The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Foxtrol · 19-11-2018 8:30pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

I do think every team should have a QB on their practice squad. The coach’s see him every day in their system and true most will get cut and never make the grade but you may find a gem for only 90k a year. Why wouldn’t a GM try sure

Makes sense in some ways but the practice squad QBs get very few reps for teams to improve or teams to make a better assessment on them. It has somewhat worked out for the 49ers but they had Nick Mullens on their practice squad last year and he ended up spending time on the scout team playing safety. You need players that a totally under the radar and won't get picked up

Billy86 · 19-11-2018 11:45pm

jack presley wrote: »

And when the Redskins play Dallas on Thursday, it will be 6 years to the day since......

Twenty years from now you could randomly shout "Butt fumble!" in public and so long as there was someone over 40 who watches the sport within earshot, they'd know exactly what you meant.

If there wasn't... well you'd just look like a weirdo.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 20-11-2018 10:48am

eagle eye wrote: »

When a guy decides to sit out a full season you have to question that. The reasons being that he is making it clear that it's all about money for him now. When it's all about the money you have to wonder if the guy will give it has all or will he turn into the type that will be more interested in protecting himself to elongate his career.
There have been plenty of sitouts which have went all the way through OTA's, TC and the preseason and that's fine but when you start to miss regular season games it becomes a problem, when it becomes a full season it raises these questions.

Have to question what exactly? Bell gave the Steelers plenty of notice he wanted a long term contract or he would sit out. Bell is 100% correct. Imagine playing a year on €14m and getting an injury like Alex Smith got yesterday?

The franchise tag is bull**** from a players perspective and the players association should try to get rid of it. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and Bell is treating it as that. Fair play to him.

thomond2006 · 20-11-2018 10:54am

Bucs going back to Winston. They will be on the hook for USD 20.99m next year if gets injured. Bizarre move.

Hazys · 20-11-2018 3:25pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Have to question what exactly? Bell gave the Steelers plenty of notice he wanted a long term contract or he would sit out. Bell is 100% correct. Imagine playing a year on €14m and getting an injury like Alex Smith got yesterday?

The franchise tag is bull**** from a players perspective and the players association should try to get rid of it. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and Bell is treating it as that. Fair play to him.

Earl Thomes held out looking for a new contract but came back and suffered a serious injury. His market value has plummeted.

I don't blame Bell one bit for doing what he is doing.

For some reason teams are allowed to cut and trade players willy nilly or franchise them and that's cool but if a player makes a business decision he's questioned. Franchises are set for life financially but players may not even get that one opportunity to make their market value.

raze_them_all_ · 20-11-2018 5:52pm

Franchise tag.

We don't want to pay you, but we don't want anyone else to pay you.

adrian522 · 20-11-2018 7:34pm

Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.

raze_them_all_ · 20-11-2018 8:13pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.

They didnt want to pay kirk cousins twice. Tag him.

Hazys · 20-11-2018 9:09pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Franchise Tag is the average salary of the top 5 players of his position or 120% of his previous salary. It's a good bit of money usually.

Players union agreed to it obviously. It's also used where they want time to negotiate with a player for a further extension or if they want to try and trade a player.

It's not a case of they don't want to pay a player or they don't want anyone else to pay him. Its they want to keep a player and they haven't worked out a long term deal. It's usually more expensive to Tag a player than pay him a long term deal.

The NFL were bastards when negotiating the CBA with the NFL PA. Everything the NFL PA asked for, the NFL wanted something huge in return. If the NFL PA asked to get rid of the franchise tag, it wouldn't have surprised me if the NFL would have swapped it for an 18 game season.

Just because the NFL PA agreed to the Franchise tag, doesn't mean they like it.

The tag being the average salary of the top 5 players for that position or 120% of his previous salary for 1 season, is a minuscule amount compared to the amount of money they get in FA. Kirk Cousins got $23m guaranteed with the Franchise Tag, he got $84m guaranteed in FA almost 4x as much.

adrian522 · 20-11-2018 9:33pm

Hazys wrote: »

The NFL were bastards when negotiating the CBA with the NFL PA. Everything the NFL PA asked for, the NFL wanted something huge in return. If the NFL PA asked to get rid of the franchise tag, it wouldn't have surprised me if the NFL would have swapped it for an 18 game season.

Just because the NFL PA agreed to the Franchise tag, doesn't mean they like it.

The tag being the average salary of the top 5 players for that position or 120% of his previous salary for 1 season, is a minuscule amount compared to the amount of money they get in FA. Kirk Cousins got $23m guaranteed with the Franchise Tag, he got $84m guaranteed in FA almost 4x as much.

That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?

Hazys · 20-11-2018 9:39pm

adrian522 wrote: »

That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?

$84m fully guaranteed at signing. He turned down $90m fully guaranteed from the Jets. Obviously he doesn't get paid $84m on day 1, its spread out over 3 years no matter if his arm fell off on day 2. Its like an NBA contract.

MileHighGuy · 20-11-2018 9:59pm

The idea of the franchise tag started benignly enough, originally during the advent of free agency, the owners were largely resigned to the fact it was coming in and were able to negotiate a salary cap in return for giving the players free agency. Owners, argued there should be a clause/exemption within free agency that would allow teams to protect their Franchise player, normally a star QB or RB ....apparently Pat Bowlen was to have said, I can't lose John Elway to free agency, and it was loosely referred to as "the Elway Rule" within the negotiations.

So the idea behind it was probably sound, the owners knew some players *were* essentially the franchise. Now whether the owners knew ahead of time how it could be used as leverage in negotiations down the line is debatable, but even in the early years of free agency a lot of, what I would deem, non-franchise-type players were tagged.

Once teams started using the franchise tag on kickers, punters and bit-part role players, it displayed how disingenuously the teams were using the designation. Now with all that being said, it only affects a handful of players every year, and any player that plays under the tag is heftily compensated, so I'd imagine it will be unlikely to be negotiated out of any future agreements.

Billy86 · 20-11-2018 10:24pm

Im torn on the tag... It basically allows the club to 'cheat' at the game of chicken that contract negotiations are which is an unfair disadvantage but does pay well and fills a purpose as an emergency measure.

The second tag though is nothing more than a bad joke.

Billy86 · 20-11-2018 10:27pm

adrian522 wrote: »

That $84m, how much is fully guaranteed? Because unless he got it on day 1 its not guaranteed. How much did he get per year?

If I'm correct, all of it is guaranteed. It was the most guaranteed money ever when signed, and was a pretty big story that it was all (or almost all) guaranteed.

raze_them_all_ · 20-11-2018 10:42pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Im torn on the tag... It basically allows the club to 'cheat' at the game of chicken that contract negotiations are which is an unfair disadvantage but does pay well and fills a purpose as an emergency measure.

The second tag though is nothing more than a bad joke.

Franchise tag should be a two way system. We would like to franchise tag you as we would like longer to work out a contract. If the player agrees then grand tag away, if not too bad. It's not as if teams don't know when your tag is up. Imagine if you joined a new job and you got a massive money offer when your contract was up and your boss magically got to keep you without you having a say

Foxtrol · 21-11-2018 2:30am

As is probably obvious by now, I really dislike franchise tags but I understand why they're there and unlikely to go away at the next CBA, as it impacts so few players that it won't be a focus of discussions.

Franchise tags should be treated like 5th rookie options. If you tag a player for the year you guarantee the player's contract for that year, as they currently do, however if the player gets injured and can't pass a medical at the start of the next year they get a 2nd year guaranteed at the franchise rate. It reduces some risk off the player and by shifting it to the team they would be less likely to flog a franchised player, like Bell feared would happen.

jack presley · 21-11-2018 12:04pm

LA Rams vs KC Chiefs - 455 total yards, 54 points

TB Bucs v Redskins - 501 total yards, 3 points

Hazys · 21-11-2018 4:59pm

jack presley wrote: »

LA Rams vs KC Chiefs - 455 total yards, 54 points

TB Bucs v Redskins - 501 total yards, 3 points

I was actually at that game...it was awful. Sitting in 30C heat, watching the Bucs give up turnover after turnover and missed FG after FG, garbage game...at least the stadium is nice

Paully D · 21-11-2018 6:44pm

Have a read of this. Warren has been banging this drum for a while now:

https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1065261389185470464?s=21

Billy86 · 21-11-2018 7:36pm

Hazys wrote: »

I was actually at that game...it was awful. Sitting in 30C heat, watching the Bucs give up turnover after turnover and missed FG after FG, garbage game...at least the stadium is nice

Raymond James? That's where I saw my first game, right near the pirate ship back in 2002 (Packers fans know it was 'the Warren Sapp chop block game'). Nice layout but some of the surrounding area is... interesting.

One of the worst games of Favres career, along with the other GB game I got to being the biggest loss on MNF history (48-3). On the plus side it was 2005 and they benched Favre in the 4th for some rookie from California called Aaron Somethingorother for his first passing attempts of his career.

I'm slightly cursed though. No joke, a friend has been on the dublin GAA team for about a decade and before the 2011 season informally banned me from crocker because they lost every game I went through. Fast forward 7 years and... Well I like to think I did my part for those Sam trophies. :pac:

mikemac2 · 21-11-2018 7:50pm

Paully D wrote: »

Have a read of this. Warren has been banging this drum for a while now:

https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1065261389185470464?s=21

Same play calls every series and horrible clock management. And your QB hits his teammates helmets with the ball. :pac: That twitter rips apart the Jags in only four tweets, it's shocking that they haven't sorted the exact same issues from last season. It's not even a talent issue, it could be fixed instantly

I wonder how the Jaguars D feel about their careers been wasted

Knex* · 21-11-2018 11:51pm

https://twitter.com/KeithBritton86/status/1065311218351697920?s=19

Video here from 3:07. His smirk makes it.

Paully D · 23-11-2018 10:02am

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1065690716951756800?s=21

20 years ago, crazy!

brinty · 23-11-2018 3:10pm

Paully D wrote:

20 years ago, crazy!

It is surely PaullyD but that locker room was toxic and throwing Moss into it would've been terrible for his career. He might never gave been as good as he was had the h cowboys selected him

Lionbacker · 23-11-2018 4:05pm

Paully D wrote: »

20 years ago, crazy!

God, I thought Joe Buck was bad. You wouldn't know a TD was scored, if you were to just go on the complete lack of emotion in the commentator's voice.

Itssoeasy · 23-11-2018 5:46pm

Lionbacker wrote: »

God, I thought Joe Buck was bad. You wouldn't know a TD was scored, if you were to just go on the complete lack of emotion in the comentator's voice.

Emotion in a comentators voice is okay to a point but the NFL offficial YouTube channel have put up a load of full games in perfect quality and you can see the envolution of the commentator. I like commentators to be like a contestant on the TV show "catchphrase" and say what you see. The outside stuff isn't apealing to me.

Paully D · 23-11-2018 6:22pm

https://twitter.com/robertklemko/status/1065992537691705344?s=21

Not this ****e again.

kmart6 · 23-11-2018 6:25pm

Paully D wrote: »

Not this ****e again.

Well I suppose they had to move on from the 'Duke would beat the Cavs' talk after the other night.

Christy42 · 24-11-2018 12:13pm

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/robertklemko/status/1065992537691705344?s=21

Not this ****e again.

Ask a sportsman about their odds and they will say they will win. It is in their make up. It is part of what makes them good.

I bet Brady would claim he could beat the youngsters when he is 70.

That said it is obviously bull. Bama would be lucky not to go 0-16 with the easiest schedule imaginable. Even then the possible 1 win would be a case of everything going right for them and bad for the Raiders or whoever.

Blut2 · 24-11-2018 5:07pm

As someone puts it in the article: "in a good year Bama have 10 NFL quality players. The worst NFL team has 52 NFL quality players".

No matter how good the coaching in Bama they just couldn't cut it in the NFL because of that quality gap. I'd say best case scenario they might eek out one win a year against the likes of the Browns in previous years or this years Raiders or Giants due to being more disciplined/better coached if less skilled. But thats about it.

Realt Dearg Sec · 24-11-2018 5:16pm

They haven't even won the college championship yet ffs. Last time I heard they would beat half the NFL deshaun Watson made fools of the lot of them.

helimachoptor · 24-11-2018 5:43pm

Blut2 wrote: »

As someone puts it in the article: "in a good year Bama have 10 NFL quality players. The worst NFL team has 52 NFL quality players".

No matter how good the coaching in Bama they just couldn't cut it in the NFL because of that quality gap. I'd say best case scenario they might eek out one win a year against the likes of the Browns in previous years or this years Raiders or Giants due to being more disciplined/better coached if less skilled. But thats about it.

I wouldn't be so sure. Look how many of those 53 players are out of the league within a year or 2.

However in saying thqt, the physicality imho is a significant step above college ball.

Billy86 · 25-11-2018 6:20pm

For all their bragging, Alabama would have got demolished by that 2001 Miami team. Forget 10 NFL quality players in a year, that team had 38 who would go on to the NFL, and 17(!) in the first round. Of those, a dozen would become Pro Bowlers and 3-4 are either dead certs (Ed Reed, Frank Gore) or have good shots (Vince Wilfork, Andre Johnson) at the Hall of Fame.

Alabama is famed for it's running game, with a little infamy that those same backs sometimes struggle to do as well in the NFL (Eddie Lacy, Trent Richardson most notably). Well the running backs on that Miami Hurricanes roster would go on to total 34,769 rushing yards between them in their NFL careers... if Gore can pick up another 231 yards before the end of the season, they'll have topped 35,000 - that is absolutely f***ing insane. (Frank Gore - 14,554yds and counting, Clinton Portis - 9,923yds, Willis McGahee - 8,474yds, Najeh Davenport - 1,819yds). They also combine for over 7,500 receiving yards...

Oh, and Ed Reed/Sean Taylor in terms of talent has an argument that it would have been the best safety pairing the NFL has ever seen. If Taylor wasn't killed, he'd likely have made his way up with Wilfork/Johnson on the 'possible future HOFer' list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Miami_Hurricanes_football_team#Roster

Paully D · 25-11-2018 9:55pm

https://twitter.com/jasonlacanfora/status/1066683414785462273?s=21

Good Lord.

Knex* · 26-11-2018 3:11pm

I don't understand how anybody can take him seriously.

The NFL really does have a mental case of nepotism, with a jobs for the boys attitude being rife throughout franchises.

Knex* · 26-11-2018 4:50pm

This guy says it better

https://twitter.com/RotoPat/status/1066766163810619393

Oat23 · 26-11-2018 4:58pm

They kept showing the Mayfield/Hue handshake and hug attempt on a loop on GMFB today and I'm still cringing.

They really hate him for going to Cincy.

jack presley · 26-11-2018 5:05pm

Oat23 wrote: »

They kept showing the Mayfield/Hue handshake and hug attempt on a loop on GMFB today and I'm still cringing.

They really hate him for going to Cincy.

To be fair to Jackson though, when the Bengals called he could hardly say “No thanks, I’ve got Bill Belichick on the other line”. I don’t think there were too many offers coming his way. Beggars can’t be choosers and all that.

Oat23 · 26-11-2018 5:11pm

jack presley wrote: »

To be fair to Jackson though, when the Bengals called he could hardly say “No thanks, I’ve got Bill Belichick on the other line”. I don’t think there were too many offers coming his way. Beggars can’t be choosers and all that.

True but you can understand why some Browns players aren't alright with it. Mayfield said something like "He was in our locker room asking us to play for him then he goes to a team we play twice a year."

OOnegative · 26-11-2018 5:16pm

Nathaniel Hackett given his marching orders in Jacksonville.

Knex* · 26-11-2018 5:17pm

Oat23 wrote: »

True but you can understand why some Browns players aren't alright with it. Mayfield said something like "He was in our locker room asking us to play for him then he goes to a team we play twice a year."

I somewhat took that as the PC reason he was giving the media. I don't think he liked or respected Hue as a coach at all.

OOnegative wrote: »

Nathaniel Hackett given his marching orders in Jacksonville.

Bit of a poisoned chalice when your QB is Bortles on a new contract. However, its about time. There's been numerous articles about how predictable and timid they are - such as the Patriots playoff game last year.

Itssoeasy · 26-11-2018 7:25pm

When did the Texans owner die and how come I didn't hear about it during the eagles game yesterday ?

BonnieSituation · 26-11-2018 7:40pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

When did the Texans owner die and how come I didn't hear about it during the eagles game yesterday ?

Died on Friday Thanksgiving I think . He was mentioned during Broncos-Steelers.

Itssoeasy · 26-11-2018 7:47pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Died on Friday Thanksgiving I think . He was mentioned during Broncos-Steelers.

Yeah I've just checked and it was Friday. He wasn't mentioned in the Giants eagles game as far as I can recall.

gstack166 · 26-11-2018 8:27pm

https://twitter.com/dustinfox37/status/1067133736393867264?s=21

I love Baker! I’m a Browns fan, but this beef with Hue, he’s out of line IMO.

The man needed a job, he has said numerous times he’s feels at home in Ohio, rumours are he was told he’ll get the HC job when Marvin Lewis retires. It was a no brainier for him!

No problem with Baker just not liking Hue, I wasn’t his biggest fan either, but to throw digs at him for taking a job, which he needed to do ASAP so people don’t remember him as Browns HC as much or as often, hard as that will be able to do, is a bit out of line for me.

Realt Dearg Sec · 26-11-2018 9:05pm

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dustinfox37/status/1067133736393867264?s=21

I love Baker! I’m a Browns fan, but this beef with Hue, he’s out of line IMO.

The man needed a job, he has said numerous times he’s feels at home in Ohio, rumours are he was told he’ll get the HC job when Marvin Lewis retires. It was a no brainier for him!

No problem with Baker just not liking Hue, I wasn’t his biggest fan either, but to throw digs at him for taking a job, which he needed to do ASAP so people don’t remember him as Browns HC as much or as often, hard as that will be able to do, is a bit out of line for me.

Is he seriously angry with Jackson for going to a rival? He has a serious amount to learn about the business of the NFL, and the nature of careers and life in general, if he thinks anyone would, or should, turn down a job because they are a rival of his old team.

Let alone the fact that he was fired! I mean, does he think that Jackson owes the Browns some kind of loyalty? He needed a job, should he uproot his whole family to another part of the country just because the Bengals and the Browns are supposed to "hate" each other? I look forward to Mayfield refusing to countenance any division rivals if he ever finds himself being cut by the Browns.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 26-11-2018 9:26pm

Is that the reason Mayfield is pissed though? I heard that Hue said something about all the QBs he should've picked over Mayfield, and basically that wasn't the only time he threw his players under the bus as a reason for his failures. Also many in the Browns aren't happy with Hue with comments he made after his sacking, or so I hear anyway.
Can totally understand Mayfield's ill-feeling towards Hue if that is true. If it is the 'joining a rivals' thing then yea, it's a bit pathetic.

Paully D · 26-11-2018 9:30pm

I’m sure Mayfield will be turning down a job if he ever finds himself in the position of needing to and being offered one? :rolleyes:

I like him, thought he was the best QB in last year’s draft by a long way, but this trying to create drama when there isn’t any and tough guy act to propel his name in the spotlight with a “look how much Baker cares/is driven to win” thing is stupid in the extreme.

gstack166 · 26-11-2018 9:31pm

Can’t possibly be joining a rival thing. Baker left Texas for Oklahoma, 2 schools in the same division!

He’s making it out to be it’s because he joined the Bengals, just think he’d get more respect calling out Hue for what really has made him dislike the man.

Personally I’d say Baker feels wronged. He never got a look in for the starters job when it clear he was the better QB & was ready to start in pre season.

Paully D · 26-11-2018 9:33pm

Also Baker is wrong when he says he and Hue’s situations aren’t comparable.

Baker wasn’t going to get a scholarship, and Hue wasn’t going to have a job.

Very fair comparison IMO.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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