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Politcally Incorrect

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I don’t think Europeans were much better at empires, a lot of it was right place right time during proto globalism and the sheer luck of the equally or more advanced at the time Chinese neglecting naval technology. The Spanish empire was almost entirely made up of countries who had been isolated from technological advances for thousands of years. The Japanese empire was gained through grueling military campaigns against comparable foes who were well aware of the Japanese military threat. Europe was on top of an ever revolving technological hierarchy at the moment that real globalization became a possibility. Thats it. There is nothing uniquely great or evil about white Europeans.

    Ah, but according to the OP in his little "free speech" group White Europeans are better than everyone else - so surely he would enjoy the thought of us being better at trying to take over the world. :P

    As for the relative success of empire builders - how many people globally have Japanese as their first language? Now compare that to English and Spanish.

    All had mitigating factors - the Spanish had to cross oceans in wooden galleons without the benefit of latitude and longitude readings etc etc.

    The British had to sacrifice "missionaries" to the natives so "explorers" could go looking for them and bring "civilisation" in their wake - or (the Dutch did this too) set up private corporations to "trade" who ended up behaving so appallingly that Westminister had to take control. Actually that also happened in the Congo and the Belgian government had to take over - chap called Roger Casement was instrumental in exposing the abuses there.

    Regardless of the technological limitations - us White Europeans hold the record for most successful attempts to take over the world. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    This thread is a response to the overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days, whether we admit it or not.

    I run a meetup group in Cork every second Thursday. It's called:

    Politically Incorrect

    We discuss all kinds of things that are suppressed in the media and generally in society. All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones.

    Please share your incorrect thoughts here.

    Honest and genuine question here. Not pissing around, not trolling. Legitimate question
    overwhelming pressure on free speech we all feel these days

    Can you explain this? I don't understand how free speech in Ireland is under attack in any way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Where did I say you should be guilty?
    Or anyone alive now?
    Oh right. I didn't.

    Ah stop with the rubbish.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Sure thing- white Europeans didn't try to take over the world, introduce white only policies in conquered lands, engage in genocide, start not one but 2 World Wars...
    But we haven't done anything recently to deserve criticism..
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Globally White Europeans were rapacious, land grabbing, and genocidal pretty much until we exhausted ourselves with world wars.
    Our legacy lived on in places like Australia with the Whites Only Policy and in South Africa with Apartheid.
    What's with the we and our legacy? You'd swear that "bad things" were confined to one race or one corner of the World.
    Are we supposed to say to the Norwegians and Danes that they should think about what "they" did with their Viking past?
    Get over it. Some people did some really sh!tty things to other people, and it's not confined to one race/region. If you want to include yourself in that, ok; but "we" can be left out of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    This thread is brilliant. OP is all about attacks on free speech and looking for a place to allow free speech flourish and even had "All viewpoints are welcome, especially uncomfortable ones."

    People question the group's motives (is it anti-EU?) expressing their view freely and OP starts to lambast them as closet fascists/communists. Comedy gold in fairness. OP wants free speech, but only the kind he wants to hear.

    I was hoping for some intelligent debate, but unfortunately the tendency is towards ranting. No mention of the examples I gave above. No refutation. No questions of "where did you get that from?"

    Just rhetoric.

    If I wanted an echo chamber I certainly wouldn't have come here. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,075 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    .

    If I wanted an echo chamber I certainly wouldn't have come here. :D

    Yeah just go to your group every second Thursday for that echo chamber you crave :pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Honest and genuine question here. Not pissing around, not trolling. Legitimate question


    Can you explain this? I don't understand how free speech in Ireland is under attack in any way.

    On a personal level, I experience on a daily basis that any view that isn't mainstream is shut down in conversation. Any fact that doesn't come down from the Irish Times/ "Independent Media"/ RTE/ other bastions of "balanced reporting" is treated as blasphemy.

    Certain people on this island have been murdered, children amongst them. No-one found guilty but politicians and Gardai have been heavily implicated. Some people speaking out about these deaths in ways that didn't suit the authorities have suddenly passed away themselves (by "natural causes" of course).

    One of the characteristics of death is that it's known to cause a severe lack of free speech.

    Here are but a few samples of what I mean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mISpo3cR0yY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw

    I won't even go into my own personal experiences of shocking abuse of power by the Irish State in collusion with business/ other vested interests as they are of much lesser importance.

    Please can one person at least come to the defence of free speech, yes- God forbid- even my free speech?

    If not, then yes absolutely- choose your label- I'm accusing you of being a Communist or Fascist. They're not meant to be insults, just a means of calling things by their proper name.

    If you wish to protest or deny, then please provide what's commonly known as an "argument". Not avoiding the point, not deferring to rhetoric.

    Note- I still value your right to free speech and I'm more than happy to have this little chat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Yeah just go to your group every second Thursday for that echo chamber you crave :pac:

    Why not come along then? I'd love to meet you.

    I'm completely serious.

    We don't get enough dissent in our meetings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,072 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    How much do you value free speech?

    Free speech (including very much your free speech) is fundamentally important to civil society. Without it we are f*cked. Way more than I think you can comprehend.

    Not interested in free speech? Then please just be honest and openly admit you're a communist or a fascist. I could respect that a lot more than not admitting it while not supporting free speech. I say this without emotion, angry or otherwise. Just being straight.

    No one's infringing on your free speech. A bunch of morons with coloured hair have been continuously, should continuously and will continue to be told to **** off.

    The very fact that you've started a meetup group and started a thread on boards.ie kind of contradicts your point.

    EDIT - the youtube videos are 80 mins long. Each. TL,certainly dw. Jist please?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Mardyke


    Please move this ****e to the Politics forum or the Dublin forum or somewhere else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,072 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Mardyke wrote: »
    Please move this ****e to the Politics forum or the Dublin forum or somewhere else.

    Dublin?! What's this got to do with Dublin?! Move it to the Galway forum!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    No one's infringing on your free speech. A bunch of morons with coloured hair have been continuously, should continuously and will continue to be told to **** off.

    The very fact that you've started a meetup group and started a thread on boards.ie kind of contradicts your point.

    EDIT - the youtube videos are 80 mins long. Each. TL,certainly dw. Jist please?

    So you value my freedom of speech then?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Ah stop with the rubbish.


    What's with the we and our legacy? You'd swear that "bad things" were confined to one race or one corner of the World.
    Are we supposed to say to the Norwegians and Danes that they should think about what "they" did with their Viking past?
    Get over it. Some people did some really sh!tty things to other people, and it's not confined to one race/region. If you want to include yourself in that, ok; but "we" can be left out of it.

    Sweetest divine.

    I am simply stating the historical fact that White Europeans went on a sustained colonial rampage - do you deny this?

    Yes - other "races" engaged in empire building - however none were globally as "successful" - do you dispute this?

    According the the OP in his discussion group he linked - European societies are the bees knees (and I would tend to agree with that) - where I disagree profoundly is any implication that Europe got to be the way it is by pursuing a policy of peace and equality throughout the ages which makes us better than other races
    .
    We got this way through bloodshed, slavery, exploitation, continual warfare, nationalism, totalitarian regimes, religious wars, witch hunts, colonialism.
    We got this way because 2 world wars and millions of deaths in the space of 3 generations gave us a wake up call and we started to try and work together to stop killing each other.

    Does that make us better or worse?
    No.
    I'm not interested in such judgement calls because they are pointless.

    What is, imho, "better" is that we learn from our collective past so we don't repeat the mistakes. We've been doing pretty well at that so far...


  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Mardyke


    Dublin?! What's this got to do with Dublin?! Move it to the Galway forum!

    Is there a GAA or racist forum??


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,072 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    So you value my freedom of speech then?

    Of course. What you're saying is complete bull**** - for reasons I've already stated - but you still have the right to say it. You ARE saying it.

    Now, you said you came in here expecting debate: care to counter the points I made or elaborate on the content of the youtube videos you linked to?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    On a personal level, I experience on a daily basis that any view that isn't mainstream is shut down in conversation. Any fact that doesn't come down from the Irish Times/ "Independent Media"/ RTE/ other bastions of "balanced reporting" is treated as blasphemy.

    Certain people on this island have been murdered, children amongst them. No-one found guilty but politicians and Gardai have been heavily implicated. Some people speaking out about these deaths in ways that didn't suit the authorities have suddenly passed away themselves (by "natural causes" of course).

    One of the characteristics of death is that it's known to cause a severe lack of free speech.

    Here are but a few samples of what I mean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mISpo3cR0yY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw

    I won't even go into my own personal experiences of shocking abuse of power by the Irish State in collusion with business/ other vested interests as they are of much lesser importance.

    Please can one person at least come to the defence of free speech, yes- God forbid- even my free speech?

    If not, then yes absolutely- choose your label- I'm accusing you of being a Communist or Fascist. They're not meant to be insults, just a means of calling things by their proper name.

    If you wish to protest or deny, then please provide what's commonly known as an "argument". Not avoiding the point, not deferring to rhetoric.

    Note- I still value your right to free speech and I'm more than happy to have this little chat.

    I will defend your right to Free Speech.
    I will also defend my right to profoundly disagree with everything you say.

    (I actually agree with some of the things you say but when people start on about race I'm going to be verrry wary of what agenda is at play).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    What exactly is your definition of a communist?
    And you do live a free life, in a free country, in a free EU. Try voicing your anti-establishment rhetoric in a real communist region and see how you get on with your 'freedoms'.

    Voting twice in a referendum is the very essence of totalitarianism. Remember Lisbon 2? We were told "There will be no EU Army. Don't be stupid conspiracy nuts. Now go and vote for Lisbon properly this time!" So we did.... And what did Merkel and Macron just call for the other day? An EU Army.

    You do know that there are calls for a second Brexit referendum, right? Call that freedom? What dictionary are you using?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I will defend your right to Free Speech.
    I will also defend my right to profoundly disagree with everything you say.

    (I actually agree with some of the things you say but when people start on about race I'm going to be verrry wary of what agenda is at play).

    We're in agreement then because they're my sentiments exactly. You're right to be wary of the race thing. But being afraid to talk about it is a huge problem.

    Ironically I'm calling out whites for not defending themselves in the very same way I would hope and expect that all people of all colours, creeds and races would.

    However it's the creeds I have a problem with- Pretty much all creeds, but some more than others. The ones that promote death I'm particularly opposed to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,075 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    Voting twice in a referendum is the very essence of totalitarianism. Remember Lisbon 2? We were told "There will be no EU Army. Don't be stupid conspiracy nuts. Now go and vote for Lisbon properly this time!" So we did.... And what did Merkel and Macron just call for the other day? An EU Army.

    You do know that there are calls for a second Brexit referendum, right? Call that freedom? What dictionary are you using?

    No it isn't totalitarianism. That's just utter nonsense. Merkel and Macron can call for an EU army all they want, the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the EU requires unanimity from all members. Perhaps you should read up on that.

    The Brexit being delivered by May and her fellow incompetents in the UK government is not what many people voted for I suspect. Would you deny a free vote in a referendum on the final outcome?? Sounds like you fancy a bit of the totalitarianism yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Paul Lee


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    No it isn't totalitarianism. That's just utter nonsense. Merkel and Macron can call for an EU army all they want, the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the EU requires unanimity from all members. Perhaps you should read up on that.

    The Brexit being delivered by May and her fellow incompetents in the UK government is not what many people voted for I suspect. Would you deny a free vote in a referendum on the final outcome?? Sounds like you fancy a bit of the totalitarianism yourself.

    How many votes is good for you then? Should we vote twice every time? Best out of three? Isn't it funny that we only have a second vote when the result is contrary to EU consolidation. Strange coincidence that.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    We're in agreement then because they're my sentiments exactly. You're right to be wary of the race thing. But being afraid to talk about it is a huge problem.

    Ironically I'm calling out whites for not defending themselves in the very same way I would hope and expect that all people of all colours, creeds and races would.

    However it's the creeds I have a problem with- Pretty much all creeds, but some more than others. The ones that promote death I'm particularly opposed to.

    For me the problem is that the whole area of defending being white has been hijacked and become White - White Supremacists are, in my mind, just fascists (literally).

    Europeans have done some bloody amazing things and some truly awful things - sometimes at the same time.
    We have to acknowledge both equally. They made us who and what we are.

    I have zero time for anyone saying any one "race" is better than another "race" just because...
    We all have good and bad points. We all have thing to take pride in and things we should be ashamed of in our collective past (and present).

    Religion I have no time for at all. You don't even want to get me started on that!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,075 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    How many votes is good for you then? Should we vote twice every time? Best out of three? Isn't it funny that we only have a second vote when the result is contrary to EU consolidation. Strange coincidence that.

    So you are in favour of denying the people a vote on the final resolution? Interesting for an advocate of "free speech". :pac: Seems you're all for free speech as long as it is your brand of free Skechers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Okay, let's go through this then.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    On a personal level, I experience on a daily basis that any view that isn't mainstream is shut down in conversation. Any fact that doesn't come down from the Irish Times/ "Independent Media"/ RTE/ other bastions of "balanced reporting" is treated as blasphemy.

    This is nothing to do with Freedom of Speech. The Government is not persecuting, arresting or charging people for 'differing' opinions.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    Certain people on this island have been murdered, children amongst them. No-one found guilty but politicians and Gardai have been heavily implicated. Some people speaking out about these deaths in ways that didn't suit the authorities have suddenly passed away themselves (by "natural causes" of course).

    Nothing to do with Freedom of Speech. Also very much a bipartisan issue, regardless of political leaning.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    One of the characteristics of death is that it's known to cause a severe lack of free speech.

    Here are but a few samples of what I mean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mISpo3cR0yY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw

    Same as the above. Not a freedom of speech issue. This regularly comes up in the news and in the press.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    I won't even go into my own personal experiences of shocking abuse of power by the Irish State in collusion with business/ other vested interests as they are of much lesser importance.

    Please can one person at least come to the defence of free speech, yes- God forbid- even my free speech?

    Again, not seeing an issue with freedom of speech. Nobody is stopping you saying your claims of a cover up and framing of Ian Bailey.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    If not, then yes absolutely- choose your label- I'm accusing you of being a Communist or Fascist. They're not meant to be insults, just a means of calling things by their proper name.

    Say what you want, it's all good. I'm neither. But again, not a freedom of speech issue.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    If you wish to protest or deny, then please provide what's commonly known as an "argument". Not avoiding the point, not deferring to rhetoric.

    Note- I still value your right to free speech and I'm more than happy to have this little chat.

    S'all good. But again, not seeing any restrictions on your freedom of speech.

    However, after reading your Meetup profile and information, might I suggest reading this.
    persecution complex
    noun
    an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecution_complex

    Now, before you get your back up. You're quite right about certain things, going to Saudi Arabia and proclaiming that you're gay is not a good idea.

    However, you decided to post an article from Salon on how bad white people are, yet you seem to have conveniently ignored a similarly despicable article from Breitbart

    http://web.archive.org/web/20160813234401/http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/12/mediagetshb2wrong/
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    Don Lemon, news anchor guy in the US said that White Men are the greatest terror threat to the US

    Statistically speaking, this is 100% accurate. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US have been committed by white, christian males. This is a fact.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    Voting twice in a referendum is the very essence of totalitarianism. Remember Lisbon 2? We were told "There will be no EU Army. Don't be stupid conspiracy nuts. Now go and vote for Lisbon properly this time!" So we did.... And what did Merkel and Macron just call for the other day? An EU Army.

    I don't think you know what totalitarianism means. Hint: You don't get to vote.

    Merkel and Macron have called for member states of the EU to combine their armed forces or to set up a 'new' EU army.

    Hint, there's been a Nordic Battlegroup that Ireland has been a part of for some 10 years now. There's also been an EU Battlegroup for longer, Ireland also takes part in that.

    Again, none of this is a free speech issue. You have the absolute right to protest or disagree with it.
    Paul Lee wrote: »
    You do know that there are calls for a second Brexit referendum, right? Call that freedom? What dictionary are you using?

    Yup, -some- people in Britain have said it may be worth having another referendum after it was proven, without a shadow of a doubt that key members of the leave party lied to the British public.

    Here's Nadine Norris, a British MP who campaigned to leave the EU complaining about losing the right to vote in the EU

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nadie-dorries-slams-brexit-deal-leave-remain-jk-rowling-a8639216.html

    Again though. Not a single Freedom of Speech issue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I am simply stating the historical fact that White Europeans went on a sustained colonial rampage - do you deny this?
    No, bizarre that you think otherwise given I said some did.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Yes - other "races" engaged in empire building - however none were globally as "successful" - do you dispute this?
    Yeah, they were "better". So what? They had the means to be "better". Again, so what? Give Genghis Khan firearms and the ability to move across land other than by horseback, and there'd be even more direct line descendants from his Mongolian Empire.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    According the the OP .......
    The OP is full of crap. Apparently the EU is Communist, there's no free speech and voting twice equals totalitarianism :rolleyes:
    I'm all for free speech (and I've no problem with criticism of the over the top PC brigade), it allows the weirdo's to be identified easily.

    Poll so far (108 votes) is 89% in favor of not leaving the EU.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    No, bizarre that you think otherwise given I said some did.

    Yeah, they were "better". So what? They had the means to be "better". Again, so what? Give Genghis Khan firearms and the ability to move across land other than by horseback, and there'd be even more direct line descendants from his Mongolian Empire.


    The OP is full of crap. Apparently the EU is Communist, there's no free speech and voting twice equals totalitarianism :rolleyes:
    I'm all for free speech (and I've no problem with criticism of the over the top PC brigade), it allows the weirdo's to be identified easily.

    Poll so far (108 votes) is 89% in favor of not leaving the EU.

    Seriously, if you want an extended debate on the relative merits (or lack of) various attempts by various peoples to build empires maybe start a thread. Could be an interesting discussion.

    But as regards this thread:
    I made a point.
    I clarified my point.
    I clarified my clarification.

    I'm done with that now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    I was hoping for some intelligent debate, but unfortunately the tendency is towards ranting. No mention of the examples I gave above. No refutation. No questions of "where did you get that from?"

    Just rhetoric.

    If I wanted an echo chamber I certainly wouldn't have come here. :D

    You shouted "fascist" and "communist" when people disagreed with your sentiments.... Sounds like you want an echo chamber and to feel a bit hard done by.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Seriously, if you want an extended debate on the relative merits (or lack of) various attempts by various peoples to build empires maybe start a thread. Could be an interesting discussion.

    But as regards this thread:
    I made a point.
    I clarified my point.
    I clarified my clarification.

    I'm done with that now.
    :rolleyes:
    Christ, get over yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    :rolleyes:
    Christ, get over yourself.

    I'd actually commend her for your patience, you've demonstrated an incredible degree of ignorance of history.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    batgoat wrote: »
    I'd actually commend her for your patience, you've demonstrated an incredible degree of ignorance of history.
    Such as, or are you unable to provide an example?
    Bannasidhe went on a tirade of White Europeans, and I give one example (Khan) of others and I should start another thread because of it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    From what I have observed, political correctness is a tool of the left. Most people understand the need for economic discipline but they may be women who get paid less than men or newbies who do the same work as the middle aged for less than half the pay. The left promise equality (but they always do so by demanding more for the underdog rather than the fiscally responsible alternative of less for the incumbents). Consequently, equality and fiscal indiscipline go hand in hand.

    There are so many minorities the left can appeal to, the old, the young, the LGBT people, the migrants who manage to get the vote, the traveler community and so on.

    However, I know leftists who publicly tend to be embrace these minorities (which collectively make a majority) but who tend to express very intolerant, non pc views in private. In other words, I suspect political correctness has a thick layer of political opportunism in it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,642 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think all rapists and paedophiles should be castrated.
    I think that no money should be given to people on long term social welfare. They should get what they need to survive, like food and clothes etc. No money though because that can be spent on drink, cigarettes, drugs and\or gambling.
    Cyclists should have to do a theory test and a cycling test to ensure they are capable of cycling on public roads. They should have to have third party insurance at a minimum to cycle on public roads.
    Travellers should not get any more money from the state because they have an ethnic standing.
    Any non-national who is on social welfare for more than 24 months should be turfed out of the country.


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