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Golfgate: Multiple public figures breach COVID-19 restrictions

2

Comments

  • #52
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭moon2


    Cole wrote: »
    Talk about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' from Micheal and co. They pushed and pushed and off he goes...

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    It's also worth pointing out that you are essentially saying that if you're good at your job you should feel free to break as many rules as you want. Applied more generally to all members of the government this would be a pretty toxic trait to encourage.

    I'd much rather the government show that no individual is "too big to fail". I'm glad our government is strong enough to do this.


  • #53
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    L1011 wrote: »
    Its exceptionally unlikely they'll reshuffle the Commission so we'll still have Trade.

    I hope you're right.


  • #54
    thomas 123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Cole wrote: »
    Talk about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' from Micheal and co. They pushed and pushed and off he goes...

    I've never been a Phil Hogan fan at all, but we've just lost a massive political presence in the EU...with Brexit hurtling down the tracks. By all accounts, he was good at his job and a bit brashness and arrogance (while not usually admirable) might be what is needed dealing with the British government in the coming months.

    Our government shooting themselves in both feet. Phil will probably head off to a nice big corporate job somewhere.

    Seen this all over social media today, what has he actually done for Ireland though? The mercosour deal and the more recent deal with the US both will have a negative impact on Irish farmers and fishermen.

    Also a lot of people seem to think our closest geographic neighbor is going to fall off the face of the earth come brexit. Irish to uk deals have an always will trump eu deals imo.


  • #55
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    moon2 wrote: »
    It's also worth pointing out that you are essentially saying that if you're good at your job you should feel free to break as many rules as you want.

    With respect, it's not worth pointing out what I'm "essentially" saying...because that's not what I'm saying. I don't know where the evidence is that he has broken as many rules as he has felt like.

    Despite his breaking of the rules around Covid19, his loss is likely to be greater than any damage he's done...in my opinion.


  • #56
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Presumably Billy Kelleher MEP will be the lynch mob's next target?


  • #57
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Presumably Billy Kelleher MEP will be the lynch mob's next target?

    There's a Supreme Court judge and a few ex-TDs with nice public funded (directly or indirectly) jobs in the way.


  • #58
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    L1011 wrote: »

    Its exceptionally unlikely they'll reshuffle the Commission so we'll still have Trade.

    Not if we send Ursula a dud.

    Presumably the government's nominee, if a TD, will have to come from a constituency with a winnable seat - and there may not be all that many of those.

    Although the by-election will probably be deferred until next year.


  • #59
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    L1011 wrote: »
    There's a Supreme Court judge and a few ex-TDs with nice public funded (directly or indirectly) jobs in the way.

    But Billy is a cut and dried case - came straight from Brussels to Cork and was seen in Dublin next day. So he must go - unless the government admits that Big Phil was thrown overboard mainly because they were scared sh1tless by the public outrage.


  • #60
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Not if we send Ursula a dud.

    Presumably the government's nominee, if a TD, will have to come from a constituency with a winnable seat - and there may not be all that many of those.

    Although the by-election will probably be deferred until next year.

    It won't be a current TD. There's been a handful of decent suggestions, one in particular more qualified to take the role than anyone else is ever likely to be.

    Would need primarily legislation to delay a BE based on primary legislation brought in after FF tried to avoid BEs in 2010.


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  • #61
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    But Billy is a cut and dried case - came straight from Brussels to Cork and was seen in Dublin next day. So he must go - unless the government admits that Big Phil was thrown overboard mainly because they were scared sh1tless by the public outrage.

    Did he do it again? He did it months ago (for the eventual Govt formation) when the rules weren't as cut and dried and it was mostly ignored because there were plenty of other people breaking the rules that weekend.

    I'd be more than happy to see him go; but it'd just result in Malcolm Byrne taking the MEP seat if he wanted it; or next on the list - an ex Renua member :eek:


  • #62
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    L1011 wrote: »
    It won't be a current TD. There's been a handful of decent suggestions, one in particular more qualified to take the role than anyone else is ever likely to be.

    Would need primarily legislation to delay a BE based on primary legislation brought in after FF tried to avoid BEs in 2010.

    Not a chance that MM would nominate Bertie though. So that leaves MMcG, so who is her sub?


  • #63
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Not a chance that MM would nominate Bertie though. So that leaves MMcG, so who is her sub?

    Gabby McFadden, ex Senator/ex TD. There are more if she says no, but I suspect she wouldn't.


  • #64
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    L1011 wrote: »
    Gabby McFadden, ex Senator/ex TD. There are more if she says no, but I suspect she wouldn't.

    Examiner is tipping Coveney.

    In the unlikely event that he gets it, I wonder would Jerry Buttimer run in the by-election! :D


  • #65
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Examiner is tipping Coveney.

    In the unlikely event that he gets it, I wonder would Jerry Buttimer run in the by-election! :D

    Hadn't even thought of that as an issue if he did actually go. I'm fairly certain no TD will be nominated.


  • #66
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Examiner is tipping Coveney.

    Who would get Foreign Affairs in his absence?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • #67
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hermy wrote: »
    Who would get Foreign Affairs in his absence?

    McEntee I'd guess; but its not gonna happen.


  • #68
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    L1011 wrote: »
    Hadn't even thought of that as an issue if he did actually go. I'm fairly certain no TD will be nominated.

    They should give it to a Senator. This crowd certainly can't get more conical.


  • #69
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Hermy wrote: »
    Who would get Foreign Affairs in his absence?

    Leo, but it will not happen. No TD as no bi election. Governments do not win bi-elections.


  • #70
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    They should give it to a Senator. This crowd certainly can't get more conical.

    None of them really meet the "not a donkey" requirement to hold the portfolio. And they'd lose any Seanad by-election most likely. The appointed Senators could be even worse.


  • #71
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭moon2


    Cole wrote: »
    With respect, it's not worth pointing out what I'm "essentially" saying...because that's not what I'm saying.

    Then what were you saying? Can you clarify precisely where you stand were Phil Hogan to have broken the rules as described?
    I don't know where the evidence is that he has broken as many rules as he has felt like
    It was sufficient for our Taoiseach and Tainiste. Is them being satisfied about the evidence sufficient enough for you?


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  • #72
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    If anyone is competent to do their job on a Friday presumably they would be similarly competent the following Monday.


    If, over a weekend, they breached a law the penalties prescribed under that Law should be the appropriate (and sufficient) punishment.


  • #73
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    If in breaching a law anyone demonstrates an inability to follow basic instruction then perhaps their competence wasn't all that it seemed.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #74
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    thomas 123 wrote:
    Seen this all over social media today, what has he actually done for Ireland though? The mercosour deal and the more recent deal with the US both will have a negative impact on Irish farmers and fishermen.

    EU Commissioners are not there to do something for the member states. They work for the EU as a whole.

    Thinking he should have done something for Ireland is a warped (and Dail-esque) understanding of the role.

    Other than that, happy he's resigned else the Commission (and EU) reputation could have been damaged. Would be more ammo for populists/eurosceptics.


  • #75
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hermy wrote: »
    If in breaching a law anyone demonstrates an inability to follow basic instruction then perhaps their competence wasn't all that it seemed.

    And if their attempts to defend their actions, they demonstrate obfuscation and confusion it further suggests their competence may not be sufficient.

    That and they undermined their position entirely with those they are negotiating with by doing that.


  • #76
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    L1011 wrote: »
    Its exceptionally unlikely they'll reshuffle the Commission so we'll still have Trade.
    Cole wrote: »
    I hope you're right.

    I just listened to Professor Gavin Barrett from UCD on Morning Ireland...not confident that we'll keep Trade. Obviously one point of view, but I've heard one too many similar assessments like this.


  • #77
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Cole wrote: »
    I just listened to Professor Gavin Barrett from UCD on Morning Ireland...not confident that we'll keep Trade. Obviously one point of view, but I've heard one too many similar assessments like this.

    The majority of people I've seen who have expressed that view in the media would be of a similar political persuasion to Hogan and would have been trying to protect him. NOBODY was saying this when Hogan was looking to leave for the WTO, remember.

    If UvdL wants to rip up the rulebook after decades, it could happen. It won't go down well with basically any other member state though (except whoever gets the role)


  • #78
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    L1011 wrote: »
    NOBODY was saying this when Hogan was looking to leave for the WTO, remember.

    Fair point


  • #79
    bertiebomber
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    L1011 wrote: »
    The majority of people I've seen who have expressed that view in the media would be of a similar political persuasion to Hogan and would have been trying to protect him. NOBODY was saying this when Hogan was looking to leave for the WTO, remember.

    If UvdL wants to rip up the rulebook after decades, it could happen. It won't go down well with basically any other member state though (except whoever gets the role)


    you are correct a few weeks ago he was going to WTO only he got tipped off he wouldnt get the gig so he stayed in trade to pretend he cared as his rejection on a public stage would not have been tolerable to him. Hes gone, he was intent on going himself for bigger bucks but the people got him like a karma for his bad behaviour long ago.


  • #80
    thomas 123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    McGiver wrote: »
    EU Commissioners are not there to do something for the member states. They work for the EU as a whole.

    Thinking he should have done something for Ireland is a warped (and Dail-esque) understanding of the role.

    Other than that, happy he's resigned else the Commission (and EU) reputation could have been damaged. Would be more ammo for populists/eurosceptics.

    Just to clarify I was responding directly to someone who said he was great for Ireland or great for Ireland to have there.

    How was he? That was my question as I am sure you knew when you read my post.

    I am aware of what the EU does.


  • #81
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I suspect the Commission will be keen to not give the impression that a member state can pressure a Commissioner to resign and replace him in the same role. I expect they will shuffle the portfolio away from Ireland. But let's see I guess.


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  • #82
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I suspect the Commission will be keen to not give the impression that a member state can pressure a Commissioner to resign and replace him in the same role. I expect they will shuffle the portfolio away from Ireland. But let's see I guess.

    Except its happened before with no reshuffle; and a reshuffle would require new EP approval which is not an easy process.


  • #83
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    A very interesting interview with Clare Daly on Prime Time tonight re. the whole Phil Hogan matter. The one person I thought would be leading the charge against him and twisting the knife after his resignation, was more or less suggesting he'd been hard done by. Especially given that EU policy is that MEPs can avoid quarantines due to regular testing, according to Daly.


  • #84
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Cole wrote:
    A very interesting interview with Clare Daly on Prime Time tonight re. the whole Phil Hogan matter. The one person I thought would be leading the charge against him and twisting the knife after his resignation, was more or less suggesting he'd been hard done by. Especially given that EU policy is that MEPs can avoid quarantines due to regular testing, according to Daly.
    He's not an MEP.


  • #85
    Dank Janniels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Dank Janniels


    Any reports of other Golfgates? Id imagine theres aload of other clubs and groups deleting their facebook photos from the last few weeks!
    One positive from all this is that people might take the restrictions abit more seriously from now on in fear of the publicity and scandal


  • #86
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    McGiver wrote: »
    He's not an MEP.

    Sharp mind


  • #87
    fenris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Cole wrote: »
    Especially given that EU policy is that MEPs can avoid quarantines due to regular testing, according to Daly.

    Does that not just mean that MEPs will not need to quarantine on their return to Brussels?

    It doesn't over-ride Irish regulations for persons arriving into Ireland?


  • #88
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    fenris wrote: »
    Does that not just mean that MEPs will not need to quarantine on their return to Brussels?

    It doesn't over-ride Irish regulations for persons arriving into Ireland?

    That may be the case - I don't know the ins and outs of it - and I'm not referring to it as a defence for Phil Hogan. Clare Daly made this point in the context of Hogan and seemed to be suggesting that, given the flexibility for MEPs re. Covid19 and quarantine, that (as a commissioner) he was a bit hard done by.


  • #89
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Cole wrote: »
    That may be the case - I don't know the ins and outs of it - and I'm not referring to it as a defence for Phil Hogan. Clare Daly made this point in the context of Hogan and seemed to be suggesting that, given the flexibility for MEPs re. Covid19 and quarantine, that (as a commissioner) he was a bit hard done by.

    He may have been hard done by, but it was all of his own making. He had 8 or 9 attempts to explain himself, and as they say - while you are explaining, you are losing. A single far reaching apology, and explanation, citing his confusion and work schedule might have done.

    Of course, using his mobile while driving was a big no no - hard to explain that away.


  • #90
    Cole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Cole


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    A single far reaching apology, and explanation, citing his confusion and work schedule might have done.

    Agreed


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  • #91
    Bellview
    Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    Did the social democratic and Sinn Fein councillors resign from their council seats Who like hogan broke the quarantine rules or is there one rule For hogan and another for the councillors .. especially as both parties have been preaching a lot recently


  • #92
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    People talking about Mairead McGuinness as the next commissioner, surely that’s a step down from first VP of parliament? Bearing in mind there’s no guarantee she would get the trade post?


  • #93
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bellview wrote: »
    Did the social democratic and Sinn Fein councillors resign from their council seats Who like hogan broke the quarantine rules or is there one rule For hogan and another for the councillors .. especially as both parties have been preaching a lot recently

    SD councillor in Kildare has been suspended for 6 months at least.


  • #94
    Bellview
    Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    L1011 wrote: »
    SD councillor in Kildare has been suspended for 6 months at least.

    why not resign like Hogan and pack in the job.. if Roisin Shorthall wants to preach then the councillor needs to go off the council not a SF type joke suspension.. he is a copy exact of Hogan, he took a test was negative and moved within the 14 days.. so he should go and get the same publicity as Hogan & Co


  • #95
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Bellview wrote: »
    why not resign like Hogan and pack in the job.. if Roisin Shorthall wants to preach then the councillor needs to go off the council not a SF type joke suspension.. he is a copy exact of Hogan, he took a test was negative and moved within the 14 days.. so he should go and get the same publicity as Hogan & Co

    Hogan took 9 attempts to explain himself - each one slightly worse, including a matter the Gardai were involved in.

    How many did the councillor require?


  • #96
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,987 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Hogan took 9 attempts to explain himself - each one slightly worse, including a matter the Gardai were involved in.

    How many did the councillor require?

    Why sugar coat it? Hogan lied to his boss and had to be more or less told to think again and tell the truth and the whole truth next time. That is why he lost his job. His own doing.


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  • #97
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,791 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    And it was not the Irish government that sacked him, specificially not the government. The decision came from Brussels and any pushing by the government was more likely to save him his job than lose it, so that the EU Commission could be seen not to be bowing to governments.


  • #98
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kenny Egan (FG) has been suspended for a breach of quarantine rules also


  • #99
    WishUWereHere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Wonder who the limelight will turn to next?

    The supreme judge or Hayes? I think Hayes has got off lightly so far. I also would love to know who else was at that function.


  • #100
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    WishUWereHere wrote: »
    Wonder who the limelight will turn to next?

    The supreme judge or Hayes? I think Hayes has got off lightly so far. I also would love to know who else was at that function.

    The supreme court judge has to go.

    He should not have been at such a do even in normal times. It was a political do, and with the 'separation of powers' precluding such hobnobbing for supreme court judges to be mixing in political circles, he must go.

    For example, the President has to be extremely careful of where he goes and who he meets, at all times. He must be above reproach at all times. The same applies to supreme court judges. How would it be if he was a judge on a political matter involving parties who attended such a shindig? Would there be calls for him to recuse himself?

    As for Hayes, he is a lobbyist and that is what lobbyists do.


  • #101
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,555 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Cole wrote: »
    A very interesting interview with Clare Daly on Prime Time tonight re. the whole Phil Hogan matter. The one person I thought would be leading the charge against him and twisting the knife after his resignation, was more or less suggesting he'd been hard done by. Especially given that EU policy is that MEPs can avoid quarantines due to regular testing, according to Daly.

    Forgot to reply at the time, but her saying this meant it was obvious that Daly or Wallace broke the rules. She would have joined the dogpile otherwise

    Wallace is refusing to answer questions about whether he quarantined before coming back for a FAI board meeting at the start of the month as per the Times today


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