Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Flinty997 · 10-05-2021 7:04pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

........ and prevent us becoming the biggest Aircraft carrier the world has ever seen anchored off the coast of Europe on the other.

There is no credible threat that could land such a force on Ireland and with the ability to defend itself a long way from home and with the US, UK and Europe on its doorstep. It would make the charge of the light brigade seem same.

You're trying to sell crazy.

Flinty997 · 10-05-2021 7:08pm

A more realistic threat is to other resources ....

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/what-are-russian-bombers-doing-in-irish-airspace-1.4197785

Gary kk · 10-05-2021 7:14pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

There is no credible threat that could land such a force on Ireland and with the ability to defend itself a long way from home and with the US, UK and Europe on its doorstep. It would make the charge of the light brigade seem same.

You're trying to sell crazy.

You assume the US or the UK wouldn't do if they had to.
But you do have a point if we got to that stage nukes could have already landed.

Not that I believe that would happen.

Flinty997 · 10-05-2021 7:25pm

You could argue Ireland is painting a bullseye on its back being a critical part of communication infrastructure. As such it might need the protection of NATO for that reason alone.

Gary kk · 11-05-2021 10:43am

Flinty997 wrote: »

You could argue Ireland is painting a bullseye on its back being a critical part of communication infrastructure. As such it might need the protection of NATO for that reason alone.

Not really it would only take one sub to destory the transatlantic cables. Two would be better but one would work.

Flinty997 · 11-05-2021 11:10am

Gary kk wrote: »

Not really it would only take one sub to destory the transatlantic cables. Two would be better but one would work.

Just like in WWI when all the remote telegraph stations and cables were targeted I'm sure modern navies have all all those cables marked and plans in place to cut them if required. Defending against it, would be difficult even for NATO. But anti sub warfare is one of its main tasks.

Ireland not so much.

The Ryanair model of invade Europe via Ireland is a lot more fun. Lets keep going with that.

Stovepipe · 11-05-2021 12:06pm

Who said it's a Ryanair model? I'll bet the Soviet war planners probably wargamed an attack on Western Europe with Ireland as a potential gateway to launch disruptive attacks on the UK. A bomber leaving Murmansk could be over Ireland within a few hours and a couple of submarines could close the Irish Sea. If the UK had to fight a war against a Russian land invasion of Europe, whilst looking over it's shoulder at warfare in Ireland, then it's a different ballgame. If Ireland was a NATO member, it would have access to all sorts of weapons and the treasury and manpower to operate them. That's a whole different question,altogether.

banie01 · 11-05-2021 1:20pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Leonardo just released an update to this story clarifying that not only is it inaccurate, they have not yet entered into any contract with Nigeria, either for C27 or M346, stating "Nigeria is not a C27J customer".
They did confirm however:

https://sundiatapost.com/m-346fa-aircraft-italian-company-says-no-contract-with-nigeria/

The Israeli/italo contract for M346 is an interesting one too.
Basically a swap deal, Italy is funding the trainer's in return for Israeli AWACS gear and Recon satellites and I think some drone technology too.
Then Israel further contracted with Greece for a Flight Training centre there.

The move towards offsets, credits and exchanges in big military deals is growing and becoming far broader than it used to be.

Flinty997 · 11-05-2021 5:03pm

The sticking point from my interpretation, and I'm open to connection. For aircraft like the Bae Hawk and now more modern types like the M346 is that integration of radar and associated equipment is a massive rise in costs to the point at which people either cancel that capability or just upgrade to the Griphen. It's different where they are already heavily invested in a type like the Tiger II and is effecting the number of airframes they want.

M346 seems to be struggling to close deals. Maybe I'm wrong and is just the nature of light attack aircraft deals. Or aircraft deals in general.

hmmm · 11-05-2021 5:11pm

Don't mean to go off-topic, but this topic all seems a bit 1980s. The most serious Russian intrusions these days is in Cyberspace. The notpetya attacks in Ukraine were a test run for the type of industrial and infrastructural sabotage the Russians are capable of, as they simply shut down the Ukrainian power grid and wiped financial records. Their government also turns a blind eye to hacking groups who are spreading ransomware and other types of malware in the "West" with complete impunity. Advanced economies are moving to provide their various communities (healthcare, business, government) with rapid response resources that can respond in the event of a cyberattack, resources we do not have to offer.

Before we go waving roundels at aging Bears a hundred miles off the coast, I'd be putting the money into hardening our ICS infrastructure and also providing a rapid response cyber capability.

Flinty997 · 11-05-2021 7:15pm

Some ideas

https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/09/we-did-barrel-rolls-around-tu-95s-at-the-request-of-the-soviets-f-4-wso-explains-the-story-of-the-phantom-upside-down-near-bear/

zom · 13-05-2021 11:04am

hmmm wrote: »

Before we go waving roundels at aging Bears a hundred miles off the coast, I'd be putting the money into hardening our ICS infrastructure and also providing a rapid response cyber capability.

Even if so, with our labor costs and lowest defense spending in EU this woud be probably 100% outsourced to Pakistan or Nigeria anyway

thomil · 13-05-2021 7:27pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

You aren't wrong there, however, last year one of those bears spent a few hours circling above porcupine bight, off the Kerry coast, transponders off.
From its tail it trails a 5km antennae wire, permitting them to securely communicate using VLF with Russian Submarines working undersea.
Oh and also this spot is the same place where most of the telecommunications cables connecting Europe and the US are located.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-planes-flying-in-rings-off-kerry-linked-to-submarines-s23vs9xw9

Makes you wonder if BS-64 Podmoskovye was in the area at the same time. She's a heavily modified Delta-IV SSBN that took over underwater "research" duties from KS-411, an old Yankee class SSBN, back in the mid 2000s. Basically, these boats had their missile compartments torn out and replaced with "research" equipment, labs, additional computer capacity and a ventral docking port for a Paltus class mini-sub that can reach depths in excess of 1000 metres. Torpedo storage and fire control compartments have also been removed to facilitate the extra crew.

Check out Sub Brief's video about KS-411 on YouTube, it's fascinating and he certainly sounds like he knows his stuff.

zom · 14-05-2021 2:53pm

hmmm wrote: »

Before we go waving roundels at aging Bears a hundred miles off the coast, I'd be putting the money into hardening our ICS infrastructure and also providing a rapid response cyber capability.

As life proves again today we are too stupid to take good decisions down to the point that leads to total catastrophe. Banking, housing, HSE and many many more in future...

Larbre34 · 14-05-2021 6:57pm

zom wrote: »

As live proves again today we are too stupid to take good decisions down to the point that leads to total catastrophe. Banking, housing, HSE and many many more in future.,.

Absolutely right.

But the protection of networks and ICS goes hand in hand with the physical protection of hard infrastructure, including offshore cables, pipelines and increasingly wind turbines.

We don't commit nearlty enough resources to any of these responsibilities.

Larbre34 · 18-05-2021 7:48pm

A USAF C-17 Globemaster stopped off at Casement this morning for what the DF described as "a technicality stop as part of a crew training mission."

The flight originated in Washington State, via an Air National Guard base in Bangor, Maine and continued on to Britain after a few hours at the Don.

This follows on from yesterday, when a MH60 Seahawk off the destroyer USS Paul Ignatius operating in the the Atlantic, ferried four of their crew to Shannon to meet a flight. An IAC AW139 rendezvoused with the Seahawk and flew in formation with them "for training purposes".

Psychlops · 18-05-2021 8:59pm

C17 94-0068 C/S: SLAM69, Tactical Callsign, Pilot informed ATC he was a Longford Native, cleared down to 3,500 & took in the Cliffs of Moher & Galway Bay before headed for Longford before headed to Casement AB Baldonnel.

sparky42 · 18-05-2021 9:43pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

A USAF C-17 Globemaster stopped off at Casement this morning for what the DF described as "a technicality stop as part of a crew training mission."

The flight originated in Washington State, via an Air National Guard base in Bangor, Maine and continued on to Britain after a few hours at the Don.

This follows on from yesterday, when a MH60 Seahawk off the destroyer USS Paul Ignatius operating in the the Atlantic, ferried four of their crew to Shannon to meet a flight. An IAC AW139 rendezvoused with the Seahawk and flew in formation with them "for training purposes".

To be fair the USN flight was in part to drop off a member of the crew who was flying home for a family bereavement.

Psychlops · 18-05-2021 9:47pm

So this morning while most of us were at Work, a United States Air Force C17 Globemaster quietly worked her way low level through Irish Airspace taking in the Cliffs of Moher & Galway Bay before headed to Casement Air Base to visit the Irish Air Corps.

What made it special is the Pilot of the C17 is an Irishman himself, have a listen to this Audio between Shannon Air Traffic Control & USAF C17 on a Tactical Callsign of “SLAM69”.

Audio by Liveatc.net, it’s the very first recording in the link provided “SLAM69”.

Enjoy:
https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

ohnonotgmail · 18-05-2021 9:54pm

Psychlops wrote: »

So this morning while most of us were at Work, a United States Air Force C17 Globemaster quietly worked her way low level through Irish Airspace taking in the Cliffs of Moher & Galway Bay before headed to Casement Air Base to visit the Irish Air Corps.

What made it special is the Pilot of the C17 is an Irishman himself, have a listen to this Audio between Shannon Air Traffic Control & USAF C17 on a Tactical Callsign of “SLAM69”.

Audio by Liveatc.net, it’s the very first recording in the link provided “SLAM69”.

Enjoy:
https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

loved the pronunciation. Ballin-aslow. Casemont.

Larbre34 · 18-05-2021 10:08pm

sparky42 wrote: »

To be fair the USN flight was in part to drop off a member of the crew who was flying home for a family bereavement.

When have you ever heard that in the middle of a mission before? Unless it was a senior officer, or somebody very well connected, I don't buy it.

sparky42 · 18-05-2021 10:26pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

When have you ever heard that in the middle of a mission before? Unless it was a senior officer, or somebody very well connected, I don't buy it.

So what do you think happen? Given they were just on a training exercise and were going to drop off a few contractors anyway (presuming in Scotland)...

There is a procedure for Emergency leave in a Family Bereavement situation at the commanders discretion.

https://www.military.com/spouse/military-benefits/military-family-emergency-leave.html
https://classroom.synonym.com/navy-emergency-leave-requirements-13583756.html

Larbre34 · 18-05-2021 10:28pm

Yeah fair enough, if they had other crew to offload then fine. I've no other explanation, it just seems odd circumstances to do it.

20-05-2021 8:08am

Slam69 seems to have brought an awful lot of attention on himself during his little trip. Surely unwise?

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 2:03pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Slam69 seems to have brought an awful lot of attention on himself during his little trip. Surely unwise?

It was great to have them visit. I'm sure the sight of this unusual and impressive aircraft at relatively low level over and around Ireland interested many people.

Ships and aircraft from the militaries of our close friends and colleague nations are always welcome and provide opportunities for our own Defence Forces to exercise and train with them.

Slán abhaile Slam69.

sparky42 · 20-05-2021 2:05pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Military aircraft lands at military base. Flies over countryside first.

Where's the story?

Shinners going to shinner... Ó Broin is demanding to know why it landed in his constituency :rolleyes:

20-05-2021 2:10pm

Was it always planned to land here?

If I was doing a bit of sightseeing in the company wagon over the Ma & Das house I wouldn't expect the whole world to find out. Questions being asked in the dail. Will it cause any bother for the pilot?

https://mobile.twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1394925581251264513

ohnonotgmail · 20-05-2021 2:13pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Was it always planned to land here?

If I was doing a bit of sightseeing in the company wagon over the Ma & Das house I wouldn't expect the whole world to find out. Questions being asked in the dail. Will it cause any bother for the pilot?

https://mobile.twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1394925581251264513

O Broin is a clown.

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 3:11pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

O Broin is a clown.

He has learned from the best.

20-05-2021 3:14pm

He may be but he also looks likely to be a minister in the next government, it would be very interesting if SF want to take a stronger line on the US stopovers.

But more seriously would the sightseeing cause the pilots any problems?

20-05-2021 4:25pm

Iv seen the Mach Loop vids. Very cool indeed and I wouldnt mind seeing it in real life.

I cant help but think a C-17 doing low level tactical flying at high speed and taking the roof off Tommy-Joes hayshed flying 15 feet over it would cause more problems. :pac::pac:

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 4:34pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Google "Machloop".
It's not sightseeing. It's a navigation exercise.

No, it was definitely sightseeing.

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 4:36pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

He may be but he also looks likely to be a minister in the next government, it would be very interesting if SF want to take a stronger line on the US stopovers.

But more seriously would the sightseeing cause the pilots any problems?

Lol, no.

Even if SF got 79 seats, which they wouldn't as their ceiling would be approx 50, it will always be a Govt of the other 81.

davetherave · 20-05-2021 5:09pm

I wonder is it just that it is a Yank plane that he has a problem with?

Looking back through his tweets there is no mention of the French Air Force place that landed in Shannon on the 13th of this month?

No mention of outrage for the Canadian that came in on the fifth of May either?

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 5:23pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

I bet you are one of those people who asks a question in a class at 3.45 on a friday evening...

SHH!

Lols. Yes.

sparky42 · 20-05-2021 6:03pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Perfectly happy when the yanks were bringing over guns for his comrades in the North.

Of course, that’s just fine. I also love his bs about locals being concerned about the size of the C17, it’s not the first time they’ve been here ffs. And Murphy can just shut the feck up.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 20-05-2021 7:11pm

Are all Irish airports/aerodromes able to handle the big US transports?

ohnonotgmail · 20-05-2021 7:20pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Are all Irish airports/aerodromes able to handle the big US transports?

it is smaller than a 747

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 20-05-2021 7:32pm

Is it some kind of Memorandum of Understanding we have signed with the likes of France and the USA that allows them to land transports at Irish airports? Or does it only really matter if they were fighter aircraft or something?

sparky42 · 20-05-2021 8:07pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Is it some kind of Memorandum of Understanding we have signed with the likes of France and the USA that allows them to land transports at Irish airports? Or does it only really matter if they were fighter aircraft or something?

We don’t have any MoUs regarding flights, like the helicopter earlier in the week I imagine the US had got agreement from the DFA for the flight and landing.

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 9:22pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Are all Irish airports/aerodromes able to handle the big US transports?

Dublin and Shannon can handle anything that flies. The larger C-5 Super Galaxy would have landed at both as part of the fleet that accompanies US Presidents on visits.

For the others, including Casement AD, it would likely depend on fuel and cargo load limits. But also, these military transports are massively powerful compared to large civilian planes, in order that they can take off, quickly, steeply and over relatively short distances on runway, even when fully laden.

Psychlops · 20-05-2021 9:30pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

He may be but he also looks likely to be a minister in the next government, it would be very interesting if SF want to take a stronger line on the US stopovers.

But more seriously would the sightseeing cause the pilots any problems?

No US stop overs but take their money no problem buddy.

sparky42 · 20-05-2021 9:37pm

Psychlops wrote: »

No US stop overs but take their money no problem buddy.

The shinner way...

Psychlops · 20-05-2021 9:37pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Is it some kind of Memorandum of Understanding we have signed with the likes of France and the USA that allows them to land transports at Irish airports? Or does it only really matter if they were fighter aircraft or something?

No, Diplomatic clearance is sought & either approved or not approved, the French among others are into Shannon alot as its well known for crosswind training & then usually head back to France or do a nav exercise cross country, its the same with other Militaries & most are for fuel or a Crew rest.

In fact it is no different to our Air Corps ladies & gents doing it in other Nations, PC12 "280" is only so new & when she started service & since then has literally been spotted all over Europe/UK either on a tasking or a Nav Ex along with the rest of the PC12 Fleet.

jonnybigwallet · 21-05-2021 7:29am

Do the British or Spanish ever use the AC facilities?

davydoc · 21-05-2021 10:25am

The RAF will ONLY protect our air space IF the threat is ALSO a threat to theirs, otherwise it's every country for itself I'd imagine...

davydoc · 21-05-2021 10:28am

Sorry - that relates to a post WAY up the thread - probably already addressed elsewhere

source · 21-05-2021 11:11am

davydoc wrote: »

The RAF will ONLY protect our air space IF the threat is ALSO a threat to theirs, otherwise it's every country for itself I'd imagine...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30748619.html

davydoc · 21-05-2021 11:48am

Surprised at that, tbh, but see it hasn't been officially confirmed...

Gary kk · 23-05-2021 6:40pm

They must be warming the pc9 at moment just to scare those White Russians

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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