Politcally Incorrect

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 4:08pm #1

This thread is a response to the overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days, whether we admit it or not.

I run a meetup group in Cork every second Thursday. It's called:

Politically Incorrect

We discuss all kinds of things that are suppressed in the media and generally in society. All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones.

Please share your incorrect thoughts here.

satanta99 · 20-11-2018 4:52pm

D'oh I think I clicked Yes by accident! Please take one vote from Yes and add it to NO, I do not want Ireland to leave the EU.

And to the OP how has the question of leaving the EU got anything to do with Political Correctness and how is membership of the EU putting an overwhelming pressure on free speech.

It would be good to hear some examples.

jimgoose · 20-11-2018 4:55pm

I don't feel any pressure whatsoever on free speech, unless you're referring to the current zeitgeist against being a prick to women and what-have-you.

Oh and, leaving the EU would be a lip-wobblingly, trouser-flappingly, five-star ocean going fuckin' stupid idea with four funnels and the full complement of lifeboats.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-11-2018 4:58pm

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't feel any pressure whatsoever on free speech, unless your referring to the current zeitgeist against being a prick to women and what-have-you.

Oh and, leaving the EU would be a lip-wobblingly, trouser-flappingly, five-star ocean going fuckin' stupid idea with four funnels and the full complement of lifeboats.

I stand and applaud that comment!

Poetry!

namloc1980 · 20-11-2018 5:15pm

So is this a Eurosceptic group or a place for people to blame others for all their troubles??

j8wk2feszrnpao · 20-11-2018 5:31pm

I don't get the title coupled with the poll.
I've seen the issue discussed, and polls on the matter, so it's not suppressed in the media. It's just that the majority of people don't want it. The only ones I've seen that do, are just Irish versions of Mogg and Johnson; which thankfully we don't have too many of.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 5:32pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

So is this a Eurosceptic group or a place for people to blame others for all their troubles??

I clicked on the link and from what I can see the latest discussion is how poor white people who never did nothing to no-one are the victims of racism.

Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism.. :rolleyes:

Never mind the fact the one of the reasons Europe has been relatively stable for the last few decades (setting what happened the Balkans in the 1990s/ NI up until the Peace Process etc etc) is because of the E.U.

Not so much Politically Incorrect as Historically Incorrect.

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 5:32pm

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't feel any pressure whatsoever on free speech, unless you're referring to the current zeitgeist against being a prick to women and what-have-you.

Oh and, leaving the EU would be a lip-wobblingly, trouser-flappingly, five-star ocean going fuckin' stupid idea with four funnels and the full complement of lifeboats.

Guys you couldn't have added more weight to my argument. Thanks!

<a href="sarcasm" Why should we vote at all? Lets just make it official and let the communists in Brussels run everything. What's the point in trying to live a free life anyway? What a stupid idea. Thanks for putting me straight lads.></a>

20-11-2018 5:36pm

Poor OP. You must have been banned from People's Republic of Cork.
They would have given your poll the respect it deserved and voted as you would have liked. I voted no too like most other boardsies.

Zulu · 20-11-2018 5:38pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism.. :rolleyes:

W. T. F.

Take your pseudo-american guilt, cry it into a Starbucks cup, and take it back with you to the states.

lostinsuperfunk · 20-11-2018 5:40pm

All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones.

The OP seems uncomfortable with some of the viewpoints expressed here

Maybe this is his point?

OP also seems to believe that there are communists everywhere - in Brussels and even running indoctrination camps in UCC

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 5:44pm

How much do you value free speech?

Free speech (including very much your free speech) is fundamentally important to civil society. Without it we are f*cked. Way more than I think you can comprehend.

Not interested in free speech? Then please just be honest and openly admit you're a communist or a fascist. I could respect that a lot more than not admitting it while not supporting free speech. I say this without emotion, angry or otherwise. Just being straight.

SusieBlue · 20-11-2018 5:50pm

Its possible to value free speech and disagree that white people are oppressed in Western society.

satanta99 · 20-11-2018 5:51pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

How much do you value free speech?

Not interested in free speech? Then please just be honest and openly admit you're a communist or a fascist. I could respect that a lot more than not admitting it while not supporting free speech. I say this without emotion, angry or otherwise. Just being straight.

I’ll openly admit I pressed the wrong button. They didn’t give any instructions on how to participate in online polls in all those communist indoctrination classes I attended

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 5:54pm

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

The OP seems uncomfortable with some of the viewpoints expressed here
Maybe this is his point?

OP also seems to believe that there are communists everywhere - in Brussels and even running indoctrination camps in UCC

Yes, I'm uncomfortable with some viewpoints. You're dead right. But I'm not going to take my ball and go away in a huff. That's the whole point. We're all adults, right?

Since you brought up UCC, here's some info about the Student's Union (Which has a muti coloured star for a logo.

The EWG Officers are as follows:

Gender Equality Officer

LGBTQ Rights Officer

Disability Rights Officer

Environmental Officer

Look at all the equality going on there. Wouldn't like to mess with those guys. Sorry girls. Sorry, um.

lostinsuperfunk · 20-11-2018 5:58pm

Where is the Communist Indoctrination Camp Officer? And the anti-free speech officer?

Sorry, I don't see it.

CHealy · 20-11-2018 5:59pm

Are one of these fellas who paint over street names with O'Cadhla and his crew of loonies?

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 6:12pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its possible to value free speech and disagree that white people are oppressed in Western society.

Absolutely Susie.

I didn't intend to bring out that topic but as someone has so kindly done so, here are a few examples that support my point.

Sinead O'Connor said recently that she no longer wants to have anything to do with white people. Must be hard to exist inside a conundrum. anyway..

Don Lemon, news anchor guy in the US said that White Men are the greatest terror threat to the US

New York Times hires Sarah Jeong. I don't really care that she hates white people. She is free to do that all day long. It's just a problem when the NYT supports her rants without challenge. Imagine any other race being singled out. Here's an excerpt from occidentaldissent.com:

“The New York Times’ newest editorial hire has a history of racist tweets against white people.

NYT announced on Wednesday that they hired Sarah Jeong to join their editorial board. Jeong previously wrote for the Verge and authored “The Internet of Garbage,” a book about online harassment and free speech.

Shortly after Jeong’s hire, Twitter users unearthed old tweets in which she expressed an extreme distaste for white people.

“Dumbass f**king white people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants,” she tweeted in 2016.

Another tweet reads, “oh man it’s kind of sick how much joy I get from being cruel to old white men. …”

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 6:15pm

CHealy wrote: »

Are one of these fellas who paint over street names with O'Cadhla and his crew of loonies?

Yes, anyone with a viewpoint you disagree with is a loonie. Just a way to try and shut people up.

I hear this all day and it gets boring.

Well done though. Brave warrior you.

MrStuffins · 20-11-2018 6:19pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

Yes, anyone with a viewpoint you disagree with is a loonie. Just a way to try and shut people up.

"I advocate free speech. Peoples' ideas are being suppressed."

- "Cool. But what's this about leaving the EU? That would be stupid!"

"Exactly my point. You're a communist, a facist and you hate free speech!"

Conchir · 20-11-2018 6:19pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

Yes, I'm uncomfortable with some viewpoints. You're dead right. But I'm not going to take my ball and go away in a huff. That's the whole point. We're all adults, right?

Since you brought up UCC, here's some info about the Student's Union (Which has a muti coloured star for a logo.

Not multicoloured :eek:

mcmoustache · 20-11-2018 6:30pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

So is this a Eurosceptic group or a place for people to blame others for all their troubles??

Sounds like a safe space for people with dumb ideas where their dumb views can go unchallenged. The thinking behind it is straight-forward if you substitute "dumb ideas being challenged" for "censorship".

j8wk2feszrnpao · 20-11-2018 6:33pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism.. :rolleyes:

Ah here. I don't have any guilt for any of those actions, cause they weren't mine. Linking guilt to someones skin colour?
War, slavery, genocide.......... they're not owned by any one particular race.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 20-11-2018 6:36pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

Lets just make it official and let the communists in Brussels run everything. What's the point in trying to live a free life anyway?

What exactly is your definition of a communist?
And you do live a free life, in a free country, in a free EU. Try voicing your anti-establishment rhetoric in a real communist region and see how you get on with your 'freedoms'.

namloc1980 · 20-11-2018 6:58pm

This thread is brilliant. OP is all about attacks on free speech and looking for a place to allow free speech flourish and even had "All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones."

People question the group's motives (is it anti-EU?) expressing their view freely and OP starts to lambast them as closet fascists/communists. Comedy gold in fairness. OP wants free speech, but only the kind he wants to hear.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 7:07pm

Zulu wrote: »

W. T. F.

Take your pseudo-american guilt, cry it into a Starbucks cup, and take it back with you to the states.

Go way ya gowl. :P

snotboogie · 20-11-2018 7:32pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I clicked on the link and from what I can see the latest discussion is how poor white people who never did nothing to no-one are the victims of racism.

Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism.. :rolleyes:

The Japanese started World War 2 as part of their quest to dominate Asia and the Pacific. They invaded China two years before Germany invaded Poland. To say that genocide, conquest and racism are uniquely European traits is to take a very European and American centric view of history. The Mongols conquered, raped and genocided all the way from Korea to Croatia, two hundred years before Columbus discovered America.

What’s even more ridiculous though is to claim that the distant descendants of the serfs who suffered locally, rather than remotely, under the brutal rule of the minority European elite should today shoulder the blame of historical atrocities.

namloc1980 · 20-11-2018 7:35pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

This thread is a response to the overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days, whether we admit it or not.

I run a meetup group in Cork every second Thursday. It's called:

Politically Incorrect

We discuss all kinds of things that are suppressed in the media and generally in society. All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones.

Please share your incorrect thoughts here.

What kind of things do you discuss that are "suppressed" as you put it?

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 7:44pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ah here. I don't have any guilt for any of those actions, cause they weren't mine. Linking guilt to someones skin colour?
War, slavery, genocide.......... they're not owned by any one particular race.

Where did I say you should be guilty?
Or anyone alive now?
Oh right. I didn't.

I simply pointed out the historical fact that white people are not, and have never been, sunshine and lollipops and to claim some global superiority on the basis that in Europe we have managed to stop killing each other for the last 80 odd years* (having gleefully done so for the previous 2000) is ridiculous. Plus much of that lack of killing is down to the existence of the E.U.

Globally White Europeans were rapacious, land grabbing, and genocidal pretty much until we exhausted ourselves with world wars.
Our legacy lived on in places like Australia with the Whites Only Policy and in South Africa with Apartheid.

*excluding the Balkans and N.I. where we haven't hit the 30 year other not killing each other mark yet.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 7:47pm

snotboogie wrote: »

The Japanese started World War 2 as part of their quest to dominate Asia and the Pacific. They invaded China two years before Germany invaded Poland. To say that genocide, conquest and racism are uniquely European traits is to take a very European and American centric view of history. The Mongols conquered, raped and genocided all the way from Korea to Croatia, two hundred years before Columbus discovered America.

What’s even more ridiculous though is to claim that the distant descendants of the serfs who suffered locally, rather than remotely, under the brutal rule of the minority European elite should today shoulder the blame of historical atrocities.

Did I say they were exclusive to White Europeans?

Nope.

We were, however, better than anyone else at it.

The Japanese - for example - utterly failed to create an Empire upon which the sun never set - the Spanish and the British managed it.

snotboogie · 20-11-2018 8:14pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did I say they were exclusive to White Europeans?

Nope.

We were, however, better than anyone else at it.

The Japanese - for example - utterly failed to create an Empire upon which the sun never set - the Spanish and the British managed it.

I don’t think Europeans were much better at empires, a lot of it was right place right time during proto globalism and the sheer luck of the equally or more advanced at the time Chinese neglecting naval technology. The Spanish empire was almost entirely made up of countries who had been isolated from technological advances for thousands of years. The Japanese empire was gained through grueling military campaigns against comparable foes who were well aware of the Japanese military threat. Europe was on top of an ever revolving technological hierarchy at the moment that real globalization became a possibility. Thats it. There is nothing uniquely great or evil about white Europeans.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 8:49pm

snotboogie wrote: »

I don’t think Europeans were much better at empires, a lot of it was right place right time during proto globalism and the sheer luck of the equally or more advanced at the time Chinese neglecting naval technology. The Spanish empire was almost entirely made up of countries who had been isolated from technological advances for thousands of years. The Japanese empire was gained through grueling military campaigns against comparable foes who were well aware of the Japanese military threat. Europe was on top of an ever revolving technological hierarchy at the moment that real globalization became a possibility. Thats it. There is nothing uniquely great or evil about white Europeans.

Ah, but according to the OP in his little "free speech" group White Europeans are better than everyone else - so surely he would enjoy the thought of us being better at trying to take over the world. :P

As for the relative success of empire builders - how many people globally have Japanese as their first language? Now compare that to English and Spanish.

All had mitigating factors - the Spanish had to cross oceans in wooden galleons without the benefit of latitude and longitude readings etc etc.

The British had to sacrifice "missionaries" to the natives so "explorers" could go looking for them and bring "civilisation" in their wake - or (the Dutch did this too) set up private corporations to "trade" who ended up behaving so appallingly that Westminister had to take control. Actually that also happened in the Congo and the Belgian government had to take over - chap called Roger Casement was instrumental in exposing the abuses there.

Regardless of the technological limitations - us White Europeans hold the record for most successful attempts to take over the world.

Sonics2k · 20-11-2018 8:51pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

This thread is a response to the overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days, whether we admit it or not.

I run a meetup group in Cork every second Thursday. It's called:

Politically Incorrect

We discuss all kinds of things that are suppressed in the media and generally in society. All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones.

Please share your incorrect thoughts here.

Honest and genuine question here. Not pissing around, not trolling. Legitimate question

overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days

Can you explain this? I don't understand how free speech in Ireland is under attack in any way.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 20-11-2018 9:12pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Where did I say you should be guilty?
Or anyone alive now?
Oh right. I didn't.

Ah stop with the rubbish.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism..

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Globally White Europeans were rapacious, land grabbing, and genocidal pretty much until we exhausted ourselves with world wars.
Our legacy lived on in places like Australia with the Whites Only Policy and in South Africa with Apartheid.

What's with the we and our legacy? You'd swear that "bad things" were confined to one race or one corner of the World.
Are we supposed to say to the Norwegians and Danes that they should think about what "they" did with their Viking past?
Get over it. Some people did some really sh!tty things to other people, and it's not confined to one race/region. If you want to include yourself in that, ok; but "we" can be left out of it.

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 9:22pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

This thread is brilliant. OP is all about attacks on free speech and looking for a place to allow free speech flourish and even had "All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones."

People question the group's motives (is it anti-EU?) expressing their view freely and OP starts to lambast them as closet fascists/communists. Comedy gold in fairness. OP wants free speech, but only the kind he wants to hear.

I was hoping for some intelligent debate, but unfortunately the tendency is towards ranting. No mention of the examples I gave above. No refutation. No questions of "where did you get that from?"

Just rhetoric.

If I wanted an echo chamber I certainly wouldn't have come here.

namloc1980 · 20-11-2018 9:27pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

.

If I wanted an echo chamber I certainly wouldn't have come here.

Yeah just go to your group every second Thursday for that echo chamber you crave :pac:

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 9:50pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Honest and genuine question here. Not pissing around, not trolling. Legitimate question

Can you explain this? I don't understand how free speech in Ireland is under attack in any way.

On a personal level, I experience on a daily basis that any view that isn't mainstream is shut down in conversation. Any fact that doesn't come down from the Irish Times/ "Independent Media"/ RTE/ other bastions of "balanced reporting" is treated as blasphemy.

Certain people on this island have been murdered, children amongst them. No-one found guilty but politicians and Gardai have been heavily implicated. Some people speaking out about these deaths in ways that didn't suit the authorities have suddenly passed away themselves (by "natural causes" of course).

One of the characteristics of death is that it's known to cause a severe lack of free speech.

Here are but a few samples of what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mISpo3cR0yY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw

I won't even go into my own personal experiences of shocking abuse of power by the Irish State in collusion with business/ other vested interests as they are of much lesser importance.

Please can one person at least come to the defence of free speech, yes- God forbid- even my free speech?

If not, then yes absolutely- choose your label- I'm accusing you of being a Communist or Fascist. They're not meant to be insults, just a means of calling things by their proper name.

If you wish to protest or deny, then please provide what's commonly known as an "argument". Not avoiding the point, not deferring to rhetoric.

Note- I still value your right to free speech and I'm more than happy to have this little chat.

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 9:53pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yeah just go to your group every second Thursday for that echo chamber you crave :pac:

Why not come along then? I'd love to meet you.

I'm completely serious.

We don't get enough dissent in our meetings.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-11-2018 9:55pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

How much do you value free speech?

Free speech (including very much your free speech) is fundamentally important to civil society. Without it we are f*cked. Way more than I think you can comprehend.

Not interested in free speech? Then please just be honest and openly admit you're a communist or a fascist. I could respect that a lot more than not admitting it while not supporting free speech. I say this without emotion, angry or otherwise. Just being straight.

No one's infringing on your free speech. A bunch of morons with coloured hair have been continuously, should continuously and will continue to be told to **** off.

The very fact that you've started a meetup group and started a thread on boards.ie kind of contradicts your point.

EDIT - the youtube videos are 80 mins long. Each. TL,certainly dw. Jist please?

Mardyke · 20-11-2018 9:59pm

Please move this ****e to the Politics forum or the Dublin forum or somewhere else.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-11-2018 10:01pm

Mardyke wrote: »

Please move this ****e to the Politics forum or the Dublin forum or somewhere else.

Dublin?! What's this got to do with Dublin?! Move it to the Galway forum!

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 10:03pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No one's infringing on your free speech. A bunch of morons with coloured hair have been continuously, should continuously and will continue to be told to **** off.

The very fact that you've started a meetup group and started a thread on boards.ie kind of contradicts your point.

EDIT - the youtube videos are 80 mins long. Each. TL,certainly dw. Jist please?

So you value my freedom of speech then?

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 10:10pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ah stop with the rubbish.

What's with the we and our legacy? You'd swear that "bad things" were confined to one race or one corner of the World.
Are we supposed to say to the Norwegians and Danes that they should think about what "they" did with their Viking past?
Get over it. Some people did some really sh!tty things to other people, and it's not confined to one race/region. If you want to include yourself in that, ok; but "we" can be left out of it.

Sweetest divine.

I am simply stating the historical fact that White Europeans went on a sustained colonial rampage - do you deny this?

Yes - other "races" engaged in empire building - however none were globally as "successful" - do you dispute this?

According the the OP in his discussion group he linked - European societies are the bees knees (and I would tend to agree with that) - where I disagree profoundly is any implication that Europe got to be the way it is by pursuing a policy of peace and equality throughout the ages which makes us better than other races
.
We got this way through bloodshed, slavery, exploitation, continual warfare, nationalism, totalitarian regimes, religious wars, witch hunts, colonialism.
We got this way because 2 world wars and millions of deaths in the space of 3 generations gave us a wake up call and we started to try and work together to stop killing each other.

Does that make us better or worse?
No.
I'm not interested in such judgement calls because they are pointless.

What is, imho, "better" is that we learn from our collective past so we don't repeat the mistakes. We've been doing pretty well at that so far...

Mardyke · 20-11-2018 10:11pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dublin?! What's this got to do with Dublin?! Move it to the Galway forum!

Is there a GAA or racist forum??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-11-2018 10:12pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

So you value my freedom of speech then?

Of course. What you're saying is complete bull**** - for reasons I've already stated - but you still have the right to say it. You ARE saying it.

Now, you said you came in here expecting debate: care to counter the points I made or elaborate on the content of the youtube videos you linked to?

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 10:13pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

On a personal level, I experience on a daily basis that any view that isn't mainstream is shut down in conversation. Any fact that doesn't come down from the Irish Times/ "Independent Media"/ RTE/ other bastions of "balanced reporting" is treated as blasphemy.

Certain people on this island have been murdered, children amongst them. No-one found guilty but politicians and Gardai have been heavily implicated. Some people speaking out about these deaths in ways that didn't suit the authorities have suddenly passed away themselves (by "natural causes" of course).

One of the characteristics of death is that it's known to cause a severe lack of free speech.

Here are but a few samples of what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mISpo3cR0yY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw

I won't even go into my own personal experiences of shocking abuse of power by the Irish State in collusion with business/ other vested interests as they are of much lesser importance.

Please can one person at least come to the defence of free speech, yes- God forbid- even my free speech?

If not, then yes absolutely- choose your label- I'm accusing you of being a Communist or Fascist. They're not meant to be insults, just a means of calling things by their proper name.

If you wish to protest or deny, then please provide what's commonly known as an "argument". Not avoiding the point, not deferring to rhetoric.

Note- I still value your right to free speech and I'm more than happy to have this little chat.

I will defend your right to Free Speech.
I will also defend my right to profoundly disagree with everything you say.

(I actually agree with some of the things you say but when people start on about race I'm going to be verrry wary of what agenda is at play).

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 10:15pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

What exactly is your definition of a communist?
And you do live a free life, in a free country, in a free EU. Try voicing your anti-establishment rhetoric in a real communist region and see how you get on with your 'freedoms'.

Voting twice in a referendum is the very essence of totalitarianism. Remember Lisbon 2? We were told "There will be no EU Army. Don't be stupid conspiracy nuts. Now go and vote for Lisbon properly this time!" So we did.... And what did Merkel and Macron just call for the other day? An EU Army.

You do know that there are calls for a second Brexit referendum, right? Call that freedom? What dictionary are you using?

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 10:23pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I will defend your right to Free Speech.
I will also defend my right to profoundly disagree with everything you say.

(I actually agree with some of the things you say but when people start on about race I'm going to be verrry wary of what agenda is at play).

We're in agreement then because they're my sentiments exactly. You're right to be wary of the race thing. But being afraid to talk about it is a huge problem.

Ironically I'm calling out whites for not defending themselves in the very same way I would hope and expect that all people of all colours, creeds and races would.

However it's the creeds I have a problem with- Pretty much all creeds, but some more than others. The ones that promote death I'm particularly opposed to.

namloc1980 · 20-11-2018 10:29pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

Voting twice in a referendum is the very essence of totalitarianism. Remember Lisbon 2? We were told "There will be no EU Army. Don't be stupid conspiracy nuts. Now go and vote for Lisbon properly this time!" So we did.... And what did Merkel and Macron just call for the other day? An EU Army.

You do know that there are calls for a second Brexit referendum, right? Call that freedom? What dictionary are you using?

No it isn't totalitarianism. That's just utter nonsense. Merkel and Macron can call for an EU army all they want, the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the EU requires unanimity from all members. Perhaps you should read up on that.

The Brexit being delivered by May and her fellow incompetents in the UK government is not what many people voted for I suspect. Would you deny a free vote in a referendum on the final outcome?? Sounds like you fancy a bit of the totalitarianism yourself.

Paul Lee · 20-11-2018 10:37pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

No it isn't totalitarianism. That's just utter nonsense. Merkel and Macron can call for an EU army all they want, the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the EU requires unanimity from all members. Perhaps you should read up on that.

The Brexit being delivered by May and her fellow incompetents in the UK government is not what many people voted for I suspect. Would you deny a free vote in a referendum on the final outcome?? Sounds like you fancy a bit of the totalitarianism yourself.

How many votes is good for you then? Should we vote twice every time? Best out of three? Isn't it funny that we only have a second vote when the result is contrary to EU consolidation. Strange coincidence that.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2018 10:38pm

Paul Lee wrote: »

We're in agreement then because they're my sentiments exactly. You're right to be wary of the race thing. But being afraid to talk about it is a huge problem.

Ironically I'm calling out whites for not defending themselves in the very same way I would hope and expect that all people of all colours, creeds and races would.

However it's the creeds I have a problem with- Pretty much all creeds, but some more than others. The ones that promote death I'm particularly opposed to.

For me the problem is that the whole area of defending being white has been hijacked and become White - White Supremacists are, in my mind, just fascists (literally).

Europeans have done some bloody amazing things and some truly awful things - sometimes at the same time.
We have to acknowledge both equally. They made us who and what we are.

I have zero time for anyone saying any one "race" is better than another "race" just because...
We all have good and bad points. We all have thing to take pride in and things we should be ashamed of in our collective past (and present).

Religion I have no time for at all. You don't even want to get me started on that!

Politcally Incorrect

Do you want Ireland to leave the EU? 268 votes

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