Is accountability alien to our public sector?

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2019 4:45pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You think people are going around to banking headquarters and recording everything on their phones? Average joe soaps?

You think bankers who want leverage over their bosses and competitors AREN'T recording everything?

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 5:40pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Angry? You're throwing around allegations of corruption, with zero evidence and close to zero understanding of how the supposedly corrupt process actually works, changing the subject and shifting the goalposts every time you're asked for specifics, and you don't understand why people are angry - really?

You are blindly defending a process you either know nothing about or are very close to. You are blindly defending the every government department on every level of corruption and ask if anything was reported to the gaurds.

The gaurds have all sorts of corruption going on themselves. I’m sure you are going to ask me to list them.

When I do you will either say they didn’t happen or tell me the system has been changed so that it never happens again. Until it happens again.

Then you will ask me for proof until it is proven then we will go around in circles again.

You are part of the problem.

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2019 6:02pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I doubt very much if the LIBOR scandal is not being repeated. And it would have to be directed from the top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

dxhound2005 · 02-02-2019 6:41pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

It might do. But with the penchant for greed in the private sector, it will take a very strong public sector regulatory framework to ensure that it won't be repeated. And unsurprisingly another scandal from the past has emerged.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0131/1026735-euro-zone-banks/

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2019 6:54pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Bringing sick children on public transport is not an option for most and puts them at even more risk. Many of these children have vulnerable immune systems. You could be endangering their lives. Even the common flu could kill them. Parking and easy access has to be a central consideration.

Seems to work OK for some of the best paediatric hospitals in the world, like Great Ormonde St, who don't hesitate to tell their families to walk or use public transport, as it helps patients to breathe

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/your-hospital-visit/travelling-gosh

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 8:06pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

They are working perfectly. They give the perception that the system is working honestly while it is being used as a trough.

That’s what it’s all about.

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2019 8:09pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

They are working perfectly. They give the perception that the system is working honestly while it is being used as a trough.

That’s what it’s all about.

And your level of experience will LIBOR regulation is?

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 8:12pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And your level of experience will LIBOR regulation is?

It’s part of the big circle of poop swirling around the flushing toilet that is Irish public spending for as long as I’m alive.

I have to hand it to the lads on the radio and tv who have to pretend they are surprised there is a scandal every time there is a scandal.

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2019 8:16pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

It’s part of the big circle of poop swirling around the flushing toilet that is Irish public spending for as long as I’m alive.

I have to hand it to the lads on the radio and tv who have to pretend they are surprised there is a scandal every time there is a scandal.

So that's a No then - you know nothing about LIBOR regulation but you're quite happy to speak definitively about how it's not working. Is there anything that you're not a barstool expert in?

ToBeFrank123 · 02-02-2019 8:19pm

So basically unqualified fools came up with the original estimate. Once it passed planning and political sign off the "experts" and builders came up with the real price which was at least 1.3 billion more.

You can understand why people have lost faith in the process.

The hospital wouldn't have got sign off if the true cost was known originally. So a huge pulling wool over the eyes exercise was needed to get it past the public.

They've been rumbled. Now watch them scurry for the hills.

Wheeliebin30 · 02-02-2019 8:19pm

1.7 billion on a vital hospital that will do is a 100 years yet no one dares question the 20 BILLION welfare budget per annum.

I don’t get it.

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 8:20pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then - you know nothing about LIBOR regulation but you're quite happy to speak definitively about how it's not working. Is there anything that you're not a barstool expert in?

I have had my stool sat at the bar of life for a few years now and have seen my share of smoke and mirrors I agree.
Basically after twenty years inthe plumbing game I can spot a flushing toilet a mile off.

I can imagine ringing my boss and telling him I underpriced a job by a few hundred million.

Wheeliebin30 · 02-02-2019 8:21pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

So basically unqualified fools came up with the original estimate. Once it passed planning and political sign off the "experts" and builders came up with the real price which was at least 1.3 billion more.

You can understand why people have lost faith in the process.

The hospital wouldn't have got sign off if the true cost was known originally. So a huge pulling wool over the eyes exercise was needed to get it past the public.

They've been rumbled. Now watch them scurry for the hills.

What then?

No children’s hospital?

How do we know it wouldn’t cost the same if built in blanch?

Experts everywhere.

noodler · 02-02-2019 8:37pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

You are blindly defending a process you either know nothing about or are very close to. You are blindly defending the every government department on every level of corruption and ask if anything was reported to the gaurds.

The gaurds have all sorts of corruption going on themselves. I’m sure you are going to ask me to list them.

When I do you will either say they didn’t happen or tell me the system has been changed so that it never happens again. Until it happens again.

Then you will ask me for proof until it is proven then we will go around in circles again.

You are part of the problem.

My god you need a tinfoil hat.

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 8:48pm

noodler wrote: »

My god you need a tinfoil hat.

Yeah so does Maurice maccabe and the barmen in templemore.

CrankyHaus · 02-02-2019 9:00pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are very strict ethics rules for Councillors, and they get pulled up on them by SIPO from time to time. These rules don't bar Councillors from doing business with the Council, provided they have no role in awarding contracts, and their interests are declared.

.

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Flyingsnowball · 02-02-2019 9:05pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Big swirling toilet, if the councilors got the road 3 other lads would roll into their place and be coached by the 3 fired lads.
Smoke and mirrors and ensuring the perception of honesty with the general public.

That’s new politics, same as old politics.

ToBeFrank123 · 02-02-2019 9:45pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What then?

No children’s hospital?

How do we know it wouldn’t cost the same if built in blanch?

Experts everywhere.

There aren't experts everywhere. All we need is someone to come up with a ballpark figure within a few hundred million so we can decide if its worth it or if there are better alternatives including investing in current hospitals.

This new hospital will have to be paid for by cutbacks elsewhere and even at the new hospital.

Its been a disaster.

BrianBoru00 · 02-02-2019 9:56pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

.........
Patient representation and staff representation would be great indeed. It was interesting to see the RSA including two parents of road death victims on their latest board.

But really, why would parking be the deciding factor in locating a facility like this. Do we want great parking and poor clinical results? The location was chosen by an expert panel of medics, planners and architects. Why would you think that you know better?

Again whether its built in JAmes or 15 minutes drive west will not have an impact on clinical results - the co location argument was quite a weak one - If we are building the best childrens hospital then we need to stock it with top class physicians, not running next door to the " big peoples" hospital when we need them.

"Expert" is quite loosely used there and who selected that panel??? It's absolute madness to locate it where it is.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And by the way, it's EXACTLY the kind of thinking that you call for - outsourcing of ALL risk onto the builder - that results in huge inflated prices on these contracts. Be careful what you wish for.

Then so be it but at least it will then be transparent and builders can try and better the main competitors. But as people have said umpteen times - the increase in price due to inflation can be factored in but is more like 3-5% than 300%

Wheeliebin30 · 02-02-2019 10:00pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There aren't experts everywhere. All we need is someone to come up with a ballpark figure within a few hundred million so we can decide if its worth it or if there are better alternatives including investing in current hospitals.

This new hospital will have to be paid for by cutbacks elsewhere and even at the new hospital.

Its been a disaster.

This has been discussed for 20 years.

No more delays just get it built.

As I said we spend 20 billion a year on welfare. No one questions that.

1.7 billion to look after our kids.

Just build it

beauf · 02-02-2019 10:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Seems to work OK for some of the best paediatric hospitals in the world, like Great Ormonde St, who don't hesitate to tell their families to walk or use public transport, as it helps patients to breathe

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/your-hospital-visit/travelling-gosh

So how many actually use public transport and how many drive to gosh?

AndrewJRenko · 03-02-2019 11:10am

CrankyHaus wrote: »

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Yep, the legal process is still going through. It takes time to do things right, so that they can't be challenged and overruled.

beauf wrote: »

So how many actually use public transport and how many drive to gosh?

I'd guess most of them, given that there is zero parking for patients/families.

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Again whether its built in JAmes or 15 minutes drive west will not have an impact on clinical results - the co location argument was quite a weak one - If we are building the best childrens hospital then we need to stock it with top class physicians, not running next door to the " big peoples" hospital when we need them.

"Expert" is quite loosely used there and who selected that panel??? It's absolute madness to locate it where it is.

So just to be clear, 4 x experienced medical consultants, 2 x planners, one architect and one hospital CEO aren't experts? The average boards poster know more than that esteemed group?

CrankyHaus · 03-02-2019 11:37am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, the legal process is still going through. It takes time to do things right, so that they can't be challenged and overruled.

Of course, of course. Just like the Tribunal report on Lowry was forwarded to the Gardai for investigation... In 2011 with no action yet taken while Lowry keeps FG in government. These things take time I suppose.

Even if anyone did believe that genuine efforts were being made to address the evident corruption of those Councillors, which they aren't, justice delayed is justice denied.

beauf · 03-02-2019 12:40pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

... I'd guess most of them, given that there is zero parking for patients/families...

No parking at temple st street either. That doesn't mean no one's using their car. If you look at the forums for gosh lots of advice about using the nearby car parks. We know nothing about how people travel to gosh. No stats nothing. So it's not an example of anything.

Most people commenting on this thread have not used any of these hospitals, not read any of the reports. It's just guesses and assumptions.

fxotoole · 03-02-2019 12:59pm

BBFAN wrote: »

I think there are a lot of public sector workers on boards OP, so you're on a losing streak straight off but I agree with you completely.

I deal with public sector employees daily in my current position and they genuinely do not give 2 ****s about their job, it's all voicemails and emails. And btw their emails have no telephone number on them in case god forbid you might ring them.

I also have a friend who works in the public sector and insists that she has to take her sick leave days EVERY year.

It's turns my stomach.

1 massive generalization and 1 anecdote, good job there

fxotoole · 03-02-2019 1:04pm

Giveaway wrote: »

Need to just stop the project. Stop paying out to builders etc. Minisiter needs to state no new childrens' hospital and place the blame back on the ones riding the country for all its worth. And if they start playing the poor mouth be told publicly"tough, you killed the golden goose ". Then any future state tenders will not be subject to cost overruns

Edit-start firing the state emloyees who approved these costs, starting with Harris

Political suicide

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 1:04pm

fxotoole wrote: »

1 massive generalization and 1 anecdote, good job there

Come off it, we all know there are public service workers no better than dole scroungers gaming the system. The only question is the percentage between genuine workers and people who would save the state money if they jacked in their job and signed on the dole.

brendanwalsh · 03-02-2019 1:12pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

This follows hot on the heels of a scandal which cost people their lives in the cervical cancer scandal - public servants knew that women were terminally ill and didn't compel doctors to tell these women.

I don't think this sentence is correct is it ?
The women were later diagnosed with cervical cancer but the original tests were only found to be wrong when the went back and re audited them.
My understanding is once the tests were known to be abnormal the women had already been diagnosed with cervical cancer

AndrewJRenko · 03-02-2019 1:49pm

beauf wrote: »

No parking at temple st street either. That doesn't mean no one's using their car. If you look at the forums for gosh lots of advice about using the nearby car parks. We know nothing about how people travel to gosh. No stats nothing. So it's not an example of anything.

It's an example of a major children's hospital that doesn't provide parking for parents and asks people to travel on foot or by public transport.

beauf wrote: »

Most people commenting on this thread have not used any of these hospitals, not read any of the reports. It's just guesses and assumptions.

You're right, the arrogance of the bar-stool experts is breathtaking.

fxotoole · 03-02-2019 2:00pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I think a lot of the time the fella awarding the contract tells his mate to name his price and they split the money.

Quite the allegation you’ve got there. Any evidence though?

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 2:08pm

fxotoole wrote: »

Quite the allegation you’ve got there. Any evidence though?

Round and round like a big swirling toilet. If I had evidence would you try make it disappear or welcome it.

I never said it has happened here but it does happen all across all contract awarding situations and I do have personal experience with fitting new boilers in the fella who was awarding a big contracts mother’s house. Then a few weeks later aunts house and it goes on right through all industries so it is not quite the allegation at all. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest where the public sector has time and time again proven to take the tax money and use it like a pig feeder.

beauf · 03-02-2019 2:53pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's an example of a major children's hospital that doesn't provide parking for parents and asks people to travel on foot or by public transport.....

It can ask all it likes. The question is do they? Without knowing that its a bit pointless.

Judging by all the hits you get searching on it, and how many car parks there are around it, (which seem to come up when you search for GOSH) the issue isn't finding parking.

steddyeddy · 03-02-2019 4:22pm

I my brief time in the HSE's biochemistry lab I've seen the civil servants engage in nepotism, over spending and protecting incompetence at the expense of patients health.

steddyeddy · 03-02-2019 4:35pm

I'll just add that if you secured a job in the civil service because your related to someone there then you're part of the problem.

AndrewJRenko · 03-02-2019 4:49pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Round and round like a big swirling toilet. If I had evidence would you try make it disappear or welcome it.

I never said it has happened here but it does happen all across all contract awarding situations and I do have personal experience with fitting new boilers in the fella who was awarding a big contracts mother’s house. Then a few weeks later aunts house and it goes on right through all industries so it is not quite the allegation at all. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest where the public sector has time and time again proven to take the tax money and use it like a pig feeder.

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.

beauf wrote: »

It can ask all it likes. The question is do they? Without knowing that its a bit pointless.

Judging by all the hits you get searching on it, and how many car parks there are around it, (which seem to come up when you search for GOSH) the issue isn't finding parking.

The point is that the hospital doesn't provide parking, and everything works out quite successfully regardless.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I my brief time in the HSE's biochemistry lab I've seen the civil servants engage in nepotism, over spending and protecting incompetence at the expense of patients health.

That's strange, because HSE staff aren't civil servants. But please do share details of whatever issues you reported to get the problem solved?

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 4:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.

Have you read the news the last twenty or so years, I have.

It’s a merry go round of corruption. Like a big swirling toilet. If we arnt uncovering corruption we are either waiting on evidence of corruption or holding an enquiry into how the corruption happened.

AndrewJRenko · 03-02-2019 5:00pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Have you read the news the last twenty or so years, I have.

It’s a merry go round of corruption. Like a big swirling toilet. If we arnt uncovering corruption we are either waiting on evidence of corruption or holding an enquiry into how the corruption happened.

Have you read the news of the other 99% of successful projects that proceed normally on time on budget? No, because I guess that doesn't make headlines. You wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers, or assume that it is any way representative of normal day-to-day activity.

But yeah, let's solve the problem by throwing round wild allegations with no evidence. That's really going to help.

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 5:06pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you read the news of the other 99% of successful projects that proceed normally on time on budget? No, because I guess that doesn't make headlines. You wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers, or assume that it is any way representative of normal day-to-day activity.

But yeah, let's solve the problem by throwing round wild allegations with no evidence. That's really going to help.

I’d say 99 per cent is a bit of a stretch. Even for the ones caught with their fingers in the till.

If I flooded a 1 in every hundred houses I worked in and walked away with twice the price I quoted I wouldn’t be in business very long. Never mind having some sort of ineptitude going on every week.
Roxanne pallet accused a fella in the big brother house of hitting her harder than he did and her career is ruined yet the gaurds here can accuse a whistleblower of being a paedophile and nothing happens.

suicide_circus · 03-02-2019 5:08pm

I welcome the fact that the government are going to allow the pwc review to find individuals responsible

AndrewJRenko · 03-02-2019 5:15pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I’d say 99 per cent is a bit of a stretch. Even for the ones caught with their fingers in the till.

If I flooded a 1 in every hundred houses I worked in and walked away with twice the price I quoted I wouldn’t be in business very long. Never mind having some sort of ineptitude going on every week.
Roxanne pallet accused a fella in the big brother house of hitting her harder than he did and her career is ruined yet the gaurds here can accuse a whistleblower of being a paedophile and nothing happens.

Well, we all know that you've nothing to base your estimates on, so any talk of numbers is really pointless. But look at the breadth of activity coming out of any Government department and the many agencies they manage, and look at the handful of cases of those 'caught with their fingers in the till'.

If running a government was a simple as installing boilers in houses, we really wouldn't need a government. There is a bit more to it than that.

And in case you didn't notice, two Garda Commissions fell on their swords as a result of McCabe and protected disclosure legislation was brought in. That's not quite 'nothing happens'.

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 6:02pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Well, we all know that you've nothing to base your estimates on, so any talk of numbers is really pointless. But look at the breadth of activity coming out of any Government department and the many agencies they manage, and look at the handful of cases of those 'caught with their fingers in the till'.

If running a government was a simple as installing boilers in houses, we really wouldn't need a government. There is a bit more to it than that.

And in case you didn't notice, two Garda Commissions fell on their swords as a result of McCabe and protected disclosure legislation was brought in. That's not quite 'nothing happens'.

Fell on their sword or moved department?

steddyeddy · 03-02-2019 6:58pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.

The point is that the hospital doesn't provide parking, and everything works out quite successfully regardless.

That's strange, because HSE staff aren't civil servants. But please do share details of whatever issues you reported to get the problem solved?

I've encountered exactly as is reported here and particularly the bit in bold. The taxpayer is funding a system whereby people can secure jobs for life for their unemployable relatives.

Nepotism is rampant throughout the Health Service Executive (HSE), as the Sunday Independent has exposed another group of children of senior managers being appointed to jobs which were not advertised.

Three weeks ago, this newspaper revealed that the children of four managers in a Cork office and three children of managers in Limerick were appointed to non-advertised positions despite a national moratorium on recruitment.

This weekend, the Sunday Independent has learned the children of another three senior managers in Dublin were appointed to clerical grade-three positions on a temporary basis to aid in the administration of the Back to School Scheme. However, these people are still in their posts over a year later.

The individuals involved in the Dublin office are: Eoin Tighe, son of regional manager Rita Tighe; Grace Whittle, daughter of superintendent Joseph Whittle; and Mark Mulvihill, son of senior manager Noel Mulvihill.

Health Minister Mary Harney, through her spokesman, said that she was awaiting the findings of a HSE investigation into the charges of nepotism but stressed that it was her view that public-sector norms in terms of recruitment were adhered to strictly.

The HSE confirmed that the roles were filled without external advertisement but in line with existing emergency short-term provisions and following a derogation to the public sector-wide moratorium of staff recruitment.

Fine Gael's Health spokesman James Reilly said there was only one word to describe appointments like this -- nepotism.

"It is utterly intolerable that senior managers in the HSE would see fit to nominate family members to paid positions in the HSE without advertising those positions, in an organisation already struggling for credibility."

He said it was disgraceful and a reflection of the mindset of HSE managers that they would show complete disregard for fairness and transparency by giving family members jobs without any recourse to due process.

Normal HSE recruitment policy dictates that all vacancies are filled by open competition, with posts advertised in national and local media as well as on the HSE website.

None of the 13 temporary positions as grade-three clerical officers in the HSE South region were advertised, while the Limerick posts were only advertised to existing staff.

The "vast majority" of 15 temporary Community Welfare Officers (CWOs) working in Limerick were family members and friends of HSE staff.

Among those to be appointed to jobs, which carry an annual salary of over €29,000, were Rosaleen Walsh, daughter of HSE project officer Ignatius Walsh; Killian O'Sullivan, husband of HSE CWO Geraldine O'Rourke; and Kevin Gaffney, husband of HSE CWO Anne Mulcair.

Snow Garden · 03-02-2019 8:12pm

Where I work, nepotism is very common for new positions, especially for the higher grades. That said, they do advertise most of the positions internally and externally but it's often a foregone conclusion. I did use a bit of pull to get my own position but I reckon I was more than qualified too.

Allinall · 03-02-2019 9:10pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I've encountered exactly as is reported here and particularly the bit in bold. The taxpayer is funding a system whereby people can secure jobs for life for their unemployable relatives.

Curious as to how you know the relatives were unemployable?

Big claim to be making.

steddyeddy · 03-02-2019 10:22pm

Allinall wrote: »

Curious as to how you know the relatives were unemployable?

Big claim to be making.

All of the managers in one HSE office filled positions with their close relatives. If I had to rely on mammy and daddy to get a job I'd question myself.

Allinall · 03-02-2019 10:45pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

All of the managers in one HSE office filled positions with their close relatives. If I had to rely on mammy and daddy to get a job I'd question myself.

But no evidence that they we’re unemployable? Or that they hat to “rely” on anyone to get their job?

Maybe you’d mention some names to give credibility to your claims.

Flyingsnowball · 03-02-2019 10:52pm

Allinall wrote: »

But no evidence that they we’re unemployable? Or that they hat to “rely” on anyone to get their job?

Maybe you’d mention some names to give credibility to your claims.

There is four or five of you lads who keep asking for impossible to obtain evidence and threatening legal action.

How is he supposed to prove that on an Internet forum?

Edward M · 08-02-2019 9:12am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s totally wrong. The politicians may be somewhat responsible but in general they don’t micro manage these services or the day to day administration

I don't know how this will pan out now Franz, but it looks like Harris is under pressure now.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/harris-position-untenable-after-memo-revelation-on-391m-overrun-on-nch-37794953.html

VinLieger · 08-02-2019 9:29am

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

There is four or five of you lads who keep asking for impossible to obtain evidence and threatening legal action.

How is he supposed to prove that on an Internet forum?

LOL nobody has threatened legal action, your getting a bit worked up on this.

Also the idea of providing evidence to back up claims on an anonymous internet forum isnt exactly new, if you've got no evidence your claims are effectively worthless

steddyeddy · 08-02-2019 6:31pm

Evidence that they were unemployable? In hindsight they were employed by relatives so employable with the caveat that relatives hire them. The ones I worked with were certainly incompetent.

Is accountability alien to our public sector?

Comments