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How do you convince people god exists?

  • 09-06-2019 3:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭


    How do you in history?


    And how do you do it now?

    With all the evidence etc.


«13456721

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    How do you in history?


    And how do you do it now?

    With all the evidence etc.

    What evidence ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    What evidence ?


    Evolution etc.

    Why do people believe in god.


    I am not saying whether i do or not. That's not the argument.

    Logically one should not.

    So why do people?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I think real belief is very personal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Childhood cancer is all i need to know about your god


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I think a lot of people take comfort in the belief that when we die it's not the end and we just move on somewhere else to meet loved ones who have moved on previously. If that gives someone a sense of wellbeing then good luck to them I reckon.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,304 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    odin-vs.-jesus.jpg
    I'm aware that it isn't Odin in the picture.


  • Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You don't in an ideal world, accept that other people may hold a different belief to yours.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Indoctrinate the children of gullible parents


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    I think a lot of people take comfort in the belief that when we die it's not the end and we just move on somewhere else to meet loved ones who have moved on previously. If that gives someone a sense of wellbeing then good luck to them I reckon.
    It's all that keeps some people going.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,414 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    You tell someone that when you die you will make them win the Euromillions jackpot the following Friday, they will pretty much take it as gospel if you can pull that off for them :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Don't think it's that far fetched,given the existence of the universe a God isn't really any more bizzare.

    Religion though is mostly a croc of shoite.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,221 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    I suppose its up to yourself. do you believe that after you die, thats it. your existence is gone forever, or if there's something bigger out there that we call god.
    i dunno. its a weird thought and kinda depressing that when you die thats it, snuffed out, extinguished for the rest of time.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

    So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    And what format are you in? dust .... speckles ... invisible stuff



    Religions are complete shyte
    I'm Agnostic but if people want to believe in one ideal or another it doesn't bother me as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat. So what if someone believes in something I don't necessarily believe in its their business not mine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    OP you cant make anyone do anything and certainly their personal religious belief is a very ingrained and indeed personal thing not likely to change from badgering or bullying or even presenting calmly a different point of view. I was a typical Catholic growing up but I rejected the teachings of the church as they just had no place in a society where people should be whatever they want to be, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. The whole hierarchy of the church just reeked of control and hypocrisy.

    I don't think this world and this life of ours is for nothing, I just find that impossible to accept that we could be just here, live our lives and then that's it forever and ever. There has to be something after this, but as for what it is I just don't know. Im in that stubborn but yet to be defined "not religious but spiritual" category.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭CPTM


    You leave behind the idea that God has a conscience. That's where it all went wrong. Originally God was the Sun, the rain, which had good days and bad days. Praying was basically meditation, people reminding themselves that good days always come, which gave them hope. Nowadays, people think praying is where you ask a BeeGees lookalike for something, and you get it if you are nice enough. No room for that in today's logical world.

    Instead, religion should go back to the roots. Connecting ourselves to the forces at play which are greater than us. The constantly moving job economy for example is a higher power which we could "pray to", meaning when we're having a bad day at work, we can connect ourselves to that notion that new jobs are always being created and if we focus on being good people, it will come to us eventually. Why does religion and praying have to be more complicated than that? It's all about hope at the end of the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,253 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

    So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

    Back to the dark ages instead? No thanks.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    I think real belief is very personal.

    If that's the case how could you convince someone that god exists?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    I was bought up a catholic and my children were therefore catholic as well. However when the Brendan Smith story broke I told them that there was no need for them to attend mass ever again if they didnt want to. They were delighted. However 2 of them would still go to mass now and again. Myself....well if I didnt get mass on a Saturday night I dont feel right. So each to their own I feel.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    I was bought up a catholic and my children were therefore catholic as well. However when the Brendan Smith story broke I told them that there was no need for them to attend mass ever again if they didnt want to. They were delighted. However 2 of them would still go to mass now and again. Myself....well if I didnt get mass on a Saturday night I dont feel right. So each to their own I feel.


    this is why religion still exists


    you ignore the history of the churches depravity from 2nd century and still support them


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

    So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..
    Don’t shoot the messenger: even if Christians are nicer than atheists (which is debatable), does that mean Christianity is more likely to be true?

    Imagine being a member of a tribe wandering in the desert, thousands of years ago. Some weird, scary stuff happens e.g the Sun goes dark during the day, or one of your goats is killed by lightning. Who did that? How do we make it stop? Will it help to offer sacrifices to... whatever that powerful being is? Do we have to say certain things at certain times?

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..
    That's back-to-front: common sense ethics existed before the invention of Judeo-Christian religions, and they became associated with Christianity in countries where that was the majority religion. In England, the Church of England was at the centre of local social life, and you would hear someone called "a good Christian" when he or she was simply a good person - regardless of what he or she actually believed. In Muslim countries, a good person is "a good Muslim". ;)

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    bnt wrote: »
    Ah, but, so much of the whole atheist world view is based on a moral philosophy that is Christian really.. like, really, what is to say that killing someone is wrong, really?..many other cultures didn't view it as such..
    That's back-to-front: common sense ethics existed before the invention of Judeo-Christian religions, and they became associated with Christianity in countries where that was the majority religion. In England, the Church of England was at the centre of local social life, and you would hear someone called "a good Christian" when he or she was simply a good person - regardless of what he or she actually believed. In Muslim countries, a good person is "a good Muslim". ;)

    They didn't though..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I think if you start a subservant revolutionary movement that operates in direct opposition to the established morals and existing prevalent religious beliefs, you have a chance.

    Start by ridiculing all the 3000 odd existing established religions around the world. Tell them all they have got it wrong and that you have it right and that god exists.

    Easy.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,500 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Simply show proof. In this case I've never been presented with any proof and hence am not convinced


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    There are no atheists in foxholes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    There are no atheists in foxholes.

    That's at best the usual bulls!t to scare people


    The Christians probably got that from Adolf


    Adolf Hitler, Bavaria, 1936:

    Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.


    since they were so close like :


    https://imgur.com/2y2aN22


    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Peatys wrote: »
    Childhood cancer is all i need to know about your god

    I've battled with belief for a long time, having been brought up to accept the norm. However, over the last few years, I've come to the conclusion that a loving God could not let this happen, so I'm out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Tbh I think the whole atheist trend that is happening now will turn out to be just a phase we go through..

    So much of it is like listening to a disgruntled 15 year old..

    tc6ag6q9zxw01.jpg

    Religion is constantly on the defensive, being pushed back by science. But that is in turn under fire by every bull**** movement be they anti-vaxxers, creationists, flat earthers etc. It's a pity we have to share the one planet with them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

    The problem being there's just too much for any one person to understand it all, and it's only going to get worse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I've battled with belief for a long time, having been brought up to accept the norm. However, over the last few years, I've come to the conclusion that a loving God could not let this happen, so I'm out.


    If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

    What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But like, even with the more out there chaotic mathematics for instance.. there's a beauty to it that would suggest a divine creator behind it..

    who was it that said (I'm paraphrasing)..

    'When you take a sip from the cup of science you may be an atheist, but when you finish it, there is God looking back at you from the bottom of the cup..'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    kneemos wrote: »
    If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

    What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

    So God is bound by natural laws that he's also credited with creating in the first place?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    kneemos wrote: »
    If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

    What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.


    There ain't any god


    Look at this and tell me there is :


    ( Warning 4 year old with neuroblastoma )

    https://imgur.com/ugnYTVh


    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,130 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    kneemos wrote: »
    If a God didn't allow cancer you'd say why is there starvation? Get rid of starvation you say why do folk fall down stairs,etc,etc,etc.

    What you're talking about is an impossible utopia where the ultimate logical conclusion is a world where everyone lives the same perfect pain and trouble free life.

    Impossible... for an omnipotent super being? Why do we need a world at all? Let's go straight to the Utopia phase.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,130 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

    Have you taken antibiotics, or any prescription medicines? Come back to me and talk about blind faith when god saves your life, as opposed to the trained scientists who made the life saving medicine.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    kowloon wrote: »
    So God is bound by natural laws that he's also credited with creating in the first place?


    Well heaven is supposedly a utopia.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Impossible... for an omnipotent super being? Why do we need a world at all? Let's go straight to the Utopia phase.

    You'd know the meaning of life.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,996 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    God knows everything. God rules the world. God allows floods, fires, kiddie fiddlers, tsunamis, everything. He must want everyone up in the clouds or something.

    No one can argue that God is good if he allows such suffering. And it is usually towards the poorer cohort of society.

    Sunk cost fallacy maybe for some so called believers.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    So much of most people's belief in science is based on blind faith too though..

    Have you taken antibiotics, or any prescription medicines? Come back to me and talk about blind faith when god saves your life, as opposed to the trained scientists who made the life saving medicine.

    What are you talking about?.. This is the level of considered debate one comes to expect from your generic atheist..

    Explain to me so how antibiotics work..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,130 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    kneemos wrote: »
    You'd know the meaning of life.

    If he needs to create a world in which children are afflicted by horrors every to prove his point, his meaning of life is evil.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Mod

    This subject matter clearly belongs in A&A, rather than AH.

    If the relevant mods reopen the thread please familiarise yourselves with that forums charter.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    More of a religious question i’d have thought. But, hey, it landed here - discuss!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Found that quote..

    "The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you."
    Werner Heisenberg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    It's about identity. Their parents bring them up to believe it, so that belief is part of their identity and their sense of belonging to a group greater than themselves. Questioning those beliefs can therefore be seen as a betrayal. Some religions explicitly and extremely treat it as such.

    Some people convert. They are joining a new group. Sometimes it's because they want to have a family with someone who is invested in it. Sometimes it's because they don't have a strong sense of identity or belonging. Sometimes you can't really get why they do.

    The hijacking of family by religion is one of it's more subtle evils. Plenty of examples spring to mind of adult children having major issues with their parents because they don't conform to their beliefs, and their parents cannot accept it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    There are no atheists in foxholes.

    http://www.militaryatheists.org would disagree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Atheism. The superstition that everything came from nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,190 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    kneemos wrote: »
    Well heaven is supposedly a utopia.

    I'll bet it's more like South Sudan or Somalia.

    Why did this thread end up in A&A?

    Shouldn't it be in the Prison Soccer forum or Christians Against Everyone Else forum?

    Anyway, Gott Mitt Uns, so if she's with them then I'm against her.


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