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The cruelty in ham, pork and bacon.

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2

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    #32
    HansKroenke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭HansKroenke


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    The really puzzling aspect of your post is why do you continue to buy products that are engineered to taste like dead pig?

    The majority of meat products are not ultra processed, beyond cutting with a knife, and in some cases adding a barbecue sauce .
    The "cruelty" aspect is a point of belief, a bit like transubstantiation to Christian's, or Angel's delivering a book to Josept Smith to Mormons.
    It's just a belief central to the value system of the group.

    Here is the simple answer to your question; because I like the taste of sausages and bacon but am not selfish and ignorant enough to pay for the slaughter of a pig to get the delicious tasting product.

    And the other part of your post is like some Trumpian level of sociopathic mental gymnastics to justify your position. A pig is reared and slaughtered just for you to be able to eat it. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify eating it, go ahead.


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    #33
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    The majority of meat products are not ultra processed, beyond cutting with a knife, and in some cases adding a barbecue sauce .

    F*cking lol. Never looked in a supermarket freezer then.
    What are the national dishes of Ireland? Chicken fillet rolls, jambons, chipper food. Nothing processed there at all.


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    #34
    carfinder
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭carfinder


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    F*cking lol. Never looked in a supermarket freezer then.
    What are the national dishes of Ireland? Chicken fillet rolls, jambons, chipper food. Nothing processed there at all.
    National dishes ...what an arrogant, smug, and self serving comment - but simply not true! Wholesome meals like Irish stew, Bacon and cabbage would be regarded as national dishes more like!


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    #35
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    F*cking lol. Never looked in a supermarket freezer then.
    What are the national dishes of Ireland? Chicken fillet rolls, jambons, chipper food. Nothing processed there at all.

    Often looked in a supermarket freezer, but never buy frozen meat!
    Why would you bother when the finest of fresh joints and cuts are right there in the chill cabinet?
    If you want to eat processed food like fish fingers and any of the various other offerings pumped full of salts, fats, stabilizers, colouring etc, then have at it.
    But don't try and pretend that the majority of the animal sold as such!


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    #36
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    HansKroenke wrote: »
    Here is the simple answer to your question; because I like the taste of sausages and bacon but am not selfish and ignorant enough to pay for the slaughter of a pig to get the delicious tasting product.

    And the other part of your post is like some Trumpian level of sociopathic mental gymnastics to justify your position. A pig is reared and slaughtered just for you to be able to eat it. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify eating it, go ahead.

    I don't need to pretend that there is any other reason there is meat on the plate, and need no one to offer me one.
    The belief by some extreme vegans that human life is worth no more than that of a farmyard animal ( or any animal, I suppose) is equally sociopathic in my book.


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    #37
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,224 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    huey1975 do not post in this thread again

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #38
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    anewme wrote: »
    Nice piece in the times about a farmer and his animals.

    Not sure if you can access it here- but it's on Facebook as well if anyone wants to read it.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/michael-harding-i-judge-a-farmer-s-character-by-how-he-treats-his-cattle-1.4473050

    Here's a nicer one: 73 cows
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2056423337&page=121


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    #39
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,224 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    A number of off topic posts have been deleted. Can we stick to the topic in the op which is the production of ham, pork and bacon.

    Posts removed were getting needlessly personal or engaging in whataboutery

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #40
    HansKroenke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭HansKroenke


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    I don't need to pretend that there is any other reason there is meat on the plate, and need no one to offer me one.
    The belief by some extreme vegans that human life is worth no more than that of a farmyard animal ( or any animal, I suppose) is equally sociopathic in my book.

    Yes, fully agree with you and there can be an apparent hierarchy of an animal's life over a human life for some extreme, vegan views.

    But in this particular case, with reference to my ultra-processed pork-like products, the trade-off is not a pig's life for a human life, instead it is just a pig's life for (to me anyway) a similar tasting, ultra-processed pork-like product!


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    #41
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Meeoow wrote: »
    So true. People want cheap food, and throw half of it into the bin. It breaks my heart to see people getting a big dinner, then binning half of it. Some poor animal had a sh1t life and death, to end up scraped into a bin.
    I am all for organic meat and would be willing to pay for it. I got a free range ham from M&S for Xmas, and it was far superior to the intensively farmed crap.
    Where do you sell your beef?

    Please don't accuse all folk like that. There is never food thrown away in this house. Not ever. Nor in many others I know.

    And for " people want cheap food" maybe instead" people need cheap food"

    Many of us on very low incomes, like myself, cannot afford much protein food like meat so yes we go for the least expensive. NB I have not eaten beef or lamb for decades but occasional bacon is very welcome . I suspect that the basic supermarket sausages I buy have almost no meat in them !


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    #42
    Meeoow
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭Meeoow


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Please don't accuse all folk like that. There is never food thrown away in this house. Not ever. Nor in many others I know.

    And for " people want cheap food" maybe instead" people need cheap food"

    Many of us on very low incomes, like myself, cannot afford much protein food like meat so yes we go for the least expensive. NB I have not eaten beef or lamb for decades but occasional bacon is very welcome . I suspect that the basic supermarket sausages I buy have almost no meat in them !

    I'm not accusing everyone of wasting food. Plenty of people don't waste food. Plenty of people do.
    Obviously, not everyone can afford organic meat, but I still stand by the statement that a lot of people want cheap food, same way a lot of people want cheap clothing. There can be an element of suffering in delivering cheap products that people choose to ignore.


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    #43
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Meeoow wrote: »
    I'm not accusing everyone of wasting food. Plenty of people don't waste food. Plenty of people do.
    Obviously, not everyone can afford organic meat, but I still stand by the statement that a lot of people want cheap food, same way a lot of people want cheap clothing. There can be an element of suffering in delivering cheap products that people choose to ignore.

    Disagreeing on this. The word " choose" is inappropriate. Many of us have no alternatives … so there is suffering for us ...and I would never judge anyone else's motives.

    Over and out on this. Makes me very sad though to read this.


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    #44
    Meeoow
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭Meeoow


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Disagreeing on this. The word " choose" is inappropriate. Many of us have no alternatives … so there is suffering for us ...and I would never judge anyone else's motives.

    Over and out on this. Makes me very sad though to read this.

    We can agree to disagree so!


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    #45
    HansKroenke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭HansKroenke


    If it is about protein then just eat a cheaper plant based source instead of poisoning yourself with cheap, processed meat. Lentils are amazing in almost any dish from curries to stews to shepherd's pies. Extremely high in fibre and protein and, importantly, cheap.


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    #46
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    anewme wrote: »
    I'll be honest here and say if I felt every farm operated like that, I would probably not have given up eating meat.

    I still eat eggs from a local with rescue hens.

    What scares me is the race to the bottom to sell a chicken at 2.99. What shortcuts were taken to get that product there?

    When I did eat Christmas Turkey, I supported a local free range bronze Turkey farmer. He told me he paid more for the chicks than an end product blast frozen in Brazil.

    I raised pasture fed chicken last year. A neighbour was interested in buying one until I told her what it cost me to rear and process it. People won't pay the true value.


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    #47
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    The really puzzling aspect of your post is why do you continue to buy products that are engineered to taste like dead pig?

    Because it tastes nice(?) There's no denying that; eating a plant-based alternative means that you can enjoy the same taste/texture, without the thoughts of the pigs sh*tting themselves with fear as they are pushed up the ramp to slaughtered.
    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    The majority of meat products are not ultra processed, beyond cutting with a knife, and in some cases adding a barbecue sauce .

    Given that this thread is discussing pork products specifically, this is fairly laughable statement - bacon and ham are full of all sorts nitrates and nitrites, which are really, really bad for human health. People should stop eating curing pork products for this reason, nevermind the ethical concerns.


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    #48
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    In the USA there have been calls for cancer warnings on some meat and poultry products

    https://cspinet.org/news/cancer-warning-label-urged-processed-meat-poultry-20161201


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    #49
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In the USA there have been calls for cancer warnings on some meat and poultry products

    https://cspinet.org/news/cancer-warning-label-urged-processed-meat-poultry-20161201

    Also on some plant based products.


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    #50
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Gary kk wrote: »
    Also on some plant based products.

    Tobacco yes


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    #51
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Tobacco yes

    Certain grains depending on how they are used. Than there is sugar and all the delights it brings.


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In the USA there have been calls for cancer warnings on some meat and poultry products

    https://cspinet.org/news/cancer-warning-label-urged-processed-meat-poultry-20161201

    Which has what to do with animal cruelty?


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    #53
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    carfinder wrote: »
    Bricktop in the movie Snatch had an interesting take on keeping pigs :pac:
    Or in the recent ZeroZeroZero series on TV, as an alternative to sleeping with the fishes

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #54
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Which has what to do with animal cruelty?

    A farmer a few posts ago was going on about overly processed foods like it's specific to non meat foods


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    #55
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Which has what to do with animal cruelty?

    It's yet another reason, on top of the cruelty that you mention, not to eat pigs.


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    #56
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    It's yet another reason, on top of the cruelty that you mention, not to eat pigs.

    Lol I think you missed his point


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    #57
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Gary kk wrote: »
    Lol I think you missed his point

    oh I see


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    #58
    65535
    Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭65535


    For me I saw recently how 'Ham' is pork but overly coloured to make it pink.
    That additive is added during 'production'.
    The WHO has marked that additive as carcinogenic for humans.
    We don't know what is (was) in our food

    https://youtu.be/nX1KUPZC3Ck


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    #59
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    65535 wrote: »
    For me I saw recently how 'Ham' is pork but overly coloured to make it pink.
    That additive is added during 'production'.
    The WHO has marked that additive as carcinogenic for humans.
    We don't know what is (was) in our food

    https://youtu.be/nX1KUPZC3Ck

    The video refers to sodium nitrite which is used a preservative and colour enhancer in certain foods.

    Decent article here

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/are-nitrates-and-nitrites-harmful#minimizing-exposure

    Not a huge fan of highly processed foods personally

    As for how healthy it is - Any food eaten in moderation is generally considered OK. The levels added to foodstuffs are set as values that ensure that a person consuming a typical diet would not exceed the Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) for these additives

    And I'm fairly sure we do know what is in our foods. Simply check the label.

    All foodstuffs:
    must comply with both the labelling provisions for food which is laid down in Regulation (EU) No. 1169/2011 as amended and with the more specific labelling for food additives as laid down in chapter IV of Regulation (EC) No. 1333/2008 on food additives. Regulation (EU) No. 1169/2011 requires the labelling of additives on all prepackaged foods


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    #60
    PainInTheArse
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭PainInTheArse


    Apparently, this is from a pig farm in Ireland.

    Sure it doesn't happen here, due to our high animal welfare.

    Warning, sad content



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    #61
    matt007
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭matt007


    The majority of pigs in Ireland are reared in pens on bare slatted flooring. #FACT
    The EU pigs directive is largely ignored. #FACT
    Nearly all pigs have clipped teeth and docked tails (Even in so called "higher welfare farms") #FACT
    They are nearly all gassed with co2, which is a very painfull death. #FACT

    #Facts is facts
    #Farms not factories
    #end pig pain

    *source: DAFM


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