Time to bring back hanging?

salmocab · 17-04-2019 12:35pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

We're not backward savage animals.

I am

Mr. CooL ICE · 17-04-2019 12:35pm

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I'd prefer to bring back haggling

I'd normally charge 50 to bring back haggling but for you, my friend, can have it for 40

Church on Tuesday · 17-04-2019 12:39pm

A life long jail sentence, with only basic resources (no Playsation nonsense), humane treatment (access to health services etc) and hard menial labour.

For those not physically strong for such labour, work should consist of menial tasks.

Classes once a week for educational opportunities in the evening after tasks are complete.

Like it or not, prisoners have it too good in prison in the main; it should be a place you dread to go too, otherwise what's the point?

weldoninhio · 17-04-2019 12:40pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No, as it's usually the poor or disadvantaged that end up facing the death penalty. The demographic of death row in the states is an eye opener.

Who cares who they are?? If they do the crime let them swing.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2019 12:42pm

RobertKK wrote: »

No.

The death penalty is illegal in the EU and the Council of Europe.
The death penalty was fine when there were insecure prisons, we have the means to keep people who need to be locked up, locked up.

To bring back the death penalty would mean leaving the EU and the much broader council of Europe. It would be a most backward step for Ireland.

That God we have secure prisons nowadays and no scrotes with 200+ convictions roaming the streets. :rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths · 17-04-2019 12:42pm

weldoninhio wrote:

Who cares who they are?? If they do the crime let them swing.

And if they didn't? Does soz make everything ok?

weldoninhio · 17-04-2019 12:43pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

And if they didn't? Does soz make everything ok?

Want a hand with those goalposts?? :rolleyes:

RobertKK · 17-04-2019 12:43pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

That God we have secure prisons nowadays and no scrotes with 200+ convictions roaming the streets. :rolleyes:

That is not the fault of having secure prisons, it is a failure of the justice system.

Danzy · 17-04-2019 12:45pm

I wouldn't trust the Guards enough with that ultimate sanction.

It is the sizable minority of them that are pure corrupt that would abuse it.

dudara · 17-04-2019 12:48pm

I don’t believe governments/courts should have the right to take life. So it’s a no from me.

BTW - those are ridiculous poll options.

Plumbthedepths · 17-04-2019 12:53pm

weldoninhio wrote:

Want a hand with those goalposts??

Not at all but the fact that innocent people have gone to the gallows is a reason not to have a death penalty.

Say Your Number · 17-04-2019 12:55pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us

Mr. teddywinkles · 17-04-2019 1:13pm

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Death is to easy for some of the worst scum.
I have an alternative. Torture. Cut of all there limbs and there eyes. But take time doing it. Leave the ears. Play Barney all the time.
This way they would be easy to maintain. Just feed them through a tube. Would require small spaces as well.

I'd hate to encounter the person assigned to carry out this procedure. Be worse than the person there carving up.

Mr. teddywinkles · 17-04-2019 1:16pm

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Death is to easy for some of the worst scum.
I have an alternative. Torture. Cut of all there limbs and there eyes. But take time doing it. Leave the ears. Play Barney all the time.
This way they would be easy to maintain. Just feed them through a tube. Would require small spaces as well.

The person carrying out this would be more mentally unstable than the person that it's done to

marieholmfan · 17-04-2019 1:18pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I'd hate to encounter the person assigned to carry out this procedure. Be worse than the person there carving up.

I'd say you could sell the right to do it! :P

El Weirdo · 17-04-2019 1:23pm

Danzy wrote: »

I wouldn't trust the Guards enough with that ultimate sanction.

It is the sizable minority of them that are pure corrupt that would abuse it.

Do you even know how the justice system works in this country?

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I'd hate to encounter the person assigned to carry out this procedure. Be worse than the person there carving up.

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

The person carrying out this would be more mentally unstable than the person that it's done to

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'd say you could sell the right to do it! :P

The prosecution rests, your honour.

randd1 · 17-04-2019 1:30pm

Death penalty only for mass murderers, serial killers or contract killers. No hanging, just lethal injection. Guilt would have to be proven beyond doubt. You'd have to wait 5 years for the sentence to be carried out, during which an independent review team would have to review the case to see if a death sentence is merited along guidelines in respect to the severity and nature of the crimes.

To be perfectly honest, I think there should only be remission on sentences if the prisoner willingly engages in a works programme (like the chain gangs) to pay back society.

Fifty grades of shay. · 17-04-2019 1:33pm

I'd say we all say at some stage that hanging is, too good for someone.
It's interesting to note the poll options too, paedophiles get the number one spot.
But I'd say if there's was a lad or lassie about to be hanged then the country would be very protestive of it.
There are more humane ways to have a death penalty too, could have been an option.
But I just think the death penalty is to severe for any crime.

Your Face · 17-04-2019 1:37pm

topper75 wrote: »

OK - sounds like a reasonable fear.

To what end though do we keep say, an extreme case like an unrepentant multiple child murderer, alive on taxpayer funds indefinitely until they die naturally many years hence in a cell? I can't see what exactly that is supposed to achieve. If they can't be rehabilitated and we are never letting them out, why use up tax payer funds keeping them alive in a cell, potentially for decades?

To keep them away from everyone else.

Our taxes are spent on a lot of nonsense, so using it to keep a "unrepentant multiple child murderer" away from society is relatively good value.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2019 1:37pm

Danzy wrote: »

I wouldn't trust the Guards enough with that ultimate sanction.

It is the sizable minority of them that are pure corrupt that would abuse it.

Guards don't sentence anybody.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2019 1:38pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not at all but the fact that innocent people have gone to the gallows is a reason not to have a death penalty.

Make it for people who have 50+ convictions. You would wanna be fierce unlucky to accrue that many while innicent.

seamus · 17-04-2019 1:51pm

Death penalty only allowed if the lawmakers who vote in favour of it are the ones who have to push the button/pull the lever, and they have to do it while standing in front of - and facing - the convict's family. No sunglasses or masks allowed.

If the convict is ever exonerated, the law requires that the executioner is executed as penance for his mistake.

Or they can choose to commute the sentence to life imprisonment instead.

17-04-2019 1:56pm

The stupidity of the "bring back capital punishment" argument. It's just so many shades of counterproductive stupidity.

Lynched/Hanged, 1955: 14-year-old Emmet Till. If you haven't familiarised yourself with what happened to him and his murderers, you can start here

Lynched/Hanged, 1981: 19-year-old Michael Donald

People are thinking 'but they were illegal'. The point is that the legal forms of the above are really not much better. In the vast majority of cases they are hugely counterproductive. Often, the offender prefers to die than be incarcerated so ironically it's often more persecution for the offender to be kept alive.

Then there are the very, very many wrongful convictions, which is the outstanding reason why capital punishment is morally indefensible. We who followed the Birmingham Six case in detail in the late 80s/early 1990s will remember how the pressures on the police, and on the forensic scientist Frank Skuse, resulted in innocent people being framed for crimes they didn't commit. In pre-ban on capital punishment times they would all have been executed. Instead, 16-17 years later they were declared innocent. RTÉ had a riveting historical series a few years tracing Irish people who were hanged, and they concluded that many of them were probably innocent scapegoats (but always poor and marginalised, obviously).

There are far, far, far too many innocent people executed in all societies where the death penalty remains legal. If you have the money to buy a good legal team, you are much, much more likely not to be executed in the US. Guess what happens the poor black kids without that money? Capital punishment is riddled with class (and in the US race) prejudices. That is an indisputable fact. People who claim being against the death penalty is merely "political correctness" are very silly people indeed.

El_Bee · 17-04-2019 2:14pm

We wouldn't have many individuals who are simply too dangerous to be ever reintroduced to society, and it's not like we have much a functional judical system to begin with when you think about cases like that guy who strangled a child and got out after 3 years I think we need to focus on tightening up our sentencing procedures first.

marieholmfan · 17-04-2019 2:17pm

Not sure of the relevance of murder to capital punishment.
People die every day.
Why should paedophiles be any different?

Deleted User wrote: »

The stupidity of the "bring back capital punishment" argument. It's just so many shades of counterproductive stupidity.

Lynched/Hanged, 1955: 14-year-old Emmet Till. If you haven't familiarised yourself with what happened to him and his murderers, you can start here

Lynched/Hanged, 1981: 19-year-old Michael Donald

People are thinking 'but they were illegal'. The point is that the legal forms of the above are really not much better. In the vast majority of cases they are hugely counterproductive. Often, the offender prefers to die than be incarcerated so ironically it's often more persecution for the offender to be kept alive.

Then there are the very, very many wrongful convictions, which is the outstanding reason why capital punishment is morally indefensible. We who followed the Birmingham Six case in detail in the late 80s/early 1990s will remember how the pressures on the police, and on the forensic scientist Frank Skuse, resulted in innocent people being framed for crimes they didn't commit. In pre-ban on capital punishment times they would all have been executed. Instead, 16-17 years later they were declared innocent. RTÉ had a riveting historical series a few years tracing Irish people who were hanged, and they concluded that many of them were probably innocent scapegoats (but always poor and marginalised, obviously).

There are far, far, far too many innocent people executed in all societies where the death penalty remains legal. If you have the money to buy a good legal team, you are much, much more likely not to be executed in the US. Guess what happens the poor black kids without that money? Capital punishment is riddled with class (and in the US race) prejudices. That is an indisputable fact. People who claim being against the death penalty is merely "political correctness" are very silly people indeed.

whisky_galore · 17-04-2019 2:22pm

Poll heading is bollocks.

Gimme A Pound · 17-04-2019 2:24pm

Having looked at the poll, clearly a parody thread.

With regard to capital punishment though, hard for me to decide. Objectively, the state having the power to end a life is something more befitting societies we do not want to be emulating.

But then when I hear of some child killer piece of sh1t getting the chair or lethal injection in the U.S., it pleases me greatly.

Boom_Bap · 17-04-2019 2:27pm

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

I'd normally charge 50 to bring back haggling but for you, my friend, can have it for 40

What about 30 and this bag of seedless grapes?

Plumbthedepths · 17-04-2019 2:35pm

weldoninhio wrote:

Make it for people who have 50+ convictions. You would wanna be fierce unlucky to accrue that many while innicent.

Happily capital punishment will never be on the statue books in this country again. So enjoy the nonsense.

topper75 · 17-04-2019 2:49pm

If we are against capital punishment (which BTW has nothing to do with the extra-judicially murdered Emmett Till whatsoever Fuaranach) then how to we justify locking up people for life. What does it achieve? Is it merely cowardliness on the part of our society? We wait for decades at great expense for 'nature' to do anyway what we should have done?

I find it odd this belief that, though we believe murder to be wrong, we think that the right to life cannot be forfeit, and that a murderer gets to live on utterly disregarding anything they may have done. What is the ethical basis for this principle?

I might be picking at scabs here or risking a derailment - but worth mentioning to those of an overly liberal persuasion that our law as it stands can see an unborn child forfeit their lives if they are deemed inconvenient to a parent (with no transgression committed) whereas a murderer, even an unrepentant multiple murderer, has a right to life enshrined and utterly unassailable.

How do Irish people square this in their heads? I cannot.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-04-2019 2:56pm

I said I felt glad when I heard that Ted Bundy had fear in his eyes at the moment of execution. But you know what? The thought of him sitting in jail for decades before dying makes me just as happy. He hated being imprisoned. I was thrilled that Myra Hindley died in prison after spending much of her time incarcerated trying to be released. LOL. I love the thought of Anders Breivik stewing in his cell, not getting the media attention he craves. I don’t see what’s so much better about putting these people to death. And of course people have been given posthumous pardons. Great, I’m sure their skeletons are delighted. :rolleyes:

Varik · 17-04-2019 2:58pm

Wouldn't mind if they brought corporal punishment back.

Stocks in particular, would say a week in that would be more of a punishment than 6 months with sitting on their ass watching TV for the 100rd conviction.

Probably some nice none suffocating\scalding substitute for tarring and feathering.

Anteayer · 17-04-2019 2:59pm

I don’t agree with the concept of the state killing people. As soon as you cross that line, the moral high ground has been lost and you’re into vengeance rather than justice.

Also what happens if you’ve a miscarriage of justice? No system is beyond making a mistake. In a situation like that the state would have murdered an innocent person.

Also from a deterrent point of view, it doesn’t stand up. Look at the USA which has the death penalty in many states, yet has a much higher homicide rate than anywhere in Europe, where the death penalty has been abolished.

You also don’t solve the lax sentencing and reoffending issue by reintroduction of a death sentence. They’re unrelated issues. The majority of issues here with reoffending are petty crime and drug related addiction driven stuff. We fail abysmally at tackling that due to systemic issues.

I’m more than happy to have a system that’s above putting people to death. It’s barbaric and we’ve moved on.
There are certain issues worth standing your ground on and this is one of them.

Boom_Bap · 17-04-2019 3:01pm

Anyone want to hang out later?

Mr. CooL ICE · 17-04-2019 3:02pm

Boom_Bap wrote: »

What about 30 and this bag of seedless grapes?

Ooh, seedless grapes! I look forward to cultivating with them.

Plumbthedepths · 17-04-2019 3:02pm

topper75 wrote:

I might be picking at scabs here or risking a derailment - but worth mentioning to those of an overly liberal persuasion that our law as it stands can see an unborn child forfeit their lives if they are deemed inconvenient to a parent (with no transgression committed) whereas a murderer, even an unrepentant multiple murderer, has a right to life enshrined and utterly unassailable.

Oh FFS, please don't start this crap.

marieholmfan · 17-04-2019 3:14pm

Anteayer wrote: »

Also what happens if you’ve a miscarriage of justice? No system is beyond making a mistake. In a situation like that the state would have murdered an innocent person.

Don't agree with execution of innocent people.
This poll is about executing the guilty.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-04-2019 3:17pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Don't agree with execution of innocent people.
This poll is about executing the guilty.

Well, innocent people have been executed. And it will continue to happen. It’s virtually impossible to guarantee it won’t happen in the future.

freshpopcorn · 17-04-2019 3:21pm

No. I don't think really reduces crime what I've seen/heard.

I did know people and they were all for hanging/death penalty for drug dealers/etc. However when somebody they knew got caught with a large amount of drugs. They did everything possible to get them out of a jail sentence.

Gimme A Pound · 17-04-2019 3:42pm

topper75 wrote: »

If we are against capital punishment (which BTW has nothing to do with the extra-judicially murdered Emmett Till whatsoever Fuaranach) then how to we justify locking up people for life. What does it achieve? Is it merely cowardliness on the part of our society? We wait for decades at great expense for 'nature' to do anyway what we should have done?

I find it odd this belief that, though we believe murder to be wrong, we think that the right to life cannot be forfeit, and that a murderer gets to live on utterly disregarding anything they may have done. What is the ethical basis for this principle?

I might be picking at scabs here or risking a derailment - but worth mentioning to those of an overly liberal persuasion that our law as it stands can see an unborn child forfeit their lives if they are deemed inconvenient to a parent (with no transgression committed) whereas a murderer, even an unrepentant multiple murderer, has a right to life enshrined and utterly unassailable.

How do Irish people square this in their heads? I cannot.

Well I'm not overly liberal yet I can appreciate that a baby is far from fully formed early on in the pregnancy (people don't like the phrase "a bunch of cells" but that's what it is for a while - it's absurd to compare that to a fully formed being) and while I'd prefer it if all pregnancies went to full term, sometimes the option to have an abortion very early on is necessary. And it's not always just due to inconvenience (rarely I'd bet).

I'm in two minds about capital punishment.

dd973 · 17-04-2019 3:53pm

On a serious note, things are supposed to progress not regress or even just have the appearance of doing so, if hanging was brought back than we may as well bring back Magdalen laundries and ban divorce. Not worth offing one person who's innocent no matter how many bad un's go to the gallows as well.

Cordell · 17-04-2019 3:57pm

I would rather be stoned than hanged. ðŸ˜Ž

marieholmfan · 17-04-2019 3:59pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No. I don't think really reduces crime what I've seen/heard.

Not really about deterring crime. It is about punishing the guilty.

seamus · 17-04-2019 3:59pm

topper75 wrote: »

If we are against capital punishment (which BTW has nothing to do with the extra-judicially murdered Emmett Till whatsoever Fuaranach) then how to we justify locking up people for life. What does it achieve?

There are a number of things achieved by a "true" life sentence.

1. It provides, however tiny a consolation it might be, the opportunity for a wrongfully convicted person to be set free. You can't set a dead man free.

2. It protects society from them.

3. It gives society an opportunity to prove that even though individuals commit barbarous crimes, society doesn't respond with equal barbarity.

4. The individual in question still has an opportunity to better themselves and contribute to society even if they are locked up. Prisoners should be capable of having full access to education opportunities and work opportunities appropriate to the level of security required.

I find it odd this belief that, though we believe murder to be wrong, we think that the right to life cannot be forfeit, and that a murderer gets to live on utterly disregarding anything they may have done. What is the ethical basis for this principle?

There are many possible ethical bases for it. One argument is that taking someone's life doesn't constitute any form of punishment at all, since you have eliminated any possibility for remorse or contrition. The individual ceases to exist, there is no afterlife where they'll be punished. If you want punishment, it's in the here and now.

One thing I always find curious about those who propose capital punishment is that they often express a desire to see the criminal suffer for their crimes. Yet execution is the absolute end of suffering. Someone who is gone, is not suffering.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-04-2019 4:12pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Don't agree with execution of innocent people.
This poll is about executing the guilty.

Well that's a relief, but how do you ensure a 100% scientifically-proven method of determining the difference?

weldoninhio · 18-04-2019 2:11pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No. I don't think really reduces crime what I've seen/heard.

I did know people and they were all for hanging/death penalty for drug dealers/etc. However when somebody they knew got caught with a large amount of drugs. They did everything possible to get them out of a jail sentence.

Of course it reduces crime!!! If someone no longer exists they can no longer break the law. There is a finite amount of serious criminals. Or do you think that in the USA and other countries where there is the death sentence that when one person is executed, another previously law-abiding citizen decides to become a criminal??

salmocab · 18-04-2019 2:21pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Of course it reduces crime!!! If someone no longer exists they can no longer break the law. There is a finite amount of serious criminals. Or do you think that in the USA and other countries where there is the death sentence that when one person is executed, another previously law-abiding citizen decides to become a criminal??

Well it’s not the death penalty or freedom it’s generally or life in prison so they aren’t out committing crimes.

weldoninhio · 18-04-2019 3:30pm

salmocab wrote: »

Well it’s not the death penalty or freedom it’s generally or life in prison so they aren’t out committing crimes.

There are plenty of convicted murderers walking the streets of Ireland.

Also, it is possible to break the law INSIDE prison.

Beasty · 18-04-2019 3:41pm

I think it should be part of the national lottery - you win some, you lose some, but once you've lost you never have to play again

Would also help solve the housing crisis

freshpopcorn · 18-04-2019 3:49pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Of course it reduces crime!!! If someone no longer exists they can no longer break the law. There is a finite amount of serious criminals. Or do you think that in the USA and other countries where there is the death sentence that when one person is executed, another previously law-abiding citizen decides to become a criminal??

I don't believe that the death penalty is a deterrent. That's my take on it

Time to bring back hanging?

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