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202 Hyundai Kona brake failure

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2

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    #32
    Miscreant
    Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    PsychoPete wrote: »
    Not every single part, nut, bolt, clip, etc is checked during a pdi. You cant spend that much time doing a pdi on a car just because one part failed on one car

    But you can certainly change your PDI procedures as a result of this occurrence. That was the salient part of my point. The OP is entitled to know that the garage will now double down on their inspections to make sure this never happens again to anyone else.


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    #33
    barney shamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭barney shamrock


    Would the car have been checked over again by the local dealer after being checked by hyundai when it rolled off the production line?


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    #34
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    barney shamrock wrote: »
    Would the car have been checked over again by the local dealer after being checked by hyundai when it rolled off the production line?

    Nope....

    Out the door and bye


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    #35
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭kirving


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    All the fluid burst out.... Pull electronic handbrake and keep it pulled

    They really should be separate circuits? Terrible design if not.

    Agreed on the electronic handbrake.


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    #36
    barney shamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭barney shamrock


    Manual handbrake on the 1.6d.


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    #37
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    barney shamrock wrote: »
    Manual handbrake on the 1.6d.

    Wasn't sure but if electronic keep it pulled or pressed depending on switch set up.


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    #38
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    zg3409 wrote: »
    Typically on most cars, there is 2 mostly separate systems. One does 2 wheels, other does other 2 wheels.

    There are two ways to do dual circuit brakes -

    The "three wheel" where each circuit does both front brakes and one rear wheel

    The "4+2" where one circuit does all four wheels, one does both front wheels.

    Either way you have braking on both front wheels with one circuit out, you should not have to pump (pumping will not help a brake circuit which still has pressure), but push the pedal into the floor.

    Also the handbrake is legally required as a totally independent braking system, it's not great but it's there and electronic or not it needs to be able to stop the car from at least low speed.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #39
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Nope....

    Out the door and bye

    Of course it would have been re-checked, thats the intention of a PDI.

    It's not really practical or sensible though to check every nut and bolt on every single car, nor is it asked or required.

    Terrivle thing to have happened to OP and it could have been an awful lot worse. I dont personally think it's cause to change PDI procedures.

    The right thing for the dealer to do is to feed it back to Hyundai, let them find out how this could have happened then take steps based on what they say next. Was it a freak occurance, did it happen to a batch of cars etc.


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    #40
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    There are two ways to do dual circuit brakes -

    The "three wheel" where each circuit does both front brakes and one rear wheel

    The "4+2" where one circuit does all four wheels, one does both front wheels.

    Either way you have braking on both front wheels with one circuit out, you should not have to pump (pumping will not help a brake circuit which still has pressure), but push the pedal into the floor.

    Also the handbrake is legally required as a totally independent braking system, it's not great but it's there and electronic or not it needs to be able to stop the car from at least low speed.

    This!

    Surely all modern cars have dual circuit brake systems at this stage? It doesn't matter if a hose bursts, only half of the brake fluid will escape, leaving the second circuit still working.

    I find it hard to believe there would be total brake failure, unless both circuits have been damaged.


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    #41
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Silent Running wrote: »
    This!

    Surely all modern cars have dual circuit brake systems at this stage? It doesn't matter if a hose bursts, only half of the brake fluid will escape, leaving the second circuit still working.

    I find it hard to believe there would be total brake failure, unless both circuits have been damaged.

    Ive had brake failure twice in my time driving, both times from burst flexi hose at wheel. Once because the car simply wasnt maintained in my younger day and the second time due to an incorrectly installed brake pipe.
    Both times, in cars with dual circuits and the pedal went to the floor offering no useable brake on that first press of the pedal.


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    #42
    mk7r
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭mk7r


    mickdw wrote: »
    Ive had brake failure twice in my time driving, both times from burst flexi hose at wheel. Once because the car simply wasnt maintained in my younger day and the second time due to an incorrectly installed brake pipe.
    Both times, in cars with dual circuits and the pedal went to the floor offering no useable brake on that first press of the pedal.

    This is how it works generally, there will be no brakes once a hose bursts, dual circuit or not.


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    #43
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,394 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Didn’t the same thing happen on a Suzuki Celario on test with Autocar about 5 years ago? Remember a big thing about it at the time


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    #44
    extra-ordinary_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    Is electronic handbrake not mechanical as opposed to hydraulic?


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    #45
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    extra-ordinary_ wrote: »
    Is electronic handbrake not mechanical as opposed to hydraulic?

    In VW it is just connected to electrical motor connected to the caliber.

    Not connected to service brakes at all.
    Never tried to engage it at speed, though. Not sure it is gonna work that way.


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    #46
    mk7r
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭mk7r


    wonski wrote: »
    In VW it is just connected to electrical motor connected to the caliber.

    Not connected to service brakes at all.
    Never tried to engage it at speed, though. Not sure it is gonna work that way.

    It works if you hold it


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    McCrack wrote: »
    The PCP brigade wont like this story - one of their justifications for stretching to get a brand new vehicle is safety

    Don't knock PCP until you try it.


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    #48
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Dual circuit brakes go way back - 1970's at least. So losing 1 circuit of the hydraulics shouldn't give you a total brake failure.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    extra-ordinary_ wrote: »
    Is electronic handbrake not mechanical as opposed to hydraulic?

    Indeed, it's a cable essentially.


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    #50
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Total brake failure on a new car? I hope Hyundai are taking this very seriously and not treating it as a one off, if the OP had crashed and this was the US it could have meant a huge settlement and potential recall.

    Modern manufacturing means Hyundai will be able track who tightened that bolt at the factory and see what went wrong.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's very little consumer protection in Ireland when it comes to cars, once you buy a car you're stuck with it where as in the USA if it's defective you can give it back, lemon law or something they call it.


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    #52
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There's very little consumer protection in Ireland when it comes to cars, once you buy a car you're stuck with it where as in the USA if it's defective you can give it back, lemon law or something they call it.

    That's not entirely true.

    A friend of mine got a brand new replacement of Kia Sportage at 6-9 months after original date of sale.

    The wiring was faulty and they couldn't fix it in the end. This did take few visits and phone calls, but if it is faulty they will have no choice, but to replace.

    They only bought new because they finally wanted a peace of mind after driving old bangers for years. Didn't work well for them.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wonski wrote: »
    That's not entirely true.

    A friend of mine got a brand new replacement of Kia Sportage at 6-9 months after original date of sale.

    The wiring was faulty and they couldn't fix it in the end. This did take few visits and phone calls, but if it is faulty they will have no choice, but to replace.

    They only bought new because they finally wanted a peace of mind after driving old bangers for years. Didn't work well for them.

    That's fine if they can't fix it but if it's fixable that is all they're obliged to do you can't reject a car once purchased in Ireland as far as I'm aware and the dealer is only obliged to fix it or replace it if it's not repairable. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


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    #54
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    [PHP][/PHP]
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't knock PCP until you try it.

    No - It's a mugs game - its essentially taking a loan to pay for depreciation on a car (usually bland ones too) you "buy" - a monthly payment that finances the most value the car loses in its first three years.


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    #55
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,389 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    road_high wrote: »
    Didn’t the same thing happen on a Suzuki Celario on test with Autocar about 5 years ago? Remember a big thing about it at the time

    I think what happened with the Celerio is that the pedal itself detached from the braking system under hard braking.


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    #56
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,389 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    McCrack wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    No - It's a mugs game - its essentially taking a loan to pay for depreciation on a car (usually bland ones too) you "buy" - a monthly payment that finances the most value the car loses in its first three years.

    It’s no worse than buying a new car.
    Buying a new car isn’t everybody’s idea of sensible or feasible. Whatever.


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    #57
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    It’s no worse than buying a new car.
    Buying a new car isn’t everybody’s idea of sensible or feasible. Whatever.

    If someone has the earnings/savings by all means buy a new car if they wish - PCP however just makes accessible (quite cleverly through marketing) new cars to people that otherwise could not afford them - but they can "afford" the repayments. Its foolish.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    McCrack wrote: »
    If someone has the earnings/savings by all means buy a new car if they wish - PCP however just makes accessible (quite cleverly through marketing) new cars to people that otherwise could not afford them - but they can "afford" the repayments. Its foolish.
    McCrack wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    No - It's a mugs game - its essentially taking a loan to pay for depreciation on a car (usually bland ones too) you "buy" - a monthly payment that finances the most value the car loses in its first three years.

    If they can afford the payments they can afford the "most value the car loses in its first three years" ............where is the problem?
    If you can afford to pay 55/60% of the price of a car over it's first 3 years then I'm sure you can afford the balance over the next few years.

    You are actually advocating PCP in your posts :)


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    #59
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,389 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    McCrack wrote: »
    If someone has the earnings/savings by all means buy a new car if they wish - PCP however just makes accessible (quite cleverly through marketing) new cars to people that otherwise could not afford them - but they can "afford" the repayments. Its foolish.

    Don’t agree. It’s a bit of an elitist attitude.


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    #60
    sumo12
    Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭sumo12


    Real life PCP example - I had sufficient equity in car 1 after 3 years of PCP to move onto 0% HP finance on car 2. 2 years later had sufficient equity to move onto car 3 on 0% HP. Now in a position where my HP loan is only 60% of the value of the new car.

    PCP works if you look after the car, keep to mileage and build a relationship with a dealer. That's the idea of it. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, but to say its a marketing gimmick or foolish or whatever is wrong.


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    #61
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Augeo wrote: »
    If they can afford the payments they can afford the "most value the car loses in its first three years" ............where is the problem?
    If you can afford to pay 55/60% of the price of a car over it's first 3 years then I'm sure you can afford the balance over the next few years.

    You are actually advocating PCP in your posts :)

    Im conscious this thread isn't about pcp so I'll say this much before a mod jumps in..

    The difficulty of course is a lot of people can't afford the balloon payment so they either get finance for that or give the car back and start it all over again, wash and repeat.

    Clearly there's people around here involved in the motor trade and nobody likes their soup getting pissed in but that's the reality, it's a winner for the showrooms at the expense of people that get sucked into it because they can "afford" the repayments on a heavily depreciating asset. It's beyond crazy.


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