Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Wanderer2010 · 10-04-2021 1:28pm

Well knock me down with a feather. It happened a year too late and clearly only after a huge amount of resistance, but tourists from USA will now have to quarantine when coming to Ireland. Im guessing they will still get the kid glove treatment in quarantine, maybe even an apologetic phone call from Coveney and a plea not to pull any multi nationals from the country!

carveone · 10-04-2021 1:52pm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Big test case this

Yes, it'll be interesting to see what happens and how it is argued. The whole "this isn't unconstitutional" argument is predicated on a proportional response to an imminent health risk. If the State can't show that their response was justified - and their removal of Israel is practically an admittance that it isn't - then they'll lose. On the other hand, the Health Act gives the Minister pretty broad powers, so we'll see.

The State seems to be arguing that quarantine "is triggered by a voluntary action". Yeah but no but. This might fail if noone knows about it in time. Sure, some people in Ireland know which countries are on the list but if the list is changing weekly on a few days notice, then that's a bit of a problem. If you are moving country the State can hardly argue that flying to Ireland is purely voluntary when the alternative is cancelling your flights, having no job, no income and living in a box.

If noone knows what the rules are going to be from one week to the next, that generates uncertainty. Noone likes uncertainty.

10-04-2021 2:15pm

josip wrote: »

This didn't age well.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0410/1208993-quarantine-detention-inquiry/

I think it aged fine. She isn't in a detention centre.

UDAWINNER · 10-04-2021 2:39pm

Are the US Troops coming in to Shannon, exempt from this. Hope not

francogarbanzo · 10-04-2021 2:44pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Well knock me down with a feather. It happened a year too late and clearly only after a huge amount of resistance, but tourists from USA will now have to quarantine when coming to Ireland. Im guessing they will still get the kid glove treatment in quarantine, maybe even an apologetic phone call from Coveney and a plea not to pull any multi nationals from the country!

What tourists have been coming here?

My wife is having our first baby in the next few months and this likely means my fully vaccinated parents won’t be able to be here for the birth their first grandchild. This is a terrible policy, and a year too late.

NSAman · 10-04-2021 2:48pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

I somewhat suspect agenda of those criticising the holes or inconsistencies + expect they are people who argued against restrictions (on travel or other civil liberties) during entirity of pandemic to date as undemocratic, authoritarian overreach, an assault on our rights and freedoms etc.

Then you are an idiot.

Most Irish people I know have been planning on how to see family for over a year and a half.

I am in my house, going to the shops once a week. Not one person outside ofherself has been in this house. When we we’re able to get vaccinated we went immediately. We know it takes 2 to 4 weeks for effectivenesss to kick in. We still carry out all the hygiene controls. We know we have to be careful, for ourselves as well as everyone else. We could travel in the US but have chosen NOT to. It has cost me business by not travelling but hey my family especially my elderly mother are worth that.

So now, with this stupid MHQ, we are both vaccinated, negative, have our own place to quarantine in Ireland and STILL have to go to a hotel?

Despite us (and everyone I know in the same situation) playing by the rules, they are now saying they cannot trust us to quarantine ourselves properly?

You can’t make this crap up.

I know this will end and we will be able to see our families again, but Jesus talk about a bunch of muppets being reactionary!

This MHQ is too late, it should have been done a year ago....

So how does that fit your ridiculous narrative?

faceman · 10-04-2021 3:15pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it aged fine. She isn't in a detention centre.

Um...

RT&#201 wrote: »

The court agreed to hold the inquiry on Monday after lawyers for the Minister for Health conceded for the purposes of this case that the woman is in detention.

Happydays2020 · 10-04-2021 3:20pm

faceman wrote: »

Um...

Indeed. The Mountjoy Arms hotel and recreation centre has a nice ring to it. Spike Island was a spa retreat, and Portlaoise is a retirement village.

10-04-2021 3:29pm

faceman wrote: »

Um...

And? She's in a hotel.

You guys will be calling them concentration camps soon. And my position will be the same as it's been for years.. If you don't want to be held for processing, don't go.

Away With The Fairies · 10-04-2021 3:29pm

NSAman wrote: »

Then you are an idiot.

Most Irish people I know have been planning on how to see family for over a year and a half.

I am in my house, going to the shops once a week. Not one person outside ofherself has been in this house. When we we’re able to get vaccinated we went immediately. We know it takes 2 to 4 weeks for effectivenesss to kick in. We still carry out all the hygiene controls. We know we have to be careful, for ourselves as well as everyone else. We could travel in the US but have chosen NOT to. It has cost me business by not travelling but hey my family especially my elderly mother are worth that.

So now, with this stupid MHQ, we are both vaccinated, negative, have our own place to quarantine in Ireland and STILL have to go to a hotel?

Despite us (and everyone I know in the same situation) playing by the rules, they are now saying they cannot trust us to quarantine ourselves properly?

You can’t make this crap up.

I know this will end and we will be able to see our families again, but Jesus talk about a bunch of muppets being reactionary!

This MHQ is too late, it should have been done a year ago....

So how does that fit your ridiculous narrative?

How many idiots came here and didn't quarantine at home? Went off to meet up with family and friends. It's these stupid idiots that ruin it for everyone else.

NSAman · 10-04-2021 3:31pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How many idiots came here and didn't quarantine at home? Went off to meet up with family and friends. It's these stupid idiots that ruin it for everyone else.

For all the idiots.. there are people who do have sense..

How about us Irish in America just organise three full flights home at the one time..:)

Corholio · 10-04-2021 3:35pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How many idiots came here and didn't quarantine at home? Went off to meet up with family and friends. It's these stupid idiots that ruin it for everyone else.

How many idiots that are already here didn't quarantine at home? Went off to meet up with family and friends. It's these stupid idiots that ruin it for everyone else.

Away With The Fairies · 10-04-2021 3:39pm

Corholio wrote: »

How many idiots that are already here didn't quarantine at home? Went off to meet up with family and friends. It's these stupid idiots that ruin it for everyone else.

I agree with this as well. Can we use some tracking device on these idiots?

fly_agaric · 10-04-2021 3:43pm

NSAman wrote: »

Then you are an idiot.

Most Irish people I know have been planning on how to see family for over a year and a half.

I am in my house, going to the shops once a week. Not one person outside ofherself has been in this house. When we we’re able to get vaccinated we went immediately. We know it takes 2 to 4 weeks for effectivenesss to kick in. We still carry out all the hygiene controls. We know we have to be careful, for ourselves as well as everyone else. We could travel in the US but have chosen NOT to. It has cost me business by not travelling but hey my family especially my elderly mother are worth that.

So now, with this stupid MHQ, we are both vaccinated, negative, have our own place to quarantine in Ireland and STILL have to go to a hotel?

Despite us (and everyone I know in the same situation) playing by the rules, they are now saying they cannot trust us to quarantine ourselves properly?

You can’t make this crap up.

I know this will end and we will be able to see our families again, but Jesus talk about a bunch of muppets being reactionary!

This MHQ is too late, it should have been done a year ago....

So how does that fit your ridiculous narrative?

I don't give much of a f-ck what you did or did not do over in the US + how you did everything right during the pandemic + would no doubt continue that when you arrive here.

Yes, it was very stupid and weak of this country and our leaders/politicians to expect edit:(i.e. trust) all travellers coming in here to "isolate" or "restrict movements" during the pandemic unless they are actually forced to do that somehow.

I think if some other places in Europe that were quite cautious and reacted strongly in how they dealt with the pandemic (i.e. likes of Germany - not our neighbour UK) had our natural advantages in this regard (can control most points of entry other than single land border with NI) they would have brought in such quarantine systems during last summer while in lockdown with the numbers going down.

The govt. here are correcting that mistake to an extent and trying to act in accordance with what Irelands' public health experts advised them to do since April/May last year (when they rejected it out of hand out of fear + inertia instead) and what these fellow "idiots" are still advising them to do as far as I am aware.

It may be late in the day now and hopefully can be gotten rid of quite soon (or at least scaled down), but people on thread are talking as if the mere fact of the development and production of working vaccines means we're all immune now (or soon will be) and this is over already. It is not.

Things look good, and maybe it is pretty much over for 1 country (Israel) and some micro-states where they can vaccinate everyone in a day or a week, but for most of us there is a bit to go yet, even as regards a country like the US with plenty of vaccine for all who want a shot thanks to the hoarding/"America first" policies of Trump.

NSAman · 10-04-2021 3:44pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I agree with this as well. Can we use some tracking device on these idiots?

Thought that’s what the tracing app was meant to do, along with no one checking on people quarantining.... systemic system muppetry in Ireland, no one checking people are where they are supposed to be.

Too many idiots, agreed, and a total lack of self accountability by people at home and those idiots who think everyone wants to see them immediately once off a plane...to show what a success they are abroad.

NSAman · 10-04-2021 3:44pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

I don't give much of a f-ck what you did or did not do over in the US + how you did everything right during the pandemic + would no doubt continue that when you arrive here.

Yes, it was very stupid and weak of this country and our leaders to expect all travellers coming in here to "isolate" or "restrict movements" during the pandemic unless they are actually forced to do that somehow.

I think if some other places in Europe that were quite cautious and reacted strongly in how they dealt with the pandemic (i.e. likes of Germany - not our neighbour UK) had our natural advantages in this regard (can control most points of entry other than single land border with NI) they would have brought in such quarantine systems during last summer while in lockdown with the numbers going down.

The govt. here are correcting that mistake to an extent and trying to act in accordance with what Irelands' public health experts advised them to do since April/May last year (when they rejected it out of hand out of fear + inertia instead) and what these fellow "idiots" are still advising them to do as far as I am aware.

It may be late in the day now and hopefully can be gotten rid of quite soon, but people on thread are talking as if the mere fact of the development and production of working vaccines means we're all immune now (or soon will be) and this is over already. It is not.

Things look good, and maybe it is pretty much over for 1 country (Israel) and some micro-states where they can vaccinate everyone in a day but for most of us there is a bit to go yet, even as regards a country like the US with plenty of vaccine for all who want a shot thanks to the hoarding/"America first" policies of Trump.

Oh so you agree ...

faceman · 10-04-2021 3:46pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And? She's in a hotel.

You guys will be calling them concentration camps soon. And my position will be the same as it's been for years..

Not sure who you are referring to as “you guys”. I’ve certainly never used Holocaust metaphors to refer to them, neither have most posters. Holocaust metaphors are unacceptable

I have frequently referred to the “hotels” as detention centres which, per the legal team for the minister of health today, is a fair description. I’ve used MHQ in most recent posts because it’s a shorter acronym.

wrote:

If you don't want to be held for processing, don't go.

This statement shows a level of a naivety that highlights a lack of public understanding in relation to what is happening. While it’s fair to say that while we do have a level of people travelling purely on tourism grounds who shouldn’t be at present, there are many essential reasons for travel that can’t be ignored. Already we are seeing people denied access to sick or dying family members, funerals missed etc.

fly_agaric · 10-04-2021 3:52pm

NSAman wrote: »

Oh so you agree ...

I agree with one phrase (it should have been done a year ago).

I don't agree that as a result of how slow they were, there is no point doing anything at all about it now.

I do hope the end is coming, but if not they (we) may need it and (imo) its better if they have something set up and running + legislation problems and kinks are worked out (as would have happened if they'd set this up last year as advised to).

NSAman · 10-04-2021 3:57pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

I agree with one phrase (it should have been done a year ago).

I don't agree that as a result of how slow they were, there is no point doing anything at all about it now.

I do hope the end is coming, but if not they (we) may need it and its better if they have something set up and running + legislation problems and kinks are worked out (as would have happened if they'd set this up last year as advised to).

So basically we all agree too fecking late as usual.

It still takes personal responsibility by EVERYONE to get this done.

10-04-2021 3:59pm

faceman wrote: »

Not sure who you are referring to as “you guys”. I’ve certainly never used Holocaust metaphors to refer to them, neither have most posters. Holocaust metaphors are unacceptable

I have frequently referred to the “hotels” as detention centres which, per the legal team for the minister of health today, is a fair description. I’ve used MHQ in most recent posts because it’s a shorter acronym.

This statement shows a level of a naivety that highlights a lack of public understanding in relation to what is happening. While it’s fair to say that while we do have a level of people travelling purely on tourism grounds who shouldn’t be at present, there are many essential reasons for travel that can’t be ignored. Already we are seeing people denied access to sick or dying family members, funerals missed etc.

I'm not that naive really. I haven't seen my parents in years after two cancelled trips last year. One where my Dad was going to come to Vietnam, and one where I was visiting home. If something happens, I can't go home, because of quarantine there, and not being able to get into Vietnam again for God knows how long. A funeral isn't worth being away from my entire support network for months when it's most needed.

I feel the pressure and worry of these quarantines / bans even if my life day to day is unaffected by Covid. My interest in Covid boils down to my fear that my parents get it, and my opinion is that lessening the risk of them dying from it is more important than me being able to go to their funeral.

fly_agaric · 10-04-2021 4:09pm

NSAman wrote: »

So basically we all agree too fecking late as usual.

It still takes personal responsibility by EVERYONE to get this done.

Okay, I agree.
Unfortunately the "everyone" bit is where it all fell apart in so many areas incl. travel. I think the personally responsible would be the majority everywhere. It's necessary but not sufficient I suppose.

VeryWise · 10-04-2021 4:13pm

It makes no sense, if I get tested and have COVID, even some new variant, I am trusted to isolate. If I am a close contact of a case I probably won’t be contacted as track and trace is under resourced. But if I am vaccinated, have a negative test but land from one of the named countries I need to be locked up for two weeks.

We could do mass fast antigen testing of almost everyone and screen out a ton of cases, we could encourage sport and Vitamin D, we could contact trace. But no we go for this nonsense approach that will distract from the terrible vaccine roll out, missed early health development and cancer screenings. Issues that cost lives are ignored and this MHQ is just a big PR exercise with no stated targets or objectives.

Also if the aim is to stop variants then anything less than full quarantine for ALL travellers including those from NI is needed. We have essentially spent all our money on half a car, it’s expensive, looks awful and does nothing useful.

beggars_bush · 10-04-2021 4:28pm

VeryWise wrote: »

It makes no sense, if I get tested and have COVID, even some new variant, I am trusted to isolate. If I am a close contact of a case I probably won’t be contacted as track and trace is under resourced. But if I am vaccinated, have a negative test but land from one of the named countries I need to be locked up for two weeks.

We could do mass fast antigen testing of almost everyone and screen out a ton of cases, we could encourage sport and Vitamin D, we could contact trace. But no we go for this nonsense approach that will distract from the terrible vaccine roll out, missed early health development and cancer screenings. Issues that cost lives are ignored and this MHQ is just a big PR exercise with no stated targets or objectives.

Also if the aim is to stop variants then anything less than full quarantine for ALL travellers including those from NI is needed. We have essentially spent all our money on half a car, it’s expensive, looks awful and does nothing useful.

There are criminals online selling fake vaccination certs and negative test reports

Agreed about NI, but apparently we cannot actually admit that is a different jurisdiction

CruelSummer · 10-04-2021 4:52pm

What has the Government or NPHET done to help encourage tourism to resume?
What happens when the EU, US and U.K reopen to vaccinated travellers or those with certs?

Mandatory Hotel Quarantine should never have been introduced and especially not at this late stage.
Where is the public consultation on the criteria being used to slap countries on the quarantine list?
What or who has the economic figures to demonstrate the massive economic fallout from this? Who pays for this fallout on top of the billions in debt we've already accumulated and have no help from EU in paying back. Not to mention Biden is also looking at heavily taxing multinational corporations here.
How will the Irish tourist industry survive if we're currently locking away our country from the rest of the world? A few weeks in July and August of domestic tourism isn't enough to sustain them. Why was the Quarantine brought in without an exit strategy? Who decided not to include vaccinated individuals as exempt from these measures? Why on Earth is there a nurse from Israel in quarantine, when she's fully vaccinated and we're crying out for nurses in this country?

And I don't want to hear the word 'variant' in the replies. All vaccines in use in the EU work against all variants so this argument makes no sense.

Feria40 · 10-04-2021 4:56pm

CruelSummer wrote: »

What has the Government or NPHET done to help encourage tourism to resume?
What happens when the EU, US and U.K reopen to vaccinated travellers or those with certs?

Mandatory Hotel Quarantine should never have been introduced and especially not at this late stage.
Where is the public consultation on the criteria being used to slap countries on the quarantine list?
What or who has the economic figures to demonstrate the massive economic fallout from this? Who pays for this fallout on top of the billions in debt we've already accumulated and have no help from EU in paying back. Not to mention Biden is also looking at heavily taxing multinational corporations here.
How will the Irish tourist industry survive if we're currently locking away our country from the rest of the world? A few weeks in July and August of domestic tourism isn't enough to sustain them. Why was the Quarantine brought in without an exit strategy? Who decided not to include vaccinated individuals as exempt from these measures? Why on Earth is there a nurse from Israel in quarantine, when she's fully vaccinated and we're crying out for nurses in this country?

And I don't want to hear the word 'variant' in the replies. All vaccines in use in the EU work against all variants so this argument makes no sense.

Very apt username

saabsaab · 10-04-2021 7:00pm

Variants the great unknown.

Diarmuid · 10-04-2021 7:17pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Variants the great unknown.

You're going to have to hide away for the next few years.

There are 8bn people alive. At the end of this year ,at best, 1bn will have been vaccinate. That means the virus will be mutating among the vast majority of the world population for years generating many more variants

What's your plan to manage "the variants"?

10-04-2021 7:31pm

Diarmuid wrote: »

You're going to have to hide away for the next few years.

There are 8bn people alive. At the end of this year ,at best, 1bn will have been vaccinate. That means the virus will be mutating among the vast majority of the world population for years generating many more variants

What's your plan to manage "the variants"?

I'd imagine most developed or developing countries outside of the EU,US Israel and India or similar will get up to the same high numbers vaccinated once production continues to ramp up
Meantime vaccine passports,rapid testing and mhq for less vaccinated countries will be in the mix to keep those variants out
Its all pointing that way
The beaches of Spain Greece,the Carribean or Florida arent too many months away from being safe
But not yet

10-04-2021 7:45pm

Marine Layer wrote: »

I'd imagine most developed or developing countries outside of the EU,US Israel and India or similar will get up to the same high numbers vaccinated once production continues to ramp up
Meantime vaccine passports,rapid testing and mhq for less vaccinated countries will be in the mix to keep those variants out
Its all pointing that way
The beaches of Spain Greece,the Carribean or Florida arent too many months away from being safe
But not yet

Spain has imposed fresh lockdowns. You cant even leave your town in some cases

faceman · 10-04-2021 9:26pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Spain has imposed fresh lockdowns. You cant even leave your town in some cases

Restrictions were either added or enhanced for Easter across Spain. Cases are rising but centre 3 regions including Madrid.

Valencia region on the other hand has the lowest rates in Europe.

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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