Mr Kitty O'Shea - Captain Willie O'Shea - the Most Vilified Man in Ireland - Why ??

CDfm · 13-12-2010 12:59am

See this link at the end of column 2 page 757 - was Willie a Hereditary Count of the Holy Roman Empire cos this link says he was ??????

http://books.google.ie/books?id=ZZmJfoiaZi0C&pg=PA757&lpg=PA757&dq=william+henry+o%27shea+descendants&source=bl&ots=VSSoKnIk74&sig=4rl5jBvuLcBtXfbMa0vVpFbqPQ0&hl=en&ei=KGEFTe3HHYmHhQfn6NHtBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=william%20henry%20o%27shea%20descendants&f=false

CDfm · 13-12-2010 1:39am

I have found a genealogical link for all Katies children giving dates of death and marriage details

> > Children of KATHARINE WOOD and WILLIAM O'SHEA are:
> > i. GERARD WILLIAM HENRY11 O'SHEA, b. 1870, Brighton,
> > England; d. Aft. 1936, in ?; m. CHRISTABEL BARRETT-LENNARD, ?
> > ii. MARY "NORAH" O'SHEA, b. January 1873, Chelsea, England; d.
> > 1923, in ?.
> > iii. ANNA MARIA DEL "CARMEN" O'SHEA, b. August 1874, Chelsea,
> > England; d. 1921, in ?; m. (1) EDWARD LINGUARD LUCAS,
> > Aft. 1914, in ?; m. (2) ARTHUR HERBERT BUCK, ?.
> >
> > Children of KATHARINE WOOD and CHARLES PARNELL are:
> > iv. CLAUDE SOPHIE11 O'SHEA, b. 1882, Eltham, Kent, England;
> > d. 1882, Eltham, Kent, England.
> > 33. v. CLARE GABRIELLE ANTOINETTE MARCIA O'SHEA,
> > b. March 04, 1883, Eltham, Kent, England; d. 1911, in ?.
> > vi. FRANCES "KATIE" FLAVIA O'SHEA, b. November 27,
> > 1884, Eltham, Kent, England; d. 1947, in ?; m. LOUIS D'OYLEY
> > HORSFORD MOULE, July 1907, in ?.
> >

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WOOD-ENG/2000-10/0971388700

If you look closely here you will see that Gerard married a cousin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett-Lennard_Baronets

Barrett-Lennard married Emma Wood, daughter of Reverend Sir John Wood, 2nd Baronet, on 18 January 1853. They had eight children:

# Anna Cristabel Barrett-Lennard (d. 1945), married Lieutenant Gerard Henry William O'Shea in 1895;

So it appears that the O'Sheas stayed close to their Wood cousins.

I read in John Parnells memoir that Katie did not get on with the Parnell family ,and had broken off contact with them all except John, and they met once after Charles death and contact with him fizzled out.

Anna Maria -married Sir Edward Lucas - a Baronet

So there would seem to be decendants knocking about and they got on in society.

CDfm · 13-12-2010 8:41pm

There are a few things I would like to know the answers to.

When Parnell died what were the state of his finances as it is mentioned in Johns Memoir that he subsidised MP's out of his own pockets. That would put the " who is the master of the party" comment in a different light -as in i.e. I have bought you and paid for you.

The issue of MP's salaries did not become law until 1911 - so MP's who were not wealthy or were not appointed to a position of responsibility were owned. So getting a spy would have been a reasonable thing to do.

He was a very allof man. Did he have "friends" within the IPPP.

After his death, his brother John seems to have gotten Avondale - had he made any provision for his wife and childsren.

CDfm · 13-12-2010 9:20pm

So did Charles make any provision for Katie and the children - and what was Katie's life like following his death.

Parnell came from a wealthy Catholic family of eleven children

He was the eldest son and inherited the family estate in Avondale when his father died.
The remainder of the lands and properties went to the other sons. Anna and Fanny, two of the Parnell sisters in the family received a very small allowance which was at the discretion of the brothers. They were disgusted at the injustice of this. Anna Parnell was a painter who had studied in Paris and England and Fanny Parnell was a poet.

The rift between Parnell & his sister Anna over the Ladies Land League was caused when Parnell refused to pay off a sizeable overdraft incured by ladies and which they had raised funds for and deposited with the Land League.

He would not pay over the money they raised unless they disolved the Ladies Land League.

Anna Parnell was heart broken

The men once again took over the running of the Land League.
They made it impossible for the women to continue to work alongside them. The money that the women had collected was now withheld from them. They continued on by getting an overdraft from the bank but when this reached £5,000 the bank demanded payment. They assumed the men would now hand over the money that they had raised.
But Parnell refused to pay the bank unless the women agreed to dissolve the Ladies Land League. The women tried to continue with their work under very difficult conditions and held out for a few more months until September, but in the end they had to give in. Anna Parnell was heart broken.

Anna boycotted Charles for the rest of his life.

'

Anna Parnell never spoke to her brother Charles Stuart Parnell again.

While all this was going on Anna Parnell had to deal with the sudden death of her sister Fanny, who died on 20th July of a heart attack. By this stage she was completely worn out and could not accept the betrayal of her own brother. Charles Stuart Panell had broken his sister's heart and she was never to forgive him. She never spoke to him again.
If she met him by accident she would ignore him completely.
On 6 October 1891, Charles Stuart Parnell died at Brighton. He was only forty-five years of age. Anna went to live in England and started painting again. She kept in touch with the political happenings in Ireland, but was never to live there again. Anna Parnell drowned while swimming in the sea in September 1911.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Charles-Stuart-Parnell

CDfm · 14-12-2010 1:13am

Delia , Charles & John's mother was not at the funeral but in the USA .

Did Charles have another daughter ?

Is it possible to check

showArticleImage?image=images%2Fpages%2Fdtc.97.tif.gif&doi=10.2307%2F30008261

showArticleImage?image=images%2Fpages%2Fdtc.97.tif.gif&doi=10.2307%2F30008261

http://www.jstor.org/pss/30008261

CDfm · 14-12-2010 1:43am

He does not seem to have made any real friends according to this source and I cant see any real references to friendships anywhere else

It is no doubt true that Parnell looked even on the men of his own party rather as counters in the political game he had sat down to play than as friends and confidants. In response to a plea from Mrs. O'Shea that "after all they were human beings" he would answer characteristically, "In politics, as in war, there are no men, only weapons."[6] When his will was thwarted he would fling out of the party even a man who had been useful to him in former days, saying, "While I am leader they are my tools, or they go."[7] A man so autocratic made few personal friends and had, among his party, no confidants. He held himself aloof, and his very aloofness surrounded him with that attraction which an impenetrable mystery always provokes. But the world was not wrong in believing that there were fires smouldering beneath the impassive exterior, and that he was a man of strong feeling. Parnell was in truth a man of two passions, which absorbed, controlled, and dominated his life. For the attainment of both of these aims he was ready to employ all means, lawful and unlawful; to go through any suffering; and to sacrifice ruthlessly both himself and others.
http://www.libraryireland.com/HullHistory/Parnell1.php

Now this is not a bad thing having singlemindedness in a leader and Richard Nixon had great powers and was highly intelligent

Gladstone rated him highly and if you look at his methods he put together a very cohesive political party -but he had a dangerous streak to him -and he exploited the Liberals need of him.

I never thought that Parnell was as ruthless & tough as he actually was. Don't forget he was able to straddle between the Fenians and Parlimentary politics -so why not be able to handle that in his personal life too.

CDfm · 14-12-2010 2:57am

Did he make adequete provision for his wife and kids

Yes he did.

Charles Stewart Parnell left an estate of £11,774, 7s and 3d – the equivalent of €1.33 million today when he died at the age of 45 in 1891. His wife of six months, Katherine Parnell, better known as Kitty O’Shea, administered his estate.

Well compared to Bram

Bram Stoker, who authored Dracula, left £5,269 (equivalent to €550,000 today) when he died at St George’s Square, London, in 1912.

So he did when you consider he had not worked for years and he had not hung on to the £40,000 raised for him.

The proposed settlement of £20,000 to Willie by Katie was also worth £ 2 1/2 million. Like what Scary Spice paid her ex husband.

http://www.paddybloggit.com/last-will-and-testament/

He also managed to put the IPPP on a better footing with support and financial from Cecil Rhodes

Rhodes' only major impact on domestic politics within the United Kingdom was his support of the Irish nationalist party, led by Charles Stewart Parnell (1846-1891). He contributed a great deal of money to the Irish nationalists,[3] although Rhodes made his support for the Irish nationalists conditional upon an autonomous Ireland still being represented in the British Parliament.[4] Rhodes was such a strong supporter of Parnell that even after the Liberals and the Irish nationalists had disowned Parnell because of his adultery with the wife of another Irish nationalist, Rhodes continued to support him.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Cecil_Rhodes#Influence

CDfm · 14-12-2010 3:25am

So we have looked at Parnells personal life but at this time you had him trying to hold the Irish Party together and fight elections.

To get up with the politics side this post puts it in context.

His own estimate was that it would take him 5 years to recover to his pre-divorce power.

There is a very good e-book here and if you flick thru a few chapters you get a real feel for what was going on and the personalities involved

http://books.google.ie/books?id=VPKEBJQwVHcC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=gladstone%27s+opinion+on+parnell&source=bl&ots=EJ0kU7gB-w&sig=NdY9rIH7vscSRZXOPlFy_aD_hnk&hl=en&ei=idIGTfrECcKKhQe-r9XuBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwATge#v=onepage&q=gladstone%27s%20opinion%20on%20parnell&f=false

Its the Parnell Split by Frank Calanan and if you dip into from around page 25 on for 5 or 10 pages its very good, almost Churchilian - "I will fight"

jonniebgood1 · 14-12-2010 11:55pm

In terms of the politics, he was partially a victim of his own success. Having put home rule on the agenda and convincing Gladstone to take it as a valid policy, he then became less relevent to the issue than he had previously been. He didnt seem to understand this when he refused to step down, even temporarily as had been suggested (ala Peter Robinson in NI) http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/parnell2.htm .

CDfm · 15-12-2010 1:36am

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

IHe didnt seem to understand this when he refused to step down, even temporarily as had been suggested (ala Peter Robinson in NI) .

I think he was right as it happened and pre-Parnell the Irish Party made little headway. Knowing more about him makes me appreciate him a lot more.

He felt he couldn't go back .

However, we are very in the dark about how Willie lived post-divorce and did he recieve a settlement.

Mr Kitty O'Shea - Captain Willie O'Shea - the Most Vilified Man in Ireland - Why ??

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