Cultural appropriation outrage.

Defunkd · 30-04-2018 1:02am

Omackeral wrote: »

Christ.

You outraged, paddy? Or just outraged on behalf of a billion others?

pauliebdub · 30-04-2018 1:02am

It's just **** on Twitter, you're better off not posting pictures of yourself except to friends and family.

Omackeral · 30-04-2018 1:25am

Defunkd wrote: »

You outraged, paddy? Or just outraged on behalf of a billion others?

Capitalise that ''P'' you ignorant person.

sabat · 30-04-2018 1:27am

Omackeral wrote: »

Christ.

I know, you'd think that by 2018 people would have learned to say 'Chinamen.'

Paddy Cow · 30-04-2018 1:38am

FFS soon we won't be able to squint in the sun without being accused of being racist/culturally appropriating someone/some other bs :rolleyes:

Defunkd · 30-04-2018 2:07am

sabat wrote: »

I know, you'd think that by 2018 people would have learned to say 'Chinamen.'

"Chinese" actually you sexist git.

metaoblivia · 30-04-2018 3:27am

This sort of crap pisses me off. If you go through the replies, plenty of Chinese people are saying she looks beautiful and they're not offended at all. And yet other people - usually Americans - are saying she doesn't understand the history of the dress and that she would need permission from several different Chinese people before being allowed to wear it. First of all, how do they know she doesn't understand the history of the dress? And as for asking for permission, that's completely ridiculous, although it looks like she had plenty of permission from actual Chinese people. And what, she's supposed to post a picture with a complete history of the dress along with the names of every Chinese person who gave her permission? It's laughable.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 5:25am

metaoblivia wrote: »

This sort of crap pisses me off. If you go through the replies, plenty of Chinese people are saying she looks beautiful and they're not offended at all. And yet other people - usually Americans - are saying she doesn't understand the history of the dress and that she would need permission from several different Chinese people before being allowed to wear it. First of all, how do they know she doesn't understand the history of the dress? And as for asking for permission, that's completely ridiculous, although it looks like she had plenty of permission from actual Chinese people. And what, she's supposed to post a picture with a complete history of the dress along with the names of every Chinese person who gave her permission? It's laughable.

That's the thing, people who have a problem with this kind of stuff are usually not Chinese but rather Americans with Asian origins. So it's purely an American problem and a consequence of hardcore multiculturalism whereby people are all assigned to a minority group defined by ethnicity rather than being seen first and foremost as belonging to the same common nation; and you end up with some of those people becoming confused/racist when they see someone who doesn't belong to their ethnic group wearing something they feel belong to "their" culture (whereby ironically they define cultural appartenance purely based on ethnicity and physical appearance).

Graces7 · 30-04-2018 6:33am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I think cultural appropriation is disgraceful.

As a people we endured oppression from the British Empire for hundreds of years, and survived famines, chunky knitwear was at times most likely all that stood between us and death. My great great great great great grand daddy died on a coffin ship. Not because he starved, or had scurvy, but because he left his aran jumper at home and yet would ya look at these fools..........

Survived? SURVIVED? Not many. And those are NOT traditional Aran jerseys. They are a modern distortion of the style... Not the same at all, at all.
Bastardised.

And they are not 'chunky"either!l :rolleyes:

splinter65 · 30-04-2018 6:37am

Omackeral wrote: »

Christ.

Need a day off tomorrow to cope with seeing the word “chinks”? You should see what they call you !!

milli milli · 30-04-2018 6:51am

Bob24 wrote: »

a consequence of hardcore multiculturalism whereby people are all assigned to a minority group defined by ethnicity rather than being seen first and foremost as belonging to the same common nation.

True.
The whole cultural misappropriation rubbish has this horrible selfish, sanctimonious, imperialist feeling to it.
Instead of coming together & sharing, there is this ‘me, mine’ attitude. (I hate to say it, but is it just a millennial thing?)
The fact that this is coming from a guy wearing a baseball cap & T-shirt (originally created by the US army) is laughable.

For gods sake, my Asian sister-in-law gave me one of these dresses as a gift!

Wibbs · 30-04-2018 7:21am

Bob24 wrote: »

That's the thing, people who have a problem with this kind of stuff are usually not Chinese but rather Americans with Asian origins. So it's purely an American problem and a consequence of hardcore multiculturalism whereby people are all assigned to a minority group defined by ethnicity rather than being seen first and foremost as belonging to the same common nation; and you end up with some of those people becoming confused/racist when they see someone who doesn't belong to their ethnic group wearing something they feel belong to "their" culture (whereby ironically they define cultural appartenance purely based on ethnicity and physical appearance).

Nail on the head.

It also goes some way to explain what Metaoblivia notes, that it's mostly European Americans leading the charge of racism etc. America for all its greatness has had a sad history of abuse and exploitation of non WASPs. African Americans an obvious and well known one, but the past exploitation of Asian Americans less well known outside of the place. So there is a fair bit of "White guilt" going on among the educated classes and they're more likely to get offended on other's behalf. We see similar among some in Europe. It's good to be aware of such past failures, but that doesn't mean we go full retard on the matter either.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 8:38am

milli milli wrote: »

For gods sake, my Asian sister-in-law gave me one of these dresses as a gift!

Didn’t she tell you that anytime you want to wear it you need to give her a ring to explain the reason and obtain her permission? ;-)

fatknacker · 30-04-2018 8:39am

Well if he's being a naughty boy then he can fk right off if he thinks he can celebrate Halloween or St Patrick's.

D3V!L · 30-04-2018 10:38am

Did anyone else think the dress looked a bit blue ?

Snake Plisken · 30-04-2018 10:44am

Look at this Irish lefty SJW getting all offended about the dress

https://twitter.com/bigpicguy/status/990723789720838145?s=21

taserfrank · 30-04-2018 10:46am

The girl who wore the dress was wrong to defend herself to that nutjob. She should have just said she bought the dress from Fook Yue.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 10:57am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Look at this Irish lefty SJW getting all offended about the dress

Good on the girl for not deleting her original tweet ... with all the abuse she’s getting it must be a pain but it’s a prime exhibit to the world of how some people wrap their hatred in so called anti-racism and get a free pass to do things which would - rightly - never be tolerated if the situation was reversed.

(For the record, I personally think the dress looks out of place on the picture and was a poor choice for the occasion, but if she wanted to wear it I don’t see the problem, Qipaos don’t have anything like the kind of sacred meaning in Chinese culture that the so-called Chinese commenters are making up on Twitter and there is nothing offending about wearing one in this situation)

tastyt · 30-04-2018 11:05am

The main thing is she had a lovely arse in that dress

whisky_galore · 30-04-2018 11:09am

policemen-taking-part-at-the-parade-for-the-chinese-new-year-in-hong-picture-id538804867?s=612x612

Paging Scotland...any outrage to be felt here?

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 11:10am

tastyt wrote: »

The main thing is she had a lovely arse in that dress

I think making fit and pretty woman bodies stand out while remaining formal and classy is pretty much what the people who designed the cut for Qipao dresses had in mind, and IMO they did very well indeed ;-)

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 11:16am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Paging Scotland...any outrage to be felt here?

I don’t know if I should dare posting this (genuine) Chinese wedding picture although Germans haven’t complained about cultural appropriation ;-)

(For the record, “Nazi-chic” really is a thing with a small group of young Asian people, purely for the looks and no ideology behind it, but still :-s)

Raging_Ninja · 30-04-2018 11:20am

Video of a black female teacher assaulting a white teenager in school because he was committing cultural appropriation with his dreadlocks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8

mcmoustache · 30-04-2018 11:27am

It has been suggested by comedians over the years that we need to start taking the warning labels off things like plastic bags and electrical equipment as a means of thinning the herd. I used to think that they were only joking and just had a smug chuckle to myself.

Now, I'm starting to think that they were onto something.

NIMAN · 30-04-2018 11:31am

splinter65 wrote: »

Need a day off tomorrow to cope with seeing the word “chinks”? You should see what they call you !!

One night in work we were trying to decide on a takeaway order.

We searched a few FB pages of local Chinese takeaways, and on one was the immortal quote from an obviously very satisfied customer, "great food, definitely the best chinkers in town".

CrankyHaus · 30-04-2018 11:33am

I would be astonished to find many Chinese people, as opposed to Chinese Americans, offended by this.

They're a fairly robust bunch and I'd say any comment on this on Weibo is people scratching their heads over the BS from the Baizuo, a Chinese term roughly analogous to Snowflake.

30-04-2018 11:41am

She pulled it off in fairness!

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 11:44am

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I would be astonished to find many Chinese people, as opposed to Chinese Americans, offended by this.

They're a fairly robust bunch and I'd say any comment on this on Weibo is people scratching their heads over the BS from the Baizuo, a Chinese term roughly analogous to Snowflake.

Actually the Confucius Institute here in Ireland would regularly organise events whereby they happily have Western women wearing Qipaos and even sometimes encourage them to do so.

For an organisation fully funded by the government of China, it would be a bit strange to organise events which are perceived by (actual) Chinese people as an attack on Chinese culture. Gives a bit of a clue about how really Chinese those people who complain on Twitter are ;-)

Roger Hassenforder · 30-04-2018 11:51am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She pulled it off in fairness!

....must resist...

whisky_galore · 30-04-2018 12:01pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I don’t know if I should dare posting this (genuine) Chinese wedding picture although Germans haven’t complained about cultural appropriation ;-)

(For the record, “Nazi-chic” really is a thing with a small group of young Asian people, purely for the looks and no ideology behind it, but still :-s)

There were 'Nazi chic' restaurants and bars in India and Korea that changed image or closed down on account of (perhaps not unreasonable) pressure from tourists or online commentary. But yes it is a thing, perhaps because they were so isolated from the European side of WW2 it doesn't have all the loaded meaning it has for Westerners.

One Hitler themed restaurant owner just thought Hitler no different to any other 'great men' who made history...Alexander the Great/Genghis Khan...etc.

Google 'Thai Hitler/Ronald McDonald' for some bizarre pics...

Wibbs · 30-04-2018 12:12pm

Bob24 wrote: »

(For the record, “Nazi-chic” really is a thing with a small group of young Asian people, purely for the looks and no ideology behind it, but still :-s)

In fairness they had the best uniforms. They knew how to work the iconography. Plus any actual nazi would spin at 10,000 RPM knowing a Chinese guy was wearing one of their "scared" uniforms and symbols. Swords into ploughshares fuck you's. Result.

Snickers Man · 30-04-2018 1:31pm

Swanner wrote: »

It’ll be racist to order a Chinese next..

Seriously where does this **** end

It’s getting a bit ****in scary

What? You're scared of some comfortably off numpty with "upward mobility guilt" looking for a cause and deciding that if he no longer has third world problems, like some of his recent ancestors probably did, he's damned well going to get angry about first world problems and demand that you ALL KNOW ABOUT IT!!!

Relax. There's nothing to fear from this guy.

Raging_Ninja · 30-04-2018 1:36pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

What? You're scared of some comfortably off numpty with "upward mobility guilt" looking for a cause and deciding that if he no longer has third world problems, like some of his recent ancestors probably did, he's damned well going to get angry about first world problems and demand that you ALL KNOW ABOUT IT!!!

Relax. There's nothing to fear from this guy.

Until idiots like him petition for widening anti-racism and anti hate speech laws to such an extent that, like in the UK today, teenagers get criminal records for posting lyrics of songs to Instagram.

Snickers Man · 30-04-2018 1:45pm

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Until idiots like him petition for widening anti-racism and anti hate speech laws to such an extent that, like in the UK today, teenagers get criminal records for posting lyrics of songs to Instagram.

Well I'm not sure what you're making reference to here so I can't comment. But I do remember seeing adverts for this Irish showband from my early childhood. And it seems they're still going.

Here's a pic from their website.

Talk about appropriation!!! If the guy on the extreme left isn't "appropriating" Garth Brooks' likeness, I'm an Apache!!

But seriously. How many pickets, calls for boycott, letters of outrage to local media outlets do you think these guys get?

Relax, all. There is no general support for any of this so-called "cultural appropriation" outrage.

wes · 30-04-2018 1:47pm

Wearing clothing from another culture isn't cultural appropriation. What is cultural appropriation, is taking something from another culture, and either claiming it is from your own culture, or in some way erasing what the item represents.

For example, Hindu religious items and South Asian clothing have been co-opted in the West and there origin deliberately obscured, most notably at festivals, with Hindu Religious items and South Asian clothing being referred to as "festival clothes". There is nothing wrong with wearing clothes from other cultures, but to deny where is comes from, is kind of crappy thing to do, or worse to claim its comes from your culture.

All cultures influences one another and taking the best ideas etc from other places is a good thing imo. Its only bad when you deny where some ideas etc came from.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 1:50pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

What? You're scared of some comfortably off numpty with "upward mobility guilt" looking for a cause and deciding that if he no longer has third world problems, like some of his recent ancestors probably did, he's damned well going to get angry about first world problems and demand that you ALL KNOW ABOUT IT!!!

Relax. There's nothing to fear from this guy.

As said by another poster a few pages ago, we could laugh about it if it was just that guy. But this cultural appropriation BS is very influencial in American universities (both staff and students) and in political circles. That can lead to real world consequences.

_Dara_ · 30-04-2018 2:00pm

I was heartened to see the girl receiving a lot of a support too.

Maybe it’s because I have heavy duty shiz going on in my life, but I really despair at how little some people have to worry about that a prom dress worn by somebody they don’t know angers them. These people have easy lives if this is what animates them.

_Dara_ · 30-04-2018 2:04pm

Has got on the Beeb’s radar. Will be interesting to see the reaction. I honestly think a lot of people are beginning to experience outrage fatigue.

Snickers Man · 30-04-2018 2:05pm

Bob24 wrote: »

As said by another poster a few pages ago, we could laugh about it if it was just that guy. But this cultural appropriation BS is very influencial in American universities (both staff and students) and in political circles. That can lead to real world consequences.

If it was taken seriously, it would. But when I first saw that clip of the African American girl attacking the white guy for wearing dreadlocks (a long time ago) I went searching around the web for reaction to see was anybody supporting her.

I found none. Instead I found a lot of African American bloggers and vloggers saying she had completely got the wrong end of the stick, that there are many more important things to worry about than how some white dude combs his hair and that they didn't have a problem with it anyway.

So, some perspective really is all I'm asking for. This sort of **** (and it IS ****) is the sort of thing that extremists on The Right (for want of a more precise term) love to big up as evidence that the lunatics are taking over and will soon run us all out of town.

Just because some bunch of pampered loonies in American colleges get their knickers in a knot over this issue because there's no longer a Vietnam war or civil rights campaign to protest about doesn't mean that any sizable body of opinion is going to take it seriously.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 2:07pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Has got on the Beeb’s radar. Will be interesting to see the reaction. I honestly think a lot of people are beginning to experience outrage fatigue.

I hope it eventually makes it to Chinese social media (a piece on the BBC website might help). Really would like to see what the Chinese would say about this.

20Cent · 30-04-2018 2:09pm

By outrage it's one tweet?
Perhaps the pc gone mad brigade could stop being such snowflakes and getting all triggered by tweets.

Rjd2 · 30-04-2018 2:12pm

20Cent wrote: »

By outrage it's one tweet?
Perhaps the pc gone mad brigade could stop being such snowflakes and getting all triggered by tweets.

Maybe, but I think the annoyance is some teenage girl is getting dragged by tedious people for merely wearing a ****ing dress.

Credit to her for standing her ground though, many others would have bullied into an apology by now.

Bob24 · 30-04-2018 2:13pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

If it was taken seriously, it would. But when I first saw that clip of the African American girl attacking the white guy for wearing dreadlocks (a long time ago) I went searching around the web for reaction to see was anybody supporting her.

I found none. Instead I found a lot of African American bloggers and vloggers saying she had completely got the wrong end of the stick, that there are many more important things to worry about than how some white dude combs his hair and that they didn't have a problem with it anyway.

So, some perspective really is all I'm asking for. This sort of **** (and it IS ****) is the sort of thing that extremists on The Right (for want of a more precise term) love to big up as evidence that the lunatics are taking over and will soon run us all out of town.

Just because some bunch of pampered loonies in American colleges get their knickers in a knot over this issue because there's no longer a Vietnam war or civil rights campaign to protest about doesn't mean that any sizable body of opinion is going to take it seriously.

See the BBC piece posted above. They don’t present it as a matter of one loony vs everyone. There are many people siding with him (and again the issue is that some of them are influencial in education and politics).

30-04-2018 2:14pm

20Cent wrote: »

By outrage it's one tweet?
Perhaps the pc gone mad brigade could stop being such snowflakes and getting all triggered by tweets.

Wish Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding were given similar perspective. Sadly their careers were ended.

Malayalam · 30-04-2018 2:19pm

wes wrote: »

Wearing clothing from another culture isn't cultural appropriation. What is cultural appropriation, is taking something from another culture, and either claiming it is from your own culture, or in some way erasing what the item represents.

For example, Hindu religious items and South Asian clothing have been co-opted in the West and there origin deliberately obscured, most notably at festivals, with Hindu Religious items and South Asian clothing being referred to as "festival clothes". There is nothing wrong with wearing clothes from other cultures, but to deny where is comes from, is kind of crappy thing to do, or worse to claim its comes from your culture.

All cultures influences one another and taking the best ideas etc from other places is a good thing imo. Its only bad when you deny where some ideas etc came.

Bit hard to say exactly where some things come from, though, if one goes back far enough. Genghis Khan might rightfully claim a fair number of us came from him! Take Alexandria, for example. Thousands of years ago, in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, people from Egypt, Persia, Arabia, India, China, Greece, Rome, Syria, Morocco, Turkey and many more places, congregated and freely debated cultural ideas, philosophies and religions like Zoroastrianism, Vedic thought, Hermeticism, Buddhism, early Christian, and Platonic and Neo-Platonic ideas, etc etc. They set the foundations for scientific methods, scholarship and academia by sharing ideas and information from very different places. This inter-cultural sharing and widespread cultural appropriation had a huge influence on the Hellenistic world of ideas, and societal, commercial and political practices, and in turn the Hellenistic culture was the bedrock of the philosophical, scientific, political and ethical foundation of Europe, even to this day. Mathematicians, scientists, artists and intellectuals from many lands congregated there, and were publicly funded to exchange with one another. The exchanges (cultural appropriation

) at Alexandria, before its inevitable decline, was among the events that laid the foundations for all our fields of modern sciences. Copies made of documents in the library preserved ancient knowledge, without which we would be a whole lot dumber. Its not just tea, coffee and frocks we have borrowed from each other, but our essential ideas of what it is to be human.*
(* sketchy outline at best, but you can get the gist...)

Snickers Man · 30-04-2018 2:33pm

Does anyone remember a TV series called Bringing it All Back Home made about 25 years ago by the musician Philip King?

It was made to examine the influence of Irish music on American music and featured contributions from numerous people including Elvis Costelloe, Bono, Emmylou Harris, the Everley Brothers, Ricky Scaggs and others. Nowhere did it try to claim that American music is Irish in origin; just that Irish tunes were melded with music from other countries and regions to evolve into Bluegrass, C&W, gospel, the Blues and even in some cases Jazz.

On the first episode (I used to have it on tape but have lost it over the years) he was interviewing the legendary American musical historian Pete Seeger who demonstrated the effect brilliantly. He started humming an African American spiritual called Rockin' my Soul in the Bosom of Abraham. (look for it on youtube)

He then said: "You can see where that comes from" and launched into an arcetypal, stereotypical cliched Irish diddly dee tune. It's so obvious that I don't know the name of it but just think of the refrain diddly diddly diddly diddly, diddly diddly diddly diddly and it will inevitably pop into your head.

Same tune; different beat. But an African synhopated rhythm on it and it changes from Irish to Black American in an instant.

American music is aural miscegenation. End of.

"They" stole our music as much as "we" stole theirs.

Sonics2k · 30-04-2018 2:37pm

20Cent wrote: »

By outrage it's one tweet?
Perhaps the pc gone mad brigade could stop being such snowflakes and getting all triggered by tweets.

Y'know what, I can get over the guy being offended. He's a total hypocrite, but he can be offended if he wants.

What really, really, really is pissing me off is the amount of abuse intentionally thrown at an 18 year old girl who just wore a dress. It's astoundingly pathetic and who knows how she's going to handle all this.

wes · 30-04-2018 3:08pm

Malayalam wrote: »

Bit hard to say exactly where some things come from, though, if one goes back far enough. Genghis Khan might rightfully claim a fair number of us came from him! Take Alexandria, for example. Thousands of years ago, in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, people from Egypt, Persia, Arabia, India, China, Greece, Rome, Syria, Morocco, Turkey and many more places, congregated and freely debated cultural ideas, philosophies and religions like Zoroastrianism, Vedic thought, Hermeticism, Buddhism, early Christian, and Platonic and Neo-Platonic ideas, etc etc. They set the foundations for scientific methods, scholarship and academia by sharing ideas and information from very different places. This inter-cultural sharing and widespread cultural appropriation had a huge influence on the Hellenistic world of ideas, and societal, commercial and political practices, and in turn the Hellenistic culture was the bedrock of the philosophical, scientific, political and ethical foundation of Europe, even to this day. Mathematicians, scientists, artists and intellectuals from many lands congregated there, and were publicly funded to exchange with one another. The exchanges (cultural appropriation ) at Alexandria, before its inevitable decline, was among the events that laid the foundations for all our fields of modern sciences. Copies made of documents in the library preserved ancient knowledge, without which we would be a whole lot dumber. Its not just tea, coffee and frocks we have borrowed from each other, but our essential ideas of what it is to be human.*
(* sketchy outline at best, but you can get the gist...)

Yes, sometime where something came from can be a bit hard to nail down. I am talking about people who know where something comes from and deliberately obfuscating where it came from. I am not talking about people learning idea's etc from one another. I am all for that.

Basically, my point is that cultural appropriation is something that does happen, but that it is far more narrow then how some people interpret it. Again people learning from each other and taking ideas etc from one another is not cultural appropriation, they are cultural exchanges.

The example I gave of South Asian clothes being rebranded as "festival outfits", is what I would call cultural appropriation. I wouldn't call someone wearing a Saree for example cultural appropriation for example. I wouldn't call a Western designer being inspired by the clothing and coming up with there own spin on it either, cultural appropriation either.

I do think a lot of people do go over board condemning cultural appropriation, but there are instances where is does happen and it can be pretty blatant.

Basically, what I was trying to say is that the girl wearing the dress was not engaged in cultural appropriation, and I gave an example of actual cultural appropriation to differentiate it.

Snake Plisken · 30-04-2018 5:06pm

Nathan from H3H3 nails it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvdDKjy-87w

J. Marston · 30-04-2018 7:25pm

I like that she says she's leaving the post up. A lot of people would feel forced to remove it and beg for forgiveness for doing nothing wrong.

What's worse/more confusing is the guy got 180,000 likes for his post.

Cultural appropriation outrage.

Comments