Yet another mass shooting

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-11-2018 10:28pm #1

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

12 dead, seems it was a marine.

With these being so ubiquitous these days, you wonder why people even do it. I know you have to be out of your mind but I can't imagine what state you have to get into, to want to take a dozen or more other people with you.

Atlantic Dawn · 08-11-2018 10:29pm

There was only another this morning, a marine did that too, jaysus.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-11-2018 10:31pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There was only another this morning, a marine did that too, jaysus.

Really, jesus christ.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-11-2018 10:33pm

Is this not the one last night?

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-11-2018 10:34pm

Lochlan Hissing Pentagon wrote: »

Is this not the one last night?

You're right it was last night, my bad - only just got the alert now.

mammajamma · 08-11-2018 10:37pm

Its just the disintegration of the United States picking up pace. Next year they will break the records for this year, and so on.

They're going down unless something drastic changes within their society.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-11-2018 10:38pm

In 2016 there was only a five day stretch without somesort of mass shooting. I'm not even sure we hear about the majority of them.

wexie · 08-11-2018 10:40pm

Was there a thread on this before now (like last night perhaps?)

Imagine how bad things have gotten if AH collectively has gotten desensitized to these things.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-11-2018 10:41pm

Couldn't see one, please lock this one if so.

wexie · 08-11-2018 10:43pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Couldn't see one, please lock this one if so.

I didn't see one, which is what I meant, imagine that the time would come where there's a mass shooting and no thread on AH....
It's possible of course we both missed it.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 08-11-2018 10:44pm

Merica

SimonTemplar · 08-11-2018 10:46pm

On an individual level of the victims and their families, it is terrible. There is a heartbreaking video on social media of a 50 something father who broke down in tears because he felt guilty about not doing more to stop the shooter because he wanted to save his son instead.

On a national level though, it is hard to sympathize. My understanding is that a majority of Americans want greater gun control yet they voted republicans back into the senate who will do nothing but dance to the NRA's tune.

They voted for a president who they knew would do nothing about gun control despite an alternative candidate who promised to address the issue.

So there will be the typical CTRL+C, CTRL+V from the last mass shooting. They'll be thoughts and prayers, democrats will demand action, republicans will say it is not the time and the 2nd amendment must be protected, the news cycle will move on but there will be another group of families forever changed and scarred, and then repeat, and repeat and repeat.

Plumbthedepths · 08-11-2018 10:46pm

As always, thoughts and prayers.

Canis Lupus · 08-11-2018 10:50pm

Sad but that's the US now.

fritzelly · 08-11-2018 10:50pm

This is why everyone in the US should be armed when going out so people like this can be taken out immediately after they kill the first person even before if they are showing signs of mental illness
I mean every week there is another mass shooting so chances are you would be in a position to have to do this.
Hell not even just going out, students, teachers, going shopping, babies - should all be armed. The only way to stop this kind of thing happening.

Kermit.de.frog · 08-11-2018 10:53pm

Thoughts and Prayers.

fryup · 08-11-2018 10:55pm

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Sad but that's the US now.

now?? been like that for years

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-11-2018 10:55pm

wexie wrote: »

Was there a thread on this before now (like last night perhaps?)

Imagine how bad things have gotten if AH collectively has gotten desensitized to these things.

It's inevitable that we will become desensitised to these shootings. The only reason we hear of them are the strong links here to US media.

We don't seem to run threads on the 46 murders each day in South Africa. The bulk of the 15000 murders using guns in the USA each year largely go unreported.

It takes the spectacular event to be newsworthy, and the definition of spectacular is tightening every day.

SimonTemplar · 08-11-2018 11:17pm

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

Agricola · 08-11-2018 11:21pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

On an individual level of the victims and their families, it is terrible. There is a heartbreaking video on social media of a 50 something father who broke down in tears because he felt guilty about not doing more to stop the shooter because he wanted to save his son instead.

On a national level though, it is hard to sympathize. My understanding is that a majority of Americans want greater gun control yet they voted republicans back into the senate who will do nothing but dance to the NRA's tune.

They voted for a president who they knew would do nothing about gun control despite an alternative candidate who promised to address the issue.

So there will be the typical CTRL+C, CTRL+V from the last mass shooting. They'll be thoughts and prayers, democrats will demand action, republicans will say it is not the time and the 2nd amendment must be protected, the news cycle will move on but there will be another group of families forever changed and scarred, and then repeat, and repeat and repeat.

It isnt a level playing field with regards voting though. Republicans have made an art of choosing their voters as opposed to the voters choosing them. Saw a tweet yesterday which said the Republicans had a 7% increase in 2010 and took 66 extra seats as a result. This week, the Democrats had a 9.5% increase and took just 33 extra seats. The system is also purposely skewed to give as much and often more voting power to smaller populated rural states which traditionally have always been pro Republican and staunchly pro gun.

As for the president, he got three million less votes than his gun reform opponent, but thanks to a rigged system, now sits in the Oval office.
It's hard to blame the voter when they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

Mam of 4 · 08-11-2018 11:24pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

Ah lordie , this is all becoming too commonplace . Shootings after shootings in various situations .
It honestly makes me sad

Plumbthedepths · 08-11-2018 11:25pm

Watching the news just now. This is the 307th mass shooting in America this year. No words.

fritzelly · 08-11-2018 11:25pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

That is pretty much a weekly event (most accidental).
When its so ingrained into your psyche that having loaded guns is the norm sure why the hell would you have them locked up

Noveight · 08-11-2018 11:26pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

That reads like a overzealous piece of fiction. Unbelievable.

ToddyDoody · 08-11-2018 11:31pm

I was reading in a book today that in the US they have this really critical superego or, if you will, critical inner voice that bugs them terribly surrounding things like being unpopular and that it drives them to the point of madness whereby they conduct revenge shootings like this on the places like high schools where they were outsiders.

SimonTemplar · 08-11-2018 11:34pm

Agricola wrote: »

It isnt a level playing field with regards voting though. Republicans have made an art of choosing their voters as opposed to the voters choosing them. Saw a tweet yesterday which said the Republicans had a 7% increase in 2010 and took 66 extra seats as a result. This week, the Democrats had a 9.5% increase and took just 33 extra seats. The system is also purposely skewed to give as much and often more voting power to smaller populated rural states which traditionally have always been pro Republican and staunchly pro gun.

As for the president, he got three million less votes than his gun reform opponent, but thanks to a rigged system, now sits in the Oval office.
It's hard to blame the voter when they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.

That being said, voting democrats into power is not impossible and those who voted for republicans (especially in the swing states) did so knowing that gun control laws won't change, whether this was a conscious decision in their choice of candidate, or just apathy.

Gwynplaine · 08-11-2018 11:37pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Thoughts and Prayers.

As it has happened so many times now, it's clear that this doesn't work.

Cookie_Monster · 08-11-2018 11:45pm

Gwynplaine wrote: »

As it has happened so many times now, it's clear that this doesn't work.

i think it was pretty clear after the first time that BS didn't work, never mind the xxxth time

joe40 · 09-11-2018 12:45am

I know people who expressed reservations about visiting European cities last year for fear of terrorist attacks.
But wouldn't think twice about visiting America.
Perception is a powerful thing

sdanseo · 09-11-2018 12:48am

Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

My thoughts regarding how to tackle the gun control issue as quite elequently inferred by CJ Cregg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKdSGSZfbnA

Manic Moran · 09-11-2018 3:06am

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.
.

As opposed to what, a parliamentary system like the UK where occasionally the party which receives fewer votes ends up with the Prime Minister? There is a reason why Clement Attlee was not PM after the 1955 election, despite his Labor Party receiving more votes than the Tories.

Something missing from the above discussion is that though most of us would like improved gun control there is a wide swathe as to just how far that gun control should go. My supporting universal background checks does not mean I would support Clinton’s stance on the subject.

Cookie_Monster · 09-11-2018 3:21am

Manic Moran wrote: »

As opposed to what, a parliamentary system like the UK where occasionally the party which receives fewer votes ends up with the Prime Minister?.

As opposed to a functional system like any number of other 1st world countries; Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Aus, NZ, Holland, Italy, Switzerland etc etc etc. No need to specifically pick the only other one that is also very broken.

Guy:Incognito · 09-11-2018 3:37am

fritzelly wrote: »

That is pretty much a weekly event (most accidental).
When its so ingrained into your psyche that having loaded guns is the norm sure why the hell would you have them locked up

Ingrained how? Even the nra on their site say to keep guns unloaded and secured etc.

As with anything you will always have stupid and irresponsible people that will leave dangerous things lying around. No matter how much you tell them not to.

Checkmate19 · 09-11-2018 3:56am

This just will continue. To toxic for either party to tackle it. NRA have the politicians in their pockets. I don't think it matter's which party is in gun control won't happen. The minute you even consider making even slight changes the nra are all over it. After Sandy Hook there was some sort of call for banning or certain type of guns. However i think most of this went by the way side. I think there could be a mass shooting every day in the us and nothing would happen. Very sad for the victims etc. but i won't be long till the next mass shooting.

Manic Moran · 09-11-2018 4:28am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As opposed to a functional system like any number of other 1st world countries; Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Aus, NZ, Holland, Italy, Switzerland etc etc etc. No need to specifically pick the only other one that is also very broken.

It is theoretically possible for such a result to happen in Ireland, though I presume it has not happened yet. It is a feature inherent with any system which elects its government by regional representation, be they States or constituencies. After all, there is nothing which says that more people have to vote for whoever ends up becoming the Taoiseach, or that the Taoiseach's party must have received the most votes. They just need to win more constituencies.

Peregrinus · 09-11-2018 4:50am

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is theoretically possible for such a result to happen in Ireland, though I presume it has not happened yet. It is a feature inherent with any system which elects its government by regional representation, be they States or constituencies. After all, there is nothing which says that more people have to vote for whoever ends up becoming the Taoiseach, or that the Taoiseach's party must have received the most votes. They just need to win more constituencies.

Yes, but in a proportional system that weight votes equally it's very difficult to win more constituencies without winning more of the vote.

It used to happen fairly regularly that Fianna Fail would end up with more than 50% of the seats on less than 50% of the vote. This was the outcome, basically, of gerrymandering - over-representation of rural voters, and careful decisions about where to put three-seat constituencies, and where to put four-seat constituencies.

Over-representation of rural voters was ruled to be unconstitutional in the 1960s, and in the late 1970s the business of drawing up constituencies was taken out of the hands of ministers and given to an independent commission, since when no majority government has ever taken power without securing a majority of the vote. So, yeah, this technology exists.

It's a bit of a side-issue in this thread, however. The US has the electoral college for a reason. By and large, it has served the country well - it is an enduring and successful democracy. While you could marshal interesting arguments for and against retaining the system, I seriously doubt that arguments about the implications for gun control would carry much weight one way or the other. Americans don't have the gun control laws they do, and the attitudes to and beliefs about guns that they have, because of the electoral system, and changing the electoral system would not change much in this regard.

pleas advice · 09-11-2018 5:30am

just an aside, but i always wondered why all the electoral votes go to to the winner in each state, even if its 50.1 to 49.9?
Why aren't split electoral votes more common? (although, if you can't make the 55 votes in California count, would you have a better chance with 34 (62%) of them..?)

https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/

Manic Moran · 09-11-2018 6:00am

pleas advice wrote: »

just an aside, but i always wondered why all the electoral votes go to to the winner in each state, even if its 50.1 to 49.9?
Why aren't split electoral votes more common? (although, if you can't make the 55 votes in California count, would you have a better chance with 34 (62%) of them..?)

https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/

The reason is partially institutional inertia, and partially partisan politics.

Way back in the day, when a State decided on something, the State decided it. Imagine the crew of a ship voting which way to sail. They couldn’t split the ship, so everyone went that way whether they liked it or not. The nation was created with “the United States” being a plural, not the singular as we use it today, and the idea of a State providing a split decision was a bit outside the point. That’s not to say that the Maine/Nebraska method was unheard of, Massachusetts used it for a few elections in the early 19th Century.

These days, there is no incentive for it, really. Can you imagine the leadership in California (Heavily Democrat), in a State which is reliably Democrat, waking up one day and saying “in the interests of fairness, we are going to split out State votes, so instead of our providing 55 EC votes to our Democratic candidate for a president, we’ll only give 30 to them, and let the Republicans take the other 25”? No way it’s going to happen, they’d be ostracized from the Democratic Party. (And, obviously, the reverse is true for the reliably Republican States).

What tripped the trigger for Maine was a surprisingly hard-fought election in 1968 between three candidates, and Maine’s fractured vote all went to Nixon. After that, Maine decided to split.

That said, from 1972 to today, the two States which allow split votes have each split only once each. Maine in 2016 with a vote for Trump, and Obama got a Nebraska one in 2008. Since both States work on the basis of “congressional districts plus bonus”, it’s actually quite possible for the “loser”of the State’s popular vote to win the majority of the EC votes, but certainly not easily, it’s not simply a proportionate equivalency.

Graces7 · 09-11-2018 7:55am

fritzelly wrote: »

This is why everyone in the US should be armed when going out so people like this can be taken out immediately after they kill the first person even before if they are showing signs of mental illness
I mean every week there is another mass shooting so chances are you would be in a position to have to do this.
Hell not even just going out, students, teachers, going shopping, babies - should all be armed. The only way to stop this kind of thing happening.

wrong. that is why things are as they are. everyone is armed already. and the attackers know that.

Will I Am Not · 09-11-2018 8:28am

Graces7 wrote: »

wrong. that is why things are as they are. everyone is armed already. and the attackers know that.

I think... just maybe... there was a bit of sarcasm in there.

murpho999 · 09-11-2018 10:07am

sdanseo wrote: »

Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

My thoughts regarding how to tackle the gun control issue as quite elequently inferred by CJ Cregg:

Sorry but how is being 30km away from a place in a completely different time a scary thought?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 09-11-2018 10:11am

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.

That being said, voting democrats into power is not impossible and those who voted for republicans (especially in the swing states) did so knowing that gun control laws won't change, whether this was a conscious decision in their choice of candidate, or just apathy.

The way to change the electoral college has the same limitations as the electoral college itself. A constitutional change needs the majority of States to agree.

RocketRaccoon · 09-11-2018 10:16am

sdanseo wrote: »

Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

I was in New York at the world trade centre last year, I could have died.

Theboinkmaster · 09-11-2018 10:48am

SimonTemplar wrote: »

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

That is so sad, but how retarded are people that don't keep guns in a safe.....

Hector Savage · 09-11-2018 10:51am

mammajamma wrote: »

Its just the disintegration of the United States picking up pace. Next year they will break the records for this year, and so on.

They're going down unless something drastic changes within their society.

Someone mentioned somewhere that empires typically last about 200 years ,
It's interesting - seems the US as a superpower and society is on it's way out.

Hector Savage · 09-11-2018 10:59am

SimonTemplar wrote: »

By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

Jesus!

SexBobomb · 09-11-2018 11:15am

Hector Savage wrote: »

Someone mentioned somewhere that empires typically last about 200 years ,
It's interesting - seems the US as a superpower and society is on it's way out.

I think its on the verge of a massive change over the next 20 years when issues like these and civil unrest reach a breaking point. America is too big to fail, its too involved all over the world.

BattleCorp · 09-11-2018 4:58pm

Checkmate19 wrote: »

This just will continue. To toxic for either party to tackle it. NRA have the politicians in their pockets. I don't think it matter's which party is in gun control won't happen. The minute you even consider making even slight changes the nra are all over it. After Sandy Hook there was some sort of call for banning or certain type of guns. However i think most of this went by the way side. I think there could be a mass shooting every day in the us and nothing would happen. Very sad for the victims etc. but i won't be long till the next mass shooting.

People give the NRA far too much credit. They don't have half as much power as people think.

If the NRA were disbanded, that doesn't mean that Americans would give up their guns. Guns are a big part of their culture.

The majority of Americans don't want the 2nd Amendment removed.

09-11-2018 5:17pm

Just read a survivor of Vegas died in it. Reminds me of a good friend I cut ties with because he defended the exec who said she had no sympathy for victims in Vegas cause they were probably Republican.

orourkeda1977 · 09-11-2018 5:21pm

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Merica

F*ck Yeahhhhhhhhhhh

valoren · 09-11-2018 5:29pm

Sandy Hook was the event horizon for gun control in America.
If the murders of 20 six and seven year old children didn't prompt collective action then there will never be collective action.

Mass shootings are simply a fact of life in the US now.

Yet another mass shooting

Comments