull. Like all of your posts. Never happened.

You are very naive. There would be a lot more abuse of sick pay in both the public and private sector than someone taking 6 weeks off with an injured finger.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 4:05pm

addaword wrote: »

You are very naive. There would be a lot more abuse of sick pay in both the public and private sector than someone taking 6 weeks off with an injured finger.

Do all of these abuses involve doctors writing absence certs for six weeks for hurt fingers?

beauf · 07-06-2020 4:05pm

addaword wrote: »

You are very naive. There would be a lot more abuse of sick pay in both the public and private sector than someone taking 6 weeks off with an injured finger.

Private sector Place I worked had no work for one team for at least 6-12 months. As their project fell through. They just sat around doing nothing. I guess all places are the same.

FluffPiece · 07-06-2020 4:08pm

ted1 wrote: »

There’s only 2060 retained firemen in Ireland. That Represents an insignificant number of the PS. But hey if it suits your agenda to use them as as true representation, then go ahead.

I've had to read such ****e as top 20 public sector salaries being used as average pay across the whole public sector as fact.

What about the litter wardens?

What about the traffic wardens?

What about the school wardens?

What about the site inspectors?

What about the waterworks caretakers?

Can they all work in casts long term?

Waiting for your answer still rather than your usual ignoring of facts.

You are completely full of **** and keep spreading it everywhere you go...

snoopboggybog · 07-06-2020 4:27pm

ted1 wrote: »

Nice rant, but only a small number of PS are firemen etc. Also in many instances they could be assigned desk duties.

AS I have stated I’ve had several broken limbs over the years. And managed to work through them. At no time was the medical advice not to work. Although I was asked if I would like not to have to work and that a sick very could be issued.

Can you send me your address so I can send you a medal?

addaword · 07-06-2020 4:27pm

FluffPiece wrote: »

I've had to read such ****e as top 20 public sector salaries being used as average pay across the whole public sector as fact.

What about the litter wardens?

What about the traffic wardens?

What about the school wardens?

What about the site inspectors?

What about the waterworks caretakers?.

I agree with you, in many cases the private sector is more educated / qualified, which makes it hard to understand why the public sector is paid so much more than the private sector in Ireland. In UK, Germany and France the 2 sectors are nearly paid the same.

History Queen · 07-06-2020 5:08pm

addaword wrote: »

You are very naive. There would be a lot more abuse of sick pay in both the public and private sector than someone taking 6 weeks off with an injured finger.

I'm not naive. I know bull**** whenI smell it. You amd you "friends " and "son's friends " . You don't know what you are talking about as proven again and again yet you return and spout your ignorance as fact even when others point out where you are wrong and why.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 5:29pm

addaword wrote: »

I agree with you, in many cases the private sector is more educated / qualified, which makes it hard to understand why the public sector is paid so much more than the private sector in Ireland. In UK, Germany and France the 2 sectors are nearly paid the same.

What exactly do you mean by 'in many cases, the private sector is more educated / qualified'?

Are you comparing individuals or at an aggregate level? Are you including the large numbers of minimum wage staff in retail and hospitality in your comparison?

Mrs OBumble · 07-06-2020 5:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This didn't happen, not in living memory. What doctor provided six weeks of absence certs for a hurt finger.

In 2008, I worked with a lad in a private sector job who had a bad finger injury in sport. He was off work for 2 months.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 5:55pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In 2008, I worked with a lad in a private sector job who had a bad finger injury in sport. He was off work for 2 months.

I guess the difference between 'a bad finger injury' and 'hurt his finger slightly' might be a factor there.

barneystinson · 07-06-2020 6:09pm

addaword wrote: »

A team mate in my sons football team as it happens. In most small businesses in the private sector someone would not take 6 weeks off for such a injury.

What has a small business in the private sector got to do with anything? Why / how did you decide that the suitable comparison working for the State (ie large, bureaucratic, highly unionised organisations) is a SME?

addaword · 07-06-2020 6:15pm

barneystinson wrote: »

What has a small business in the private sector got to do with anything? Why / how did you decide that the suitable comparison working for the State (ie large, bureaucratic, highly unionised organisations) is a SME?

If you look at the statistics, far more sickies are taken in the public sector than in the private sector. Some small and medium business are barely profitable at all and may have large debts and be in a competitive marketplace: if workers do not put their shoulder to the wheel it can be the difference between closing down or surviving. No such worries in the public sector.

Of course there are hard workers in the public sector and there are some lazy workers in the private sector too. Three quarters of the 2 million or so people in the private sector work in SMEs. More than a few find themselves out of work sometimes.

the_syco · 07-06-2020 6:29pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I think a major benefit is that you won't ever be laid off

Know of a public jobs department of 6 who were reassigned, as their previous job was no longer needed. So yes, you'll stay employed, but you will be moved to where you will be needed.

Also, you'll come across people that should be fired, but won't be. They'll be moved "promoted" from one place to another, gaining more power each time.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 10:01pm

addaword wrote: »

If you look at the statistics, far more sickies are taken in the public sector than in the private sector. Some small and medium business are barely profitable at all and may have large debts and be in a competitive marketplace: if workers do not put their shoulder to the wheel it can be the difference between closing down or surviving. No such worries in the public sector.

Of course there are hard workers in the public sector and there are some lazy workers in the private sector too. Three quarters of the 2 million or so people in the private sector work in SMEs. More than a few find themselves out of work sometimes.

If you look at the statistics, you'll find significant differences in how sick leave is counted in both public and private sectors that make those comparisons fairly meaningless. You'll also find that most people in the most hazardous occupations for illness - medics, nurses, hospital attendants, prison service, gardai are public sector, not private.

If you think a bit deeper about it, you might think that it's actually a good thing to find employers who support their staff through serious illness scenarios, and make sure they have a job to return to when they are ready.

addaword · 07-06-2020 10:29pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You'll also find that most people in the most hazardous occupations for illness - medics, nurses, hospital attendants, prison service, gardai are public sector, not private.

Two points
(A) as pointed out to you by others, doctors and pharmacists take far less sick days than public sector clerical workers
(B) professions such as flight attendants, farmers, construction workers, dentists, dental technicians , podiatrists, security staff, fishermen, tree surgeons, scaffolders , roofers, private sector nursing home staff, refuse collectors, are hazardous too ...maybe more hazardous than working in an office.

Yet in the survey 4 years ago it was found Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in the private sector, and other surveys are consistent with that.

It is a great thing as you say "to find employers who support their staff through serious illness scenarios, and make sure they have a job to return to when they are ready.". That is just one of the reasons I encouraged my kids to get jobs in the public sector, not the private sector.

AndrewJRenko · 07-06-2020 11:14pm

addaword wrote: »

Two points
(A) as pointed out to you by others, doctors and pharmacists take far less sick days than public sector clerical workers
(B) professions such as flight attendants, farmers, construction workers, dentists, dental technicians , podiatrists, security staff, fishermen, tree surgeons, scaffolders , roofers, private sector nursing home staff, refuse collectors, are hazardous too ...maybe more hazardous than working in an office.

Yet in the survey 4 years ago it was found Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in the private sector, and other surveys are consistent with that.

It is a great thing as you say "to find employers who support their staff through serious illness scenarios, and make sure they have a job to return to when they are ready.". That is just one of the reasons I encouraged my kids to get jobs in the public sector, not the private sector.

Is this another one of those posts where you make claims and refuse to show your sources? It really helps to understand those statistics if you look at how they count sick leave for a start.

addaword · 07-06-2020 11:19pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is this another one of those posts where you make claims and refuse to show your sources? .

Those of us who lived in Ireland and read the papers and listened to RTE over say the past 10 years would be aware of many such surveys on public sector versus private sector sick days. Are you really saying you are unaware of such common knowledge? Did you never learn to google?

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have stated the facts.

Public workers take on average almost twice as many sick days as private workers.

The number of sick days taken by Ireland's public servants is almost twice that taken by workers in the private sector according to new figures. Public servants average 8.5 sick days each year compared to 4.5 days in the private sector according to figures released by the Department of Public Expenditure.

Funny how they get sick so much more often isn't it?

Correct

snoopboggybog · 07-06-2020 11:26pm

addaword wrote: »

Those of us who lived in Ireland and read the papers and listened to RTE over say the past 10 years would be aware of many such surveys on public sector versus private sector sick days. Are you really saying you are unaware of such common knowledge? Did you never learn to google?

As pointed out time and time again there is going to be more sick days in the public service due to the professions. It also does need to be improved upon as well for jobs for people at desk professions..

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/here-is-the-average-amount-of-sick-leave-each-sector-in-the-civil-service-took-last-year-937390.html

History Queen · 07-06-2020 11:26pm

addaword wrote: »

Those of us who lived in Ireland and read the papers and listened to RTE over say the past 10 years would be aware of many such surveys on public sector versus private sector sick days. Are you really saying you are unaware of such common knowledge? Did you never learn to google?

Those of us with an iota of intelligence don't make assertions without credible evidence.

Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

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