Will you download the contact tracing app?

poff · 20-06-2020 7:09pm

Of course, there are problems as bluetooth was not invented to measure distance accurately in all environments. What I am wondering here is: an app has been developed in different countries and, I guess, everybody has the same problems. Collaboration might be sensible considering the costs. Is that an idea that is shared between all app developers and google and apple? Or is everybody playing with one's own toys trying to solve the problem?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-06-2020 7:33pm

poff wrote: »

Of course, there are problems as bluetooth was not invented to measure distance accurately in all environments. What I am wondering here is: an app has been developed in different countries and, I guess, everybody has the same problems. Collaboration might be sensible considering the costs. Is that an idea that is shared between all app developers and google and apple? Or is everybody playing with one's own toys trying to solve the problem?

The only easily workable routes are the same methods as more authoritarian states (some in Asia and Mid East) that use GPS along with BT for exact positions.

Alas not ideal for more modern states to track all it's subjects, all of the time. Some even issue passive tracking bracelets during any 2wk quarantine period.

Saying that, with the rise of IOT, BT beacons (BTLE), along with coming 5G on pretty much every single lampost (5-10yrs) public building and street furniture relays... it won't be long before an exact location triangulation facility can be acheived, even when user selects 'flight-mode'.

plodder · 20-06-2020 11:31pm

poff wrote: »

Of course, there are problems as bluetooth was not invented to measure distance accurately in all environments. What I am wondering here is: an app has been developed in different countries and, I guess, everybody has the same problems. Collaboration might be sensible considering the costs. Is that an idea that is shared between all app developers and google and apple? Or is everybody playing with one's own toys trying to solve the problem?

I think the complicated part of this is what Apple and google are providing. The apps shouldn't really be all that complicated (so long as the services provided by apple and google are working as expected). Each country is likely to have different requirements on the app apart from the basic contact tracing capability.

poff · 25-06-2020 5:42pm

Hahahaha

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1275787007730409472?s=19

poff · 25-06-2020 7:37pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0624/1149289-contract-tracing-app/

A log-in with username and password? Does that mean I have to register with the HSE? Seriously? Where is the privacy? I have no idea what kind of virus the people, who were deciding on the app's features, got infected with. Why would they risk excluding people who have privacy concerns? No open source, serious privacy issues - No, No, No. That's how I feel right now. I would not have those concerns with the German app as, I said this before, it only does what it is supposed to do - contact tracing. No registering, no statistics and it is open source. It is as private as it can possibly be. Even the Chaos Computer Club (in Germany well known) did not have any objections - they don't easily say that.

And due to the closed source, nobody knows what kind of bugs are in the software. That's on top of an app that ignores the privacy. Hint: if an app, that is so important in the fight of a virus, is not even safe to use due to many unsolved issues (I say this because the software can not be checked and verified by the open source community and due to serious privacy issues), how will it work as intended? Even if they find 60% of people who are willing to install such badly designed software, quite a proportion of these people will not be able to install the software as it only works on reasonably new phones, I think no older than 4 or 5 years. I have one of those phones but I have issues with what I know about the software.

The survey conducted by UL and NUIG found that 82% of Irish adults are willing to download a contact tracing app to their smartphone.

I would like to see that survey - yes/no question?

expectationlost · 26-06-2020 4:17pm

so heres the HSE press release if it hasn't been posted arleady https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/department-of-health-and-the-hse-today-announce-the-publication-of-the-covid-tracker-app-data-protection-impact-assessment-and-source-code1.html

poff · 26-06-2020 6:44pm

yes and https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-tracker-app/

A lot of reading. I think, I can take some of my reservations back - I gladly do

plodder · 29-06-2020 11:43am

I'm pretty sure you don't have to register to use it either.

Seems to be a form of user guide here

https://github.com/HSEIreland/covidtracker-documentation/blob/master/documentation/COVID%20Tracker%20App%20-%20Product%20Explainer_v1.0.pdf

poff · 29-06-2020 12:20pm

It does not look like having to register. The RTE article was very misleading showing a login screen.

plodder · 29-06-2020 12:54pm

poff wrote: »

It does not look like having to register. The RTE article was very misleading showing a login screen.

Yes, it's misleading and unhelpful. They were talking about the app on Newstalk the other day and did a Vox pop. One young person said she wouldn't download it because she didn't want to be "tracked". It will be a challenge to overcome these misconceptions.

fly_agaric · 29-06-2020 1:53pm

plodder wrote: »

They were talking about the app on Newstalk the other day and did a Vox pop. One young person said she wouldn't download it because she didn't want to be "tracked". It will be a challenge to overcome these misconceptions.

^^Very true.

There seems to me to be a suspicion about the state "knowing" things about citizens here & assumptions of the worst of motives that erupt every so often.
It is (IMO) easy to stoke up among the public.

It will be very unfortunate if that happens with this application. I think it could be a help controlling outbreaks of the virus & keeping us in a more "normal" situation later in the year/next year if it works as advertised and is widely adopted.

I just hope people will buy in/believe using it is worthwhile (as they obviously do with facebook, google etc which are collecting far more personal data about them every day in exchange for use of their services with barely a whimper).

poff · 29-06-2020 4:51pm

According to the published documentations, the app is not supposed to make identifiable data available to anybody. As the source code is available, I would be very surprised if it did not as promised. I don't think, the HSE could afford to be dishonest about the workings of the app. I am not easily convinced and like to give out if I suspect things not quite right...

The app is not using and can not use GPS as google and apple would not allow it. This is the tracking out of the way. If one has not to register, then there is no identification possible. They could use the IP address to see who you are but they (HSE/GOV) promised that the IP addresses are not stored. Phone numbers, if given, are stored until used for the sms code or the callback. If one wants a callback, one has not to worry about the HSE knowing the phone number as you gave it to them

. But even when you enter it into the app, it does not leave until your are suspected infected - if I remember correctly. And compared to facebook and the likes, the app is definitely safe.

I can not read the source code, I don't understand programming and neither I can verify that the app corresponds with the source code. I'll leave that to some professionals.

Did I change my mind about installing it? Most likely even I am not one of those who needs to use public transport. I keep thinking that I am ok but the reality is, that we all keep forgetting about the virus and I might be too close for too long one day. Then the app could help to keep others safe.

bloodless_coup · 01-07-2020 10:05am

https://www.newstalk.com/news/new-contact-tracing-app-cost-e850000-develop-1038851

€850,000 to develop. What a waste of money.

ExMachina1000 · 01-07-2020 10:17am

No I won't be downloading the app

poff · 01-07-2020 11:06am

bloodless_coup wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/new-contact-tracing-app-cost-e850000-develop-1038851

€850,000 to develop. What a waste of money.

Why a waste of money?

Gael23 · 02-07-2020 8:12am

No, huge invasion of privacy. Amazed it was approved by Data Protection

mirrormatrix · 02-07-2020 9:29am

Would you like to explain how a completely anonymised app is a "huge invasion of privacy"?

No-one, not the government, nor the people you come into contact with, get any of your personal information.

circadian · 02-07-2020 1:48pm

Gael23 wrote: »

No, huge invasion of privacy. Amazed it was approved by Data Protection

Feel free to give us your technical explanation of this. Source code is freely available on Github if you so wish to take a look.

poff · 02-07-2020 5:50pm

mirrormatrix, circadian,

I guess, neither you nor me will get an answer. Funny that posts get a thanks like this one:

No, huge invasion of privacy. Amazed it was approved by Data Protection

What for? There is no explanation whatsoever for a statement that is untrue. No point of thinking about this, it is a waste of energy

When is the app supposed to be released?

plodder · 02-07-2020 10:55pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No I won't be downloading the app

Why not, do you mind me asking?

Miike · 03-07-2020 4:21am

Gael23 wrote: »

No, huge invasion of privacy. Amazed it was approved by Data Protection

Care to expand on that point?

ExMachina1000 · 03-07-2020 6:59am

plodder wrote: »

Why not, do you mind me asking?

Sure no problem. I won't be downloading the app because I dont want to.

plodder · 03-07-2020 8:48am

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Would you like to explain how a completely anonymised app is a "huge invasion of privacy"?

No-one, not the government, nor the people you come into contact with, get any of your personal information.

Nor google or apple, it should be pointed out. People tend to assume that when google is collecting data on your device, they must be tracking you, but with this app, they are not.

fly_agaric · 03-07-2020 9:52am

plodder wrote: »

Nor google or apple, it should be pointed out. People tend to assume that when google is collecting data on your device, they must be tracking you, but with this app, they are not.

Yes, that is good, they appear to have developed api as a public service/charity effort in fairnesss to them.
Google have their Maps application (Apple have an equivalent) so don't need anything else when it comes to getting a good insight into where their users & customers go and what they get up to!

plodder · 04-07-2020 9:15am

I wonder what the delay is. It's been reported as ready to go for over a week now.

seligehgit · 06-07-2020 7:32pm

plodder wrote: »

I wonder what the delay is. It's been reported as ready to go for over a week now.

The app will launched tomorrow.

Great news.

ExMachina1000 · 06-07-2020 9:42pm

I have made the choice not to download the app.

Just heard both Michael Martin and Stephen Donnelly speaking on covid and other related issues.

Varadkar and Harris did it better

alentejo · 06-07-2020 10:03pm

Dont think I will download. Dont like the idea of centralized control of data

MickeyLeari · 06-07-2020 10:04pm

App is in the Apple App Store.

igCorcaigh · 06-07-2020 10:04pm

It seems that the Apple version of the app is not available for international users. Can't be used then by visitors?

XsApollo · 06-07-2020 10:07pm

What’s it called

Away With The Fairies · 06-07-2020 10:10pm

While I like the idea of the app, it's just an extra measure and they have been half arsed with everything else that they done around covid. So I don't see this working all that well.

rubberdungeon · 06-07-2020 10:11pm

XsApollo wrote: »

What’s it called

https://covidtracker.gov.ie/

igCorcaigh · 06-07-2020 10:11pm

XsApollo wrote: »

What’s it called

Covid tracker Ireland

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1280247575963197441?s=19

igCorcaigh · 06-07-2020 10:36pm

Just downloaded it for Android.
On the play store now.

Delta2113 · 06-07-2020 10:46pm

Can an Employer force you to download this even though it's supposed to be optional?

WoollyRedHat · 06-07-2020 10:53pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Can an Employer force you to download this even though it's supposed to be optional?

No how could they?

spookwoman · 06-07-2020 10:53pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Can an Employer force you to download this even though it's supposed to be optional?

Might be if its a business phone

06-07-2020 10:54pm

Just downloaded it but the contact tracing setup seems to be broken as you can’t do it.

Assetbacked · 06-07-2020 10:55pm

I downloaded it there (Android and Huawei phone so data protection concerns are minimal from me in general), I'm back heading into my office the last 3 weeks and also out and about in shops and pubs. As they say, the more that use it the more effective our tracing will be and it is part of an arsenal of measures which will ensure no lockdown is needed again.

igCorcaigh · 06-07-2020 10:55pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Just downloaded it but the contact tracing setup seems to be broken as you can’t do it.

Have you turned on Bluetooth?

spookwoman · 06-07-2020 10:56pm

Also if android the google play services need to be up to date

plodder · 06-07-2020 10:59pm

That's great, and good idea to spread the news by using the "share app" option which can post on facebook and possibly other social media platforms.

fly_agaric · 06-07-2020 11:00pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

It seems that the Apple version of the app is not available for international users. Can't be used then by visitors?

From what I've read, countries that are actively trying to control incomers are quarantining (enforced/monitored) and/or keeping most non-citizen travellers coming from certain countries out, not using voluntary apps to keep track of them. Relying on an a bluetooth phone application for that doesn't seem like the best approach to me (?), so not sure it would matter if they cannot install it.

Fitz* · 06-07-2020 11:00pm

Have just downloaded it there from the play store no bother.

Have no qualms about privacy or data in this sense because of what it is needed for.

06-07-2020 11:02pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Have you turned on Bluetooth?

I never turn it off. Asks for my number but even when I put it in it says it’s not set up on the tab at the bottom. When I try set up again it directs me to put in my number again. Just a loop of that.

spookwoman · 06-07-2020 11:03pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I never turn it off. Asks for my number but even when I put it in it says it’s not set up on the tab at the bottom. When I try set up again it directs me to put in my number again. Just a loop of that.

Restart phone

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 06-07-2020 11:08pm

iOS 14 dev beta, and it says that COVID-19 Exposure Logging is not available in my region when I go to settings.

_Puma_ · 06-07-2020 11:08pm

Had a look at the source code 2 weeks ago when they put it up on github. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Downloaded it this evening, simple and effective. No nonsense.

extra gravy · 06-07-2020 11:13pm

Gael23 wrote: »

No, huge invasion of privacy. Amazed it was approved by Data Protection

What exactly are you up to that's so private that you don't want to download an app that will help us in the fight against a pandemic?

Will you download the contact tracing app?

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