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Going MultiSat

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  • 16-06-2014 11:25am
    #1
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    Currently have Sky Dish at 28.2 feeding a VU+ solo2 but looking at going the mulit sat option. I really like HD .. who doesnt :)

    I am thinking of a Wavefronter T90 dish and multi lnb setup.

    I have been advised that 19, 13, 23, 28 are worth looking at in relation to channels but havent a clue whats out there etc.

    I know I could figure out by looking at kingofsat etc. but what are people generally watching on their multi sat systems?

    I'd like to be able to watch movies and sports in HD and if that means buying a relevant package etc so be it

    Cheers,
    Mick


«134567

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    #2
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    Have you thought about a motorised set up, 0.8w has a fair bit of English content.


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    #3
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    the T90 can cover up to 40 degrees, so pointing the dish at 13 you will be able to pick up most TPs on Thor and if you are lucky the elusive Nordic beam (if you are in NE of the country)

    imo motorised is just too slow, I prefer the instant channel change of multi lNBs


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    #4
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Yes I wouldnt have patience for motorised, I'm in Lusk so hopefully might get the nodic beams?

    I'm hoping to buy the T90 and lnbs bit by bit over the summer, so if i buy the dish, how many and what sort of lnbs should i be looking at?

    Cheers,
    Mick


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    #5
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    I have a Inverto Black Ultra for Thor and everything else is a mixture from cheap LNBs to bog standard Sky quads

    I would just start with 13 \ 19 \ 23 \ 28

    then you buy more LNBs in the future, the dish will be on the correct arc so you can just slide them on to add another Sat as you wish


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    #6
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thanks,

    Should i be looking at single, quad or twin lnbs?
    kingtiger wrote: »
    I have a Inverto Black Ultra for Thor and everything else is a mixture from cheap LNBs to bog standard Sky quads

    I would just start with 13 \ 19 \ 23 \ 28

    then you buy more LNBs in the future, the dish will be on the correct arc so you can just slide them on to add another Sat as you wish


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    #7
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    micks_address wrote: »
    Thanks,

    Should i be looking at single, quad or twin lnbs?

    depends what you want, if you want to watch one channel while recording another on the same sat you will need a twin or quad

    do you have two receivers?

    its really up to yourself what you want to do, start with four and work your way up :)


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    #8
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I only have two cables to my solo2 - i have one going to my tv for freesat, so im guessing quad lnbs? I'd like it all to look the same.. so stick with the Inverto Black Ultra quads for all or would it be overkill?
    kingtiger wrote: »
    depends what you want, if you want to watch one channel while recording another on the same sat you will need a twin or quad

    do you have two receivers?

    its really up to yourself what you want to do, start with four and work your way up :)


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    #9
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    expensive LNBs are only worth it for fringe reception sats

    28 \ 19 \ 13 are strong sats and you will pick them up with a cheapo LNB no problem on a T90, you will also have to factor in DiSEqC switches for switching between multi LNBs

    so get a quad for 28 so you will have enough points for your VU and freesat box and the rest can be singles


  • Options
    #10
    Zardoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    T90 is a great dish but just bear in mind it is very heavy and ideally ground mounted .


  • Options
    #11
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    If you are going to get a wavefrontier, do not buy cheap or large lnbs with large feed horns on them. It defeats the purpose. You need skinny lnbs for the sat positions close together. Black Ultras have very large feed horns. You will not get 3 degree spacing with them.

    You need to be thinking of ALPS or Inverto thin LNBs. They are not that much more expensive anyhow. The new gold lnbs are quite small and thin also and are not dear.

    The more LNBs means the bigger diseqc switch. If you only intend on having less than 8 lnbs on it, then you can get yourself two 8x1 diseqc's which will cover two boxes.

    IMO opinion, there is nothing these days on 19E or 16E that interests me due to the language spoken, mainly german and french.

    The feeds for football games/sport in general are on 7E, 10E, 0.8E and 23.5E. 27.5 and 37.5W are also used.


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    #12
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Yes about skinny lnbs, but starting off and keeping costs down IMO go for cheapos and replace as time goes by

    There is lots on 19e, you can change the language on most HD movie channels

    But that's up to whatever package you choose


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    #13
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    Wavefrontier T90.

    Satellite positions 4.8East across to 46East covered - dish prime-focused around the 23.5 mark but not spot on it.

    They're all standard-sized LNBs with one or two black ultras in there. Wavefrontier advise a 4 degree spacing between satellites, I have managed 3 degrees and it's worth the perseverance.

    Satellites at 4.8, 9/10, 13, 16, 19, 23.5. 28.2, 39, 42, 45/46 received.

    7 East would also be possible if both 4.8 and 9 weren't there. In other words it's EITHER 7 East OR 4.8 and 9. A narrow LNB might squeeze in but won't get everything so not worth it.

    Avoid those narrow LNBs if you can - you will lose signal even in the lightest of rain on many satellites (had a nightmare even on a prime-focus 80cm Hotbird - and couldn't get certain transponders even in the best of weathers on a prime-focus 1.2m pointed at 0.8west with a Gold skinny LNB). Use these only if absolutely necessary. The Gold skinny ultra will work on 28.2 but this is only necessary if you want 26.

    Depending on location 26East is not worth putting an LNB in for. It might be ok on a day like today but I lost signal with just heavy rain cloud. Only BADR4 is possible one way or another.

    The satellites:

    You'll only get the wider European beam on 4.8.

    I had Eutelsat 9East with perfect reception - replaced that with a Saorsat LNB, again no issues. (I lost the couple of transponders I could get on 10E with the 9East LNB of course but no huge loss unless you want FTA 3pm Saturday PL)

    Hotbird, Eutelsat 16East, Astra 19.2 all beaming in - no issues with closeness of LNBs.

    23.5 and 28.2 obviously beaming in.

    An Ultra Black Inverto made a huge difference on 39East to the transponders I was losing in heavy rain.

    I get most of the western beam on 42 East but can lose some of the weaker transponders in rain (haven't switched LNB to an Inverto yet).

    45 East beams in, some channels on 46 East come in - obviously both on the same LNB with a bit of tweaking to get it into optimal position.


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    #14
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thanks,

    I'm sorted on the disk and bracket i think but a bit lost on the lnb situation..

    Would you mind linking me to the lnbs that you are using and how you have it setup maybe a picture or something?

    Sorry for being such a noob

    Cheers,
    Mick
    radiowaves wrote: »
    Wavefrontier T90.

    Satellite positions 4.8East across to 46East covered - dish prime-focused around the 23.5 mark but not spot on it.

    They're all standard-sized LNBs with one or two black ultras in there. Wavefrontier advise a 4 degree spacing between satellites, I have managed 3 degrees and it's worth the perseverance.

    Satellites at 4.8, 9/10, 13, 16, 19, 23.5. 28.2, 39, 42, 45/46 received.

    7 East would also be possible if both 4.8 and 9 weren't there. In other words it's EITHER 7 East OR 4.8 and 9. A narrow LNB might squeeze in but won't get everything so not worth it.

    Avoid those narrow LNBs if you can - you will lose signal even in the lightest of rain on many satellites (had a nightmare even on a prime-focus 80cm Hotbird - and couldn't get certain transponders even in the best of weathers on a prime-focus 1.2m pointed at 0.8west with a Gold skinny LNB). Use these only if absolutely necessary. The Gold skinny ultra will work on 28.2 but this is only necessary if you want 26.

    Depending on location 26East is not worth putting an LNB in for. It might be ok on a day like today but I lost signal with just heavy rain cloud. Only BADR4 is possible one way or another.

    The satellites:

    You'll only get the wider European beam on 4.8.

    I had Eutelsat 9East with perfect reception - replaced that with a Saorsat LNB, again no issues. (I lost the couple of transponders I could get on 10E with the 9East LNB of course but no huge loss unless you want FTA 3pm Saturday PL)

    Hotbird, Eutelsat 16East, Astra 19.2 all beaming in - no issues with closeness of LNBs.

    23.5 and 28.2 obviously beaming in.

    An Ultra Black Inverto made a huge difference on 39East to the transponders I was losing in heavy rain.

    I get most of the western beam on 42 East but can lose some of the weaker transponders in rain (haven't switched LNB to an Inverto yet).

    45 East beams in, some channels on 46 East come in - obviously both on the same LNB with a bit of tweaking to get it into optimal position.


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    #15
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    micks_address wrote: »
    Thanks,

    I'm sorted on the disk and bracket i think but a bit lost on the lnb situation..

    Would you mind linking me to the lnbs that you are using and how you have it setup maybe a picture or something?

    Sorry for being such a noob

    Cheers,
    Mick

    If you're a noob I'd advise getting a professional installer to set it up for you, then you can get your hands dirty afterwards and play around with it. It'll save you much heartache!

    Amazon were doing a great deal on Black Inverto Ultras not so long ago

    https://www.google.ie/search?client=opera&q=Black+Inverto+Ultras&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    - type that into a search engine and buy about as many as the satellites you hope to receive. If the Amazon deal is still on you won't get cheapo ones much cheaper anyway!


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    #16
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Have you looked at the Whats your setup? sticky at the top. That may help you. They are not wayfrontier but are multisatellite setups.

    The best LNBs for weak or off focus lnb positions are the Black Ultras but you cannot use them if you are trying to also trying to receive something thats less than 4 degrees next door.

    Hence radiowaves issue with 4.8E and 7E.

    @ radiowaves. I have had no issues with the gold lnbs at all, even on off focus positions.

    I have Golden Interstar, Inverto Slim multiconnect, Opticum, Golds and No Names and there is no real difference in performance. The Black Ultras are noticeably stronger however, but the feed horns are massive.


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    #17
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Here you go Mick

    micks_address wrote: »
    Thanks,

    I'm sorted on the disk and bracket i think but a bit lost on the lnb situation..

    Would you mind linking me to the lnbs that you are using and how you have it setup maybe a picture or something?

    Sorry for being such a noob

    Cheers,
    Mick


  • Options
    #18
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    kingtiger wrote: »
    Here you go Mick

    Is that your setup with the GI lnb's ?


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    #19
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    STB wrote: »
    Have you looked at the Whats your setup? sticky at the top. That may help you. They are not wayfrontier but are multisatellite setups.

    The best LNBs for weak or off focus lnb positions are the Black Ultras but you cannot use them if you are trying to also trying to receive something thats less than 4 degrees next door.

    Hence radiowaves issue with 4.8E and 7E.

    @ radiowaves. I have had no issues with the gold lnbs at all, even on off focus positions.

    I have Golden Interstar, Inverto Slim multiconnect, Opticum, Golds and No Names and there is no real difference in performance. The Black Ultras are noticeably stronger however, but the feed horns are massive.

    Thanks for the info STB. We'll have to agree to disagree on the LNBs even though you have more experience than me.

    From my direct experience a Gold on my 1.2m wouldn't receive loads of transponders and lost signal in mild rain (or no rain with raindrops sitting on the cap). I replaced it with a cheapo LNB and the rain issue went away, even on the transponders that I previously wasn't getting. The only change was the LNB!

    As I also said I have a Black Ultra sitting on 39 East - 3 degrees away from another full size LNB on 42. I will be putting an Inverto Black Ultra on 42 in the next few days so I('ll report back.

    I have advised a professional installer above, I really think that'd be his best bet :)


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    #20
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    STB wrote: »
    Is that your setup with the GI lnb's ?

    Nope its a mates, had it on my what's app, will get the lnb locations later, from memory I think its centred on 13


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    #21
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    kingtiger wrote: »
    Nope its a mates, had it on my what's app, will get the lnb locations later, from memory I think its centred on 13

    What sats is that pulling in mate?


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    #22
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Im an absolute noob

    The plan is to source the parts over the summer months myself and i have a Sat installer lined up to install in August for me..

    Cheers,
    Mick
    radiowaves wrote: »
    If you're a noob I'd advise getting a professional installer to set it up for you, then you can get your hands dirty afterwards and play around with it. It'll save you much heartache!

    Amazon were doing a great deal on Black Inverto Ultras not so long ago

    https://www.google.ie/search?client=opera&q=Black+Inverto+Ultras&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    - type that into a search engine and buy about as many as the satellites you hope to receive. If the Amazon deal is still on you won't get cheapo ones much cheaper anyway!


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    #23
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    micks_address wrote: »
    Im an absolute noob

    The plan is to source the parts over the summer months myself and i have a Sat installer lined up to install in August for me..

    Cheers,
    Mick

    That makes sense mate :)


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    #24
    easkey
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭easkey


    Here is what is possible!!!!
    A lot of time and :mad:#****#:mad: and energy.

    j9qxh5udq5z2xrrexl5n.jpg


    maximum%20T901-500x500.jpg

    :rolleyes::eek::eek:


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    #25
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I saw this thread yesterday and had planned on posting a Pro/Con list of Motorized vs MultiLNB setups....
    Then I remembered that I had posted similar a few years ago.
    I have updated it a little, but here goes.
    If you are only looking at a small spread range of satellites within @20degrees I'd recommend a multiLNB setup onrather than motorised.
    THat said, the most important aspect of a MultiLNB setup is, PLANNING!
    Plan what you need to receive, whats most important?
    What Satellite has the strongest footprint in your location?
    And the weakest?
    Then choose a prime focus for your dish that will allow the best reception of all the birds you wish to receive and go from there.
    A MultiLNB setup with multi output LNBs and diseqc switching will allow you to watch one satellite while you record another(Assuming you use a twin tuner receiver) and also allow multiroom expansion.
    Indeed with a multiswitch a Multi LNB setup can run a receiver in every room in your home with plenty of capacity to spare.
    A Motorized dish will restrict you to one satellite active at a time, meaning if you are watching 0.8w....
    Everyone is!

    Motorised dish only good for one receiver(In general terms)
    Decent motors not cheap.
    Motors can go wrong and in Ireland due to fairly high wind loads for much of the year often need to be realigned unless in sheltered locations.
    And no matter how sheltered during storms/High winds you will need to 'park' the dish to a saf direction restricting your viewing.
    Slow to switch between satellites(Waiting for the dish to move) vs a MultiLNB diseqc switched setup which is near instant changes between satellites.
    Motors are No good for true PVR + Watching unless you have TWO motorised dishes.
    MultiLNB can feed separate receivers or feed a distribution system. i.e use quad LNBs means you can run 2 feeds to diseqc for PVR and still have 2 feeds available for the bedrooms(impossible with motor, you can only view 1 sat at a time)
    Multifeed (with Multiswitch or separate feeds) works with a Sky box(Sky will default to port 1 on a diseqc switch), Motor doesn't.

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking motors.....
    They are brilliant at what they do and a godsend for obscure or weaker satellites.
    But with wind loadings being near constant here in Ireland
    Unless you have the dis in a very sheltered location you are going to be realigning the motor on a regular basis.
    In storms/High winds you need to 'park' the dish to safe location, restricting what you can watch in high winds, which is an all too regular occurrence here.


    But for the footy fan where most of our viewing is between 0.8w and 28.2e...
    I personally think a multiLNB setup on a 1.1mtr Dish is the way to go.
    Costwise initially it will be on a par with a motorised setup(Depending how many LNBs you put up)
    But that gives you the advantage of near instant sat changes(rather than waiting for a motor to swing a dish)
    With a multiLNB system you can still keep a multiroom setup by just adding Quads or Octo Lnbs giving extra outputs on whichever sat you want to use for the multiroom feeds or indeed go down the multiswitch route.

    For flexibility and stability in anything up to a @30 degree spread, i.e 08w to 28.2e I reckon the 1.1mtr multi LNB is the way to go.
    And indeed a T90 will allow an even broader range of reception but in general a 1.1mtr dish will allow reception of the ''popular'' sats in a multiLNB setup.
    Indeed even a @90cm dish can be very good, personally I have 4.8e,9e,13e,16e,19.2e,23.5e and 28.2e all on a TD88 dish.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Wavefrontier T90.

    Satellite positions 4.8East across to 46East covered - dish prime-focused around the 23.5 mark but not spot on it.

    They're all standard-sized LNBs with one or two black ultras in there. Wavefrontier advise a 4 degree spacing between satellites, I have managed 3 degrees and it's worth the perseverance.

    Satellites at 4.8, 9/10, 13, 16, 19, 23.5. 28.2, 39, 42, 45/46 received.

    7 East would also be possible if both 4.8 and 9 weren't there. In other words it's EITHER 7 East OR 4.8 and 9. A narrow LNB might squeeze in but won't get everything so not worth it.

    Avoid those narrow LNBs if you can - you will lose signal even in the lightest of rain on many satellites (had a nightmare even on a prime-focus 80cm Hotbird - and couldn't get certain transponders even in the best of weathers on a prime-focus 1.2m pointed at 0.8west with a Gold skinny LNB). Use these only if absolutely necessary. The Gold skinny ultra will work on 28.2 but this is only necessary if you want 26.

    Depending on location 26East is not worth putting an LNB in for. It might be ok on a day like today but I lost signal with just heavy rain cloud. Only BADR4 is possible one way or another.

    The satellites:

    You'll only get the wider European beam on 4.8.

    I had Eutelsat 9East with perfect reception - replaced that with a Saorsat LNB, again no issues. (I lost the couple of transponders I could get on 10E with the 9East LNB of course but no huge loss unless you want FTA 3pm Saturday PL)

    Hotbird, Eutelsat 16East, Astra 19.2 all beaming in - no issues with closeness of LNBs.

    23.5 and 28.2 obviously beaming in.

    An Ultra Black Inverto made a huge difference on 39East to the transponders I was losing in heavy rain.

    I get most of the western beam on 42 East but can lose some of the weaker transponders in rain (haven't switched LNB to an Inverto yet).

    45 East beams in, some channels on 46 East come in - obviously both on the same LNB with a bit of tweaking to get it into optimal position.

    Id love to see a picture of your setup Radiowaves, sounds like something id like to aspire too!


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    #27
    snaps
    Registered Users Posts: 7,138 ✭✭✭snaps


    I have both setup a multi lnb dish and a motorised. Once you get into this hobby, there will be more than many times when there is a tv station/feed you want to get and your multi lnb dish wont be able to tune in.

    Motors are so versatile for this with all possible positions available.
    Motors really are not that slow...Yes from going to 30 west to 28 east takes 10 seconds, but you would barely notice the time it takes to go from 13 east to 19 east etc.


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    #28
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thanks for all the detailed replies guys,

    One question I have re the T90, I am intending to wall mount and have already got the wall mount - simillar to this

    http://www.shopping4satellite.com/polarmount-wavefrontier-t90.html

    Bought it from a guy on adverts.

    I've been told by some though not to wall mount that the dish is to heavy and big and would be dangerous in the wind?

    If its fitted properly with rawlbolts etc it should be ok?

    Anyone have any problems wall mounting?

    As I said, i wont be fitting myself anyway - I'll be getting it professionally installed..

    Just wondering what people think

    Cheers,
    Mick


  • Options
    #29
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    micks_address wrote: »
    Thanks for all the detailed replies guys,

    One question I have re the T90, I am intending to wall mount and have already got the wall mount - simillar to this

    http://www.shopping4satellite.com/polarmount-wavefrontier-t90.html

    Bought it from a guy on adverts.

    I've been told by some though not to wall mount that the dish is to heavy and big and would be dangerous in the wind?

    If its fitted properly with rawlbolts etc it should be ok?

    Anyone have any problems wall mounting?

    As I said, i wont be fitting myself anyway - I'll be getting it professionally installed..

    Just wondering what people think

    Cheers,
    Mick

    Mine is very exposed and has never been a problem - as long as it's professionally mounted it won't cause issues.


  • Options
    #30
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    micks_address wrote: »
    I've been told by some though not to wall mount that the dish is to heavy and big and would be dangerous in the wind?

    I have personally installed three T90s over the years and they are all wall mounted, there has been never been problems with them

    my one is installed four years and its never even gone out of alignment


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    #31
    Zardoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    kingtiger wrote: »
    I have personally installed three T90s over the years and they are all wall mounted, there has been never been problems with them

    my one is installed four years and its never even gone out of alignment

    Have you used the dedicated T90 mount for those installs ?

    I have a dashed wall (hard to know where to drill ) so I have it wall mounted about 6 feet up on a tk bracket but the base of the pole is resting on the patio.

    With the gales I get ,I dont want any hassle ,I had to get rid of my motorised dish as the gales kept knocking it out of whack,plus it was too slow to switch channels and noisy .


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