How do you convince people god exists?

ILoveYourVibes · 09-06-2019 3:51pm #1

How do you in history?

And how do you do it now?

With all the evidence etc.

Still waters · 09-06-2019 3:52pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How do you in history?

And how do you do it now?

With all the evidence etc.

What evidence ?

ILoveYourVibes · 09-06-2019 3:54pm

Still waters wrote: »

What evidence ?

Evolution etc.

Why do people believe in god.

I am not saying whether i do or not. That's not the argument.

Logically one should not.

So why do people?

ILoveYourVibes · 09-06-2019 3:54pm

I think real belief is very personal.

Peatys · 09-06-2019 3:55pm

Childhood cancer is all i need to know about your god

Pauliedragon · 09-06-2019 3:59pm

I think a lot of people take comfort in the belief that when we die it's not the end and we just move on somewhere else to meet loved ones who have moved on previously. If that gives someone a sense of wellbeing then good luck to them I reckon.

the_syco · 09-06-2019 4:00pm

I'm aware that it isn't Odin in the picture.

09-06-2019 4:01pm

You don't in an ideal world, accept that other people may hold a different belief to yours.

the culture of deference · 09-06-2019 4:04pm

Indoctrinate the children of gullible parents

donkeykong5 · 09-06-2019 4:05pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I think a lot of people take comfort in the belief that when we die it's not the end and we just move on somewhere else to meet loved ones who have moved on previously. If that gives someone a sense of wellbeing then good luck to them I reckon.

It's all that keeps some people going.

Atlantic Dawn · 09-06-2019 4:07pm

You tell someone that when you die you will make them win the Euromillions jackpot the following Friday, they will pretty much take it as gospel if you can pull that off for them

kneemos · 09-06-2019 4:09pm

Don't think it's that far fetched,given the existence of the universe a God isn't really any more bizzare.

Religion though is mostly a croc of shoite.

y0ssar1an22 · 09-06-2019 4:19pm

I suppose its up to yourself. do you believe that after you die, thats it. your existence is gone forever, or if there's something bigger out there that we call god.
i dunno. its a weird thought and kinda depressing that when you die thats it, snuffed out, extinguished for the rest of time.

09-06-2019 4:20pm

Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

Pauliedragon · 09-06-2019 4:34pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

And what format are you in? dust .... speckles ... invisible stuff

Religions are complete shyte

I'm Agnostic but if people want to believe in one ideal or another it doesn't bother me as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat. So what if someone believes in something I don't necessarily believe in its their business not mine.

Wanderer2010 · 09-06-2019 4:42pm

OP you cant make anyone do anything and certainly their personal religious belief is a very ingrained and indeed personal thing not likely to change from badgering or bullying or even presenting calmly a different point of view. I was a typical Catholic growing up but I rejected the teachings of the church as they just had no place in a society where people should be whatever they want to be, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. The whole hierarchy of the church just reeked of control and hypocrisy.

I don't think this world and this life of ours is for nothing, I just find that impossible to accept that we could be just here, live our lives and then that's it forever and ever. There has to be something after this, but as for what it is I just don't know. Im in that stubborn but yet to be defined "not religious but spiritual" category.

CPTM · 09-06-2019 4:44pm

You leave behind the idea that God has a conscience. That's where it all went wrong. Originally God was the Sun, the rain, which had good days and bad days. Praying was basically meditation, people reminding themselves that good days always come, which gave them hope. Nowadays, people think praying is where you ask a BeeGees lookalike for something, and you get it if you are nice enough. No room for that in today's logical world.

Instead, religion should go back to the roots. Connecting ourselves to the forces at play which are greater than us. The constantly moving job economy for example is a higher power which we could "pray to", meaning when we're having a bad day at work, we can connect ourselves to that notion that new jobs are always being created and if we focus on being good people, it will come to us eventually. Why does religion and praying have to be more complicated than that? It's all about hope at the end of the day.

o1s1n · 09-06-2019 4:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

Back to the dark ages instead? No thanks.

Zaph · 09-06-2019 4:49pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think real belief is very personal.

If that's the case how could you convince someone that god exists?

donkeykong5 · 09-06-2019 5:00pm

I was bought up a catholic and my children were therefore catholic as well. However when the Brendan Smith story broke I told them that there was no need for them to attend mass ever again if they didnt want to. They were delighted. However 2 of them would still go to mass now and again. Myself....well if I didnt get mass on a Saturday night I dont feel right. So each to their own I feel.

the culture of deference · 09-06-2019 5:04pm

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I was bought up a catholic and my children were therefore catholic as well. However when the Brendan Smith story broke I told them that there was no need for them to attend mass ever again if they didnt want to. They were delighted. However 2 of them would still go to mass now and again. Myself....well if I didnt get mass on a Saturday night I dont feel right. So each to their own I feel.

this is why religion still exists

you ignore the history of the churches depravity from 2nd century and still support them

bnt · 09-06-2019 5:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

Don’t shoot the messenger: even if Christians are nicer than atheists (which is debatable), does that mean Christianity is more likely to be true?

Imagine being a member of a tribe wandering in the desert, thousands of years ago. Some weird, scary stuff happens e.g the Sun goes dark during the day, or one of your goats is killed by lightning. Who did that? How do we make it stop? Will it help to offer sacrifices to... whatever that powerful being is? Do we have to say certain things at certain times?

09-06-2019 5:24pm

Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..

bnt · 09-06-2019 5:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..

That's back-to-front: common sense ethics existed before the invention of Judeo-Christian religions, and they became associated with Christianity in countries where that was the majority religion. In England, the Church of England was at the centre of local social life, and you would hear someone called "a good Christian" when he or she was simply a good person - regardless of what he or she actually believed. In Muslim countries, a good person is "a good Muslim".

09-06-2019 7:25pm

bnt wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..

That's back-to-front: common sense ethics existed before the invention of Judeo-Christian religions, and they became associated with Christianity in countries where that was the majority religion. In England, the Church of England was at the centre of local social life, and you would hear someone called "a good Christian" when he or she was simply a good person - regardless of what he or she actually believed. In Muslim countries, a good person is "a good Muslim".

They didn't though..

IAMAMORON · 09-06-2019 7:31pm

I think if you start a subservant revolutionary movement that operates in direct opposition to the established morals and existing prevalent religious beliefs, you have a chance.

Start by ridiculing all the 3000 odd existing established religions around the world. Tell them all they have got it wrong and that you have it right and that god exists.

Easy.

Beasty · 09-06-2019 7:35pm

Simply show proof. In this case I've never been presented with any proof and hence am not convinced

Capt'n Midnight · 09-06-2019 7:58pm

There are no atheists in foxholes.

gctest50 · 09-06-2019 8:13pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's at best the usual bulls!t to scare people

The Christians probably got that from Adolf

Adolf Hitler, Bavaria, 1936:

Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.

since they were so close like :

https://imgur.com/2y2aN22

.

Eggs For Dinner · 09-06-2019 8:21pm

Peatys wrote: »

Childhood cancer is all i need to know about your god

I've battled with belief for a long time, having been brought up to accept the norm. However, over the last few years, I've come to the conclusion that a loving God could not let this happen, so I'm out.

kowloon · 09-06-2019 8:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

Religion is constantly on the defensive, being pushed back by science. But that is in turn under fire by every bull**** movement be they anti-vaxxers, creationists, flat earthers etc. It's a pity we have to share the one planet with them.

09-06-2019 8:28pm

So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

kowloon · 09-06-2019 8:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

The problem being there's just too much for any one person to understand it all, and it's only going to get worse.

kneemos · 09-06-2019 8:34pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

I've battled with belief for a long time, having been brought up to accept the norm. However, over the last few years, I've come to the conclusion that a loving God could not let this happen, so I'm out.

If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

09-06-2019 8:40pm

But like, even with the more out there chaotic mathematics for instance.. there's a beauty to it that would suggest a divine creator behind it..

who was it that said (I'm paraphrasing)..

'When you take a sip from the cup of science you may be an atheist, but when you finish it, there is God looking back at you from the bottom of the cup..'

kowloon · 09-06-2019 8:41pm

kneemos wrote: »

If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

So God is bound by natural laws that he's also credited with creating in the first place?

gctest50 · 09-06-2019 8:41pm

kneemos wrote: »

If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

There ain't any god

Look at this and tell me there is :

( Warning 4 year old with neuroblastoma )

https://imgur.com/ugnYTVh

.

odyssey06 · 09-06-2019 8:43pm

kneemos wrote: »

If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

Impossible... for an omnipotent super being? Why do we need a world at all? Let's go straight to the Utopia phase.

odyssey06 · 09-06-2019 8:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

Have you taken antibiotics, or any prescription medicines? Come back to me and talk about blind faith when god saves your life, as opposed to the trained scientists who made the life saving medicine.

kneemos · 09-06-2019 8:45pm

kowloon wrote: »

So God is bound by natural laws that he's also credited with creating in the first place?

Well heaven is supposedly a utopia.

kneemos · 09-06-2019 8:46pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Impossible... for an omnipotent super being? Why do we need a world at all? Let's go straight to the Utopia phase.

You'd know the meaning of life.

Spanish Eyes · 09-06-2019 8:46pm

God knows everything. God rules the world. God allows floods, fires, kiddie fiddlers, tsunamis, everything. He must want everyone up in the clouds or something.

No one can argue that God is good if he allows such suffering. And it is usually towards the poorer cohort of society.

Sunk cost fallacy maybe for some so called believers.

09-06-2019 8:47pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

Have you taken antibiotics, or any prescription medicines? Come back to me and talk about blind faith when god saves your life, as opposed to the trained scientists who made the life saving medicine.

What are you talking about?.. This is the level of considered debate one comes to expect from your generic atheist..

Explain to me so how antibiotics work..

odyssey06 · 09-06-2019 8:47pm

kneemos wrote: »

You'd know the meaning of life.

If he needs to create a world in which children are afflicted by horrors every to prove his point, his meaning of life is evil.

Baggly · 09-06-2019 8:52pm

Mod

This subject matter clearly belongs in A&A, rather than AH.

If the relevant mods reopen the thread please familiarise yourselves with that forums charter.

robindch · 09-06-2019 10:19pm

More of a religious question i’d have thought. But, hey, it landed here - discuss!

09-06-2019 10:22pm

Found that quote..

"The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you."
Werner Heisenberg

s7ryf3925pivug · 09-06-2019 10:34pm

It's about identity. Their parents bring them up to believe it, so that belief is part of their identity and their sense of belonging to a group greater than themselves. Questioning those beliefs can therefore be seen as a betrayal. Some religions explicitly and extremely treat it as such.

Some people convert. They are joining a new group. Sometimes it's because they want to have a family with someone who is invested in it. Sometimes it's because they don't have a strong sense of identity or belonging. Sometimes you can't really get why they do.

The hijacking of family by religion is one of it's more subtle evils. Plenty of examples spring to mind of adult children having major issues with their parents because they don't conform to their beliefs, and their parents cannot accept it.

donspeekinglesh · 09-06-2019 10:38pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There are no atheists in foxholes.

http://www.militaryatheists.org would disagree.

splinter65 · 09-06-2019 10:41pm

Atheism. The superstition that everything came from nothing.

Pherekydes · 09-06-2019 10:57pm

kneemos wrote: »

Well heaven is supposedly a utopia.

I'll bet it's more like South Sudan or Somalia.

Why did this thread end up in A&A?

Shouldn't it be in the Prison Soccer forum or Christians Against Everyone Else forum?

Anyway, Gott Mitt Uns, so if she's with them then I'm against her.

How do you convince people god exists?

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