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Airing Religious Views

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    #182
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Na i agree with him getting sacked, big difference being sacked by a company for saying something then the state sanctioning you for it. You are free to say what you like as should be the case, however in the same way i'm free to tell my manager to fcuk off if i do that i have to accept the consequences that i will be fired. He was warned by his employer before about this and choose to ignore it, his choice but he knew what would happen so i'v no sympathy for him.


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    #183
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,169 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Lmfao

    You dont have to be a part of polite society if you dont want

    Just dont be surprised when you get shunned

    Take a step outside your bubble once in a while, will do you a world of good


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    #184
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    the best way to defeat bad ideas is in the open


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    #185
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Aubrie Thoughtless Spy wrote: »
    Funny that...it actually says."God made them in His image, male and female."

    If you're going to try back up your position with a Bible verse, at least get it right.
    In his image? Male and female? How exactly does that work?


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    #186
    StinkyMunkey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    Religious fanatic gets sacked for hate speech - there is hope for the human race (almost said, there is a god :p).

    I laughed when I read they sacked the thick fcuk.


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    #187
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    StinkyMunkey wrote: »
    Religious fanatic gets sacked for hate speech - there is hope for the human race (almost said, there is a god :p).

    I laughed when I read they sacked the thick fcuk.

    I laughed when I read this, lol.


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    #188
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Quite possibly - and if that is the case, well then that's it. Case closed.

    But in that case he's being sacked for breach of contract, not for being a dick. You still can't sack someone for just being a bit of a twat, famous or not.

    How many times does it have to be explained to you that he was already warned not to do this sort of thing, he did it anyway, he got sacked.

    I'd have some sympathy for this guy if it was completely out of the blue but it wasn't, full stop. He was warned, did it, got sacked. Tough ****.


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    #189
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    grahambo wrote: »
    The Rule in 2019 is:
    You're not allowed to say anything that might "trigger" some mad person or upset a delicate snow flake.

    Basically the world has to pretend to be super inclusive, accepting and culturally diverse even though it really isn't.

    If he believes that, then fine. (Who cares!?)
    But he was an absolute IDIOT for saying it on social media, it's cost him his career.

    Saying that being gay is a sin and you are going to hell is complete and utter hate-mongering. Not only that but he had no basis to back up what he says other than he believes in some man in the sky with a white beard

    Imagine someone actually having an issue with what he said?

    If someone objects to hate-filled comments targeting gay people they're snowflakes. F*ck off with that backwards ****e.


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    #190
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    What will happen is that he'll be paid up his contract and he'll go to France and play for a team over there.

    Probably. They have previous in employing "not convicted of anything" scumbags.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #191
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    He stated a view that is held by most of the world's main religions.

    That's bullshít, but you've already ignored my previous post on that question, so it's clear your outrage is not informed by facts.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #192
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Take a step outside your bubble once in a while, will do you a world of good

    translation: Im surrounded by awful c*nts and i cant believe you dont do the same for yourself!

    get better friends


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    #193
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Folau is an absolutely fantastic player, but rugby like most sports is a commercial enterprise. If they viewed it as commercially inadvisable to hold on to him, well it is what it is.

    It's not like he didn't get warning last time, which resulted in an even more important player to their national team (can't remember if it was Pocock or Hooper?) shooting him down over it.

    Its a business decision, simple as. I can't say I feel sorry for him whatsoever, and fully support rugby Australia using their freedom of speech and expression in doing so.


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    #194
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    boards really needs a few defined terms to stymie these persistent lil squalls of confusion. "free speech" and how it differs from "consequence-free speech" could be a banner entry


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    #195
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    In regards to the Aussie rudby player, Mormons are weird.

    The One True Church of Christ is the Roman Catholic Church who Christ himself instructed his apostle Peter to found before his cruxifixion


    Cats hate the Sin , not the Sinner. God judges at death not man.


    Half the Priesthood are fairies for goodness sake. It's not a big deal.


    Mormons are strange, ok.


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    #196
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    That's bullshít, but you've already ignored my previous post on that question, so it's clear your outrage is not informed by facts.

    You can back away with your outrage comment. I can have a view without being outraged. If he's sacked or not makes no difference to me. I don't do 'triggered' etc. I'm at the disapproval level rather than outrage.

    You don't think many religions view homosexuality as a sin? Traditionally Judaism, Christianity and Islam have viewed homosexuality as a sin. Some branches of these religions now accept homosexuality but it's not correct to say that they are all accepting of it.

    While I don't agree with what Falou said (looks like I'll be going to hell for being a liar and a drunk :)) I don't think it warrants him losing his job because of it. If you have a religious belief THAT ISN'T ILLEGAL, then you should be allowed to say what your beliefs are (even if they are stupid). You shouldn't have to practice your religion in silence.

    What would happen if an employer said to their Jehovah's Witness employees that they can't go door-to-door on their days off trying to enlighten people? There'd be uproar over an employer interfering in an employee's religious life. It's pretty much the same thing here.


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    #197
    Captain Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,834 ✭✭✭Captain Flaps


    BBFAN wrote: »
    How many times does it have to be explained to you that he was already warned not to do this sort of thing, he did it anyway, he got sacked.

    I'd have some sympathy for this guy if it was completely out of the blue but it wasn't, full stop. He was warned, did it, got sacked. Tough ****.

    Another point that I've not seen addressed here (because I've skimmed a lot of the thread, apologies if I missed it) is that RA claim they tried to contact Folau a number of times prior to taking the measures they did, and he failed to respond. That's relevant imo.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    What would happen if an employer said to their Jehovah's Witness employees that they can't go door-to-door on their days off trying to enlighten people? There'd be uproar over an employer interfering in an employee's religious life. It's pretty much the same thing here.

    That's not equivalent. The employer would be well within their rights to require that their JW employees not go door to door in their work uniform, or to customers of the company who might recognise them as such.

    My contract stipulates that I not do or say anything in public that might bring the company into disrepute, I think that's pretty standard even if it is a broad and unenforceable point.


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    #198
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Captain Flaps wrote: »
    That's not equivalent. The employer would be well within their rights to require that their JW employees not go door to door in their work uniform, or to customers of the company who might recognise them as such.

    My contract stipulates that I not do or say anything in public that might bring the company into disrepute, I think that's pretty standard even if it is a broad and unenforceable point.

    Falau posted the comments on his own page, not the ARU page so he can't be considered to be doing it in his work uniform. I doubt your employer can legally tell you not to go door-to-door in case customers might recognise you.

    I'll agree with your second point. But contracts are there to be snipped away at. The courts often overturn clauses in contracts. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.


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    #199
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Captain Flaps wrote: »
    Another point that I've not seen addressed here (because I've skimmed a lot of the thread, apologies if I missed it) is that RA claim they tried to contact Folau a number of times prior to taking the measures they did, and he failed to respond. That's relevant imo.

    This point deserves its own response.

    Falau posted his comments on April 10th.

    They say that they weren't able to contact him. Fair enough if they were trying for a month or two to contact him, but it was less than a week from him posting the comments and then being shoved out of the door.

    That's hardly a huge effort at contacting him. I work in a HR office (but not in a HR role) and there's no way they'd consider sacking someone after a week of trying to contact them.


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    #200
    Captain Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,834 ✭✭✭Captain Flaps


    You think leaving something like that unaddressed for a month or two would be appropriate? He's a high profile rugby player, I can't imagine what set of circumstances would have him uncontactable by the national governing body or his agent or whoever for a few days in the midst of a media storm. That in itself could be a breach of the terms of his contract for all we know.


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    #201
    Captain Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,834 ✭✭✭Captain Flaps


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Falau posted the comments on his own page, not the ARU page so he can't be considered to be doing it in his work uniform. I doubt your employer can legally tell you not to go door-to-door in case customers might recognise you.
    .

    He's wearing his strip in all of his social media profile images and he's a public figure. He's a representative of Rugby Australia any time he makes a comment on a public platform.


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    #202
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Captain Flaps wrote: »
    You think leaving something like that unaddressed for a month or two would be appropriate? He's a high profile rugby player, I can't imagine what set of circumstances would have him uncontactable by the national governing body or his agent or whoever for a few days in the midst of a media storm. That in itself could be a breach of the terms of his contract for all we know.

    His profile has nothing to do with it. He's still an employee and entitled to fair procedures. So he has to be treated like an employee. Just as if he was a plumber or a shop assistant.

    Why was he uncontactable? No idea. He could have gone on holiday to get away. He could have been ill. He might have wanted time alone to be with God :D. Who knows, but three or four days trying to contact someone isn't a long time.


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    #203
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    You don't think many religions view homosexuality as a sin? Traditionally Judaism, Christianity and Islam have viewed homosexuality as a sin. Some branches of these religions now accept homosexuality but it's not correct to say that they are all accepting of it.

    None of them afaik say that being a homosexual is sinful, they do say homosexual acts are sinful.

    None of these religions state, as Folau did, that merely having a homosexual orientation is going to put anyone in hell.
    While I don't agree with what Falou said (looks like I'll be going to hell for being a liar and a drunk :)) I don't think it warrants him losing his job because of it.

    It violates the contract of employment which he signed.

    He was warned by his employer a year ago not to do it again.

    He did it again.
    If you have a religious belief THAT ISN'T ILLEGAL, then you should be allowed to say what your beliefs are (even if they are stupid).

    There's way too much hatred and BS which gets a free pass merely because of religion.

    Stating that a group of people are sinners, going to hell etc. because of who they are is preaching hatred, and that should not get a free pass under the law whether the hatred was inspired by religion or not.
    You shouldn't have to practice your religion in silence.

    He is free to practice his religion all he wants.

    What he's not free to do is preach hatred while remaining an employee of the ARU.
    What would happen if an employer said to their Jehovah's Witness employees that they can't go door-to-door on their days off trying to enlighten people?

    Do JWs do this wearing their employer's uniform, and publically identify themselves as employees of that company? If so, then yes the employer is perfectly entitled to insist they stop doing so on pain of losing their job.

    As has been pointed out already in this thread numerous times, Folau has a very high social media profile because of his job, he represents Australian rugby in all he does and his actions here bring rugby into disrepute. He even had his "company uniform" on in his profile pic... like it or not, everything he posted as an ARU employee was linked to his employer. He can post whatever he wants now without it being associated with the ARU...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #204
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    The legalities now could get more complicated. It might depend what state he was in when he posted as different states over there have different laws regarding religious discrimination. This will drag on and on.


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    #205
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Not reading all this, but read the article that started it. I don't want to say they're right to fire him, but they're not wrong either. Religion is a personal choice, and freedom of speech allows people to ait their religious views. However, I also believe that if your religious views are contrary to a normal functioning society, they have no place. I was born and bred a Roman Catholic, and for the years I was doing the mass thing, I never once heard a priest or someone else Catholic warn me against 'the gays'. It never really came up I suppose.

    Someone mentioned on the first (or last) page that you shouldn't have to practice your religion in private. I think in this day and age you should only practice in private. Religion has no place in this world anymore. I'm not saying ban it, but it should not affect anyone else. For example, ramadan, I don't agree that full time employees should be allowed time off to pray, I don't believe catholics should be allowed to leave work to attend mass on Sundays (don't know if it's a rule, but I've worked in jobs where it happened), and the same for any other special requirements of any other religion.

    Believe in what you want, but don't expect me to agree or have to change my life to suit your religious views. It's also why i'll never visit countries where religion rules (still can't understand why people, especially women, travel to the UAE knowing what could happen for being yourself).

    All just my opinion though, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.


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    #206
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Apparently the ARU announced that he would be sacked before his hearing.

    That's a breach of employment law right there. You can't prejudge these things.

    What will happen is that he'll be paid up his contract and he'll go to France and play for a team over there.

    The most likely outcome is he'll get paid and then go play elsewhere. But you're wrong about the time line. He breached the contract he signed recently (since the first time he tweeted about gays going to hell). So it was misconduct and a sacking offence according to the contract he signed.

    Falou has decided to appeal. So it's not a hearing on whether he should be fired, it's an appeal against the firing. So not prejudiced as you said above.

    I heard there an aspect of New South Wales law that I didn't understand so he might win but that means he'll get the payout rather than getting to play for his club or country again.


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    #207
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Maybe he's a self loather.
    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/what-we-missed-in-rugby-australias-homophobia-scandal/news-story/ebbd4096687736e3c544413a41e780e4


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    #208
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Dunno, but it's a recurring theme that sooner or later the most vehemently homophobic US evangelical preachers wind up admitting to same-sex affairs.

    e.g. this totally hetero guy on the right (in more ways than one :) )

    478374.jpg

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #209
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I see Mr Folau has been sacked. I wonder what his next move will be? Will he try overturn it? Time will tell.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-folau-australian-rugby-star-sacked-over-anti-gay-social-media-post-11721930


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    #210
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    We might get to see this case play out in court as Folau has initiated legal proceedings against his club and the Oz rugby association.


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    #211
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    We might get to see this case play out in court as Folau has initiated legal proceedings against his club and the Oz rugby association.


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